Ted Black out: Russ Brandon to head Sabres and Bills

[Kirby Jackson]

I guess we have to see what the position entails to really make judgement. It seems like it may meld sometime into a PS&E Overlord who oversees the new football stadium, possible sports network, Bills, and Sabres. Wouldnt be shocked to see a "president" of each the Bills and Sabres in the next 5 years.

 

 

I hope as a Sabres fan that they dont lose the engagement with fans. They asked us, we said Kevin Sylvester is awful, and they immediately stopped grooming him for the heir apparent to RJ and took him off the broadcasts. We hated the 3rd jersey, they turfed it. Ted Black met with Season Ticket holders before home games (I was selected this year for one). It was great, we were treated very well, he spoke about the organization and gave insight people dont typically get... he took questions and gave honest answers, Girgensons came in to thank us, gave away auto'd jerseys, they provided snax & beer, gave us visiting team's family tix as upgrades, etc... It has been great. Many people complained about concessions... now they are much more friendly and efficient (while it took me almost a whole quarter to get pizza logs made for me at a Bills game last year with no line).

 

On the flip side, I dont feel nearly as engaged as a Bills fan. Maybe a case of the Pegulas continuing to take over

That is the case with the sixers and Devils. Scott O'Neil is the overlord and then he has someone as the president (or CEO) of each team. That may very well be the case here. If it is look for Dave Wheat to be the Bills president and Bruce Popko to hold the same role for the Sabres.

 

In terms of the fan relations stuff that has been going on for years in other leagues. The Sabres had been behind the 8 ball by about a decade. To Black's credit he closed the gap some but they aren't doing anything innovative. You are never going to see that level of fan engagement in the NFL. It just isn't practical. Down here the ownership (Benson) has the NBA and NFL and they are run by the same people. The operation is different though much like you mentioned above.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[Lurker]

More revisionism. Marv was hired because Mr. Wilson was reeling after the Donahoe fiasco. He felt betrayed and needed someone he trusted implicitly.

 

 

Exactly. After Donahoe, Ralph wanted someone he trusted in the position. Marv owed his whole career to Ralph and also considered him a friend, so he accepted the GM job even though he knew he wasn't qualified for it.

 

Marv was always a caretaker whose major responsibility was to reconnect Ralph to the team, with everything else being incidental...

[C.Biscuit97]

Brandon needs to let other people eat!!! Pegula is cheap! He just wants to pay one guy for 2 jobs! Cheap!

 

It's laughable the hate Brandon got. He is very good at his job and has been one of the best assets the a bills have had. We're lucky to have him (now hook me up with a job Russ!)

[BADOLBILZ]

He had some bad people running football ops at different periods - no doubt. That is the only on field area that he was ever responsible for. It did not go well.

 

Was Marrone bad? His team hit, played hard and had a better record than anyone in over a decade. In addition they improved. He was a pretty good football coach and a lousy human being.

 

It has NOTHING to do with consulting with the owner. Consulting and deferring are not the same. RB (and Marv) deferred all football related decisions. Ultimately neither was responsible for any particular player (good or bad). What Russ was responsible for was the people that added those players to the roster. Marv really wasn't responsible for anything.

 

Whaley makes football decisions by consulting the scouting staff. That's the same way that Nix, Modrak (college)/Guy (pro) and Donahoe before them did it. I'm not really sure what you are trying to get at but that's the way that it has worked at OBD for the last 15 years.

 

 

So when they cut Fred Jackson......Terry Pegula will find out about it on the ESPN bottom line?

 

The point I am getting at is with regard to important decisions.....not which UDFA's to pursue.

 

And the Bills have gone on record numerous times that those are made by consensus of GM, coaches and ownership.

 

You left two of those 3 elements out.

 

Something tells me the scouts weren't consulted too much wrt to trading Lynch and Peters...for instance.

[BADOLBILZ]

More revisionism. Marv was hired because Mr. Wilson was reeling after the Donahoe fiasco. He felt betrayed and needed someone he trusted implicitly.

 

 

Hey it wasn't my take.

 

Kirby has been implying that Marv had no say whatsoever.

 

I tend to agree with your take and disagree with his.

 

I do actually believe that upon his landing in Buffalo, Marv played a big part in the Bills plan to re-enact "The Patriot Way".

 

That's when he signed about 15 complete garbage free agents...the star of which was the unforgettable Robert Royal....... in an attempt to replicate that magical synergy that the Pats *apparently* had found via dumpster diving for personnel.

 

Of course......it turned out that much of their early success was predicated on knowing the plays the other team was going to run.

 

That kind of cluelessness and utter disregard for the jimmy's and the joe's in favor of something much less tangible is SOOOOO Marv.

 

Modrak was a schlub but he was all about stacking talent at Pitt and Philly I find it really hard to believe he would be responsible for that hippy-esque gameplan.

