SWATeam Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Yea, but the 4+ years of professional coaching should be closing that gap pretty quickly now, no? Yes, I agree with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 And he will continue to be better than you think and get even better. He is one of the most underrated players I've known watching the Bills for 13 years. We have had lots of overrated players in that time, few underrated ones. Bills were 1-6 when Hogan & Chandler combined for 7+ catches. Only win was the Vikings and they are bad. Teams were fine with those guys catching the ball because they couldn't hurt them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Bills were 1-6 when Hogan & Chandler combined for 7+ catches. Only win was the Vikings and they are bad. Teams were fine with those guys catching the ball because they couldn't hurt them. You presumably think we'd have been better with Goodwin catching those balls? Hard to know though isn't it because if you happened to be at the fridge grabbing another beer it was possible to miss Goodwin's contribution to the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 You presumably think we'd have been better with Goodwin catching those balls? Hard to know though isn't it because if you happened to be at the fridge grabbing another beer it was possible to miss Goodwin's contribution to the season. Goodwin suffered from Marrone's Disease. Marrone wouldn't play him even when he was healthy. If you want to say Marrone knew what he was talking about on offense last year feel free. I doubt it helps your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Goodwin suffered from Marrone's Disease. Marrone wouldn't play him even when he was healthy. If you want to say Marrone knew what he was talking about on offense last year feel free. I doubt it helps your case. He held him out some games I agree. But Goodwin didn't perform last year even when he was on the field to argue different is to distort the truth. Whatever higher ceiling or greater potential you guys might think he has Hogan has the production to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 You presumably think we'd have been better with Goodwin catching those balls? Hard to know though isn't it because if you happened to be at the fridge grabbing another beer it was possible to miss Goodwin's contribution to the season. I personally do. If you asked a D Coordinator would you rather have to cover Hogan or Goodwin what do you think they preferred? Again, Hogan is an NFL receiver but he can be replaced fairly easily. That's why he has kicked around the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 He held him out some games I agree. But Goodwin didn't perform last year even when he was on the field to argue different is to distort the truth. Whatever higher ceiling or greater potential you guys might think he has Hogan has the production to back it up. That I have to agree and concede. Hogan has had better production. It looks to me, as of now, that Rex plans on keeping six, and that they will both make the team. Very hard cuts coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Bills were 1-6 when Hogan & Chandler combined for 7+ catches. Only win was the Vikings and they are bad. Teams were fine with those guys catching the ball because they couldn't hurt them.Odd stat... Yes, teams throw more when there losing- shocking. Anyways, Vikings are not that bad and hogan's catch in that game was rediculus. Catch of the year for the bills, thanks for bringing that game up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Odd stat... Yes, teams throw more when there losing- shocking. Anyways, Vikings are not that bad and hogan's catch in that game was rediculus. Catch of the year for the bills, thanks for bringing that game up That was a huge play and all but won the game for us. I was hoping he would take a big step after that. Hardly a ridiculous catch though. He jumped as high as he could and then caught it in his stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 There are some very hard cuts coming up this is true and listen if we cut Hogan I will be bummed about it for a couple of days because I think we will regret it he is a better player than given credit for and I will fear we have kept too many similar guys but at the end of the day we have good depth there and I wouldn't be disappointed to see Thompson or Goodwin or Davis make the team, just that I'd be a bit disappointed that Hogan hadn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 There are some very hard cuts coming up this is true and listen if we cut Hogan I will be bummed about it for a couple of days because I think we will regret it he is a better player than given credit for and I will fear we have kept too many similar guys but at the end of the day we have good depth there and I wouldn't be disappointed to see Thompson or Goodwin or Davis make the team, just that I'd be a bit disappointed that Hogan hadn't. Fwiw I think they should keep Hogan over Thompson or Davis who have both looked good. I also think they should keep him if they can get away with three TE and keep six. The wildcard for me is Thigpen. He's an excellent KR/PR and our top PR and KR without him are both hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Fwiw I think they should keep Hogan over Thompson or Davis who have both looked good. I also think they should keep him if they can get away with three TE and keep six. The wildcard for me is Thigpen. He's an excellent KR/PR and our top PR and KR without him are both hurt. Harvin better be returning kicks this year if he ever gets healthy or else I think he is a waste of whatever ridiculous price we are paying him. The one year rental of Percy Harvin is going to cost us a talented receiver who might have had a long term future on this team. I am not really a fan of the Harvin move at all. He has a lot to do to win me over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) Bills were 1-6when Hogan & Chandler combined for 7+ catches. Only win was the Vikings and they are bad. Teams were fine with those guys catching the ball because they couldn't hurt them.1-5. Point still stands. Edit: In fairness, it's more of an indictment of the QB's. They averaged 45 attempts in losses. 