Proteus Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 +1. Obviously And every Off. lineman is one play from retirement. "You can't always get what you want.... but if you try real hard..... you may just get what you need" I think the personnel dept. has almost as much knowledge as Stadium Wall in regards to the talent level of the OL. Every player in the NFL is one play away from retirement. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. I like the Incognito signing, but we need to add another guy who actually played in the league last year and doesn't have a history of being a huge head case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Wow. Can anyone state any opinion about the Bills that questions what they are doing even in the slightest without you throwing a hissy fit and insulting other posters? Increasingly over the years, no. I can live with Cassel. But the interior OL still needs some help and that will mitigate most improvements at the skill positions (and they needed them as well) that they make. We'll have to wait and see what the next level of UFA's, which are now singing, will offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasons1992 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 No, no no. You don't want him. Been watching him here in Cincy for the past few years. No. Gresham would be a fine #2 target for TE in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 We're going to be no better off than the Redskins when Dan Snider bought them. Splashy signings, big named coach, but ignoring the most important aspects of a winning team, a great QB and Chemistry. I know I'm in the minority, but it's hard to get excited about the team with another journeyman QB signing an O-Line completely ignored and only one option considered at TE...which looks the part of a fools plan right now. I hope I am wrong, but if you really take a look at what's under the pretty McCoy paint job, it's still just a pedestrian F250 trying to compete with a field of Porsche's and Ferrari's... I have been this teams biggest cynic and critic for well over ten years and I still am. I have received more hate mail on this board than most have in a life time. But I think you are wrong and I am very excited about 2015. BTW, I was sitting in the rockpile watching this team in 1966, my father in 1960! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 We're going to be no better off than the Redskins when Dan Snider bought them. Splashy signings, big named coach, but ignoring the most important aspects of a winning team, a great QB and Chemistry. I know I'm in the minority, but it's hard to get excited about the team with another journeyman QB signing an O-Line completely ignored and only one option considered at TE...which looks the part of a fools plan right now. I hope I am wrong, but if you really take a look at what's under the pretty McCoy paint job, it's still just a pedestrian F250 trying to compete with a field of Porsche's and Ferrari's... Whaley didn't ignore a QB. There were simply no franchise QBs available. So he did what he could to build up the rest of the team. He resigned Hughes. Since we don't have an elite QB, he traded for an elite RB - we gotta get yards somehow! Then we signed a blocking FB to help create holes for Shady. Whaley hired Rex who should bring our defense to an even higher level. Rex hired Greg Roman who's supposed to be a genius at the run game (which we need) but also salvaged Alex Smith. Whaley signed Incognito, despite his history, because it's imperative we improve our OL. And then there's Percy Harvin who behaved well-enough last year and was signed to a one year trial contract. And now we're going hard after Clay. I'm not sure what else you could have asked Whaley to do. I guess you can blame him for failing to sign Iupati or Beluga but you can't win 'em all. I doubt if Whaley has the scientific expertise to clone Jim Kelly. Other than that, I think he's doing on nice job building the roster this off-season. Maybe our next GM should be a microbiologist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I am not going to praise the Bills for effort, sorry. All I basically said is we need to add a sure fire starter to the offensive line before the draft and if we don't I think it is a failure. If you can't handle that maybe you should hand your computer over to your mommy until you grow up. Have you not been paying attention. Incognito will be the starter at RG. Former Pro-Bowler and a definite upgrade. They have already done what you're saying they need to do. So if they draft another starter at the other Guard position, in addition to all the other moves they have already made, you're saying they failed to improve the team in the offseason? Can't see any logic in your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Increasingly over the years, no. There might be a reason for that... I've been as hard on this team as anyone over the decade plus I've been around here. Read through any of the posts from previous regimes and that can be proven quite easily. I was especially harsh the last few years of Ralph's ownership for reasons that have been batted around forever on here. I hated the Buddy Nix promotion, hated Marv's debacle as GM, hated everything about the Era of terrible coaching hires, and led the charge that it won't matter until we have a QB who can win. Then, something kind of important changed. Like my opinion changes when there is new information. In the past few months we have seen new ownership with deep pockets committed to not only keeping the team in Buffalo, but also to spending money where it counts (coaching, facilities, guaranteed money) along with the first winning record in a decade. We've seen St.Doug (whose offense was the primary reason this team didn't win 10 or 11 games last year) leave and replaced him with the top coaching name on the market. We then added the best coaching staff in the league in terms of