Hammerstick's pre-pre-season 53 Man Roster

[BetterNextYearRight?]

Hogan hasnt had a good camp, Deonte Thompson imo could steal that spot. More upside and great camp.

 

Gray has been practicing as the 2nd TE behind Clay. Think he would have to bomb to fall behind Gragg/O'Leary.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

I see Buchannon will be dropped and another OT will be found some how. Can see 3 Qbs staying and one DT dropped or maybe Powell, the LB as well and we keep an extra WR or Te.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

what makes you think that Gray is a lock?

I think Roman will put a high value on his versatility lining up different places and his athleticism- he's truly a weapon. If his blocking is improved he's on his way to bring a very useful player and seems to be #2 on their depth chart at the moment.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

I think Roman will put a high value on his versatility lining up different places and his athleticism- he's truly a weapon. If his blocking is improved he's on his way to bring a very useful player and seems to be #2 on their depth chart at the moment.

Fair points, I just believe that they've conducted TE rotations thus far has been somewhat meaniness, as it seems almost all the TEs have seen time with the 1s 2s and 3s. As KTD stated earlier, I think having versatility among the players is more important to Roman than having a Clay clone.

[Kelly the Dog]

Fair points, I just believe that they've conducted TE rotations thus far has been somewhat meaniness, as it seems almost all the TEs have seen time with the 1s 2s and 3s. As KTD stated earlier, I think having versatility among the players is more important to Roman than having a Clay clone.

Yep. if anything, O'Leary is the Clay clone. He can play all three TE positions; he's just a rookie and needs some seasoning. I just don't see the advantages of keeping four TEs, which is one too many for most teams, and then having two of those four being the exact same kind of player, in Gray and Gragg.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Yep. if anything, O'Leary is the Clay clone. He can play all three TE positions; he's just a rookie and needs some seasoning. I just don't see the advantages of keeping four TEs, which is one too many for most teams, and then having two of those four being the exact same kind of player, in Gray and Gragg.

I see this strictly as an option only if they plan to utilize a lot of two TE sets, which I believe they will. If they keep three, I'd say mulligan is the short straw. I see his value in the run game and possibly ST (KR and FG), but lose interest of they only keep 3. Romans 6 man OLs can replace his blocking if need be. Tomorrow will be interesting for that position group

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Fair points, I just believe that they've conducted TE rotations thus far has been somewhat meaniness, as it seems almost all the TEs have seen time with the 1s 2s and 3s. As KTD stated earlier, I think having versatility among the players is more important to Roman than having a Clay clone.

You may well be right about the rotations. Looking at the three categories of TEs Roman and KTD talked about, Clay satisfies all three, so they're all Clay clones in a way.

 

Roman loved his H-back types in SF and the ability to gain yards after the catch is huge for that kind of player. I like Gragg too I think he's proven he can be a useful receiver but still hold the opinion Gray is more versatile and more dangerous because of RAC. I don't know that Gray is really an inline guy though, which is why O'Leary has to show a real ability to contribute for me to cut Gragg. Jmo

[Kelly the Dog]

I see this strictly as an option only if they plan to utilize a lot of two TE sets, which I believe they will. If they keep three, I'd say mulligan is the short straw. I see his value in the run game and possibly ST (KR and FG), but lose interest of they only keep 3. Romans 6 man OLs can replace his blocking if need be. Tomorrow will be interesting for that position group

Perhaps I didn't articulate that well. I see the advantages of having four TEs in what Roman wants to do, and now I think they will. But IF you are going to use four TEs, I don't see the advantage of having two guys who are the same and only do one thing really well (unless they can do all three like Clay). Have four guys that do different things.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Perhaps I didn't articulate that well. I see the advantages of having four TEs in what Roman wants to do, and now I think they will. But IF you are going to use four TEs, I don't see the advantage of having two guys who are the same and only do one thing really well (unless they can do all three like Clay). Have four guys that do different things.

Aside from Clay, none other these guys are real triple threats (maybe O Leary but he needs time).

 

So in that case do you keep one in line guy (mull) and one H back role (gray/Gragg), and try to Stash O Leary on the PS?

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Aside from Clay, none other these guys are real triple threats (maybe O Leary but he needs time).

So in that case do you keep one in line guy (mull) and one H back role (gray/Gragg), and try to Stash O Leary on the PS?

I don't think O'Leary lasts on the PS.