 

For all the sleeping Marv did in meetings at least he was in the building.

 

Modrak wouldn't take the GM job because he didn't want to commit to it.

 

If everyone else gets excused for half-steppin' why is it that Modrak doesn't when he wouldn't leave his fishing hole in Jacksonville to even scout games?

 

There was a whole lotta' blame to go around so the attempting to narrow it down to him is real hindsight.

Edited July 29, 2015 by #BADOL

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

So when they cut Fred Jackson......Terry Pegula will find out about it on the ESPN bottom line?

 

The point I am getting at is with regard to important decisions.....not which UDFA's to pursue.

 

And the Bills have gone on record numerous times that those are made by consensus of GM, coaches and ownership.

 

You left two of those 3 elements out.

 

Something tells me the scouts weren't consulted too much wrt to trading Lynch and Peters...for instance.

I did my best to explain the corporate structure. The Bills have ALWAYS been collaborative. That doesn't mean that RB or Marv had a vote. The football people (scouting & coaching) made those decisions (right or wrong). If you have an issue with the football people (who haven't been good) by all means.

 

Hey it wasn't my take.

 

Kirby has been implying that Marv had no say whatsoever.

 

I tend to agree with your take and disagree with his.

 

I do actually believe that upon his landing in Buffalo, Marv played a big part in the Bills plan to re-enact "The Patriot Way".

 

For all the sleeping Marv did in meetings at least he was in the building.

 

 

In terms of Marv's role you can treat it as insinuation but in reality it is a fact. You can take my info any way that you want but it's the truth. Marv literally slept through the biggest draft meeting of the year.

[BADOLBILZ]

I did my best to explain the corporate structure. The Bills have ALWAYS been collaborative. That doesn't mean that RB or Marv had a vote. The football people (scouting & coaching) made those decisions (right or wrong). If you have an issue with the football people (who haven't been good) by all means.

In terms of Marv's role you can treat it as insinuation but in reality it is a fact. You can take my info any way that you want but it's the truth. Marv literally slept through the biggest draft meeting of the year.

 

 

 

Marv was completely out of football and he was hired just months before the draft....why on earth would it be a surprise to anyone that he would let the scouts pick the players they'd been researching since they arrived on campus?

 

Here is what we do know.........HE hired Dick Jauron.

 

They then set forth on a completely hair-brained personnel plan.

 

Let's sign a bunch of scrubs to try to replicate the Pats. Overpay if necessary.

 

But they gotta be under-sized.

 

And if they would prefer to play elsewhere.......then we will grant their wish even if it means getting zero in return and having to use our top picks just to replace them.

 

How much of it was Marv and Dicks awful plan and NOT the actual players that you want to blame the personnel department for?

 

Take a look at the actual players they drafted or found in UDFA during that era.

 

Not that bad......but when you start out with a mediocre team and then you not only incorrectly over-prioritize certain positions but also have to use your top picks to replace free agents you let go every year......despite a wealth of cap space........ you will have a hard time getting better.

 

Whitner, Lynch, Poz, McKelvin......pretty good players drafted to replace Milloy(Marv cut) McGahee(Marv trade) Fletcher(Marv let walk) and Clements (Marv let walk).

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

 

Marv was completely out of football and he was hired just months before the draft....why on earth would it be a surprise to anyone that he would let the scouts pick the players they'd been researching since they arrived on campus?

 

Here is what we do know.........HE hired Dick Jauron.

 

They then set forth on a completely hair-brained personnel plan.

 

Let's sign a bunch of scrubs to try to replicate the Pats. Overpay if necessary.

 

But they gotta be under-sized.

 

And if they would prefer to play elsewhere.......then we will grant their wish even if it means getting zero in return and having to use our top picks just to replace them.

 

How much of it was Marv and Dicks awful plan and NOT the actual players that you want to blame the personnel department for?

 

Take a look at the actual players they drafted or found in UDFA during that era.

 

Not that bad......but when you start out with a mediocre team and then you not only incorrectly over-prioritize certain positions but also have to use your top picks to replace free agents you let go every year......despite a wealth of cap space........ you will have a hard time getting better.

 

Whitner, Lynch, Poz, McKelvin......pretty good players drafted to replace Milloy(Marv cut) McGahee(Marv trade) Fletcher(Marv let walk) and Clements (Marv let walk).

The only place where I disagree is bolded. The 2006 draft was unspeakably bad and sunk this team for many, many years, just as we said it would. They actually traded away an early pick to select garbage players in this draft which was chock full of talent at key positions.

People will point to Kyle Williams in the 5th too, and that's ok. He WAS a great selection but it wasn't enough to cover the hole that they dug for the team and the fans in the first 4 rounds. It was just plain ugly and I still cannot understand this kind of idiocy 9 years later.