assistant coaches and coordinators. We've seen the team make bold moves to improve the RB, OG, and QB positions before UFA even began. Now three days into UFA we are signing anothe playmaker and still have room to add pieces to our line and other areas of need. Forgive me if I don't think now is the time to focus on the pieces that are still missing. Forgive me if I don't think now is the time to gnash my teeth in worry over how this team hasn't gotten better -- it clearly has gotten better from the top on down. Is the job done? No. But if you can't feel good about the direction this team is headed right now, you might have to look inward for answers. Or you might be suffering from JTSP syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaadThingsMan Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I wish they never signed that POS midget. Nothing irks me more then Bills fans who worship that puke100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 . Just saying it's hard to get excited when the car is still missing it's engine. Look, drink the Rex KoolAide, high five each other because he got his tattoo changed to Bills colors and had a truck painted with the team logo...He's a salesmen and you just bought ice for your pool in March... This league is won by coaches smarter than the other guys...Rex is the fun frat boy destined to sell life insurance to his frat buddies - everyone loves him, but, not really going to set the world on fire. That's the domain of the Jimmy Johnsons, Bill Parcells and Chip Kelly's...guys smarter than our lovable frat boy...I am guessing you were not in a 'frat'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) We're going to be no better off than the Redskins when Dan Snider bought them. Splashy signings, big named coach, but ignoring the most important aspects of a winning team, a great QB and Chemistry. I know I'm in the minority, but it's hard to get excited about the team with another journeyman QB signing an O-Line completely ignored and only one option considered at TE...which looks the part of a fools plan right now. I hope I am wrong, but if you really take a look at what's under the pretty McCoy paint job, it's still just a pedestrian F250 trying to compete with a field of Porsche's and Ferrari's... Even though I agree that this could turn out like Dan Snider with the Redkins as it's worse case scenerio I still like it better than having Ralph Wilson run this team. I do think we will see the same issues with our offense that people blamed Marrone for last year. Edited March 14, 2015 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) There might be a reason for that... I've been as hard on this team as anyone over the decade plus I've been around here. Read through any of the posts from previous regimes and that can be proven quite easily. I was especially harsh the last few years of Ralph's ownership for reasons that have been batted around forever on here. I hated the Buddy Nix promotion, hated Marv's debacle as GM, hated everything about the Era of terrible coaching hires, and led the charge that it won't matter until we have a QB who can win. Then, something kind of important changed. Like my opinion changes when there is new information. In the past few months we have seen new ownership with deep pockets committed to not only keeping the team in Buffalo, but also to spending money where it counts (coaching, facilities, guaranteed money) along with the first winning record in a decade. We've seen St.Doug (whose offense was the primary reason this team didn't win 10 or 11 games last year) leave and replaced him with the top coaching name on the market. We then added the best coaching staff in the league in terms of assistant coaches and coordinators. We've seen the team make bold moves to improve the RB, OG, and QB positions before UFA even began. Now three days into UFA we are signing anothe playmaker and still have room to add pieces to our line and other areas of need. Forgive me if I don't think now is the time to focus on the pieces that are still missing. Forgive me if I don't think now is the time to gnash my teeth in worry over how this team hasn't gotten better -- it clearly has gotten better from the top on down. Is the job done? No. But if you can't feel good about the direction this team is headed right now, you might have to look inward for answers. Or you might be suffering from JTSP syndrome. R I'm usually not terribly negative, but I am put off by the pollyanna-ism that's (mostly) dominating the board at present. As of right now, I don't think the team has been improved overall from last season,and the one huge upgrade, Incognito, is problematic because he's a loathsome human being (i don't count McCoy--who is certainly good--as a huge upgrade because of the cost paid for him in terms of both talent and salary). I'm not a fan of the Cassel trade because he isn't any good (and is a downgrade from Orton), and it's worth remembering that the Bills LOST out to the Browns for the services of McCown. One can only assume that MCCown was their first choice (no great shakes either) because they went after him first--unless one is a pollyanna who can rationalize it away by arguing that we were "playing" Cleveland (which is ridiculous, if you think about it) and had a better option in the wings all along. Some here did say essentially that. I wonder if they've watched Cassel in the last three years or so. Also, while I loved the Rex hire, it is the case that he has had 4 straight non-wining seasons and showed the distressing signs of sentimentality, chasing after mediocre Jets offensive players from a terrible offensive team (Powell and in my opinion Harvin, who is overrated). That's heart-on-your-sleeve personnel analysis. I'm not saying a cold blooded approach is always best, and one of Rex's draws is his ability to command loyalty--indeed love--from his players. But their are downsides to this approach too. I wonder what Whaley's role