[Kelly the Dog]

Aside from Clay, none other these guys are real triple threats (maybe O Leary but he needs time).

 

So in that case do you keep one in line guy (mull) and one H back role (gray/Gragg), and try to Stash O Leary on the PS?

I think if they keep three, it is Clay, O'Leary, and either Gray or Gragg. I don't think they want to risk losing O'Leary and Rex loves him. A team could easily put him on their 53 as their #3 TE. Then Roman uses Kujo or Henderson, whomever is the backup, in the two inline TE, or unbalanced lines that he likes to sporadically use.

 

Clay can play inline and so can O'Leary, he's just not great at it. But he's a baller. I think he stays but it's a tough call. We have a lot of them. Who would have thought we could have an ABUNDANCE of tight ends and we are in a position to have to cut a decent one.

[fridge]

I don't think O'Leary lasts on the PS.

 

If we do attempt to release him and stash him there, I think it would be telling, and I wouldn't be that upset about it. He came to a roster with huge question marks at TE, even with the Clay signing. If it's a talent thing, then there's no use holding out hope (though I do prefer his upside to a pure blocker like Mulligan).

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Who would have thought we could have an ABUNDANCE of tight ends and we are in a position to have to cut a decent one.

Its an awesome change of pace from anything I've experienced as a Bills fan. My prediction is Gragg goes and the other 4 stay but Gragg is a useful player too. I think Roman will really like Gray. Interesting race

[EmotionallyUnstable]

I think if they keep three, it is Clay, O'Leary, and either Gray or Gragg. I don't think they want to risk losing O'Leary and Rex loves him. A team could easily put him on their 53 as their #3 TE. Then Roman uses Kujo or Henderson, whomever is the backup, in the two inline TE, or unbalanced lines that he likes to sporadically use.

 

Clay can play inline and so can O'Leary, he's just not great at it. But he's a baller. I think he stays but it's a tough call. We have a lot of them. Who would have thought we could have an ABUNDANCE of tight ends and we are in a position to have to cut a decent one.

I agree that if they keep three, mulligan is expendable.

Its an awesome change of pace from anything I've experienced as a Bills fan. My prediction is Gragg goes and the other 4 stay but Gragg is a useful player too. I think Roman will really like Gray. Interesting race

I haven't heard any really negative notes about any of our TEs. So maybe it will really come down to who Roman likes better, not necessarily who is better.

[purple haze]

Aside from Clay, none other these guys are real triple threats (maybe O Leary but he needs time).

 

So in that case do you keep one in line guy (mull) and one H back role (gray/Gragg), and try to Stash O Leary on the PS?

I want four guys who can do the same things. That way when any of them are on the field the defense has to guess what the offense might be doing. As opposed to thinking, for instance, a Lee Smith is in the game so probably a running play, and be correct more often than not.

 

Gray, Gragg and O'Leary are closer to Clay than Mulligan. Unless Mulligan shows a more diverse game in pre-season.

Edited August 13, 2015 by purple haze

[EmotionallyUnstable]

I want four guys who can do the same things. That way when any of them are on the field the defense has to guess what the offense might be doing. As opposed to thinking a LeevSmith is in the game so probably a running play, and be correct more often than not.

I think that's the beauty of having an actual coaching staff. We can have different style TEs and use them in multiple combinations, formations and plays, dependent on the opponent. Not running screens to Lee Smith will be a nice change of pace.

[Kelly the Dog]

I want four guys who can do the same things. That way when any of them are on the field the defense has to guess what the offense might be doing. As opposed to thinking a LeevSmith is in the game so probably a running play, and be correct more often than not.

But youre not often going to have all four active let alone all four in on the same play. Two of the same players is redundant for the most part because we have Clay. We are banking on the fact that other team's defenses are not going to have the depth or versatility to counteract ours. Like they are going to see two TEs enter the game and immediately go into their two TE defense, and not the two TE where one is split and one is an HB versus inline defense. They just couldn't.

 

We are basically a power running team. Clay does everything well. Sometime you want a monster blocker in there. Sometimes you want two versatile players in there one of which will be Clay.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Kelly the Dog

[purple haze]

I think that's the beauty of having an actual coaching staff. We can have different style TEs and use them in multiple combinations, formations and plays, dependent on the opponent. Not running screens to Lee Smith will be a nice change of pace.

