More Good PR For Florida State QB's

[DerekJ]

There's a difference between defending one's self and retaliation.

 

He decked her because he was pissed; not because he felt threatened.

 

Pretty clear that both should be charged. He's a scumbag, though.

No....he decked he because she raised her fist to him immediately and he grabbed her arm to prevent her swinging and she immediately swung with her other fist, followed immediately by his response. She started a sequence of events that would lead any reasonable person in that circumstance to conclude that it was to continue. Look at the video. She immediately took umbrage to him bumping into her and became aggressive. Add to that that she was probably drunk and you have a pretty good case of self defense, IMO.

[Gugny]

No....he decked he because she raised her fist to him immediately and he grabbed her arm to prevent her swinging and she immediately swung with her other fist, followed immediately by his response. She started a sequence of events that would lead any reasonable person in that circumstance to conclude that it was to continue. Look at the video. She immediately took umbrage to him bumping into her and became aggressive. Add to that that she was probably drunk and you have a pretty good case of self defense, IMO.

 

So you think that that young girl posed a threat to this guy? He could have pushed her away. He could have walked away. He chose to punch a girl in the face. An unarmed, petite girl.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

So you think that that young girl posed a threat to this guy? He could have pushed her away. He could have walked away. He chose to punch a girl in the face. An unarmed, petite girl.

He shouldn't have hit a female. He deserves to be off the team.

 

But she punched him. Why is that ok? Because she's a female? If it was a male who punched him & he hit him back, that's cool right? Why is it ok for a female to go around punching people? If she's Ronda Rousey, is it ok?

 

He made his bed and did something dumb. But she face consequences too. Everyone is going to point to his upbringing. What about a sloppy drunk chick who thinks its ok to punch someone?

[Kelly the Dog]

He shouldn't have hit a female. He deserves to be off the team.

But she punched him. Why is that ok? Because she's a female? If it was a male who punched him & he hit him back, that's cool right? Why is it ok for a female to go around punching people? If she's Ronda Rousey, is it ok?

He made his bed and did something dumb. But she face consequences too. Everyone is going to point to his upbringing. What about a sloppy drunk chick who thinks its ok to punch someone?

Not every punch thrown by anyone really deserves an automatic result. It's all about the context. I was the manager of a bar in Buffalo, Gabels, that had barroom brawls every weekend and was a couple blocks from a police station. The cops would wait until the brawl was over, walk up to the bar, and ask the bartenders and patrons, "Alright, who was the ****?" It didn't matter who started it or who finished it or guy or girl or anything but usually there was one **** and everyone would point to that person."

 

This is a weird case because of guy and girl. But if it happened in Gabels, myself and I imagine most people there would say, "Both of them!" And the cops would cart both away.

 

I'm sure some would say the guy, because you never punch a girl, and some would say the girl because she started it. But they were clearly both in the wrong.

[DerekJ]

 

So you think that that young girl posed a threat to this guy? He could have pushed her away. He could have walked away. He chose to punch a girl in the face. An unarmed, petite girl.

You misstate what I said. He has a legitimate self-defense argument. Petite or not (didn't seem so petite, but that's immaterial), she assaulted him first. Having a vagina does not give you license to clobber someone else.

[Gugny]

He shouldn't have hit a female. He deserves to be off the team.

 

But she punched him. Why is that ok? Because she's a female? If it was a male who punched him & he hit him back, that's cool right? Why is it ok for a female to go around punching people? If she's Ronda Rousey, is it ok?

 

He made his bed and did something dumb. But she face consequences too. Everyone is going to point to his upbringing. What about a sloppy drunk chick who thinks its ok to punch someone?

 

It's not okay ... hence me saying she should be charged.

 

Just because someone hits a person, it's not automatically justified to punch them in the face.

 

My nephew is a little schit. When he was about 11, he slapped me in the back so hard that it took my breath away. Hurt like absolute hell. I yelled at him. I didn't punch him in the face.

 

This scumbag had a lot of options. He chose to punch a small woman - who had nothing in her hands (bottle, knife, gun, bat), in the face.

[Cynical]

Watch the video again.

Yes, please do.

 

She barrels into the guy on her right at the bar,

Yeah, she just crushes that poor guy. I am shocked he held his composure.

 

Take your own advice. Watch the video again.