was in keeping Fred, who is simply a better player than Powell. I realize that there is a long way to go in FA. Edited March 14, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) I think we make the assumption the OL is horrible. I take the opposite opinion in that it was horribly coached, being told 3 different things by 3 different people. How does a former OLineman and OLine coach in Marrone spend almost all his time in training camps and practices with them yet they got progressively worse over his 2 years to the point they couldn't even pick up a simple stunt?? According to many, Aaron Kromer is among the best in the business and has a way of getting players to play above their talent level...I think the OL is going to be suprisingly much better this year...I mean the year before this year with many of the same players they were able to run the ball pretty well...its not like they have sucked the whole time... Upgraded RB position, upgraded guard, best FB in the league...still have draft...QB there was little they could do...at this point they are surrounding the QB with talent on both sides of the ball and on special teams...not sure what else we could ask for...its obvious Chandler must not be a fit for Roman's offense, otherwise he would still be here. Edited March 14, 2015 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 when I see them considering a Percy Harvin while pro bowl quality Guards are being traded, I question the motive. Has the look and feel of a sales job...and that's what Rex does. Free agency is about filling needs - I loved acquiring McCoy, but he's going to find the sledding tough without a capable tightend to take the safety and/or LB out of the box and running behind an O-Line best described as being hopeful of improvement. Let's face it, teams will say, go ahead Cassell, EJ, or Taylor - you go ahead and beat us...we're not letting McCoy. Unfortunately, the QB position is such a weakness... I don't necessarily fault Ryan - QBs don't grow on trees, but, I just can't get excited for the reality of what we have... our defense was a top defense last year...and that got us the 9 wins. The offense is marginally better, but are you getting excited about Cassell? And yeah, Chip is an innovator - anyone who was putting up 28 points a game with Sanchise at the helm has got things figured out... Except when playing teams winning records. The Iggles are woeful there. So far Kelly hasn't done much and this is the year to see if he's a genius or a megalomaniac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Except when playing teams winning records. The Iggles are woeful there. So far Kelly hasn't done much and this is the year to see if he's a genius or a megalomaniac. Yeah Sanchise looked awesome against Seattle...Eagles had 149 yards of total offense at home and got beat down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I'm usually not terribly negative, but I am put off by the pollyanna-ism that's (mostly) dominating the board at present. As of right now, I don't think the team has been improved overall from last season,and the one huge upgrade, Incognito, is problematic because he's a loathsome human being (i don't count McCoy--who is certainly good--as a huge upgrade because of the cost paid for him in terms of both talent and salary). I realize that there is a long way to go in FA. There are spots of the idiot poster on this board but by and large have been put in place by the mods and more informed posters. I don't think the percent of such posts have gone up over the years and I am close to being a founding member, As for the off-season, I am surprised that you dont see the team as being better than last season. McCoy, RI certainly improve the corps we had. While it is fair to question the personalities hired (RI, Harvin), in my mind there is a clear upgrade at several positions already. My main worry is if we are stocking up one too many a headcase on the team. I am in favor of team chemistry and not sure if Ryan has enough control to not let the inmates run the asylum, so to speak. Time will tell ofcourse, but the talent upgrade is quite undeniable. Perhaps you are placing too much stock on the inability to get that one great QB ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 There might be a reason for that... I've been as hard on this team as anyone over the decade plus I've been around here. Read through any of the posts from previous regimes and that can be proven quite easily. I was especially harsh the last few years of Ralph's ownership for reasons that have been batted around forever on here. I hated the Buddy Nix promotion, hated Marv's debacle as GM, hated everything about the Era of terrible coaching hires, and led the charge that it won't matter until we have a QB who can win. Then, something kind of important changed. Like my opinion changes when there is new information. In the past few months we have seen new ownership with deep pockets committed to not only keeping the team in Buffalo, but also to spending money where it counts (coaching, facilities, guaranteed money) along with the first winning record in a decade. We've seen St.Doug (whose offense was the primary reason this team didn't win 10 or 11 games last year) leave and replaced him with the top coaching name on the market. We then added the best coaching staff in the league in terms of assistant coaches and coordinators. We've seen the team make bold moves to improve the RB, OG, and QB positions before UFA even began. Now three days into UFA we are signing anothe playmaker and still have room to add pieces to our line and other areas of need. Forgive me if I don't think now is the time to focus on the pieces that are still missing. Forgive me if I don't think now is the time to gnash my teeth in worry over how this team hasn't gotten better -- it clearly has gotten better from the top on down. Is the job done? No. But if you can't feel good about the direction this