Doc Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 It was OT money in year one - but a couple of years later it's OG money. The market went up. No, it's top LT money. Again Levitre made almost $20M the past 2 years counting SB and salary. Even if he sticks this year, it's almost $8.7M/year. For where he's rated, and it's not even in the middle-third, it was a bad deal and a good move for the Bills not to re-sign him, or at the least, a lucky move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 The Bills could look at bringing Andy and Jairus back when they are cap casualties. We could use some depth at both positions. Doug seems to pick his battles well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 This is really all that needs to be said. The Bills in the Littman-Overdorf era were very good at examining individual players in a vacuum, determining their market worth without regard to the rest of the roster or how losing that player would be compensated for. Team-building is a skill that was sorely lacking. I continue to have my concerns about Whaley in this regard (scout vs. architect/GM) but am trying to be patient. I think Bill, John and you have put a fine point on it in succession. Good organizations have good systems in place and they do not make decisions in a vacuum. Lot's of good teams let excellent players go in FA but team building is a process. You don't allow yourself to go from excellent to bottomed out at a position over a contract that features a $10M signing bonus. Paying the going rate is the unfortunate COST of not making good decisions. That problem has traditionally started on draft day. When you draft to fill needs you often end up using key picks on players at positions you wouldn't want to pay top dollar for in that vacuum. Like guard. Or RB. Or.....in the Bills case.....CB. I think you could succinctly say that making decisions in a vacuum is why they have sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I think Bill, John and you have put a fine point on it in succession. Good organizations have good systems in place and they do not make decisions in a vacuum. Lot's of good teams let excellent players go in FA but team building is a process. You don't allow yourself to go from excellent to bottomed out at a position over a contract that features a $10M signing bonus. Paying the going rate is the unfortunate COST of not making good decisions. That problem has traditionally started on draft day. When you draft to fill needs you often end up using key picks on players at positions you wouldn't want to pay top dollar for in that vacuum. Like guard. Or RB. Or.....in the Bills case.....CB. I think you could succinctly say that making decisions in a vacuum is why they have sucked. No, in this new era, it's mostly because they haven't found a franchise QB. It's a passing league and the consistently good teams have good QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I don't see how that's all that different from my assessment. A guy with good fundamentals and about average physical ability for an NFL starter - above average quickness, average to below average strength). We could squabble over the margins, but the disparity between our assessments isn't so glaring that it rises to the level of knee slapping condescension. IIRC, Badol's big on treating people on the board the way you would in person. If that's how he truly acts in person I imagine he has few friends and even fewer teeth. I've tailgated numerous times and watched a game with him last year and he's a great guy, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I don't think anyone can deny that the Bills have been bad at team building over the years of the drought, from Donahoe through Levy and the Brandon caretaker era. Nix I think had less of a "decisions in a vacuum" mentality albeit he still made some personnel mistakes and then Whaley to me very much has a plan. The decision not to sign Levitre was always one that was going to split people down the middle it was a lot of money but at the same time he was a key part of a line that had generally played pretty well. Interestingly though a lot of the people who argued against letting Levitre walk also argued against letting Byrd walk which for me was an absolute no brainer of a decision. If anything Whaley got the use of the tag wrong and should have tagged Levitre and let Byrd walk a year earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I don't think anyone can deny that the Bills have been bad at team building over the years of the drought, from Donahoe through Levy and the Brandon caretaker era. Nix I think had less of a "decisions in a vacuum" mentality albeit he still made some personnel mistakes and then Whaley to me very much has a plan. The decision not to sign Levitre was always one that was going to split people down the middle it was a lot of money but at the same time he was a key part of a line that had generally played pretty well. Interestingly though a lot of the people who argued against letting Levitre walk also argued against letting Byrd walk which for me was an absolute no brainer of a decision. If anything Whaley got the use of the tag wrong and should have tagged Levitre and let Byrd walk a year earlier. Well, they also had a replacement on the roster for Byrd in Aaron Williams. What was Plan B when Levitre walked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Well, they also had a replacement on the roster for Byrd in Aaron Williams. What