True. The good thing about Whaley's roster is some good players will have to be let go. The bad thing is many of them will be players we, as fans, have an affinity for.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

True. The good thing about Whaley's roster is some good players will have to be let go. The bad thing is many of them will be players we, as fans, have an affinity for.

Well said.

[HailMary]

You lost me at EJ - he's so done and might not even make the roster as a 3rd string QB. Stop drinking the Freshie.

[Rocky Landing]

Hogan hasnt had a good camp, Deonte Thompson imo could steal that spot. More upside and great camp.

 

Gray has been practicing as the 2nd TE behind Clay. Think he would have to bomb to fall behind Gragg/O'Leary.

Don't agree on Hogan. He's not a lock, but I think he's close.

 

I do agree on Gray. It's interesting how little press he's gotten, however-- even from Astro. From reading the camp updates, tweets, articles, etc, it's almost like he isn't there. Personally, I've been talking him up since the end of last season. I love his versatility, size, athleticism, and especially his intelligence. And it would seem that his major reported weakness-- his blocking ability-- has improved enormously. I also love his character, and I do admit that I am a bit of a character guy, as a fan.

[fridge]

You lost me at EJ - he's so done and might not even make the roster as a 3rd string QB. Stop drinking the Freshie.

 

Bookmarked.

[GunnerBill]

Hogan hasnt had a good camp, Deonte Thompson imo could steal that spot. More upside and great camp.

 

Gray has been practicing as the 2nd TE behind Clay. Think he would have to bomb to fall behind Gragg/O'Leary.

Where have you got Hogan having a bad campt from? I haven't heard that from anywhere else and Rex mentioned him specifically in one of the press conferences last week where they asked him who would be the 2nd receiver out of Woods and Harvin and he said he saw them as both being legit 2nd guys and don't forget we have Chris Hogan too before then saying some other guys had shown "nice things". I think in the staff's mind it is those 4 and then a scrum for the 5th and/or 6th spots.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Where have you got Hogan having a bad campt from? I haven't heard that from anywhere else and Rex mentioned him specifically in one of the press conferences last week where they asked him who would be the 2nd receiver out of Woods and Harvin and he said he saw them as both being legit 2nd guys and don't forget we have Chris Hogan too before then saying some other guys had shown "nice things". I think in the staff's mind it is those 4 and then a scrum for the 5th and/or 6th spots.

I believe Easley is a lock, strictly for ST value. Plus, he seems to have been making plays throughout camp.

[San-O]

Buddy??

 

 

Dude, your list lost all cred. with ur first roster spot. Assuming ur serious...

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Buddy??

 

 

Dude, your list lost all cred. with ur first roster spot. Assuming ur serious...

 

Whaa? Care to elaborate? Do you take exception with my selection of QB's, oh omniscient one?

[Rocky Landing]

I believe Easley is a lock, strictly for ST value. Plus, he seems to have been making plays throughout camp.

I think it's early to call anyone other than Watkins, Woods, and Harvin a lock. But, obviously, we're not going to just carry three WRs. I think Hogan and Easley top the list behind them, and I think you may be right that Easley has a slight, if irrelevant, edge on Hogan-- if for no other reason that they have already signed Easley's contract.

 

I'm a pretty big Hogan fan, though. He's gotten better, and stronger, and more consistent every season, and offseason, and has as a high a work ethic as anyone on the roster. He's the right kind of guy to have on the team.

[San-O]

 

Whaa? Care to elaborate? Do you take exception with my selection of QB's, oh omniscient one?

 

 

Funny. LOL. Fair enough.

 

I don't see Cassel not making the team keeping the other two:

 

1. Taylor has NEVER started an NFL game I think.

 

2. E.J. doesn't seem to be making progress by most accounts.

 

3. Ryan isn't going to blow his 1st season in Buffalo behind 2 unproven QBs.

 

4. If Cassel flames out, then that's on the G.M. and the organization more than R. Ryan. IMO

 

Could we agree that after the 2nd (Cleveland) pre-season game, the # 1 starter is it?

[EmotionallyUnstable]

 

 

Funny. LOL. Fair enough.

 

I don't see Cassel not making the team keeping the other two:

 

1. Taylor has NEVER started an NFL game I think.

 

2. E.J. doesn't seem to be making progress by most accounts.

 

3. Ryan isn't going to blow his 1st season in Buffalo behind 2 unproven QBs.

 

4. If Cassel flames out, then that's on the G.M. and the organization more than R. Ryan. IMO

 

Could we agree that after the 2nd (Cleveland) pre-season game, the # 1 starter is it?