team is headed right now, you might have to look inward for answers. Or you might be suffering from JTSP syndrome. Good post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I'm usually not terribly negative, but I am put off by the pollyanna-ism that's (mostly) dominating the board at present. As of right now, I don't think the team has been improved overall from last season,and the one huge upgrade, Incognito, is problematic because he's a loathsome human being (i don't count McCoy--who is certainly good--as a huge upgrade because of the cost paid for him in terms of both talent and salary). I'm not a fan of the Cassel trade because he isn't any good (and is a downgrade from Orton), and it's worth remembering that the Bills LOST out to the Browns for the services of McCown. One can only assume that MCCown was their first choice (no great shakes either) because they went after him first--unless one is a pollyanna who can rationalize it away by arguing that we were "playing" Cleveland (which is ridiculous, if you think about it) and had a better option in the wings all along. Some here did say essentially that. I wonder if they've watched Cassel in the last three years or so. Also, while I loved the Rex hire, it is the case that he has had 4 straight non-wining seasons and showed the distressing signs of sentimentality, chasing after mediocre Jets offensive players from a terrible offensive team (Powell and in my opinion Harvin, who is overrated). That's heart-on-your-sleeve personnel analysis. I'm not saying a cold blooded approach is always best, and one of Rex's draws is his ability to command loyalty--indeed love--from his players. But their are downsides to this approach too. I wonder what Whaley's role was in keeping Fred, who is simply a better player than Powell. I realize that there is a long way to go in FA. I mostly post on other boards. Perhaps this one is different. I have not noticed a lot of Pollyanna posters, unless one is going to define those who like the direction Whaley and OBD is taking as inherently Pollyanna. I don't think that's fair. Irrational optimism and rational optimism are not equivalent. If one declares optimism in this case irrational, one is simply begging the question. I like our moves. Most posters I read did not want McCown. He isn't any good. My guess is OBD viewed McCown and Cassel as similar talents. (I personally think Cassel is slightly better. He at least has a few winning seasons in his track record.) Regardless, McCown could have been had for the price of a contract. Cassel required draft picks, so that could easily explain why they went after McCown first, no? What have we done this off-season? We retained Hughes. People seem to gloss over this, but if he had gone elsewhere they wouldn't. Bringing in Felton and Incognito improves the blocking. Bulaga did not want to leave GB. Iupati wanted to stay near the West Coast. I suspect we will bring in more o-line help via free agency, trade, or draft. The real weakness on the team was offense. We replaced Doug Marrone, Nate Hackett, and Pat Morris with Rex Ryan, Greg Roman, and Aaron Kromer. How is that not a significant upgrade? We brought in one of the premier running backs, and added a talented, but character issue playmaker on a one year contract. On paper, few teams have a McCoy, Watkins, and Harvin. That should be hard to game plan for. That should help even a game manager qb. Grade is still incomplete, but I don't see optimism as Pollyanna irrationalism by any stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 (edited) There are spots of the idiot poster on this board but by and large have been put in place by the mods and more informed posters. I don't think the percent of such posts have gone up over the years and I am close to being a founding member, As for the off-season, I am surprised that you dont see the team as being better than last season. McCoy, RI certainly improve the corps we had. While it is fair to question the personalities hired (RI, Harvin), in my mind there is a clear upgrade at several positions already. My main worry is if we are stocking up one too many a headcase on the team. I am in favor of team chemistry and not sure if Ryan has enough control to not let the inmates run the asylum, so to speak. Time will tell ofcourse, but the talent upgrade is quite undeniable. Perhaps you are placing too much stock on the inability to get that one great QB ? Thanks. I do confess to being one of those people who thinks it all comes down to the qb, and the Bills are just so far away. Look at the Steelers ,for instance--they've had some truly mediocre teams overall in the last half decade plus, but they are almost always in it because of the qb. Once every 3-4 years or so they'll go 8-8, and it'll be regarded by their fans as a disaster. Because of the Bills' qb situation, if they go 8-8 (which is what they would have gone last year if the Pats actually tried in the final game) people have visions of the SB next season. It's kind of sad. I for one hope that they draft a qb in either round 2 or 3, and preferably rd 2 if they believe in the player. You can't give up on drafting one just because you think EJ is the guy and it doesn't work out. Anyway, the league is built around qbs, and the Bills currently don't have one. I'm not faulting anyone for not getting one given the offerings, but let's be real -- they're a mediocre team if they go into the season with the qbs they have. Edited March 14, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Does it need repeating again that since Boling's deal, no OL has signed a deal? I wonder why? Oh, check that, Jets decided to bring back Willie Colon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I completely disagree with this original post. Comparing this years Bills to the Redskins is so far off base I'm not even going to get into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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