A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[Luxy312]

 

Yes this is one of the primary reasons why the Bills sucked on offense during the first half.

 

 

I disagree with your number 4 statement. The reason he has so many big plays open up for him is because he is able to hold the ball so long without getting sacked. I am totally fine with him holding the ball for 4 or 5 seconds as long as he is not getting sacked. The Bills will have a lot more big plays if he continues doing that then they would if he is trying to get rid of the ball much faster.

 

If he didn't have the natural skill to avoid the pass rush, then yes, I would want him to get rid of the ball quicker. Based on his skill set I say no. I am not worried one bit about how long he holds the ball. At least not as long as he is able to keep avoiding sacks. It is part of what makes him a more productive quarterback in my opinion.

 

I'll qualify this a bit Dave. He's holding onto the ball too long and then NOT making the throws he needs to make. You can't hold the ball for 4 seconds on 3rd and 10 and then throw an 8 yard pass. 3rd and 3 and throw it 2 yards. 3rd and 11 and dump it off to Karlos 3 yards in front of the LOS. 3rd and 6 and just a 4 yarder to Hogan. I'm fine with him holding the ball longer as well, with the big qualifier that he's taking shots down the field. That just wasn't the case yesterday at all.

[Big C]

Ugh, what a crap game to watch.

• Gilmore was totally being pick on in the first quarter. I know he had a better 2nd half, but that first half was brutal. Shutdown corner? Not yet.

Let's go Buffalo!

 

What is your definition of brutal? There is no such thing as a "shutdown corner" in today's NFL. QBs and receivers will always get some yards, points, whatever. I look at Eli's stat line, take away that ridiculous Jennings TD and the guy threw for 161 yards and 2 TDs. That's not spectacular. I saw Gilmore playing tight coverage, keeping almost everything in front of him, and tackle very well. He allowed two of six targets to OBJ for eight yards, and all told allowed 49 yards and one TD, plus one INT.

 

If you mean he was picked on in that balls were thrown in his direction, well that's nothing new. Through the first three games Darby and Gilmore were the #1 and #3 most targeted corners in the NFL and they have both performed admirably.

[PO16FFS]

 

What is your definition of brutal? There is no such thing as a "shutdown corner" in today's NFL. QBs and receivers will always get some yards, points, whatever. I look at Eli's stat line, take away that ridiculous Jennings TD and the guy threw for 161 yards and 2 TDs. That's not spectacular. I saw Gilmore playing tight coverage, keeping almost everything in front of him, and tackle very well. He allowed two of six targets to OBJ for eight yards, and all told allowed 49 yards and one TD, plus one INT.

 

If you mean he was picked on in that balls were thrown in his direction, well that's nothing new. Through the first three games Darby and Gilmore were the #1 and #3 most targeted corners in the NFL and they have both performed admirably.

Darby has performed admirably. Still not sure what most games people are looking at.

[Big C]

Darby has performed admirably. Still not sure what most games people are looking at.

 

Please tell me what you're seeing that I am not.

[Gordio]

 

Sadly I have to agree, there were 2 types of penalties which killed the Bills: the phantom, borderline calls which cost us 2 TDs (hold on Urbik, "chop block" on Richie), and the self-induced penalties after the play. The former were very concerning as they directly cost us points. I do wonder about the enforcement of certain penalties across league, as penalties overall are way up this year. But it does appear at least subliminally that the crews are now out for the Bills b/c of the loudmouth rep they have earned. If Coughlin coached his team to bait the Bills, he was on to something.

 

I wonder what the tempo and outcome of the 1st half would have been if they had come out with play action passing like against Miami. Giants have the worst pass d in the NFL, and Roman tried to get cute. Doesn't make sense.

 

 

Agreed I didn't get the playcalling in the first half. Made no sense.

[K-9]

Either that or he played bad technique. Maybe Rambo was the one fuggin up the play given that he was slanted to the other half of the field. What bothers me is that he should play the man to direct him outside and use the sideline as an extra defender, then trust your ability.