[BADOLBILZ]

The only place where I disagree is bolded. The 2006 draft was unspeakably bad and sunk this team for many, many years, just as we said it would. They actually traded away an early pick to select garbage players in this draft which was chock full of talent at key positions.

People will point to Kyle Williams in the 5th too, and that's ok. He WAS a great selection but it wasn't enough to cover the hole that they dug for the team and the fans in the first 4 rounds. It was just plain ugly and I still cannot understand this kind of idiocy 9 years later.

 

The problem was that those drafts were supposed to be foundation builders and instead they were not only using those picks on replacements for good players they should have been building WITH..... but also trying to build from the outside in.

 

When Nix came in he corrected that but his inability to pull the trigger at the right time on a QB has lead to a painfully slow 6 year re-build.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

When Nix came in he corrected that but his inability to pull the trigger at the right time on a QB has lead to a painfully slow 6 year re-build.

Agree with this. It was kind of odd that the Bills were picking a 1st round QB in a year where MAYBE 1 QB had a 1st round grade. You have to can't just draft a guy to be your franchise QB because you need one. You still have to do it at the right time and get the right player.

[JohnC]

Agree with this. It was kind of odd that the Bills were picking a 1st round QB in a year where MAYBE 1 QB had a 1st round grade. You have to can't just draft a guy to be your franchise QB because you need one. You still have to do it at the right time and get the right player.

I went along with the trade-up and forfeiture of a first round selection for this year for the supremely talented Watkins. In hindsight it would have been better to trade down, get an extra pick or so, and then select either Bridgewater or Carr. If that fanciful scenario would have played out there would be a more optimistic outlook on this upcoming season and its future.

 

In every training camp there is a surprising development. Sometimes a small and seemingly inconsequential acquisition turns out to be impactful. Don't sleep on Tyrod Taylor. Just saying!!!!!

Edited July 31, 2015 by JohnC

[Kirby Jackson]

I went along with the trade-up and forfeiture of a first round selection for this year for the supremely talented Watkins. In hindsight it would have been better to trade down, get an extra pick or so, and then select either Bridgewater or Carr. If that fanciful scenario would have played out there would be a more optimistic outlook on this upcoming season and its future.

 

In every training camp there is a surprising development. Sometimes a small and seemingly inconsequential acquisition turns out to be impactful. Don't sleep on Tyrod Taylor. Just saying!!!!!

I still have no issues with the Watkins trade because I think that he will be an elite WR. They went up and got a star; I will never be mad at that. It is when you go up and miss (Losman, McCargo) then it hurts you.

 

He's very interesting to me and the guy as of today that I am hoping wins the competition. I don't believe in the other 2. With that being said, if they win the job I will support them and hope to be wrong. The unknown of Tyrod to me is more appealing than what I know of with Cassel and EJ.

 

Originally, I thought that Cassel may be an okay fit. A vet that will make good decisions and not make a lot of mistakes. If the OTA's were any indication, that is not him at this point. Strangely, I think that with a motivated Orton this team is a legit Super Bowl contender (and he wasn't very good). If the Bills can get an Alex Smith level of QB play they are serious contenders. Tyrod seems like the most likely candidate to play at a "middle of the league" level.

 

p.s. sorry for going way off topic (especially considering there are 4,000 other threads discussing this).

Edited July 31, 2015 by Kirby Jackson

[OCinBuffalo]

We've reached the point where we're now lauding RB for the Toronto series? I definitely feel like I've landed in Jonestown.

Every time I hear this I laugh. The Bills, and specifically Russ Brandon, raped Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment on that deal. That was a pure cash play, and we got the better end, far and away, which is why they extended it at first.

 

And, it acheived another stated, and obvious goal: Canadian ticket sales have now increased from 11% to 20%. It was merely one more tactic that suports Brandon's regionalization strategy. Why the F would anybody complain about a business guy doing a business guy deal, and that business deal working as designed?

 

However, and this is pure speculation on my part, but...try and find a hole in it, the Toronto series had a stealth objective as well.

 

You can see it based on the behavior of Jerry Jones. Prior to Pegula, Jerry Jones was the best indicator of whether something the Bills were doing was good for them, because it was bad for him, and he'd publicly complain. Why? Jerry Jones is overextended financially. It's gotten so bad, that Cowboys home games: aren't. And here. And here.

 

For Jones, everything now is about valuation. Wins and losses don't even matter. His debt to equity ratio is king. His equity has to be valued high enough, to prevent the banks he's borrowed from foreclosing on him. Therefore, in addition to crazy ticket prices, Jerry Jones requires 2 things:

1. Every other team in the NFL has to have a high enough appraised value, to make the Cowboys claims of their valuation feasbile to their creditors. If any team is sold for less than what Jerry Jones says is market price, he's in trouble.

