White Linen Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 No one wants to come to Buffalo with the crazy weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whites Bay Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 We need a new stadium with a retractable roof in the middle of downtown and all will be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 You may not find a link and I don't usually play this card but trust me on this. The sponsorship dollars for the same assets that they get is insane. A lot of it is buried in random assets and promos. Part of it was the Toronto payments so take that for what it's worth. Without those numbers though Littman would have NEVER approved the level of spend over the last decade +. I am not saying that it was all spent well but I promise this is the root of it. FWIW, I'm told he is the closer. He makes it go with his nonstop sales culture. He is really well respected in sports. I'm sure he is respected. But I'm betting the 78 million (plus whatever the second Toronto contract paid the Bills) accounts for the vast majority of unshared money since those deals were struck. Take away that soul selling move and you are left with sponsorship contracts with Tim Hortons and the like. I don't see marketing genius there--simply doing the job of signing up regional advertisers/sponsors. The shared revenue alone in the NFL is more than 50 million greater than the salary cap, so I think Littman had plenty of change to spare even without the Toronto deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I'm sure he is respected. But I'm betting the 78 million (plus whatever the second Toronto contract paid the Bills) accounts for the vast majority of unshared money since those deals were struck. Take away that soul selling move and you are left with sponsorship contracts with Tim Hortons and the like. I don't see marketing genius there--simply doing the job of signing up regional advertisers/sponsors. The shared revenue alone in the NFL is more than 50 million greater than the salary cap, so I think Littman had plenty of change to spare even without the Toronto deal. Littman's equation of what could be spent was tied to the revenue. Obviously the Toronto deal was a lot. Russ is very well respected as a sports marketer. There aren't 5 people that I know of that are looked at more favorably than him in all of sports. Doc Sutton at UCF is kind of the godfather and there are some others (Ie Scott O'neill that was at MSG) that are in the same league. RB is on the high, high end of the NFL (which is the worst of the sports business operations). He's good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Littman's equation of what could be spent was tied to the revenue. Obviously the Toronto deal was a lot. Russ is very well respected as a sports marketer. There aren't 5 people that I know of that are looked at more favorably than him in all of sports. Doc Sutton at UCF is kind of the godfather and there are some others (Ie Scott O'neill that was at MSG) that are in the same league. RB is on the high, high end of the NFL (which is the worst of the sports business operations). He's good I'm not saying he's not respected, but when the league hands you 50 million in profit and gullible Canadian oligarchs hand you maybe another 100 million, you really aren't under pressure to sell anything to make ends meet. Notice how Russ pulled the plug on the Canada pimping a month before the team was on the market. No way a new owner would be OK with that PR disaster. Top 5 ....in all of sports?? Well, I can't challenge that but I'm suspicious that if you polled all presidents of all MLB/NHL/NBA teams as well as the AD's of all Div 1 football and basketball programs, many would not put the president of the Bills in the top 5 of their colleagues (if they could even name him). I would bet they would all be envious of his situation currently and over the past 5 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I'm not saying he's not respected, but when the league hands you 50 million in profit and gullible Canadian oligarchs hand you maybe another 100 million, you really aren't under pressure to sell anything to make ends meet. Notice how Russ pulled the plug on the Canada pimping a month before the team was on the market. No way a new owner would be OK with that PR disaster. Top 5 ....in all of sports?? Well, I can't challenge that but I'm suspicious that if you polled all presidents of all MLB/NHL/NBA teams as well as the AD's of all Div 1 football and basketball programs, many would not put the president of the Bills in the top 5 of their colleagues (if they could even name him). I would bet they would all be envious of his situation currently and over the past 5 years or so. It's not a scientific poll but the people that I worked with at a high level are envious of him. He's really good. The Toronto thing was what is was. It was what the Bills had to do to be able to compete. That isn't what a lot of people wanted but they had to funnel the revenue back to Grosse Pointe to get the okay to spend. It wasn't perfect but from the business side the Bills are really, really, really good. I've seen some terrible operations even with well respected team (the Chicago Bulls). The Bills operation is buttoned up but has some market limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 It's not a scientific poll but the people that I worked with at a high level are envious of him. He's really good. The Toronto thing was what is was. It was what the Bills had to do to be able to compete. That isn't what a lot of people wanted but they had to funnel the revenue back to Grosse Pointe to get the okay to spend. It wasn't perfect but from the business side the Bills are really, really, really good. I've seen some terrible operations even with well respected team (the Chicago Bulls). The Bills operation is buttoned up but has some market limitations. I disagree that the Toronto deal helped the Bills compete. They were not much better after the Rogers' checks cleared than before. Again, the salary cap (and likely the entire team staff expenses) are comped by the NFL. The low debt situation of the Bills historically has made his job a lot easier than many of his colleagues, that's all I'm saying. He didn't even have to line up a naming rights deal. That's a luxury nowadays and symbolic of the fact that the Bills have been clearing significant profits for many years because of their unique situation. There hasn't even been financial pressure to put a decent team on the field. It would be impossible for him to lose money in Buffalo. Russ may be a respected in