Kelly the Dog Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 So it comes down to "atmospheric conditions" vs. human involvement. Let's take it to court, subpoena Brady's phone records, and the two former employees and let the chips fall where they may based on that outcome. GO BILLS!!! That's what most people are missing. That cannot happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 He's discounting the fact that there is zero chance Brady takes this to court outside of a procedural case and I think the Nfl is on pretty solid ground in that area. So do a lot of legal experts that have chimed in. It's an excellent article as far as laying out the legal avenues and how it would work. It discounts a lot of the real world elements. Furthermore if Brady was innocent nothing the nfl could have possibly leaked would change his response or tactic whatsoever "Zero chance"? Please. The chances of him going that route aren't 100 percent, but they are FAR higher than zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 It would be an extraordinarily Billsy outcome: Brady being able to come back juuuuust in time to play us. Yes, the fact that they're playing us (again) with a long week to prepare just doesn't seem like quite enough advantage for those a-holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 There are two sides to the discovery process, you know. Part of that discovery process will involve the NFL's communications with Wells. The NFL shouldn't fear any discovery in that regard if what their case is based on means anything. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 That's what most people are missing. That cannot happen. You're assuming that there are smoking guns in his texts. I wouldn't assume that at all. There certainly aren't any in the Wells reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 That's what most people are missing. That cannot happen. Which is why I think the SI outline, while interesting, is ultimately flawed. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The NFL shouldn't fear any discovery in that regard if what their case is based on means anything. GO BILLS!!! They should definitely fear discovery because of the leaked false report about "significant" deflation. That is not a small thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 All it takes is one item like this to discredit the league in a court of law. If the league in fact leaked false information to the most prominent NFL reporter for the nation's most prominent sports news source -- and it certainly appears that they did -- that ain't going to look good. if you want to dismiss that, well, I don't know what to say. McCann's larger point about both sides facing serious risks if this escalates strikes me as inarguable. I agree that neither side wants to go to court, especially now that Brady has gone under oath and could be tried for perjury. But seriously, one game? even if you discount the scientific evidence of the Wells report (I personally will take the findings of two separate independent labs) the circumstancial evidence of guilt is overwhelming. I think you can argue that the penalty is too stiff (previous penalties were fines), but I would give two games, at minimum, for the blatant lying, not cooperating with the investigation and the bitching to the media that we saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 "Zero chance"? Please. The chances of him going that route aren't 100 percent, but they are FAR higher than zero. They are zero. There is zero chance in a Championship Game this guy did what he did all on his own meaning McNally. Zero. There is Zero chance Mother Nature did what it did to the Patriot balls. All of them would be somewhat similar readings because all of them started the same. And they were wildly different. And one was 2 pounds under It's like when Jose Canseco came out with all those accusations. I said at the time there was zero chance he just made that all up about guys he never saw do drugs. Zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I feel like I'm having a long discussion with a lynch mob. I think Brady is quite possibly guilty, but I certainly don't think the evidence is particularly strong. Everyone hates Brady so much that they're looking past the weaknesses in the league's case and in the Wells report. Don't be shocked if this gets knocked down to one game, and for that one game to be assessed against a failure to cooperate rather than cheating with the PSI levels. Why is Brady being penalized anyway? According to the rule book, this is a team penalty, not an individual player penalty, and the stated penalty is $25K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Right, but that article still uses facts to explain why these defense tactics would be justified. Trying to claim that it was all Mother Nature's fault doesn't seem like a good defense for Brady. Maybe the author shouldn't have included that possibility. Good defense, no. But it's just one of the things they can try to blame it on in conjuncture with other factors. It's not really about proving innocence on there part but just disproving guilt. "Well the patriots were on the field longer than the colts during the first half of the game and the balls were used more which increased their rate of PSI loss" Like I said, not a good defense but they can string stuff together well enough I'm sure to make it plausible. That's what lawyers do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 You're assuming that there are smoking guns in his texts. I wouldn't assume that at all. There certainly aren't any in the Wells reports.Not at all. I am betting that under oath with threat of jail, McNally and Jastremskis testimony will be wildly different than it was to Wells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'm