Tired of Deflategate

[The Wiz]

I feel like I'm having a long discussion with a lynch mob. I think Brady is quite possibly guilty, but I certainly don't think the evidence is particularly strong. Everyone hates Brady so much that they're looking past the weaknesses in the league's case and in the Wells report. Don't be shocked if this gets knocked down to one game, and for that one game to be assessed against a failure to cooperate rather than cheating with the PSI levels. Why is Brady being penalized anyway? According to the rule book, this is a team penalty, not an individual player penalty, and the stated penalty is $25K.

The team was penalized and accepted it. Brady was penalized and is appealing it. They were both penalized for "obstruction to the case" but Brady is also being penalized on the Wells report.

[Kelly the Dog]

In a court the NFl will also be able to ask what "The Deflator" name means as well as McNally texting Jastremski in the middle of a game and instructing him to deflate. Something Wells was not allowed to do. Or why McNally gave three different answers to why he took the balls into the bathroom. No chance the Pats want this stuff out

[K-9]

Espn legal analysts don't think it would be very wise for Brady to go to court

 

@MikeReiss: ESPN legal analysts Lester Munson & Roger Cossack answer, "What happens if Brady doesn't get desired appeal result?" http://t.co/J5L0oF8UHV

This is why I feel the SI article falls short.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[LeGOATski]

That statement was wrong in that article. It is no less than 25k. A big difference.

That's true. It's advantageous for a corporation to be as vague as possible. That way, depending on the unique circumstances of a case, they can come down as hard as they want.

This is why I feel the SI article falls short.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Could it's flaws be rooted in the fact that it's author is from Massachusetts?

In a court the NFl will also be able to ask what "The Deflator" name means as well as McNally texting Jastremski in the middle of a game and instructing him to deflate. Something Wells was not allowed to do. Or why McNally gave three different answers to why he took the balls into the bathroom. No chance the Pats want this stuff out

But this is Brady. Not the Pats. Right? Could the Pats turn on Brady if he draws them further into the fold? I would like that... Edited June 23, 2015 by LeGOATski

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't see how you think it's weak. We have video evidence of the balls being taKen away. You have the equipment managers talking about taking bribes. You have a guy named The Deflator. You have evidence of Brady lying about knowing McNally. You have reassurance after the fact, showing cognizence of guilt. You have the equipment guys getting fired by their own team. You don't need a smoking gun when the level of proof you need is "probably"

 

FWIW, this is an article written by a former investigator. He seems to think the Wells report was well put together and honest:http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2015/5/12/8592785/the-wells-report-as-reviewed-by-a-former-investigator

That's a very good article. I read the full report too but have no science or legal background. The extent of the investigation however was extraordinary. The AEI and Science News did 1% of what Exponent and the Princeton climate guy did.

[K-9]

That's true. It's advantageous for a corporation to be as vague as possible. That way, depending on the unique circumstances of a case, they can come down as hard as they want.

 

Could it's flaws be rooted in the fact that it's author is from Massachusetts?

Confirmation bias should always be considered but, again, it's the continued emphasis on the "atmospheric conditions" and air pressure and nothing else that continues to be missed by AEI and others that Brady has commissioned reports from. This continued ignoring of the human factor involved only serves to draw more intention to it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

That's true. It's advantageous for a corporation to be as vague as possible. That way, depending on the unique circumstances of a case, they can come down as hard as they want.

Could it's flaws be rooted in the fact that it's author is from Massachusetts?

But this is Brady. Not the Pats. Right? Could the Pats turn on Brady if he draws them further into the fold? I would like that...

He just won't do it. He knows better than anyone what really happened. Even Bellicheat doesn't believe him according to a recent report.

[KDIGGZ]

I have a feeling he gets away with it and has 0 games missed. there is no prior precedent and no rule that says if you lie about deflating footballs then you get suspended. i don't think this will hold up

[Kelly the Dog]

Confirmation bias should always be considered but, again, it's the continued emphasis on the "atmospheric conditions" and air pressure and nothing else that continues to be missed by AEI and others that Brady has commissioned reports from. This continued ignoring of the human factor involved only serves to draw more intention to it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I think you're overestimating the human factor which is only half of it. Vincent made that pretty clear.

 

The atmospheric stuff really doesn't make sense. Even AEI's conclusions. They tested balls by putting them in refrigerators and the like. But if atmospheric conditions caused it the Pats balls would be close to each other and they were wildly different. They all started exactly the same.

[thebandit27]

I think people are forgetting that Brady was suspended just as much for failure to cooperate as he was for being culpable in the act of deflating the footballs.

 

There's no way this gets reduced to zero games without him surrendering his picked-through correspondence, which he isn't likely to do.

[dave mcbride]

In a court the NFl will also be able to ask what "The Deflator" name means as well as McNally texting Jastremski in the middle of a game and instructing him to deflate. Something Wells was not allowed to do. Or why McNally gave three different answers to why he took the balls into the bathroom. No chance the Pats want this stuff out

That's why Brady presumably doesn't want to go to court. But he has a weapon: discovery of NFL internal correspondence regarding the initial false leaks to Mortonsen. No, that has nothing to do with the Wells report, but that's irrelevant. If it were to go to Court, the Wells report wouldn't be the only issue covered. It's obvious that Brady's team would go after the league on related issues, including internal texts and emails. If it's sauce for the goose, it's sauce for the gander too.

I think people are forgetting that Brady was suspended just as much for failure to cooperate as he was for being culpable in the act of deflating the footballs.

 

There's no way this gets reduced to zero games without him surrendering his picked-through correspondence, which he isn't likely to do.

