BillsVet Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I think you're working off a lot of assumptions there. Nix was on his way out that draft. Whaley has an eye for linebacker talent and the "young guns" were allowed to have more of a say in the draft board. Whaley also has 10 years of apprenticeship learning to build a perennial contender in Pittsburgh. When you have a position of strength, you deal players to make other parts of your team stronger. Dealing a young linebacker who has shown something but isn't essential to the team is a classic "Linebacker U" Pittsburgh move. The Bills were a top D with Kiko on reserve/NFI last year, but he played well enough to generate a splash his rookie year (ROY candidate, 3rd in NFL in tackles) making him attractive as a trade candidate. He was especially attractive to his former college coach. You build a team (and a rep as a GM) by making deals that strengthen your team, not getting all "ego" and "emo" about "oh he's my guy, I can't give up on him". Where do you think Roman is in all this, sitting on the sofa eating bon-bons while Rex makes all the decisions he'll have to "ride or die" on? I think Roman, Rex, and Whaley sat down and agreed the team needed a top-tier running back and built a short list of who they wanted both in trade and FA, and a list of acceptable trade bait. Then Whaley took it from there, used his 13 years of contacts, found a deal, and came back to the decision making group (Rex and the Pegulas, maybe Brandon) to get buy-in on the final proposed trade. Well of course I'm making "assumptions." So are you and it's necessary given how none of us are allowed behind closed doors. However, I form my opinion and make "assumptions" based on the actions they've taken. I guess critical thinking dies when confronted with fans who cannot criticize their team under any circumstances. Doug Whaley has become a GM in the mold of Seattle's John Schneider. He doesn't have total personnel control anymore, which I recognize hits to the core of those who don't focus on the inner-workings of the front office. But the relationship between GM's and HC's is rapidly changing in the NFL and Buffalo is one of the teams that has the HC report to the owner and not to a GM. Makes sense given the record of the GM versus the new HC. Think of it this way: Rex is telling Doug what he's cooking, so he gives Whaley a list of things to get at the store. And Rex does the cooking after Whaley acquires the goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I'll be jigged - 35 fewer rushing attempts, 70 more passing attempts than 2013. So is that change in philosophy what made the '9ers so much worse last year on offense? I've been trying to figure that out. They would have a good 1st half running the ball and then come out for the 2nd half in a 4 WR spread and it didn't work. Gore would have about 10 carries in the 1st half and none in the 2nd. Most teams with a lead go to the running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Think of it this way: Rex is telling Doug what he's cooking, so he gives Whaley a list of things to get at the store. And Rex does the cooking after Whaley acquires the goods. All GMs and HCs do this unless the relationship is highly non-functional. Your previous post made it sound as though this is some big change or that Rex has significantly more control over personnel decisions than previous coaches. I doubt this is true. The coaches always discuss what kind of players they need, and the list is the kind of player they need for their scheme, not "get this player". I think the big change is that finally (and hopefully) Brandon and Overdorf aren't in the mix. They would have a good 1st half running the ball and then come out for the 2nd half in a 4 WR spread and it didn't work. Gore would have about 10 carries in the 1st half and none in the 2nd. Most teams with a lead go to the running game. Interesting, thanks for the gouge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I like a lot of what he has done. I admit I'm truly dissappointed in Matt Cassel. Moore, Locker or even Sanchise is better than Cassel. What it means to me is that he's all in on EJ. He's not giving up on his 1st rounder. I don't agree. Cassel has 96 career TD passes to 70 INTs. Sanchez, Moore & Locker all have about an equal number of TDs and INTs, which one would call mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtDart Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I like the proactive moves the FO is taking to improve the offense... Sadly, it hasn't exactly translated to total success. Time will tell. PS- At a glance, I genuinely thought this threads title started "Has Dealer Drugs....". As do I, but I am also prepared for all of us singing the same song on the board by week 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Whaley's doing what he has to do to give the coaching staff what they need to be successful. Yeah, he's earned the benefit of the doubt. Is he going to be perfect? NO! Does he have more hits than misses? Absolutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 No he hasn't, until this team gets to the playoffs everything is right to question. However he shouldn't be view as a idiot either, a healthy skepticism is the right tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I no longer trust Doug. I think he is hanging it out there. But its fun! and the dude has nuts. so i gotta respect that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I don't agree. Cassel has 96 career TD passes to 70 INTs. Sanchez, Moore & Locker all have about an equal number of TDs and INTs, which one would call mediocrity. 