 

It was zone coverage and Gilmore had outside leverage; nothing wrong with the technique given that particular call by Rex or Thurman. Rambo had responsibility once Gilmore passed his man to that zone area and he was late. I would blame the coaches for electing to play it that way more than Gilmore. I also have to credit Manning for making a nice play, too.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[stevewin]

Was at the game, a few things that stood out

 

- The Giants special teams were so far superior to our it wasn't even funny. Just their guys beating our guys asses consistently

 

- With all the "fire" our players allegedly have (errr personal foul, personal foul, personal foul, personal foul) - the Giants were far more pumped (in a good way) the whole game

 

- The Bills couldn't have done a better job taking the crowd out of the game with that 1st half performance. I go to one game a year, my brother and I fly in to take my Dad for his bday with our sons - we're all hyped for months and yesterday the friggin Bills have us sitting there at times almost bored out of our minds. WTF. That's actually a hard thing to do AT A FRIGGIN FOOTBALL GAME. BTW happy 81st Dad - the friggin Bills put a damper on another one this year

 

- I can't figure out what the deal is with the DL. Zone blitzes aside, there were times when guys just seemed to be standing up and half-heartedly rushing - not sure if they were purposely just trying to stay home for screens or misdirection, but it sure didn't look like as a unit they had blood lust to kill a QB. And don't give me this crap about if the QB gets rid of it fast the DLine can't matter. BS. You can still at least present a semblance of pressure to at least make the QB slightly uncomfortable

 

- Someone needs to line up Billy the Buffalo and the person in charge of the sound for the stadium and EXECUTE THEM. It's not just the beyond ridiculous train horn, its also all the other crap they feel the need to obnoxiously blare EVERY SECOND that it is not illegal to do so. It comes off as completely bush league. Like the fans can't generate their own noise and excitement. All it does is completely ruin the great atmosphere that organic fan cheering and excitement make. Sometimes the best parts of the games are the spaces in between when you can just take in the atmosphere of the crowd and the stadium - even (especially) if it isn't artificially amped up to 11. So embarrassing.

[Fixxxer]

It was zone coverage and Gilmore had outside leverage; nothing wrong with the technique given that particular call by Rex or Thurman. Rambo had responsibility once Gilmore passed his man to that zone area and he was late. I would blame the coaches for electing to play it that way more than Gilmore. I also have to credit Manning for making a nice play, too.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Thanks for correction K-9. So, Rambo was in bad position or reacted late to the play.

[K-9]

Was at the game, a few things that stood out

 

- The Giants special teams were so far superior to our it wasn't even funny. Just their guys beating our guys asses consistently

 

- With all the "fire" our players allegedly have (errr personal foul, personal foul, personal foul, personal foul) - the Giants were far more pumped (in a good way) the whole game

 

- The Bills couldn't have done a better job taking the crowd out of the game with that 1st half performance. I go to one game a year, my brother and I fly in to take my Dad for his bday with our sons - we're all hyped for months and yesterday the friggin Bills have us sitting there at times almost bored out of our minds. WTF. That's actually a hard thing to do AT A FRIGGIN FOOTBALL GAME. BTW happy 81st Dad - the friggin Bills put a damper on another one this year

 

- I can't figure out what the deal is with the DL. Zone blitzes aside, there were times when guys just seemed to be standing up and half-heartedly rushing - not sure if they were purposely just trying to stay home for screens or misdirection, but it sure didn't look like as a unit they had blood lust to kill a QB. And don't give me this crap about if the QB gets rid of it fast the DLine can't matter. BS. You can still at least present a semblance of pressure to at least make the QB slightly uncomfortable

 

- Someone needs to line up Billy the Buffalo and the person in charge of the sound for the stadium and EXECUTE THEM. It's not just the beyond ridiculous train horn, its also all the other crap they feel the need to obnoxiously blare EVERY SECOND that it is not illegal to do so. It comes off as completely bush league. Like the fans can't generate their own noise and excitement. All it does is completely ruin the great atmosphere that organic fan cheering and excitement make. Sometimes the best parts of the games are the spaces in between when you can just take in the atmosphere of the crowd and the stadium - even (especially) if it isn't artificially amped up to 11. So embarrassing.

First of all, happy birthday to your dad. What a great family tradition you and your brother have established. Hope you have many more, regardless of the Bills' efforts to put a damper on things.

 

Agree entirely about the train horn, non-stop blaring music, etc. between plays. They have over thought this idea. It is absurd and I think it ruins the experience, especially for those trying to discuss the game between plays. Like the TV production that seeks to make these games all about drama and not about a game of strategies and tactics. Show me a friggin' sideline view of a team trying to get a sub package in or a replay, not the look of angst on a coach's face.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Thanks for correction K-9. So, Rambo was in bad position or reacted late to the play.