 

while Johnson is trying to get the other woman to move. He doesn't acknowledge the blonde, but she's certainly keen on making sure he's aware that she's there. Her entire body language is all about confrontation.

Not helping your position at all.

 

He clearly lost control, but let's not give blondie a pass for creating the situation

I am going to ask for clarification:

 

Example:

• Person A is standing somewhere.
• Person B comes up behind person A
• B bumps/jostles A.
• A informs B they were there first.
• B shoves A.

It's A fault for being shoved because they created the confrontation by informing B they were there first?

[Kelly the Dog]

I am going to ask for clarification:

 

Example:

 

• Person A is standing somewhere.
• Person B comes up behind person A
• B bumps/jostles A.
• A informs B they were there first.
• B shoves A.

It's A fault for being shoved because they created the confrontation by informing B they were there first?

You make a good point. But I think you should swap A with B and B with A.

[GG]

You make a good point. But I think you should swap A with B and B with A.

 

Well, if you want to be cynical about it. Maybe the video was in reverse and in negative?

[Jauronimo]

Yes, please do.

 

Yeah, she just crushes that poor guy. I am shocked he held his composure.

 

Take your own advice. Watch the video again.

 

Not helping your position at all.

 

I am going to ask for clarification:

 

Example:

• Person A is standing somewhere.
• Person B comes up behind person A
• B bumps/jostles A.
• A informs B they were there first.
• B shoves A.

It's A fault for being shoved because they created the confrontation by informing B they were there first?

At what point does A rooster her fist and call B a f@#$ing n@#$% in this hypothetical? Seems like you glossed over a few minor details.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Well, if you want to be cynical about it. Maybe the video was in reverse and in negative?

I was thinking more like A stood for **** and B for B word.

[John from Riverside]

He shouldn't have hit a female. He deserves to be off the team.

 

But she punched him. Why is that ok? Because she's a female? If it was a male who punched him & he hit him back, that's cool right? Why is it ok for a female to go around punching people? If she's Ronda Rousey, is it ok?

 

He made his bed and did something dumb. But she face consequences too. Everyone is going to point to his upbringing. What about a sloppy drunk chick who thinks its ok to punch someone?

Actually....I would have liked to see him do this to Rousey......that would be entertainment.

 

A scumbag like this wouldnt have even tried it though

[Cynical]

At what point does A rooster her fist and call B a f@#$ing n@#$% in this hypothetical? Seems like you glossed over a few minor details.

 

Yeah, you're right. I also forgot to add where A bulldozes C with the express intent of having B bump into A, so A can turn around and confront B.

 

Therefore, it's not Bs fault, because A was the aggressive one.

 

Also, I have never denied she said something to him. IMO, his reaction had more to do with what she said, than her fist.

[Punching Bag]

Oh, you mean his attempt to slide by her, which was hindered by her excessive weight? I'm sure it wasn't the first time someone couldn't get by her, she should be used to it. Stop being a "White Knight" and watch what happened. If this was a guy, he would have been in jail right along with him.

"hindered by her excessive weight"? So she was taking up to much space? What did she do, turn you down for a date?

[Rob's House]

I wonder how it would be perceived if the exact same interaction took place between me and Mario Williams (with me being the chick and Mario being the dude). And to clarify, I'm about as big of a threat to Mario as that chick is to the QB.

"hindered by her excessive weight"? So she was taking up to much space? What did she do, turn you down for a date?

She wasn't what I'd call petite, but I'd still got it. No pun intended.

[KD in CA]

I wonder how it would be perceived if the exact same interaction took place between me and Mario Williams (with me being the chick and Mario being the dude). And to clarify, I'm about as big of a threat to Mario as that chick is to the QB.

 

Apparently most of the Neanderthals in this thread would cheer wildly if in respond to a verbal confrontation, Mario suddenly grabbed your wrists, refused to release you and then attempted to knock you out with a right cross when you tried to release yourself by pawing at him with a half-arm 'punch'.

 

 

Boy, next time someone wonders why athletes get preferential treatment for criminal offenses, all they need to do is read this embarrassing thread.

[Jauronimo]

 

Yeah, you're right. I also forgot to add where A bulldozes C with the express intent of having B bump into A, so A can turn around and confront B.

 

Therefore, it's not Bs fault, because A was the aggressive one.

 

Also, I have never denied she said something to him. IMO, his reaction had more to do with what she said, than her fist.