2. Jerry Jones needs every NFL team to be making as much revenue as possible, therefore, more revenue goes to him when it is shared. All small market teams reduce the potential Cowboys revenue, and so he wants to either eliminate them, or, force them to increase their revenue significantly.

 

This is why Jerry Jones bitched when the Toronto deal was first signed. This is why he called Bon Jovi a "great husband and father". This is why Donald Trump got involved. All of it was to make sure that the Bills were: sold for a high price, and, either moved to Toronto to guarantee more revenue, or, owned by somebody who Jerry was sure would generate more revenue. That's why: the minute Pegula stepped up and said he'd pay top $ for the Bills, Jerry shut his mouth, and both Bon Jovi and Trump were left twisting in the wind. (Although I remain convinced that Trump was merely doing the NFL a favor by being a stalking horse, gaining forgiveness for his USFL sins, and gaining the option to buy a team in the future)

 

But, Jerry Jones was outfoxed by Russ Brandon long before this, with the Toronto series. Jones bitches about revenue sharing: the Bills go out and bring in a cash windfall. What can Jerry say? That was the stealth objective: counter Jones's narrative, and thereby, weaken his credibility with the other owners. Brandon was, and now is, able to snag Toronto revenue, while keeping the team in Buffalo. At the time it was the last thing Jones wanted.

 

This is all confirmed by the fact that Jones hasn't said a damn thing about the Bills since Pegula made his bid. As I said, this is all speculation, but, where am I going wrong/what's a more likely explanation?

Dude cares about the bottom line, not about whether a team wins or loses. That is a bad thing.

Not when your job, as stated, is to be the business guy. Tim Murray and Doug Whaley are, in both title and fact, responsible for Ws. Russ Brandon is responsible for $. Period. Again, why are we bitching about a guy outperforming expectation in his assigned role?

[May Day 10]

the STH from Ontario rose from 11% to 17%.

 

That equates to roughly 2,500 seats. How many were from Toronto? How many as a result of that great and authentic display of Bills football in the Skydome?

How many were due to the surging Canadian dollar and general high Canadian shopping activity here?

 

 

 

It was an effective cash grab. That is all it was. We can move on. We will see a lot more Canadians when the wins pile in.

[OCinBuffalo]

the STH from Ontario rose from 11% to 17%.

 

That equates to roughly 2,500 seats. How many were from Toronto? How many as a result of that great and authentic display of Bills football in the Skydome?

How many were due to the surging Canadian dollar and general high Canadian shopping activity here?

 

 

 

It was an effective cash grab. That is all it was. We can move on. We will see a lot more Canadians when the wins pile in.

My numbers are 11% to 20% as quoted by the team, and they represent all ticket sales in general, not just STH. You're asking for a quantitative, discreet set of data that neither of us have, and using its absence as an argument for your position? Try again. However, I bet Russ Brandon has that data.

 

Um, this is the current value of the Canadian Dollar, and it wasn't "high" for the last 2 years of games, at least, in Toronto, as shown in the graph. (I will always remember the pissant Canadian howling "The US is done" in the bathroom at the Bills game, in 2008. )

 

So, we've gone from the Toronto series being a total loser idea, created by a complete idiot....to an effective cash grab. And now it's time to move on? Interesting. Perhaps if you do a little more thinking, you can see beyond the cash, and realize that it wasn't the only objective.

[May Day 10]

at the same time the increase was happening, the Canadian dollar was strengthened. Is that not a factor at all? Only factor was that sham game?

 

 

 

 

edit:

Im not upset about it any more at all. At the center of it, it was perceived as cracking the door open to a huge market that had its eyes set on stealing our team. The game was symbolic of us losing the Bills. Now that it is gone, and the series is gone forever, it just doesnt matter.

 

 

I still disagree that it was an effective Regionalization tool. I have never met a Canadian fan who liked the series and/or was compelled to go to RWS because of it.

 

 

It earned the Bills some bucks. Its history. Im fine with it.

Edited July 31, 2015 by May Day 10

[Kirby Jackson]

at the same time the increase was happening, the Canadian dollar was strengthened. Is that not a factor at all? Only factor was that sham game?

 

 

 

 

edit:

Im not upset about it any more at all. At the center of it, it was perceived as cracking the door open to a huge market that had its eyes set on stealing our team. The game was symbolic of us losing the Bills. Now that it is gone, and the series is gone forever, it just doesnt matter.

 

 

I still disagree that it was an effective Regionalization tool. I have never met a Canadian fan who liked the series and/or was compelled to go to RWS because of it.

 

 

It earned the Bills some bucks. Its history. Im fine with it.

I'm not sure how you can take that stance when the data says the exact opposite?