I get all of that, although as Dog alluded to earlier, if the kickers did nothing wrong, they didn't deserve to be penalized for refusing to share texts. And they weren't. If Brady gets the penalty vacated because of significant-enough doubts about his guilt, the precedent with the kickers' lack of a penalty becomes a problem for the league.

Edited June 23, 2015 by dave mcbride

[Kelly the Dog]

That's why Brady presumably doesn't want to go to court. But he has a weapon: discovery of NFL internal correspondence regarding the initial false leaks to Mortonsen. No, that has nothing to do with the Wells report, but that's irrelevant. If it were to go to Court, the Wells report wouldn't be the only issue covered. It's obvious that Brady's team would go after the league on related issues, including internal texts and emails. If it's sauce for the goose, it's sauce for the gander too.

Of course. But it has nothing at all to do with his guilt or innocence and likely nothing to do with his cooperation.

[Nanker]

I would love for him to sue The League and spend millions on his defense team.

[K-9]

I think you're overestimating the human factor which is only half of it. Vincent made that pretty clear.

 

The atmospheric stuff really doesn't make sense. Even AEI's conclusions. They tested balls by putting them in refrigerators and the like. But if atmospheric conditions caused it the Pats balls would be close to each other and they were wildly different. They all started exactly the same.

It only seems like I'm overestimating it because I point out that others don't mention it at all or give it short shrift when they do.

 

The actions of McNally, Jastremski, and Brady and the appearances those actions gave to the Wells investigation in drawing their logical conclusions relative to those actions, are what undermine Brady's entire defense. It's no wonder that the reports commissioned by Brady's team don't seek to mention those actions at all.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[dave mcbride]

Of course. But it has nothing at all to do with his guilt or innocence and likely nothing to do with his cooperation.

I have NO idea if he has texts showing his guilt. If he does, he presumably would never take this to court. But he did speak under oath today, and that means he can be charged with perjury if this ever goes to trial. Speaking under oath isn't important in the context of the hearing itself, but it's hugely important -- and potentially indicative -- if he goes to the courts following an adverse ruling.

[Kelly the Dog]

I have NO idea if he has texts showing his guilt. If he does, he presumably would never take this to court. But he did speak under oath today, and that means he can be charged with perjury if this ever goes to trial. Speaking under oath isn't important in the context of the hearing itself, but it's hugely important -- and potentially indicative -- if he goes to the courts following an adverse ruling.

I don't know this. When I say zero I know in the 99.99% certainty. I understand you don't believe I know and that is fine. You're a very smart independent thinker.

 

What I believe happened today is that Brady would have no qualms lying under oath. He knows for sure it's never going to court. So he will say I don't know how it happened. I had nothing to do with it. It's a total lie but no chance it could bite him further.

[dave mcbride]

He just won't do it. He knows better than anyone what really happened. Even Bellicheat doesn't believe him according to a recent report.

You do realize the source of that report was the one and only Ron Borges, right?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Borges

 

"Borges' hostile opinions have frequently earned him criticism. He has severely criticized Bill Belichick; some media figures, including Bill Simmons, have asserted that this is because Borges relied on former quarterback Drew Bledsoe, benched and traded by Belichick, as his primary source of Patriots information."

 

"On March 4, 2007, Borges was caught in plagiarism allegations after an online reader on ESPN.com's New England Patriots message board revealed that there were extensive similarities between a March 4 article by Borges in the Boston Globe and a February 25 article written by sportswriter Mike Sando of the Tacoma News Tribune.^[6] On March 5, Borges was suspended for plagiarism by the Globe, without pay, and barred from broadcast appearances for two months."

 

Simply put: consider the source.

I don't know this. When I say zero I know in the 99.99% certainty. I understand you don't believe I know and that is fine. You're a very smart independent thinker.

 

What I believe happened today is that Brady would have no qualms lying under oath. He knows for sure it's never going to court. So he will say I don't know how it happened. I had nothing to do with it. It's a total lie but no chance it could bite him further.

He could be a Lance Armstrong/A-Rod type. I'm not denying that possibility. I just don't know.

[K-9]

That's why Brady presumably doesn't want to go to court. But he has a weapon: discovery of NFL internal correspondence regarding the initial false leaks to Mortonsen. No, that has nothing to do with the Wells report, but that's irrelevant. If it were to go to Court, the Wells report wouldn't be the only issue covered. It's obvious that Brady's team would go after the league on related issues, including internal texts and emails. If it's sauce for the goose, it's sauce for the gander too.

It's not irrelevant at all. Was the Wells report prejudiced by Mortonsen's report? Were the analyses conducted by Exponent and Dr. Marlowe?

 

You are right about the Wells report not being the only issue covered. It will be the thousand plus pages of supporting documentation that accompanies that report. As the Buffalo Rumblings link pointed out earlier, the Wells report is nothing more than a summary.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Nanker]

Pete Rose lied under oath and he's still getting the screws put to him to this day.

[truth on hold]

So the NFL spends $5 million for a report the findings of which it may not be able to enforce? Wow that goodell is bumbler.

 

NFL RUMORS: New England Patriots QB Tom Brady Could Be Back For Week One Thanks To An Injunction?

 

"I think Roger Goodell is in a very difficult spot here going forward," Schefter said. "I know that the league has taken a stand on all these cases and we've seen him weigh his [power] in all these cases, but I think this is a case somehow, someway, they've invested a lot in terms of the Wells Report. It cost the NFL upwards of $5 million for the Wells Report and we've seen the American Enterprise Institute and Science Times blow holes in it."

 

http://www.hngn.com/articles/103424/20150623/nfl-rumors-new-england-patriots-qb-tom-brady-could-be-back-for-week-one-thanks-to-an-injunction.htm