his circle, but I stand by my assessment of what he has actually produced for the Bills, other than the "most and least significant" that I listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I disagree that the Toronto deal helped the Bills compete. They were not much better after the Rogers' checks cleared than before. Again, the salary cap (and likely the entire team staff expenses) are comped by the NFL. The low debt situation of the Bills historically has made his job a lot easier than many of his colleagues, that's all I'm saying. He didn't even have to line up a naming rights deal. That's a luxury nowadays and symbolic of the fact that the Bills have been clearing significant profits for many years because of their unique situation. There hasn't even been financial pressure to put a decent team on the field. It would be impossible for him to lose money in Buffalo. Russ may be a respected in his circle, but I stand by my assessment of what he has actually produced for the Bills, other than the "most and least significant" that I listed. The point is that the $8M from TO (or whatever it was) bought the Bills an extra $8M in Littman's eyes. He was the hatchet man. It was all tied to the revenue produced and it wasn't easy in WNY to be on a level with everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdaigler Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Oh Lord Will we ever have at least a pretty good quarterback again? Sorry....the Lamonica waste threw me off track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 The point is that the $8M from TO (or whatever it was) bought the Bills an extra $8M in Littman's eyes. He was the hatchet man. It was all tied to the revenue produced and it wasn't easy in WNY to be on a level with everyone else. We will have to agree to disagree on the bolded. That was a story Ralph and therefore Russ told for years, when actually, they were doing just fine--even before the Toronto sublet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) We will have to agree to disagree on the bolded. That was a story Ralph and therefore Russ told for years, when actually, they were doing just fine--even before the Toronto sublet. They were fine. They were hanging near the bottom (but never 32). They bumped up near some teams (like Baltimore) because of their sales talent. The operation at OBD has been better than the operations in a lot of places. Regardless of the things said, there are certain operations that are just better. I used the Bulls as an example earlier but they would die to have the T'Wolves operation. Obviously the Bulls are looked at much more favorably but they would trade their sales staff for Minnesota (or Charlotte) in a second. The Bills group is looked at like that (ironically a former Bills VP is the CMO in Charlotte). There is a difference between good teams and good operations. The Bills have a good operation. Edited June 14, 2015 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 They were fine. They were hanging near the bottom (but never 32). They bumped up near some teams (like Baltimore) because of their sales talent. The operation at OBD has been better than the operations in a lot of places. Regardless of the things said, there are certain operations that are just better. I used the Bulls as an example earlier but they would die to have the T'Wolves operation. Obviously the Bulls are looked at much more favorably but they would trade their sales staff for Minnesota (or Charlotte) in a second. The Bills group is looked at like that (ironically a former Bills VP is the CMO in Charlotte). There is a difference between good teams and good operations. The Bills have a good operation. From Forbes: "The Bills are really hurting when it comes to advertising and sponsorship revenue, generating less than $15 million of revenue–about half of what the Green Bay Packers pulled in–during 2012, placing them in the bottom quartile of the league." Also, I bet almost any NBA team President would likely gladly swap places with any of his NFL counterparts---no guaranteed contracts, overwhelmingly lopsided CBA, massive revenue sharing guaranteeing a profit, ever increasing popularity and TV ratings/merchandise sales. I'm sure they all admire Russ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's in My Blood Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 (edited) Brandon did the best he could with what Ralph gave him to use. He's a bright guy. Marketing/business is his forte and he'll only get better growing with the Pegula's backing him and genuine love for the Bills is unwavering. Edited June 14, 2015 by It's in My Blood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Quint Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Wannstedt should be head coach!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transient Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 We'll be sorry that we didn't draft Clausen. We'll be sorry that we didn't draft Tebow. We would have won by a million points if we'd only started Flutie. Mario Williams is a bum. Ralph has no plan for the Bills when he dies and we're all screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Bills having trouble filling seats - 3rd blackout ...... ....... IMO WRT the T.O. experience - it was a huge failure except to Ralph's pocketbook. it could be me but I'm confident that there was never a true Home Town feel / crowd advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 The guy publicly sold us short. In a time we felt like our region had a tenuous hold on the team. Ill never forgive him for that. Now ticket sales are proving hum and his Slap in the face narrative wrong. The Toronto series is a black eye for me. I am glad he seems to have been relegated to the background out of the public eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Mark my words, Doug Marrone WILL be head coach of the Jacksonville Jaguars by 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 the threat of relocation looms after the pegula's......sound the alarm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Russ Brandon is a sound marketer with a team in a depressed economic area, and still managed to sell over 50,000 season tickets. He made dumb moves when he was involved with the team sports decisions, but as a business, we're fortunate. We finally have a new owner and he was willing to spend for top coaching talent. The Toronto thing made the Bills money, and basically kept the team profitable. I'm glad it's over, but I understood the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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