[OCinBuffalo]

at the same time the increase was happening, the Canadian dollar was strengthened. Is that not a factor at all? Only factor was that sham game?

 

 

 

 

edit:

Im not upset about it any more at all. At the center of it, it was perceived as cracking the door open to a huge market that had its eyes set on stealing our team. The game was symbolic of us losing the Bills. Now that it is gone, and the series is gone forever, it just doesnt matter.

 

 

I still disagree that it was an effective Regionalization tool. I have never met a Canadian fan who liked the series and/or was compelled to go to RWS because of it.

 

 

It earned the Bills some bucks. Its history. Im fine with it.

Basic marketing rears its head: by your own admission, you never met a Canadian fan who was unaware of it. I bet you'd have been hard-pressed to find anyone in Ontario who was unaware of it. And awareness is marketing job #1.

 

Awareness, followed by supporting interest, and then asking for the sale, is how you increase revenue. This is community college level stuff.

 

Brandon, besieged as he was in 2008 with an elderly, way past his prime, owner, no clear vision for the team's future, potential chaos looming with his owner's death, and with many hostile team owners against, did something nobody expected, and won with it.

 

It doesn't matter whether any of us were angry with it, or are over it now. What matters is Russ Brandon did the team, and all of us as fans, a service despite great odds against. That needs to be acknowledged.

 

And now, it has been: he runs the Sabres too.

Edited July 31, 2015 by OCinBuffalo

[DrDawkinstein]

Basic marketing rears its head: by your own admission, you never met a Canadian fan who was unaware of it. I bet you'd have been hard-pressed to find anyone in Ontario who was unaware of it. And awareness is marketing job #1.

 

Awareness, followed by supporting interest, and then asking for the sale, is how you increase revenue. This is community college level stuff.

 

Brandon, besieged as he was in 2008 with an elderly, way past his prime, owner, no clear vision for the team's future, potential chaos looming with his owner's death, and with many hostile team owners against, did something nobody expected, and won with it.

 

It doesn't matter whether any of us were angry with it, or are over it now. What matters is Russ Brandon did the team, and all of us as fans, a service despite great odds against. That needs to be acknowledged.

 

And now, it has been: he runs the Sabres too.

 

But, but, but... Aaron Maybin!

[May Day 10]

huh? Aaron Maybin?

 

 

Anyways, Im wrong. Didnt attend community college. 100% of the 9% of Canadian Season Ticket holders were directly thanks to the Toronto games. No other factors were necessary or applicable.

[Kirby Jackson]

huh? Aaron Maybin?

 

 

Anyways, Im wrong. Didnt attend community college. 100% of the 9% of Canadian Season Ticket holders were directly thanks to the Toronto games. No other factors were necessary or applicable.

I don't think that anyone said that it was 100%; you are taking the stance that it is 0%. The reality is that the number is somewhere between.

[May Day 10]

that is what I was saying.... its in between and there are many factors that are glossed over when people give the 11%-20% figure (I actually thought I heard 17% somewhere but I could be wrong and cant find it)

 

And the amount of other people the series p*&&^d off is also a factor. I know 3 people who cancelled their seasons. I was in the process of purchasing club seats when the announcement came down with the Wilson PC and I bailed on the ticket rep and provided that as a reason (a few years later I 'inherited' a rockpile seat from a friend).

 

I still think the #1 motivation was the cash.

 

 

Its all past history though. I'm fine with everything in Bills-land at this point, and that includes Brandon or whoever... even in the overlord position. This discussion has no relevance, really.

 

 

I kind of wish they would change Billy Buffalo though

 

 

Things are awesome

 

Edited July 31, 2015 by May Day 10

[PromoTheRobot]

 

But, but, but... Aaron Maybin!

Duh..duh...duh...Dick(less) Jauron.

[May Day 10]

Graham strongly pointed the finger at Jauron in the Maybin article, didnt he?

[Kirby Jackson]

that is what I was saying.... its in between and there are many factors that are glossed over when people give the 11%-20% figure (I actually thought I heard 17% somewhere but I could be wrong and cant find it)

 

And the amount of other people the series p*&&^d off is also a factor. I know 3 people who cancelled their seasons. I was in the process of purchasing club seats when the announcement came down with the Wilson PC and I bailed on the ticket rep and provided that as a reason (a few years later I 'inherited' a rockpile seat from a friend).

 

I still think the #1 motivation was the cash.

 

 

Its all past history though. I'm fine with everything in Bills-land at this point, and that includes Brandon or whoever... even in the overlord position. This discussion has no relevance, really.

 

 

I kind of wish they would change Billy Buffalo though

That is a pretty terrible mascot.

 

The move was certainly about cash. It was a short term and long term play. The short term aspect was to offset the rising nonshared revenues that teams were developing with all of the new stadiums popping up. This number was driving the cap and the Bills had to be able to close the gap between their nonshared revenue and the rest of the league. It was not an easy task at RWS (especially before the renovations).