38 was the lowest attempt total in a loss. Edited August 22, 2015 by LBSeeBallLBGetBall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Harvin better be returning kicks this year if he ever gets healthy or else I think he is a waste of whatever ridiculous price we are paying him. The one year rental of Percy Harvin is going to cost us a talented receiver who might have had a long term future on this team. I am not really a fan of the Harvin move at all. He has a lot to do to win me over. Hard to tell by the post? I am not a fan of Harvin's hip injury right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 22, 2015 Author Share Posted August 22, 2015 @JonTWCNews: Asked Rex if injuries will hurt guys chances of making team. His response "Hard to make the club when you're in the tub." #Bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Odd stat... Yes, teams throw more when there losing- shocking. Anyways, Vikings are not that bad and hogan's catch in that game was rediculus. Catch of the year for the bills, thanks for bringing that game up Sammy in Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hogan to IR as long as they truly want to hang on to these young studs and see if they develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hogan to IR as long as they truly want to hang on to these young studs and see if they develop. Its something to consider i bet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Sammy in Detroit. Yessir! Beat me to it. What a play from Mr. Watkins on a ball thrown way behind him to win us a ball game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) Odd stat... Yes, teams throw more when there losing- shocking. Anyways, Vikings are not that bad and hogan's catch in that game was rediculus. Catch of the year for the bills, thanks for bringing that game up That was meant to read "the Bills were bad in the Vikings game." It autocorrected on me. 1-5. Point still stands. Edit: In fairness, it's more of an indictment of the QB's. They averaged 45 attempts in losses. 38 was the lowest attempt total in a loss. Oops, my bad. Teams can't take away everyone. It isn't coincidental to me that the more that those two saw the ball the worse off the team was. I haven't looked but I would bet that the Bills were pretty good when Watkins and Woods caught 10+. Edited August 22, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hogan to IR as long as they truly want to hang on to these young studs and see if they develop. Why would hogan agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Why would hogan agree? I was going to ask that. How does it work? Presumably if a player is not injured he can refuse to go on IR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I was going to ask that. How does it work? Presumably if a player is not injured he can refuse to go on IR? If a player is to be designated to IR and feels he this to not be accurate he can get a physical and prove he is healthy enough to pass the physical. If healthy enough he can put in papers for an injury/waive claim. It's more complicated, but at that point the player would have to say he's healthy and prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 That was meant to read "the Bills were bad in the Vikings game." It autocorrected on me. Oops, my bad. Teams can't take away everyone. It isn't coincidental to me that the more that those two saw the ball the worse off the team was. I haven't looked but I would bet that the Bills were pretty good when Watkins and Woods caught 10+. 3-3 with one win being the Minnesota game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 3-3 with one win being the Minnesota game.That's much stronger and factors in your point earlier about throwing when you are behind. It isn't perfect but I do find it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 That's much stronger and factors in your point earlier about throwing when you are behind. It isn't perfect but I do find it interesting. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) If a player is to be designated to IR and feels he this to not be accurate he can get a physical and prove he is healthy enough to pass the physical. If healthy enough he can put in papers for an injury/waive claim. It's more complicated, but at that point the player would have to say he's healthy and prove it. Essentially, yes. And for a guy on an RFA tender right now I'm sure he doesn't want to be stashed for another guy to showcase himself. A path to free agency is his friend even if he's the common player several of us see Edited August 23, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I was going to ask that. How does it work? Presumably if a player is not injured he can refuse to go on IR? He's injured now. It happens all the time when a team wants to protect a player who's not seriously injured. They can say they have no idea how long he'll be out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 He's injured now. It happens all the time when a team wants to protect a player who's not seriously injured. They can say they have no idea how long he'll be out. Rex said he's cautiously optimistic that Hogan would be ready for opening week but he wasn't sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Oh I am sure it is the Hogan haters who are going to be disappointed, for a 3rd year in a row. Not a Hogan hater at all, who hates Hogan? The guy is just not 4th best WR on the team, nor the 5th, based on this camp. He's 100% replaceable. Hogan and Easely will both be gone. Hogan has a better chance of making the team but probably only if they keep 6 WR and keep only 2 QB's or 1 kicker. Easely isn't going anywhere. He's ST captain and signed an extension in the off season. Sammy, Woods, Percy, Easely are locks. Goodwin is a lock in my book (and I think the coaches') but we'll say he's in the lead for the 4th WR spot (not counting Easely). That leaves Hogan, DT, Andre Davis, and Lewis (waaay back) fighting for the 6th WR spot if they even keep 6 (which I'm thinking they might). Hogan's going to have a hard time making the team if he can't get reps the next two weeks. Edited August 23, 2015 by GreggyT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Not a Hogan hater at all, who hates Hogan? The guy is just not 4th best WR on the team, nor the 5th, based on this camp. He's 100% replaceable. Whatever you say, Beyonce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Whatever you say, Beyonce. What does he do better than the guys we