I don't see how objecting to your curious framing of events translates to absolving Johnson of all wrong doing, but your ability to comprehend grows increasingly suspect with each passing post.

 

I can agree with that, which is why I don't think he can claim self-defense, even by Wayne Arnoldian standards, and is in the wrong.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Jauronimo

[Wayne Arnold]

He shouldn't have hit a female. He deserves to be off the team.

 

But she punched him. Why is that ok? Because she's a female? If it was a male who punched him & he hit him back, that's cool right? Why is it ok for a female to go around punching people? If she's Ronda Rousey, is it ok?

 

He made his bed and did something dumb. But she face consequences too. Everyone is going to point to his upbringing. What about a sloppy drunk chick who thinks its ok to punch someone?

 

It's ok from a legal standpoint because she was acting in self-defense. Why is this so difficult for some of you to grasp? He was creating apprehension by invading her space in the form of reaching for her arm and clutching it against her will. By definition, that is assault. And that was before his punch even occurred.

 

Look - no one thinks this girl is an angel on Earth. My daughters are both under 5 but 15 years from now I'll show them this video as a demonstration for how to not act in bars.

 

And I think it speaks volumes that no one here has been able to give me an answer as to what she could possibly be charged with.

[LB3]

 

It's ok from a legal standpoint because she was acting in self-defense. Why is this so difficult for some of you to grasp? He was creating apprehension by invading her space in the form of reaching for her arm and clutching it against her will. By definition, that is assault. And that was before his punch even occurred.

 

Look - no one thinks this girl is an angel on Earth. My daughters are both under 5 but 15 years from now I'll show them this video as a demonstration for how to not act in bars.

 

And I think it speaks volumes that no one here has been able to give me an answer as to what she could possibly be charged with.

Disorderly conduct.

[Jauronimo]

 

It's ok from a legal standpoint because she was acting in self-defense. Why is this so difficult for some of you to grasp? He was creating apprehension by invading her space in the form of reaching for her arm and clutching it against her will. By definition, that is assault. And that was before his punch even occurred.

 

Look - no one thinks this girl is an angel on Earth. My daughters are both under 5 but 15 years from now I'll show them this video as a demonstration for how to not act in bars.

 

And I think it speaks volumes that no one here has been able to give me an answer as to what she could possibly be charged with.

He clutched her arm when she raised her fist. Then she hit him with her other fist.

 

So its your contention that the next time someone brushes passed me at a bar to get a drink that raising my fist and escalating the situation is both reasonable and self-defense? Have you ever been in a bar? Have you ever been in public?

[Rob's House]

FL Statute

 

784.011 Assault.

(1) An assault is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

(2) Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

[Kelly the Dog]

FL Statute

784.011 Assault.

(1) An assault is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

(2) Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

Perhaps her being so wasted may have prevented her "apparent ability to do so."

[Wayne Arnold]

He clutched her arm when she raised her fist. Then she hit him with her other fist.

 

So its your contention that the next time someone brushes passed me at a bar to get a drink that raising my fist and escalating the situation is both reasonable and self-defense? Have you ever been in a bar? Have you ever been in public?

 

So when a woman or anyone else raises her arm to point at the person behind her, it's officially open season on her face?

 

I can't wait for the next time a person waves at me. According to a couple of people on this forum I'm going to be within my legal right to grab his/her arm, clutch it until he/she is able to defend and get away then I'm going to bash his/her face in because it looked like the person was about to slap me!

[Luxy312]

The video speaks for itself. He started the whole thing by initiating physical contact and pushing into her physical space like she wasn't even there. If she dropped the "F.N." bomb on him while raising her fist, that certainly wouldn't have helped the situation. It would have been putting proverbial gasoline on a candle. Not good!

For me though, I don't care who you are or what your stature is. Once you throw a punch, you're putting yourself in a position where there can be repercussions. Just where do you draw the line? Is it OK for a 100 pound woman to hit a 250 pound man in the face? What about a 150 pound man? What about a little dude hitting a big dude? At the the end of the day, that old biblical passage that "violence begets violence" applies. My view of the video is that he started it, she escalated it quickly and he escalated it again to conclusion.

[Jauronimo]

 

So when a woman or anyone else raises her arm to point at the person behind her, it's officially open season on her face?

 

I can't wait for the next time a person waves at me. According to a couple of people on this forum I'm going to be within my legal right to grab his/her arm, clutch it until he/she is able to defend and get away then I'm going to bash his/her face in because it looked like the person was about to slap me!