 

We have to see the all 22 for a better look, but yeah, Rambo seemed hesitant. He may have been confused by the RB (I believe) who was clearing the zone and picked up by Bradham.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Buffalo_Lobsters]

3) I think that I might be the biggest fan of Mario Williams on this board. That said, he provided zero pass rush today and I am not at all pleased.

 

9) 17 penalties? No pass rush despite superior talent on defense? I am not there yet, but I am approaching the point of turning my back on Rex Ryan.

 

13) Marcel was NOT impressive today. For that matter neither was Hughes. Could they be weighed down by the 175 million dollars or so in their pockets? I hope not but I am willing to, at this point, blame it on the utterly stupid defensive scheme, and I point the blame right at Rex.

 

I don't understand how the Defense is worse than last year. The Bills have sunk a lot of $$$ into players that are invisible. I almost forgot that Mario was playing. Why pay big money for a D-line if its this easy to negate the pass rush?

The dumb penalties are maddening. Chop blocks, lining up over the center on a kick, stupid personal fouls.

When they called back the Clay TD in the 4th Quarter I was so mad I think I invented some new curse words.

[Observer]

1 td

 

No credit for the 40 yard pinpoint pass and amazing run, both called back for inconsequential penalties?

 

If you're "1 TD" is a criticism of Taylor, it's misguided. Who is the moron who called a screen on 4th and goal, and not 4 straight rollouts? Who stuck with an inept running game long after it was obvious that the running game was going nowhere?

[Observer]

 

It happened three times in one half, inexcusable.

 

Yup. All to the same guy. He has to run the right route.

 

If the WR runs an out when the call is for an in, the QB is not at fault when the ball misses.

 

How are you not getting this?

[Fixxxer]

 

Yup. All to the same guy. He has to run the right route.

 

If the WR runs an out when the call is for an in, the QB is not at fault when the ball misses.

 

How are you not getting this?

 

sorry, you're right, TT is a golden god, he can't do no wrong. The int wasn't his fault, and the reason for his bad half of football was too much sun his eyes.

 

Go Bills!!!

[Prickly Pete]

 

It happened three times in one half, inexcusable.

 

It seems like something about throws short of the 1st down marker needs to be cleared up.

 

The reason there are so many throws in that area, is because that is what the defense allows. They set up right around the marker, so you have 2 choices, throw over them (takes more time, lower percentage throw, and often leads to INT's/tips), or throw it short and run for the 1st. The play design (having other receivers in position to block) is important, the ball placement (hitting the guy in stride, so he can square his shoulders upfield), and the receiver's running ability, are the keys.

 

I don't know which of these were the problems for each of the Bills plays (I recall the receivers not turning upfield, but instead running across the field, and some good defending), but I do know the reason why it is common THROUGHOUT the league to throw short of the marker.

 

To just blame the QB is ridiculous.

 

That said, I think Tyrod needs to improve the kind of timing throws that are being used to nullify the Bills D-line. I don't see many of those kind of plays.

Edited October 5, 2015 by HoF Watkins

[BuffaninATL]

I hate to say this, but it appears to me that Rex's d scheme neuters the front 4 by forcing the system onto to players, as opposed to leveraging the skills of the existing players. I agree with Stevewin; I have the same observation about the d line looking like they are standing up & not ready to get after the QB. It is very noticeable to me. And Kyle Williams @ DE ?

 

So how did the Giants OL do it? one said "they just watched what the Patriots did". Note to Rex and staff: this is a copycat league.

 

By a similar token, Tyrod appeared neutered by Roman's game plan in the 1st half.

[No Cease Fires]

I hate to say this, but it appears to me that Rex's d scheme neuters the front 4 by forcing the system onto to players, as opposed to leveraging the skills of the existing players. I agree with Stevewin; I have the same observation about the d line looking like they are standing up & not ready to get after the QB. It is very noticeable to me. And Kyle Williams @ DE ?

 

So how did the Giants OL do it? one said "they just watched what the Patriots did". Note to Rex and staff: this is a copycat league.

 

By a similar token, Tyrod appeared neutered by Roman's game plan in the 1st half.

 

D-line was fine. Giants passing game was mediocre to say the least. Discipline and penalties were the difference in this game (and tackling - Bradham!!).

 

D-line was fine. Giants passing game was mediocre to say the least. Discipline and penalties were the difference in this game (and tackling - Bradham!!).

