KD in CA Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 If we look beyond the obvious that no employer is going to be interested in someone who facing potential murder charges... We seem to have not managed to take that first step for most of this thread.... Why would they make an exception for this player that will undoubtedly then be used by every player following him? How many risks do you take with your job that could get you fired? If he ended up charged and convicted, the outcry would be insane. I would have liked the Bills to take the risk, but you can't blame any of the Teams or the NFL for taking a pass. Exactly. Yes it would be nice if this guy could get back some of what he lost if it turns out he's innocent, but that doesn't mean the NFL should set a precedent in this case. You can bet the next guy with some unusual circumstance would be pointing at this example for why he should also get special treatment. Companies set policies for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) You can bet the next guy with some unusual circumstance would be pointing at this example for why he should also get special treatment. It would become a part of the Florida State playbook, undoubtedly... Edited May 4, 2015 by Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 He flat out said he wouldn't sign and who could blame him as it would have gotten him back in the draft next year and it would be that much less time to recoup his losses from this year. I understand that guys sign deals after saying they won't, but in this case, given NFL rules about draft eligibility, he would have been slotted for 7th round money and would have been stuck for three years at that level given the CBA agreement with the NFLPA. Going back into the draft next year would have saved him time and a TON of money. There's just not enough inducement to be made by an NFL team to get him to agree to sign for 7th round money. GO BILLS!!! Short term, yea. but i think a GM could possibly sell him on next year not being a "gimme" that he goes in the top 2 rounds, and that hes passing up a year of earning potential (and pushing his big free agency pay day back). im not saying he WOULD sign, but that there is a chance that by camp his frustration wouldve cooled and the economics wouldnt have looked quite as bad. it could certainly cut either way though. you just dont know. for a 7th though, some would argue him worth the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 We seem to have not managed to take that first step for most of this thread.... Exactly. Yes it would be nice if this guy could get back some of what he lost if it turns out he's innocent, but that doesn't mean the NFL should set a precedent in this case. You can bet the next guy with some unusual circumstance would be pointing at this example for why he should also get special treatment. Companies set policies for a reason. They can easily say, "Okay, if a week before the draft there is a murder and you are completely falsely accused, you can also have an exception. This is a one time exception because of a murder, and cannot be used to plead other extenuating circumstances in the future." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 They can easily say, "Okay, if a week before the draft there is a murder and you are completely falsely accused, you can also have an exception. This is a one time exception because of a murder, and cannot be used to plead other extenuating circumstances in the future." Except it wouldn't be that..any player who gets in trouble..failed drug test, DWI, etc (who knows what agents will come up with to use it) will want the same treatment. Even if the NFL says no to them that this was a special case, they have to deal with all those requests and the agents making it a media issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) If he went back in the draft next season, he would be in the same place regardless. He wouldn't be going very high despite his talent because he would have been out of football for a year (and likely teams being not being enthusiastic about a kid who refused to sign his deal after a team took a huge chance on him). He's going to have to face the reality that he lost 1st round money and it's not coming back. I doubt that would be true in his case, given his ability. And he wouldn't be carrying any baggage in refusing to sign a deal with a club who selected him. No team would be put off at all. Again, given his ability. GO BIlLS!!! so call his bluff - it looks like he might end up signing as a UDFA, so i doubt he'd have been willing to sit out a year. and if it doesnt work out, it doesnt work out, you lose a 7th round pick; whaley himself admitted that this year's late-rounders will probably have a hard time making the team. Call his bluff? He's not risking anything to bluff about. By re-entering the draft next year, he will have sped up the process of recouping his losses from this year by two years. There's no bluff to be called, it's the smart play by the kid, given the circumstances. The ONLY reason he will sign as an UDFA is because, since he wasn't drafted, he CAN'T re-enter the draft next year. His options were limited once he wasn't selected. GO BILLS!!! Edited May 4, 2015 by K-9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 They can easily say, "Okay, if a week before the draft there is a murder and you are completely falsely accused, you can also have an exception. This is a one time exception because of a murder, and cannot be used to plead other extenuating circumstances in the future." There's also the annoying little fact that he (or his agent) basically told everyone "Don't bother drafting me after round 3." Otherwise I might agree with you. But you can't say "Don't draft me!" and expect to be granted special treatment when you're not drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Short term, yea. but i think a GM could possibly sell him on next year not being a "gimme" that he goes in the top 2 rounds, and that hes passing up a year of earning potential (and pushing his big free agency pay day back). im not saying he WOULD sign, but that there is a chance that by camp his frustration wouldve cooled and the economics wouldnt have looked quite as bad. it could certainly cut either way though. you just dont know. for a 7th though, some would argue him worth the risk. Perhaps, but I wouldn't. And given how it turned out, 32 GMs agree with me. GO BILLS!!! There's also the annoying little fact that he (or his agent) basically told everyone "Don't bother drafting me after round 3." Otherwise I might agree with you. But you can't say "Don't draft me!" and expect to be granted special treatment when you're not drafted. ^This. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) They can easily say, "Okay, if a week before the draft there is a murder and you are completely falsely accused, you can also have an exception. This is a one time exception because of a murder, and cannot be used to plead other extenuating circumstances in the future." Except it wouldn't be that..any player who gets in trouble..failed drug test, DWI, etc (who knows what agents will come up with to use it) will want the same treatment. Even if the NFL says no to them that this was a special case, they have to deal with all those requests and the agents making it a media issue. And beyond that....a lawsuit that will need to be defended and in which case it's what a judge says that will matter. "Why is this the line? Why isn't that the line?" "I was accused of rape/armed robbery but I swear I didn't do it." "Why only special treatment for suspected murderers?" There's no upside for the league to break precedent. There's no upside for the league to say or do anything in this case except avoid Collins entirely until his situation changes. Sometimes life isn't fair. It's not the responsibility of the NFL to change that fact of life. Edited May 4, 2015 by KD in CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 There's also the annoying little fact that he (or his agent) basically told everyone "Don't bother drafting me after round 3." Otherwise I might agree with you. But you can't say "Don't draft me!" and expect to be granted special treatment when you're not drafted. I don't think the don't draft me stuff came out until after they denied his request to be put in the supplemental draft, or am I off on the timeline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Except it wouldn't be that..any player who gets in trouble..failed drug test, DWI, etc (who knows what agents will come up with to use it) will want the same treatment. Even if the NFL says no to them that this was a special case, they have to deal with all those requests and the agents making it a media issue. The thing is the NFL can do and say whatever it wants. And in this case they would be right, both in the letter and the spirit of what they did and said. An agent can say all he wants to the press but the player and agent would take the hit in the press not the NFL because they would clearly be trying to get away with something they shouldn't get away with. Everyone would know what a terrible set of circumstances this is, and chances are, whatever the agent is complaining about won't come close to this. I really think they can easily do this, with no repercussions. It's unprecedented for a reason. Not to mention that it is the NFL's stupid rules that caused this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I don't think the don't draft me stuff came out until after they denied his request to be put in the supplemental draft, or am I off on the timeline? This is correct. Barring going into the supplemental draft, the next step was next year's draft. Once he went undrafted that, too, was out of the question. The league has him by the shorties with their draft rules. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I don't think the don't draft me stuff came out until after they denied his request to be put in the supplemental draft, or am I off on the timeline? I'm not assuming the timelines of "how things happened" and "what we heard" are the same thing. Ultimately, I think he got really bad advice from his agent. I still don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy...get a better agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 It was widely initially reported that he might be the father of the child. Link=everywhere. So in other words you lied when you stated as a matter of fact it was his child. Ok thanks playing, credibility lost. (Not that you had any to begin with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwalter Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 this thread has become an enormous headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I'm not assuming the timelines of "how things happened" and "what we heard" are the same thing. Ultimately, I think he got really bad advice from his agent. I still don't have a hell of a lot of sympathy...get a better agent. From what I've read, after they denied his request to be put in the supplemental draft, he said he'd rather wait until next year than play this year if he was drafted after round 3, since he would be taking a big financial hit. From what I've read, he stands to do better financially (long term) as an UDFA than if he were a 4th round pick (assuming he plays well and there is interest in signing him after his 3rd year) and he also gets to choose where he plays. Not sure it was bad advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Okay, trying to get back on topic. It appears that he will be able to sign within the next few days. If the Bills are able to pull that off, then I would view the draft as a huge success. I wanted a QB sure, but they passed on the guys we liked twice and I trust that there is a reason for that. To walk away with a starting G & T was all we really needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Okay, trying to get back on topic. It appears that he will be able to sign within the next few days. If the Bills are able to pull that off, then I would view the draft as a huge success. I wanted a QB sure, but they passed on the guys we liked twice and I trust that there is a reason for that. To walk away with a starting G & T was all we really needed. After the UDFA signings I think we'd have to cut someone first. Maybe Chris Williams for some added cap room as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 From what I've read, after they denied his request to be put in the supplemental draft, he said he'd rather wait until next year than play this year if he was drafted after round 3, since he would be taking a big financial hit. From what I've read, he stands to do better financially (long term) as an UDFA than if he were a 4th round pick (assuming he plays well and there is interest in signing him after his 3rd year) and he also gets to choose where he plays. Not sure it was bad advice. if he plays well enough to get a top tender as an RFA in year 4, he comes out ahead. less money in his pocket short term though. or if hes only "ok" as a player. so hes essentially betting on himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 I read that the league rules for UDFA limits a teams 'bonus' money to 81k per UDFA class. I believe the contract for a UDFA is for the league minimum, teams are not allowed to pay him more or less. (which would put all teams on an equal playing field I believe). So, how much of the 81k have the Bills spent? How much have other teams spent? That is the only leverage they may have over other teams. Hopefully the Bills didnt spend any of that money and can offer this kid all 81 grand to join our squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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