predicting the outcome will be the Bills will be suspended for the first 4 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I feel like I'm having a long discussion with a lynch mob. I think Brady is quite possibly guilty, but I certainly don't think the evidence is particularly strong. Everyone hates Brady so much that they're looking past the weaknesses in the league's case and in the Wells report. Don't be shocked if this gets knocked down to one game, and for that one game to be assessed against a failure to cooperate rather than cheating with the PSI levels. Why is Brady being penalized anyway? According to the rule book, this is a team penalty, not an individual player penalty, and the stated penalty is $25K. That statement was wrong in that article. It is no less than 25k. A big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 They should definitely fear discovery because of the leaked false report about "significant" deflation. That is not a small thing. I disagree. The leaked report about significant deflation FAR predates the Wells report and it's subsequent findings. One would have to show that the earlier leak prejudiced Wells as a result. Given his emphasis on the human factor in his report, I think that's a high bar to reach. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Espn legal analysts don't think it would be very wise for Brady to go to court @MikeReiss: ESPN legal analysts Lester Munson & Roger Cossack answer, "What happens if Brady doesn't get desired appeal result?" http://t.co/J5L0oF8UHV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I feel like I'm having a long discussion with a lynch mob. I think Brady is quite possibly guilty, but I certainly don't think the evidence is particularly strong. Everyone hates Brady so much that they're looking past the weaknesses in the league's case and in the Wells report. Don't be shocked if this gets knocked down to one game, and for that one game to be assessed against a failure to cooperate rather than cheating with the PSI levels. Why is Brady being penalized anyway? According to the rule book, this is a team penalty, not an individual player penalty, and the stated penalty is $25K. He's being penalized for not fully cooperating in a league investigation. I won't be shocked by anything that comes out of this, either. I've suspected all along the penalty would be AT LEAST reduced to two games. I'm only asserting that the AEI and Science Forum reports only attack the Wells report on the atmospheric aspects of the case when the human involvement and its suggestions of conspiratorial actions by those named bears far more weight. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I feel like I'm having a long discussion with a lynch mob. I think Brady is quite possibly guilty, but I certainly don't think the evidence is particularly strong. Everyone hates Brady so much that they're looking past the weaknesses in the league's case and in the Wells report. Don't be shocked if this gets knocked down to one game, and for that one game to be assessed against a failure to cooperate rather than cheating with the PSI levels. Why is Brady being penalized anyway? According to the rule book, this is a team penalty, not an individual player penalty, and the stated penalty is $25K. The severity of the penalty must speak to their conviction. They truly believe Brady cheated. What was the stated penalty for head-hunting (Bountygate)? Was it suspending the HC for a year? That's an honest question I don't know. Obviously, each case is unique and the penalties should vary based on the circumstances. Equating Favre's case to Deflategate is wrong because one was off-the-field (no cheating implied) and the other on-the-field (cheating implied). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I feel like I'm having a long discussion with a lynch mob. I think Brady is quite possibly guilty, but I certainly don't think the evidence is particularly strong. Everyone hates Brady so much that they're looking past the weaknesses in the league's case and in the Wells report. Don't be shocked if this gets knocked down to one game, and for that one game to be assessed against a failure to cooperate rather than cheating with the PSI levels. Why is Brady being penalized anyway? According to the rule book, this is a team penalty, not an individual player penalty, and the stated penalty is $25K. I don't see how you think it's weak. We have video evidence of the balls being taKen away. You have the equipment managers talking about taking bribes. You have a guy named The Deflator. You have evidence of Brady lying about knowing McNally. You have reassurance after the fact, showing cognizence of guilt. You have the equipment guys getting fired by their own team. You don't need a smoking gun when the level of proof you need is "probably" FWIW, this is an article written by a former investigator. He seems to think the Wells report was well put together and honest:http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2015/5/12/8592785/the-wells-report-as-reviewed-by-a-former-investigator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 He's being penalized for not fully cooperating in a league investigation. I won't be shocked by anything that comes out of this, either. I've suspected all along the penalty would be AT LEAST reduced to two games. I'm only asserting that the AEI and Science Forum reports only attack the Wells report on the atmospheric aspects of the case when the human involvement and its suggestions of conspiratorial actions by those named bears far more weight. GO BILLS!!! agreed. If he had cooperated and admitted to deflating the balls to his liking, 25k fine, and it's over. Imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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