 

The 2nd part was the further regionalization of the fanbase. The Bills were not previously allowed to market in Southern Ontario. The teams rights stopped at the border and everything funneled through "NFL Canada" form there. The Bills (Russ in particular) fought hard to be allowed to market the Bills there as it was within their region (despite crossing the border). That is why a lot of this didn't happen sooner. As a result the Bills have seen roughly a 9% increase (or whatever number) in ticket holders from that region. It is impossible to know the direct impact but there is certainly an impact.

[bbb]

That press conference with Ralph and Rogers, mocking out Buffalo, and pumping up Toronto about their cranes and how people will be paying $200 to be across the street from Skydome - seems like a million years ago now! (it was such a helpless feeling for a Buffalonian then)

[OCinBuffalo]

That press conference with Ralph and Rogers, mocking out Buffalo, and pumping up Toronto about their cranes and how people will be paying $200 to be across the street from Skydome - seems like a million years ago now! (it was such a helpless feeling for a Buffalonian then)

Means to an end. And yes, in business, the ends, more often than not, and despite what the average know-nothing-about-business clown says, almost always justify the means, financially, ethically, all. It's called: owners and stockholders. They require, what they require, but they want trouble even less. Brandon, like many others, has to walk a fine line, and I respect him as much as I do any other highly effective executive.

 

But, that doesn't mean I won't B word when he Fs up: I hate the "new" rules about the game and parking, because I think it was more about punishing the fans for the Bills failures as a team. He should have got up there and started with: "The team has sucked for 12 years, and that's on us, we need to stop sucking. As a result of sucking, we have a bit of a fan behavior problem...".

 

As angry as I am about that, I still see the big picture: hauling in tons of cash from Toronto was the shot in the arm the Bills needed. It led to us having the cash on hand, by the book, as Ralph has always been, to sign Mario.

[BADOLBILZ]

at the same time the increase was happening, the Canadian dollar was strengthened. Is that not a factor at all? Only factor was that sham game?

 

 

 

Actually the increased number of Canadian season ticket holders doesn't take into account the longtime Canadian Bills fans who dropped their season tickets during that period because the team was sh*t on the field.

 

Face it.....it was almost impossible for the Bills to fail to make inroads in Ontario by playing a regular season game in Toronto every year. They couldn't have played much worse in Toronto if they tried so the fact that they didn't LOSE Canadian fans is proof that it worked.

[beerme1]

I guess we have to see what the position entails to really make judgement. It seems like it may meld sometime into a PS&E Overlord who oversees the new football stadium, possible sports network, Bills, and Sabres. Wouldnt be shocked to see a "president" of each the Bills and Sabres in the next 5 years.

 

 

I hope as a Sabres fan that they dont lose the engagement with fans. They asked us, we said Kevin Sylvester is awful, and they immediately stopped grooming him for the heir apparent to RJ and took him off the broadcasts. We hated the 3rd jersey, they turfed it. Ted Black met with Season Ticket holders before home games (I was selected this year for one). It was great, we were treated very well, he spoke about the organization and gave insight people dont typically get... he took questions and gave honest answers, Girgensons came in to thank us, gave away auto'd jerseys, they provided snax & beer, gave us visiting team's family tix as upgrades, etc... It has been great. Many people complained about concessions... now they are much more friendly and efficient (while it took me almost a whole quarter to get pizza logs made for me at a Bills game last year with no line).

 

On the flip side, I dont feel nearly as engaged as a Bills fan. Maybe a case of the Pegulas continuing to take over

 

 

LOL I was at that meet the pres. Or at least I was at one where Girgensons came in and Elliot Friedman was there also. Same one? In fact I won the autographed Zemgus jersey.

That, and free beer!

[QCity]

Every time I hear this I laugh. The Bills, and specifically Russ Brandon, raped Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment on that deal. That was a pure cash play, and we got the better end, far and away, which is why they extended it at first.

 

And, it acheived another stated, and obvious goal: Canadian ticket sales have now increased from 11% to 20%. It was merely one more tactic that suports Brandon's regionalization strategy. Why the F would anybody complain about a business guy doing a business guy deal, and that business deal working as designed?

 

However, and this is pure speculation on my part, but...try and find a hole in it, the Toronto series had a stealth objective as well.

 

You can see it based on the behavior of Jerry Jones. Prior to Pegula, Jerry Jones was the best indicator of whether something the Bills were doing was good for them, because it was bad for him, and he'd publicly complain. Why? Jerry Jones is overextended financially. It's gotten so bad, that Cowboys home games: aren't. And here. And here.