have? He's not really a boundary guy, he's good in the slot (but we got lots of those, all who are better), he blocks okay (Watkins, Woods and even Goodwin block better though), and he is solid on teams (Harvin, Easely, Goodwin and Woods are all better though). He's not spectacular at anything and has shown some frustrating field awareness issues throughout his tenure in Buffalo -- though that is something that is coachable and the kid is a worker. But it's a big boy's league and we've finally got a big boy roster to match. There's just too much talent in my eyes in DT or Davis to merit keeping Hogan over one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Not a Hogan hater at all, who hates Hogan? The guy is just not 4th best WR on the team, nor the 5th, based on this camp. He's 100% replaceable. Strange because when he had an outstanding camp last year the same people were advocating cutting him. You also have to balance camp performance against proven production when the lights come on and Chris Hogan's production is there and has improved year on year. Goodwin in particular had a poor start to camp though he has come on the last week, Thompson has flashed in games and Davis has had a camp of gradual improvement throughout as an undrafted rookie. I have said if that if Goodwin and one of the others have stellar play the next 2 weeks it could put Hogan in trouble, but I think it would be a mistake by the Bills to get rid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) What does he do better than the guys we have? He's not really a boundary guy, he's good in the slot (but we got lots of those, all who are better), he blocks okay (Watkins, Woods and even Goodwin block better though), and he is solid on teams (Harvin, Easely, Goodwin and Woods are all better though). He's not spectacular at anything and has shown some frustrating field awareness issues throughout his tenure in Buffalo -- though that is something that is coachable and the kid is a worker. But it's a big boy's league and we've finally got a big boy roster to match. There's just too much talent in my eyes in DT or Davis to merit keeping Hogan over one of them. Your post just made me think of you dedicating this to Hogan: Edited August 23, 2015 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Strange because when he had an outstanding camp last year the same people were advocating cutting him. You also have to balance camp performance against proven production when the lights come on and Chris Hogan's production is there and has improved year on year. Goodwin in particular had a poor start to camp though he has come on the last week, Thompson has flashed in games and Davis has had a camp of gradual improvement throughout as an undrafted rookie. I have said if that if Goodwin and one of the others have stellar play the next 2 weeks it could put Hogan in trouble, but I think it would be a mistake by the Bills to get rid. According to Sal, if it were up to Sanjay Lal, he would take Goodwin. Sal said last week on GR that Lal absolutely loves Goodwin. He's a guy that would know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 What does he do better than the guys we have? He's not really a boundary guy, he's good in the slot (but we got lots of those, all who are better), he blocks okay (Watkins, Woods and even Goodwin block better though), and he is solid on teams (Harvin, Easely, Goodwin and Woods are all better though). He's not spectacular at anything and has shown some frustrating field awareness issues throughout his tenure in Buffalo -- though that is something that is coachable and the kid is a worker. But it's a big boy's league and we've finally got a big boy roster to match. There's just too much talent in my eyes in DT or Davis to merit keeping Hogan over one of them. He is more complete as wide receiver than Goodwin and 100% blocks better. Personally I think he is more complete as a pure receiver than Gadget Harvin too. This "what one thing does he excel at?" is not the basis on what I would construct a roster. I want the best football players, not the fastest blokes or the tallest blokes. The best players, and if they have demonstrated it on a Sunday in the fall more is the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Strange because when he had an outstanding camp last year the same people were advocating cutting him. I wasn't advocating cutting Hogan last year. Got the wrong guy. He is more complete as wide receiver than Goodwin and 100% blocks better. Personally I think he is more complete as a pure receiver than Gadget Harvin too. This "what one thing does he excel at?" is not the basis on what I would construct a roster. I want the best football players, not the fastest blokes or the tallest blokes. The best players, and if they have demonstrated it on a Sunday in the fall more is the better. Goodwin blocks better than you think he does, the coaches talk about it frequently. And while I respect everyone's right to their opinion, knowing full well my own could well be wrong, in no reality is Hogan a more complete pure receiver than Harvin. That's just living in a different world, my friend. If you want the best football players on the final 53, Hogan's probably not on it -- even more so now that he's hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 According to Sal, if it were up to Sanjay Lal, he would take Goodwin. Sal said last week on GR that Lal absolutely loves Goodwin. He's a guy that would know. Well let's see what Lal said himself shall we? From Vic Carucci a week ago - "Lal is a major Hogan fan. He doesnt let the discussion of Harvin vs. Woods go very far before declaring, Chris Hogan is, to me, every bit as good as any of the receivers in some of the things hes shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Your post just made me think of you dedicating this to Hogan: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Well let's see what Lal said himself shall we? From Vic Carucci a week ago - "Lal is a major Hogan fan. He doesnt let the discussion of Harvin vs. Woods go very far before declaring, Chris Hogan is, to me, every bit as good as any of the receivers in some of the things hes shown. Key phrase: some of the things he's shown. I remember seeing that. I was also somewhat surprised by Sal's report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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