was Plan B when Levitre walked? Ummm... Chas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I know this...if he is released because of his contract and being moved to bench I would welcome him back with open arms...... He can literally play 3 different positions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I know this...if he is released because of his contract and being moved to bench I would welcome him back with open arms...... He can literally play 3 different positions He used to be able to. If he is still healthy he would be a great versatile backup and test Incognito. He hasn't seemed to play well at all lately though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Well, they also had a replacement on the roster for Byrd in Aaron Williams. What was Plan B when Levitre walked? Indeed. The guy they tabbed to start was off the team by week 3 or 4 and then they started Legursky who they signed as a back up centre. I didn't hate the decision not to pay Levitre but I didn't love it either.... it would look a lot less bad had they not totally whiffed on replacing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Hey, what's Jairus Byrd up to these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Interestingly though a lot of the people who argued against letting Levitre walk also argued against letting Byrd walk which for me was an absolute no brainer of a decision. Well, I am proud to say that I was NOT one of those that you mention above. Trust me. But it IS worthy to note that Whaley seemed to be trying VERY hard to keep Byrd. Do you recall this? I think that Whaley got lucky wrt Byrd. Maybe I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Well, I am proud to say that I was NOT one of those that you mention above. Trust me. But it IS worthy to note that Whaley seemed to be trying VERY hard to keep Byrd. Do you recall this? I think that Whaley got lucky wrt Byrd. Maybe I'm wrong. He was but not at that price Byrd wanted and could get on open market. So they decided to lock up Aaron Williams instead. Proved to be a great decision both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 He was but not at that price Byrd wanted and could get on open market. So they decided to lock up Aaron Williams instead. Proved to be a great decision both ways. Yea. They wanted Byrd back but they had a price they were not for budging from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Yea. They wanted Byrd back but they had a price they were not for budging from. I believe thats how it went down, also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I don't mind rough discourse at all. Quite the contrary. Unwarranted condescension just rubs me the wrong way. What's the difference between "unwarranted" and "warranted" condescension? Not trying to be antagonistic. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 What's the difference between "unwarranted" and "warranted" condescension? Not trying to be antagonistic. Just curious. You may not agree, and others may not agree, and I understand that point of view, but I always thought one of this site's great entertainment value is the smack downs and snarkiness and you have to have some tough skin to post here. Again it's not everyone's cup of tea but a rite of passage is being insulted by DC, who is smarter than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 He was considered by most here to be a guy on the edge of the pro bowl and possible he could cross that threshold soon.Given that, he would still reasonably be just inside the top 10. If I recall you yourself, who I hold as one of the more balanced posters, had him around the 7-10 range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I don't think anyone can deny that the Bills have been bad at team building over the years of the drought, from Donahoe through Levy and the Brandon caretaker era. Nix I think had less of a "decisions in a vacuum" mentality albeit he still made some personnel mistakes and then Whaley to me very much has a plan. The decision not to sign Levitre was always one that was going to split people down the middle it was a lot of money but at the same time he was a key part of a line that had generally played pretty well. You make an incisive point regarding the old guard regime to the new regime starting with Nix to the Whaley era. I wasn't enamored with Buddy but I give him credit and acknowledge that he had an understanding on how to build a roster. He represented the line of demarcation from the anachoristic way of running a franchise to a more modern approach. He wasn't always right with his decisions (no one is) but he had a clue. As you noted Whaley is more conceptual and forward-thinking in his approach to building a roster. I also have issues on some of his personnel and drafting decisions but overall he has a more modern approach to the GM position compared to the befuddled old guard in the last stages of the Wilson/Littman era. You may not agree, and others may not agree, and I understand that point of view, but I always thought one of this site's great entertainment value is the smack downs and snarkiness and you have to have some tough skin to post here. Again it's not everyone's cup of tea but a rite of passage is being insulted by DC, who is smarter than you. Saying someone is smarter than I am is not a major accomplishment or necessarily a compliment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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