 

For Jones, everything now is about valuation. Wins and losses don't even matter. His debt to equity ratio is king. His equity has to be valued high enough, to prevent the banks he's borrowed from foreclosing on him. Therefore, in addition to crazy ticket prices, Jerry Jones requires 2 things:

1. Every other team in the NFL has to have a high enough appraised value, to make the Cowboys claims of their valuation feasbile to their creditors. If any team is sold for less than what Jerry Jones says is market price, he's in trouble.

2. Jerry Jones needs every NFL team to be making as much revenue as possible, therefore, more revenue goes to him when it is shared. All small market teams reduce the potential Cowboys revenue, and so he wants to either eliminate them, or, force them to increase their revenue significantly.

 

This is why Jerry Jones bitched when the Toronto deal was first signed. This is why he called Bon Jovi a "great husband and father". This is why Donald Trump got involved. All of it was to make sure that the Bills were: sold for a high price, and, either moved to Toronto to guarantee more revenue, or, owned by somebody who Jerry was sure would generate more revenue. That's why: the minute Pegula stepped up and said he'd pay top $ for the Bills, Jerry shut his mouth, and both Bon Jovi and Trump were left twisting in the wind. (Although I remain convinced that Trump was merely doing the NFL a favor by being a stalking horse, gaining forgiveness for his USFL sins, and gaining the option to buy a team in the future)

 

But, Jerry Jones was outfoxed by Russ Brandon long before this, with the Toronto series. Jones bitches about revenue sharing: the Bills go out and bring in a cash windfall. What can Jerry say? That was the stealth objective: counter Jones's narrative, and thereby, weaken his credibility with the other owners. Brandon was, and now is, able to snag Toronto revenue, while keeping the team in Buffalo. At the time it was the last thing Jones wanted.

 

This is all confirmed by the fact that Jones hasn't said a damn thing about the Bills since Pegula made his bid. As I said, this is all speculation, but, where am I going wrong/what's a more likely explanation?

Not when your job, as stated, is to be the business guy. Tim Murray and Doug Whaley are, in both title and fact, responsible for Ws. Russ Brandon is responsible for $. Period. Again, why are we bitching about a guy outperforming expectation in his assigned role?

 

 

Russ traded wins for cash, and you've talked yourself into thinking it was a good thing? We sold a freaking home game. We became the laughingstock of the league - a dysfunctional organization that was the punchline to jokes across the nation. Free agents perceived us as a team that was committed to profits over success on the field (and who could blame them). Russ managed to take an unattractive destination for free agents, and somehow, someway, he made it even more undesirable to play here. Good luck trying to calculate the lost opportunity cost of that, best to probably ignore it, huh? What about all the fan anguish and uneasiness it generated locally? Do we have any figures or metrics that show how negatively this idea hurt local ticket sales? I don't recall RB ever releasing that data. Bah, who cares about that anyway, I'm sure that 11% - 20% bump in Canadian sales easily replaced the disenchanted locals. So, yeah, it was pretty much the worst marketing decision in the history of this franchise (even worse than the Whammy Weenie).

 

Aside from buying the team, the two greatest things the Pegula's have done so far are 1) cancelling that abortion of a series and 2) completely marginalizing Brandon's duties. And yes, he has been marginalized. A president that doesn't have the coach or GM reporting to him is a president in name only - it's an empty title. His value at OBD was so cherished that Terry basically said, "Hey, why don't you just split time downtown? You can be 'president' over there too." It's not like the Sabres need help, they just played their worst two seasons in franchise history back-to-back and they still sellout every game with 96% season ticket holder retention.

 

Anyways, this is truly a win-win situation. Russ gets to play "president," and we don't have to worry about him hiring any future coaches or GMs. I look forward to his updates on the facilities at St John Fisher, any new additions to the Sabres' locker room, and how Dinosaur Bar-B-Que is coming along.

 

Huzzah.

[OCinBuffalo]

 

2) completely marginalizing Brandon's duties. And yes, he has been marginalized. A president that doesn't have the coach or GM reporting to him is a president in name only - it's an empty title. His value at OBD was so cherished that Terry basically said, "Hey, why don't you just split time downtown? You can be 'president' over there too." It's not like the Sabres need help, they just played their worst two seasons in franchise history back-to-back and they still sellout every game with 96% season ticket holder retention.

Yeah um, when I say "know-nothing-about-business" clowns?

 

Object lesson.

 

Marginalized. Do you know what that word means? How marginalized can you be, as a president, if you are now responsible for 2 divisions of the business(and make no mistake, that's precisely the organizational structure now), instead of one?