Is that what happened and did I f@#$ing say anything of the sort?

 

I can't wait for the next time someone says you to "get off me you f@#$ing n@#$%" and cocks a fist in your face and you treat that situation as the aggressor waving at someone behind you.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Jauronimo

[BuffaloHokie13]

 

So when a woman or anyone else raises her arm to point at the person behind her, it's officially open season on her face?

 

I can't wait for the next time a person waves at me. According to a couple of people on this forum I'm going to be within my legal right to grab his/her arm, clutch it until he/she is able to defend and get away then I'm going to bash his/her face in because it looked like the person was about to slap me!

So you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he knew she was pointing with her thumb and not making a fist?

[John from Riverside]

He clutched her arm when she raised her fist. Then she hit him with her other fist.

 

So its your contention that the next time someone brushes passed me at a bar to get a drink that raising my fist and escalating the situation is both reasonable and self-defense? Have you ever been in a bar? Have you ever been in public?

Actually.....I am wonder how this did not escalate really quickly in the bar when he punched her like that......

 

In the bars I have been to this would have gotten ugly quick

[Wayne Arnold]

So you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he knew she was pointing with her thumb and not making a fist?

 

I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. Since Johnson is the one who invaded her space by grabbing her wrist, Johnson's lawyers have to prove that she was acting with the intent to harm him. And since her arm/fist never moved forward, that will be extremely difficult to do.

[Jauronimo]

Actually.....I am wonder how this did not escalate really quickly in the bar when he punched her like that......

 

In the bars I have been to this would have gotten ugly quick

I'm wondering how a thin black dude and chubby blonde girl ever got into it in the first place. This might be the first documented instance of discord between the two camps.

 

I'm pretty sure you have it backwards. Since Johnson is the one who invaded her space by grabbing her wrist, Johnson's lawyers have to prove that she was acting with the intent to harm him. And since her arm /fist never moved forward, that will be extremely difficult to do.

I don't think the tuck rule is applicable in US Courts, Matlock.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Jauronimo

[Kelly the Dog]

I'm wondering how a thin black dude and chubby blonde girl ever got into it in the first place. This might be the first documented instance of discord between the two camps..

Well that's totally false. I think it was Chris Rock who wisely stated a black dude will do any white chick.

[Jauronimo]

Well that's totally false. I think it was Chris Rock who wisely stated a black dude will do any white chick.

You should read that post again.

[KD in CA]

I'm wondering how a thin black dude and chubby blonde girl ever got into it in the first place. This might be the first documented instance of discord between the two camps.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

You should read that post again.

Lol. My bad. I got outraged at the thought of the first sentence. Ha.

 

I take it back. That's a good point, jauronimo. Well done.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Kelly the Dog

[DerekJ]

I'm wondering how a thin black dude and chubby blonde girl ever got into it in the first place. This might be the first documented instance of discord between the two camps.

 

I shouldn't laugh at that but you just made me spit my coffee.

[Cynical]

I don't see how objecting to your curious framing of events translates to absolving Johnson of all wrong doing, but your ability to comprehend grows increasingly suspect with each passing post.

 

I can agree with that, which is why I don't think he can claim self-defense, even by Wayne Arnoldian standards, and is in the wrong.

 

Have you read all of his posts? IMO, he's quite clear in his position. Here some snippets:

 

• Don't know if people watched the same video that I saw, but to me it was clear that she was the instigator. (I think his position is pretty clear)
• She then takes another step to the left ensuring more intentional contact with him, (more intentional contact, implying she's doing it on purpose)
• But let's not pretend that he wasn't provoked not just by some sassy language. (Yes, cause words themselves have never set off a bar fight)
• She barrels into the guy on her right at the bar (1. He calls that a "barrel". Please, she touches him, even unintentionally bumps the guy, but "barrel"? 2. So what. What does that have to do with her confrontation with the QB who was behind her and on her left? Unless he's trying to prove and reinforce the woman's aggressive and instigating behavior)
• she's certainly keen on making sure he's aware that she's there (She says something to the QB after being bumped by him, so yeah, she's purposely being confrontational and aggressive)
• but let's not give blondie a pass for creating the situation. (Again, I think he is stating his position pretty clearly)

 

Yes, he admits Johnson lost control, but apparently, that was caused by her physical instigating behavior, and not because he was

a drunken idiot who reacted poorly to being insulted.