Edited October 5, 2015 by No Cease Fires

[thebandit27]

First of all, happy birthday to your dad. What a great family tradition you and your brother have established. Hope you have many more, regardless of the Bills' efforts to put a damper on things.

 

Agree entirely about the train horn, non-stop blaring music, etc. between plays. They have over thought this idea. It is absurd and I think it ruins the experience, especially for those trying to discuss the game between plays. Like the TV production that seeks to make these games all about drama and not about a game of strategies and tactics. Show me a friggin' sideline view of a team trying to get a sub package in or a replay, not the look of angst on a coach's face.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

We have to see the all 22 for a better look, but yeah, Rambo seemed hesitant. He may have been confused by the RB (I believe) who was clearing the zone and picked up by Bradham.

 

GO BILLS!!!

You're correct on the 2nd TD

 

The CBs have been the best unit on the team through 4 weeks, and it isn't close IMO.

[Kelly the Dog]

Please explain how the two killer penalties, the arguable hold on Urbik or the phantom chop block by Incognito be in any way traced back to Rex and the team undisciplined.

[BuffaninATL]

 

D-line was fine. Giants passing game was mediocre to say the least. Discipline and penalties were the difference in this game (and tackling - Bradham!!).

 

really? did the d-line have any sacks or any discernible pressure on Manning? his jersey was clean, my friend.

[Big C]

 

really? did the d-line have any sacks or any discernible pressure on Manning? his jersey was clean, my friend.

 

Getting the ball out quicker than Brady will neutralize the rush no matter how we're bringing it.

 

Still, Eli barely broke 200 yards passing, that includes the 51 yard TD that Bradham should have stopped for no gain. The Giants were 3/15 on third down. The defense mostly did their job.

 

I'm as frustrated with the pass rush as anyone, and I still think with the right scheme we can get pressure on the QB quick enough to mess up his flow, but the lack of sacks doesn't tell all in this particular case.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Big C

[stevewin]

 

Getting the ball out quicker than Brady will neutralize the rush no matter how we're bringing it.

 

Still, Eli barely broke 200 yards passing, that includes the 51 yard TD that Bradham should have stopped for no gain. The Giants were 3/15 on third down. The defense mostly did their job.

 

I'm as frustrated with the pass rush as anyone, and I still think with the right scheme we can get pressure on the QB quick enough to mess up his flow, but the lack of sacks doesn't tell all in this particular case.

It's not just sacks - it's pressure. You can pressure a QB without sacking him - make him uncomfortable, get in his face, make him move a bit, make him make mistakes. And yes you can do this in 2.5 seconds. There are games we are seeing none of that - just Brady and Eli standing there making throws, yes quick throws, but throws with absolutely no duress or pressure. The Dline/scheme should be able to get enough penetration/pressure to cause SOME semblance of discomfort for a QB SOMETIMES - even if they are getting it out quick.

[KOKBILLS]

 

4 - Tyrod is waiting too long to either throw the ball or take off running. This has been the case since the Patriots game. To paraphrase from The Matrix, stop trying to do it and just do it.

 

 

I think this is an important point...One thing TT has to establish early in games is the fact that he will take off quickly...It will keep Defenses way more honest...All of a sudden it looks to me like he's only looking to run when he's gone through his progressions...And Defenses will take that any day...

 

I'm not saying he should run all the time...But something early in the game to establish the possibility is a big thing IMHO...

Edited October 5, 2015 by KOKBILLS

[Simon]

It is absurd and I think it ruins the experience, especially for those trying to discuss the game between plays. Like the TV production that seeks to make these games all about drama and not about a game of strategies and tactics. Show me a friggin' sideline view of a team trying to get a sub package in or a replay, not the look of angst on a coach's face.

 

 

Thank you for the comfort of company.

The nauseating overproduction and constant manufactured "drama" is turning NFL broadcasts into more reality TV than football. Several of my friends who have spent their lives involved in the game have already abandoned the NFL. If this league continues to go down the road of 3 1/2 broadcasts that focus primarily on network promos, fantasy football, and the drama of officiating conferences and replays, I'm sad to say that I will be joining them sooner rather than later.

[Big C]

It's not just sacks - it's pressure. You can pressure a QB without sacking him - make him uncomfortable, get in his face, make him move a bit, make him make mistakes. And yes you can do this in 2.5 seconds. There are games we are seeing none of that - just Brady and Eli standing there making throws, yes quick throws, but throws with absolutely no duress or pressure. The Dline/scheme should be able to get enough penetration/pressure to cause SOME semblance of discomfort for a QB SOMETIMES - even if they are getting it out quick.