If Cassel doesn't start, there is no real advantage of having him on your roster in my opinion.

I think it's early to call anyone other than Watkins, Woods, and Harvin a lock. But, obviously, we're not going to just carry three WRs. I think Hogan and Easley top the list behind them, and I think you may be right that Easley has a slight, if irrelevant, edge on Hogan-- if for no other reason that they have already signed Easley's contract.

 

I'm a pretty big Hogan fan, though. He's gotten better, and stronger, and more consistent every season, and offseason, and has as a high a work ethic as anyone on the roster. He's the right kind of guy to have on the team.

I'm with you, I think both are poised to make the roster. if they keep 6, that's when you have to consider Thigpen or Goodwin, but neither of those two should be kept of Hogan or Easley

[section122hero]

http://hardfoulsports.com/2015/08/13/bills-53-man-roster-projection-early-training-camp-edition-with-bonus-interactive-roster-builder/

[San-O]

If Cassel doesn't start, there is no real advantage of having him on your roster in my opinion.

 

I'm with you, I think both are poised to make the roster. if they keep 6, that's when you have to consider Thigpen or Goodwin, but neither of those two should be kept of Hogan or Easley

 

I disagree somewhat. Cassel does have experience, no real upside, however he might be the caretaker / game manager for you for 1 season.

 

E.J. and T.T.??? Pretty risky IMO.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

 

 

Funny. LOL. Fair enough.

 

I don't see Cassel not making the team keeping the other two:

 

1. Taylor has NEVER started an NFL game I think.

 

2. E.J. doesn't seem to be making progress by most accounts.

 

3. Ryan isn't going to blow his 1st season in Buffalo behind 2 unproven QBs.

 

4. If Cassel flames out, then that's on the G.M. and the organization more than R. Ryan. IMO

 

Could we agree that after the 2nd (Cleveland) pre-season game, the # 1 starter is it?

 

Is it worth 4+ million to keep a QB who has yet to clearly establish himself as the starter? I mean, you'd think a guy worth that kind of coin would have separated himself from the others by now. No?

 

Also, Cassel hasn't really done anything since 2010. Is my prediction that far off base?

[Gugny]

Buddy??

 

 

Dude, your list lost all cred. with ur first roster spot. Assuming ur serious...

 

You spelled out the first "your," but used ur for the last two. Y?

[EmotionallyUnstable]

 

Is it worth 4+ million to keep a QB who has yet to clearly establish himself as the starter? I mean, you'd think a guy worth that kind of coin would have separated himself from the others by now. No?

 

Also, Cassel hasn't really done anything since 2010. Is my prediction that far off base?

Exactly. Both EJ and TT can be serviceable backups. Also, if you think about where that money can go to (extending Dareus), then it really does make sense

[San-O]

 

Is it worth 4+ million to keep a QB who has yet to clearly establish himself as the starter? I mean, you'd think a guy worth that kind of coin would have separated himself from the others by now. No?

 

Also, Cassel hasn't really done anything since 2010. Is my prediction that far off base?

 

Well, the Bills keep finding themselves in this rent-a-vet situation. I see Cassel as essentially the same QB as Orton last year: a warm body that

has experience and probably won't really lose you too many games.

 

I'm not going all-in with E.J. and T.T., if I were coach / G.M.

 

You spelled out the first "your," but used ur for the last two. Y?

 

LTS... "Lazy Texting Syndrome".

[Johnny Hammersticks]

 

Well, the Bills keep finding themselves in this rent-a-vet situation. I see Cassel as essentially the same QB as Orton last year: a warm body that

has experience and probably won't really lose you too many games.

 

I'm not going all-in with E.J. and T.T., if I were coach / G.M.

 

LTS... "Lazy Texting Syndrome".

 

I would contend that Orton lost us quite a few games last year. He was horrible down the stretch. If not for the defense, he might only have won 1 or 2 games. I'd rather roll the dice with Tyrod Taylor and EJ and hope for some excitement than watch Cassel throw 6 yard curl routes all game long because he has a dead arm. JMO though.

[Rocky Landing]

If Cassel doesn't start, there is no real advantage of having him on your roster in my opinion.