 

Holy Inigo Montoya. Look up the word marginalized in the dictionary.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Russ traded wins for cash, and you've talked yourself into thinking it was a good thing? We sold a freaking home game. We became the laughingstock of the league - a dysfunctional organization that was the punchline to jokes across the nation. Free agents perceived us as a team that was committed to profits over success on the field (and who could blame them). Russ managed to take an unattractive destination for free agents, and somehow, someway, he made it even more undesirable to play here. Good luck trying to calculate the lost opportunity cost of that, best to probably ignore it, huh? What about all the fan anguish and uneasiness it generated locally? Do we have any figures or metrics that show how negatively this idea hurt local ticket sales? I don't recall RB ever releasing that data. Bah, who cares about that anyway, I'm sure that 11% - 20% bump in Canadian sales easily replaced the disenchanted locals. So, yeah, it was pretty much the worst marketing decision in the history of this franchise (even worse than the Whammy Weenie).

 

Aside from buying the team, the two greatest things the Pegula's have done so far are 1) cancelling that abortion of a series and 2) completely marginalizing Brandon's duties. And yes, he has been marginalized. A president that doesn't have the coach or GM reporting to him is a president in name only - it's an empty title. His value at OBD was so cherished that Terry basically said, "Hey, why don't you just split time downtown? You can be 'president' over there too." It's not like the Sabres need help, they just played their worst two seasons in franchise history back-to-back and they still sellout every game with 96% season ticket holder retention.

 

Anyways, this is truly a win-win situation. Russ gets to play "president," and we don't have to worry about him hiring any future coaches or GMs. I look forward to his updates on the facilities at St John Fisher, any new additions to the Sabres' locker room, and how Dinosaur Bar-B-Que is coming along.

 

Huzzah.

Of all of the thoughts on the topic on this board to date this is without question the furthest off base. Clearly some people (still) do not understand the role. The president's job is revenue & to carry out the owner's wishes. I know that people cringe hearing it but the job has ZERO to do with wins and losses. Obviously everyone's job is easier when you are winning but if you are depending on team record to hit you revenue goals you are USELESS as a sports executive.

 

Two different billionaires have greatly expanded his role after having him as an employee.

 

-I don't know where to begin. The Bills signed their biggest FA in franchise history during this "undesirable" period.

 

-He was instrumental in the hiring of Rex and will be instrumental in the hiring of any future GM, coach, executive, etc... A president is the owner's right hand man. Whether you like the guy or not not one cares. If you think that he is bad at his job you clearly don't understand what the job entails. RB is one of the most respected sports business executives in the country. We are fortunate to have him steering the ship. The Pegula's understand this after working with him and after speaking with people around sports.

 

For me the frustration on all of these "hot takes" comes from the sheer ignorance of some. It is okay to be ignorant on a topic but it's strange to have such strong opinions on something that you clearly know nothing about. That happens all of the time on this topic.

 

The Bills & Sabres are probably the 2 most recognizable WNY businesses (or at least 2 of them) & probably have a combined 300-350 employees (including players). That doesn't even include the rest of the burgeoning Pegula Sports & Entertainment empire of which, after the Pegulas, he is the top guy.

[May Day 10]

 

 

LOL I was at that meet the pres. Or at least I was at one where Girgensons came in and Elliot Friedman was there also. Same one? In fact I won the autographed Zemgus jersey.

That, and free beer!

Same one!

[BADOLBILZ]

Yeah um, when I say "know-nothing-about-business" clowns?

 

Object lesson.

 

Marginalized. Do you know what that word means? How marginalized can you be, as a president, if you are now responsible for 2 divisions of the business(and make no mistake, that's precisely the organizational structure now), instead of one?

 

Holy Inigo Montoya. Look up the word marginalized in the dictionary.

 

He wasn't marginalized but he lost A LOT of power within the organization.

 

First when the Pegula family bought the team.

 

Having actual functional ownership was inevitable going to do that because Russ had near owner-like authority.

 

But next was entirely pulling his influence from football ops. That was TBD when Pegulas bought team and they made that decision pretty quickly.

 

From what I understand RB had grown to like that football influence. What marketer doesn't want to influence production of the item they sell? People poo-pooing the loss of that authority are a bit naiive.

 

The Pegulas were already looking for a football czar to make certain the football ops were going in the right direction but Doug Marrone walking out on the organization definitely hurt RB chances of getting any influence back in football operations.

 

As for being given the Sabres duties, they obviously like Brandon but it's not like they are giving him a big promotion, it is One Buffalo or bust now.

 

It's been in the works for a while and the employees both downtown and in OP have all been wondering who is going to become duplicitous.

 

The Pegulas have been very careful to treat everyone as gently as possible in the process but the gameplay is to create synergy and the truth is that the offices of both organizations can be run by one set of people.

 

They are both seasonal operations and they host a total of around 50 games per year combined it's not like running a MLB team and a NBA team simultaneously.

 

From RB perspective he wasn't going to get any more power elsewhere....getting the Sabres gig at the same time still gives him a better job than he could get with any other NFL team and he gets to stay in place.