 

I know. But 1.79 < 2.5. Eli wanted to play the Brady way but was far worse. The defense could have been a little better, but let's face it, the Giants offense was not great and somehow our offense was way worse. The offense should have scored at least two more TDs, probably more, and they failed. And the penalties did hurt us on offense, really in all 3 phases. There are so many different points to address in this game, but without going too far off this pressure topic, I'll just re-state that the D-Line and the lack of pressure was hardly the problem yesterday.

[Simon]

It's not just sacks - it's pressure. You can pressure a QB without sacking him - make him uncomfortable, get in his face, make him move a bit, make him make mistakes. And yes you can do this in 2.5 seconds.

Yeah, but you can't do it in 1.7 seconds.

At that point it becomes the responsibility of DB's and LB's to play with a lot more chop and the responsibility of the DLine to get hands in passing lanes

[GaryPinC]

Please explain how the two killer penalties, the arguable hold on Urbik or the phantom chop block by Incognito be in any way traced back to Rex and the team undisciplined.

Because all the personal fouls, whining, and histrionics by players like Hughes and Brown bias the referees to both teach us a lesson and attempt to maintain control of the game. Did Rex pull these guys out? I didn't see that. Did he punish them? No, he's proud of them. He sets that tone and players respond to it. Refs will crack down and call anything even close since Rex isn't taking control. Let's hope that changes this week.

[JohnC]

Please explain how the two killer penalties, the arguable hold on Urbik or the phantom chop block by Incognito be in any way traced back to Rex and the team undisciplined.

I agree with you that the Urbik call was marginal and the Incognito call made little sense. But the bad calls and the aggravating over-officiating are present in all games. The games are difficult to watch because of the way the games are being called. There is little continuity and flow to the game. All teams have to contend with the capriciousness of the calls.

 

Because of the flukishness of the officiating the difference between winning and losing often comes down to playing smart. The after the play penalties on Hughes and Preston Brown were very damaging. This was a closely contested game. Although we didn't play especially well, neither did they. It was a very winnable game. The difference was the more mature manner in which the Giants played compared to the immature manner in which the Bills played. That is a function of coaching.

 

It's not surprising that our entertaining and quoteable HC found a player appealing who cold cocked a qb in the Jets lockerroom and broke his jaw. That player is currently serving a suspension for his thugish behavior. He is the type of player that Rex wanted on his roster.

Edited October 5, 2015 by JohnC

[Observer]

 

sorry, you're right, TT is a golden god, he can't do no wrong. The int wasn't his fault, and the reason for his bad half of football was too much sun his eyes.

 

Go Bills!!!

 

You should post on PPP. You'd fit in over there.

[FireChan]

Please explain how the two killer penalties, the arguable hold on Urbik or the phantom chop block by Incognito be in any way traced back to Rex and the team undisciplined.

I'm 90% sure we don't even have a penalty problem. Look at the last 3 years.

[Observer]

Please explain how the two killer penalties, the arguable hold on Urbik or the phantom chop block by Incognito be in any way traced back to Rex and the team undisciplined.

 

When the coach sets a tone that causes the Bills to get a reputation for dumb play and the team plays dumb, refs look for things. If a ref is looking, they will throw yellow more than not.

 

In a perfect world, that's not true but refs are human.

 

Let's see Rex do more than the mouth breath stare when Hughes gets the second PF. 90% of the coaches in the league pull Hughes outand meet him at the sideline to give him a piece of their mind. Rex is a good guy and the players love him. What they don't do is respect his authority. He has to beg them to stop committing penalties. What kind of leadership is that?

 

Rex can call out Dan Carpenter by name but won't do the same to Bradham and Hughes. That's a bully mentality alright: Man enough to pick a fight with the little guy. Pv$$y.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Observer

[hondo in seattle]

A Grateful Dead reference? And it almost seems to be about football.

 

Anyway, I'm worried about Rex. Schwartz had this defense playing at a higher level and he wasn't doing anything exotic. Mostly we just lined up and balled. But we won our one-and-one battles and played smart. You don't need to out-scheme the other team when you can outplay them.

[Fixxxer]

 

You should post on PPP. You'd fit in over there.

 

You are the one that can't take objective criticsm. TT was bad in the first half and that is a fact. You don't want to see it, fine by me.