 

So if I am not comprehending something, consider me a sponge. Learn me.

[C.Biscuit97]

Actually....I would have liked to see him do this to Rousey......that would be entertainment.

 

A scumbag like this wouldnt have even tried it though

That's kinda my point John. Is Rousey allowed to hit a man & not get a consequence? Because you're right, she would probably knock that guy out.

 

This kid did one of the lowest things possible and he got a very severe consequence. As he should. But this girl threw a punch and got nothing. And I'm guessing it's not her first time doing it.

 

As a man if you throw a punch, you should be prepared for a punch back. But a woman shouldn't be allowed to assault a man either. If he walks away after she hits him, does she face a consequence? I'm guessing no and that's not right either.

[Jauronimo]

 

Have you read all of his posts? IMO, he's quite clear in his position. Here some snippets:

 

• Don't know if people watched the same video that I saw, but to me it was clear that she was the instigator. (I think his position is pretty clear)
• She then takes another step to the left ensuring more intentional contact with him, (more intentional contact, implying she's doing it on purpose)
• But let's not pretend that he wasn't provoked not just by some sassy language. (Yes, cause words themselves have never set off a bar fight)
• She barrels into the guy on her right at the bar (1. He calls that a "barrel". Please, she touches him, even unintentionally bumps the guy, but "barrel"? 2. So what. What does that have to do with her confrontation with the QB who was behind her and on her left? Unless he's trying to prove and reinforce the woman's aggressive and instigating behavior)
• she's certainly keen on making sure he's aware that she's there (She says something to the QB after being bumped by him, so yeah, she's purposely being confrontational and aggressive)
• but let's not give blondie a pass for creating the situation. (Again, I think he is stating his position pretty clearly)

 

Yes, he admits Johnson lost control, but apparently, that was caused by her physical instigating behavior, and not because he was

a drunken idiot who reacted poorly to being insulted.

 

So if I am not comprehending something, consider me a sponge. Learn me.

I responded to you and your example. I don't care what he said outside of what you immediately responded to.

 

In your example you framed "get off me you f@#$ing n@#$$" and cocking her first back, as "A informs B they were there first." I think your position is pretty clear based on that interpretation. When I objected, you accused me of absolving Johnson of his actions which is totally incorrect.

 

Suggesting that she was the instigator does not absolve Johnson. Any attempt to read that in to my post is wrong. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Johnson is still in the wrong as he grabs her arm and helps to escalate the situation after she "informs [him] that she was there first". Johnson is in the wrong when he takes a step back to line that girl up which had everything to do with anger, in my opinion, and nothing to do with any particular fear for his safety.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Jauronimo

[C.Biscuit97]

Not every punch thrown by anyone really deserves an automatic result. It's all about the context. I was the manager of a bar in Buffalo, Gabels, that had barroom brawls every weekend and was a couple blocks from a police station. The cops would wait until the brawl was over, walk up to the bar, and ask the bartenders and patrons, "Alright, who was the ****?" It didn't matter who started it or who finished it or guy or girl or anything but usually there was one **** and everyone would point to that person."

 

This is a weird case because of guy and girl. But if it happened in Gabels, myself and I imagine most people there would say, "Both of them!" And the cops would cart both away.

 

I'm sure some would say the guy, because you never punch a girl, and some would say the girl because she started it. But they were clearly both in the wrong.

Agree with this. Personally, I've never had a problem with a fair (same sex, sad that I have to even say that) fist fight. A big problem in this country is there are too many cowards who can't fight but get tough because they have a weapon.

[White Linen]

That's kinda my point John. Is Rousey allowed to hit a man & not get a consequence? Because you're right, she would probably knock that guy out.

 

This kid did one of the lowest things possible and he got a very severe consequence. As he should. But this girl threw a punch and got nothing. And I'm guessing it's not her first time doing it.

 

As a man if you throw a punch, you should be prepared for a punch back. But a woman shouldn't be allowed to assault a man either. If he walks away after she hits him, does she face a consequence? I'm guessing no and that's not right either.

 

Excellent post

[Wayne Arnold]

I'm wondering how a thin black dude and chubby blonde girl ever got into it in the first place. This might be the first documented instance of discord between the two camps.

I don't think the tuck rule is applicable in US Courts, Matlock.

 

lol nicely done