33-38 as a starter is below mediocrity. Edited March 5, 2015 by Green Lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I think Whaley sees us on the cusp of playoff contention. Our 9-7 record last year bears that out. So he feels a sense of urgency. He's hungry to make the playoffs this season so he'll work overtime and make bold deals to get us there. I think he's happy with the defensive roster overall. And we did well on special teams last season (I'm guessing DW will resign Easley). But DW knows Rex and Roman need more offensive weapons. Since no franchise QBs are available, DW went out and got us a franchise RB. He knows we're going to need a great running attack to balance what might be a weak passing attack. Toward this end, DW signed Incognito, traded for a RB, and I'm guessing he's going to get another FA OL. I was not a fan of trading up for Sammy but mostly I like what Whaley is doing. (Humbly noting that neither I nor most anyone else here know 1/100th about NFL personnel that DW knows. But as a fan, it's more fun to have an opinion anyway). I trust Whaley and his vision. Rex concerns me a bit, so I hope Whaley has final say over the player stuff, but they share the vision, so I agree with almost everything above. One exception may be anyone here knowing 1/100th about NFL personnel of what Whaley knows (with very rare exceptions). We probably need another digit, and of course a comma, but no biggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pafan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Doug has my trust. He hasn't made the moves I'd like so far this offseason but I recognize that this is pre-Free Agency and draft, there are only so many moves that can be made, and not every chip will fall into our lap... I have no problem with trading Kiko. I trust Doug's (and Rex's) ability to find 3rd-5th round LBs who can contribute at worst or blossom at best. I won't apologize for the Watkins trade. I don't understand going all-in on a WR then moving to a run-first philosophy 12 months later, but I wanted Watkins & Whaley got him. I question trading for Brown. I would love to have that pick back. Do I like McCoy? I love his play and it will be awesome to see him in Bills' red, white and blue. I do not love tying up a ton of money on one RB. So, what would I do differently from my couch? The money going to McCoy could slightly overpay for Ingram with enough left over to put a down payment on Clint Boling. Spend a little on David Harris. Go after Virgil Green and Clay and drop Chandler and Gragg. Pay Hughes or target McPhee, Sheard or Morgan as his replacement. Let Searcy go. Put $4 million towards Moore or Locker, not Cassell. We need a nose tackle. Laugh all you want but finding K. William's eventual replacement is a must. I want a kid to sit behind Kyle, soak it all in, and be ready when his number is called. We don't have Kyle for much longer and we'll suffer if we can't plug someone in. The replacement needs drafted this year with a mid-draft pick. We should have our picks of an RB, OL or Bryce Petty with our first two picks. Use our late picks on S, DE and OL. With the leftover money add additional pieces via FA like Shorts or Britt at WR, Parnell at T, Sterling Moore at CB... Smile at that depth and reasonable cap room and make a hard, hard, hard run at Tannehill next year. Either way, Whaley still has time to hit some of my wants so I may trust him even more by early May. Or I can sit here saying "I told you so!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJDK Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yes he has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Will you change your mind when they still sign Moore or Locker in a week? Yes, if they bring in additional competition I will back off on my criticism of the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Yes, if they bring in additional competition I will back off on my criticism of the move. I hope they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraq Vet Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I have this weird feeling SJ will be release and be back here.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Getting Hughes was great. Other than that I don't see a single trade that earns Whaley the benefit of doubt. I didn't like the trade up for Watkins (still don't), SJ for a 4th was okay, acquiring Brown for that 4th was a little South of okay, and acquiring a one year rental of Cassel and a 6th for a 5th and 7th was okay at best. I don't know what to think of the Shady/Kiko trade. I'm not sure that Shady will be as good running between the tackles in Buffalo as he was getting into space in Philly. I hate his cap numbers. He doesn't pass pro well either. But if Roman can get the same production out of him as Kelly did,mhe'll be a fan fave. I hate losing Kiko who was on his rookie deal and looked to be a stud, if healthy. I hate that neither seems to want to be here and that McCoy is unhappy with his seemingly generous contract. I don't like this trade yet, but I'll wait and see. I love the way the defense is built (especially the front 7), but the way the offensive line was assembled last season sucked. Ditto the TE spot and, of course, the QB position. I'm not firing Whaley or anything now, but the man has left himself some work to do. Edited March 5, 2015 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBillsWillRiseAgain Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) I believe in Whaley 100%. He's done enough to prove to me that he's capable of making some really, really smart moves and seeing talent where other teams may not. Kiko in the second, Hughes for Shepphard, Robey as an undrafted rookie FA, Corey Graham for peanuts, Preston Brown, Henderson in the 7th. And the trade up for Watkins and this Kiko trade may be controversial, but you can't deny they took a lot of cajones. He's basically the type of GM I've always wanted for the Bills. A GM that takes big risks that pan out most of the time(nobody is perfect). I have a feeling a few games into the season Bills fans are going to be very happy about the McCoy trade. Edited March 5, 2015 by TheBillsWillRiseAgain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezertbill Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 It's not just trades, but FA acquisitions as well (undrafted especially). You don't know what influence Doug Marrone had in the past when it came to some of the OL fails the last couple years (Chris Williams an example). The jury is still out on EJ Manuel as well. However, I think Whaley is a breath of fresh air and for a young GM he is allowed a mulligan or two compared to some of the older GMs in the league (Nix) who lived on mulligans. Plus, its nice to have a GM with the balls to go all out and trade for a player he truly believes in without looking back. Reminds me of another Buffalo GM, Tim Murray. I really like what Whaley is doing and I honestly think after a few years pass we'll truly understand the great job he has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT02 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I hope they do. I hope they do. I hope they do. You and me both, what they have is a bag of beans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 33-38 as a starter is below mediocrity. Because Archie Manning just sucked as a QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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