I completely disagree with this. The one thing you can say about Cassel is that he is a known commodity in a regular season game. Mediocre, sure. But, if we only carry two QBs, EJ/Taylor (or Taylor/EJ... whichever) could end up looking a lot like 2013. And, if we carry three, which seems likely to me, given our situation, it better not be EJ/Taylor/Simms. That would look even more like 2013!

 

 

Is it worth 4+ million to keep a QB who has yet to clearly establish himself as the starter? I mean, you'd think a guy worth that kind of coin would have separated himself from the others by now. No?

 

Also, Cassel hasn't really done anything since 2010. Is my prediction that far off base?

I believe that when the decision is made whether or not to keep Cassel, his price tag will not even enter the conversation. But, as far as "separation" is concerned, I think, in regards to Cassel, the question is more about consistency. Has Cassel become more consistent through TC? And, I think the answer is, yes. I don't think anyone was hoping, or expecting Cassel to turn into something other than Cassel. If EJ, or Tyrod were to pull away in TC, there is still no guarantee that they would consistently perform in the regular season. The reason for Cassel to be on the QB roster would be to provide some consistency, mediocre that may be. Because, consistently mediocre may end up being our best option, sad to say.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Rocky Landing

[Johnny Hammersticks]

 

 

I believe that when the decision is made whether or not to keep Cassel, his price tag will not even enter the conversation. But, as far as "separation" is concerned, I think, in regards to Cassel, the question is more about consistency. Has Cassel become more consistent through TC? And, I think the answer is, yes. I don't think anyone was hoping, or expecting Cassel to turn into something other than Cassel. If EJ, or Tyrod were to pull away in TC, there is still no guarantee that they would consistently perform in the regular season. The reason for Cassel to be on the QB roster would be to provide some consistency, mediocre that may be. Because, consistently mediocre may end up being our best option, sad to say.

 

I respect your perception, but I disagree. I would content that, if anything, Tyrod Taylor has been the most consistent AND has improved the most. Cassel seems to have a decent practice followed by 2 or 3 not so good practices.

[metzelaars_lives]

If Cassel doesn't start, there is no real advantage of having him on your roster in my opinion.

 

I'm with you, I think both are poised to make the roster. if they keep 6, that's when you have to consider Thigpen or Goodwin, but neither of those two should be kept of Hogan or Easley

What? That doesn't make any sense. He's exactly the guy you want as your backup if you do decide to roll the dice on Taylor. Cassel will be on the freaking team unless he completely implodes. The only question is which of the other two, if not both of them, they keep. As of today, my prediction based on their performances so far is that EJ gets cut outright. There is still plenty of time, obviously, for that to change.

I completely disagree with this. The one thing you can say about Cassel is that he is a known commodity in a regular season game. Mediocre, sure. But, if we only carry two QBs, EJ/Taylor (or Taylor/EJ... whichever) could end up looking a lot like 2013. And, if we carry three, which seems likely to me, given our situation, it better not be EJ/Taylor/Simms. That would look even more like 2013!

 

I believe that when the decision is made whether or not to keep Cassel, his price tag will not even enter the conversation. But, as far as "separation" is concerned, I think, in regards to Cassel, the question is more about consistency. Has Cassel become more consistent through TC? And, I think the answer is, yes. I don't think anyone was hoping, or expecting Cassel to turn into something other than Cassel. If EJ, or Tyrod were to pull away in TC, there is still no guarantee that they would consistently perform in the regular season. The reason for Cassel to be on the QB roster would be to provide some consistency, mediocre that may be. Because, consistently mediocre may end up being our best option, sad to say.

Yes, exactly.

[Rocky Landing]

 

I respect your perception, but I disagree. I would content that, if anything, Tyrod Taylor has been the most consistent AND has improved the most. Cassel seems to have a decent practice followed by 2 or 3 not so good practices.

I agree that Taylor has shown the most consistency, and improvement (although, I have only camp reports, etc,on which to base my opinion). But, the problem is (and the reason that Cassel has value on this roster), is that TT has never started a regular season game, and has only performed in the regular season during "garbage time." (I hate that phrase) Even if he shows well in preseason games, it will be hard to fully commit to him, without a veteran backup who can be relied upon as a known commodity.

 

Be that as it may, I have to wonder: If the QB competition isn't going to be resolved until the start of the regular season (which, given Ryan's recent comments, is a very real possibility, if not likelihood), would we be better served by turning this from a three-way competition, into a two-way competition? Maybe it's become less about who pulls away, and more about who drops behind?