Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Can some of our Legal Beagle types comment on Marcell Dareus decision to reject a plea bargain and go to trial? Are we likely to lose him for part or all of next season due to the outcome of his now-scheduled May trial/possible jail time? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 i think you are getting a bit ahead of the process, as we simply dont know much info. the best legal beagle involved, the lawyer for this multi millionaire thought it was the best choice for the big guy and im sure playing time probably weighed more heavily than just about anything - being in a contract year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'm sure it gets pled down to less. I question whether you get suspended for traffic offenses. Especially since you would get suspended for your conviction, not what you actually did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 was this discussed IN here Dareus car race trial set for May 19 ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The one thing I read was they offered him a plea of recless driving which is a misdemeaner so could imagine he'd like to go lower than that as I beleive that does leave you with a record. He's probably waiting for them to reduce it to a load muffler violation!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Don't worry Dareus will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 was this discussed IN here Dareus car race trial set for May 19 ??? I guess the OP didn't trust any of the posters in that thread to know the answer lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 was this discussed IN here Dareus car race trial set for May 19 ??? Yes, you're right, I scanned the first page but there is some discussion of the wisdom of the plea on the 2nd page. Mods please feel free to merge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 the trial is still a long way off. My guess is that this is just a news story and that his attorney and the DA are in continual discussions about a plea deal that will permit him to play this year. Going to trial is rarely in anyone's best interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 the trial is still a long way off. My guess is that this is just a news story and that his attorney and the DA are in continual discussions about a plea deal that will permit him to play this year. Going to trial is rarely in anyone's best interest. Dareus was offered a plea dal and he turned it down. I doubt the DA is spending much time at all on this case, let alone in "continual discussion". Why would he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Dareus was offered a plea dal and he turned it down. I doubt the DA is spending much time at all on this case, let alone in "continual discussion". Why would he? Agreed. In my experience, the smaller the stakes, the less time the prosecution spends on it. 1) Young, inexperienced deputy attorneys need practice. If you wanna set a drag-racing case for trial, go ahead. It'll take 2-3 days, max, and that includes jury selection and probably even deliberation. 2) We cant be seen as giving favors to the rich / famous. (And gotta be careful also to not be seen as persecuting them). 3) More deals get struck where the Defendant has multiple outstanding cases. 4) Stop drag-racing on my streets. 5) The evidence is not going to change much in a criminal case. Its not like the defense is going to suddenly find an expert to blow up my case. So, my plea offer is not likely to get better. Generally, no new deal unless there's new info. 6) yes, judges generally pressure both sides to resolve a case, but they cant force it. The best they can do on day of trial is give an indicated sentence (wink wink) if D pleads. But (at least in Calif), the judge cant (really) just dismiss charges. 7) Not to be cynical, but given the above, there's not much benefit to rejecting the deal except the lawyer gets to bill more, and Dareus gets his "day in court." There's also not much downside in small-stakes cases, since the unwritten rule is that, after trial, Judges dont sentence you to worse than the last best plea deal offer (shouldnt punish you for exercising your right to trial - - - a 'rule' i always thought was stupid, and I used to refuse to tell the judge my last offer - - because part of my offer was the risk I might lose, and that risk is gone now that youre convicted). Edited February 11, 2015 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Dareus's real concern is not doing significant jail time because of his reckless behavior. His overriding issue he and his attorney are more concerned with is the punishment meted out by the league. The lower the charge the lower the punishment will be from the league because it will follow the precedents for punishment of other driving transgressions. Dareus's behavior was beyond being reprehensible. He is very fortunate that he didn't kill any innocent bystanders. His moronic behavior came after some other police incidents down south. The standard of the law and punishment applied to him should be the same as it is for everyone else. He should do some jail time, even if it is dished out in weekend increments. If this was his first criminal incident I would be more sympathetic. It's not. He demonstrated by his dangerous driving behavior that he is a menace to the community. He needs to be jolted by the criminal justice system and be held accountable just like everyone else. For those responders who think I am being too harsh just ask yourself what would be your response if he killed your wife who was simply taking the kids out to McDonalds? Jason Wirth was also involved in a reckless driving incident. He is going to do weekend jail time to make amends. Dareus should be handled in a very similar manner. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11983889/jayson-werth-washington-nationals-gets-10-days-jail-reckless-driving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Dareus's real concern is not doing significant jail time because of his reckless behavior. His overriding issue he and his attorney are more concerned with is the punishment meted out by the league. The lower the charge the lower the punishment will be from the league because it will follow the precedents for punishment of other driving transgressions. Dareus's behavior was beyond being reprehensible. He is very fortunate that he didn't kill any innocent bystanders. His moronic behavior came after some other police incidents down south. The standard of the law and punishment applied to him should be the same as it is for everyone else. He should do some jail time, even if it is dished out in weekend increments. If this was his first criminal incident I would be more sympathetic. It's not. He demonstrated by his dangerous driving behavior that he is a menace to the community. He needs to be jolted by the criminal justice system and be held accountable just like everyone else. For those responders who think I am being too harsh just ask yourself what would be your response if he killed your wife who was simply taking the kids out to McDonalds? Jason Wirth was also involved in a reckless driving incident. He is going to do weekend jail time to make amends. Dareus should be handled in a very similar manner. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11983889/jayson-werth-washington-nationals-gets-10-days-jail-reckless-driving I totally get where you're coming from. But he didn't. It's a huge difference. You don't get the same sentence for murder as you do for atttempted murder (IMO you sohuld get more for attempted murder because it just means you can't do what you attempted to do). People speed all the time. You get a ticket. It's stupid and you are putting people at risk. But I don't think he should go to jail IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) 7) Not to be cynical, but given the above, there's not much benefit to rejecting the deal except the lawyer gets to bill more, and Dareus gets his "day in court." There's also not much downside in small-stakes cases, since the unwritten rule is that, after trial, Judges dont sentence you to worse than the last best plea deal offer (shouldnt punish you for exercising your right to trial - - - a 'rule' i always thought was stupid, and used to refuse to tell the judge my last offer - - because part of my offer was the risk I might lose, and that risk is gone now that youre convicted). When dealing with a high profile case for a standard criminal act (driving charge) the judge is going to be very conscience about not showing favortism on the one hand and not being excessively harsh because the defendant has a high profile. There is usually a standard response by the sentencing judge to such an expected media covered case: Give out the same sentence you would to the average joe. There is nothing unusual about this case. The judge and the courts handle these type of cases all the time. For certain courts these type of cases make up a lot of cases that the judge presides over. Assuming there is a conviction a report is going to be made by the court about his history which also includes prior criminal incidents. That will be factored in when the judge decides to hand out his sentence. The judge is not only concerned with Dareus and being fair to him but he is also going to be very aware that how he handles the case is going to be reviewed. That''s the predictable outcome that happens when expensive attorneys represent wealthy clients. So the best way to cover his own robe covered rear end is to be consistent on the way he usually handles similar cases. As you smartly indicated there are going to be signals sent to the defense attorney letting him know what the best deal he can get before going through the trouble of a trial. Edited February 11, 2015 by JohnC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I totally get where you're coming from. But he didn't. It's a huge difference. You don't get the same sentence for murder as you do for atttempted murder (IMO you sohuld get more for attempted murder because it just means you can't do what you attempted to do). People speed all the time. You get a ticket. It's stupid and you are putting people at risk. But I don't think he should go to jail IMO. I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. There is a simple and fair way to handle his case. Treat him like everyone else. I'm sure you agree with that approach. Attempted murder is not going to be treated as harshly as a murder charge but it will be treated as a very serious offense. If someone shoots at a school whether he hits anyone or not the offender is going to face serious charges. The driving incident that Dareus was involved with came shortly after he had legal transgressions involving drugs with the homeboys. Shortly after that he got involved in another incident that by the grace of god didn't kill some innocent bystanders. My position regarding Dareus really has little to do with who he is and what he does for a living. My position is simple and clear: Treat him like any other person. If the standard is jail time, then so be it. If not, then punish him in consistent manner with the local standard. I've told the story before so I won't go into it again. Someone I worked with had a son who was pitching in his first major league game. He flew out from the east to the west coast. He watched his son pitch in his first game. He was stupendously proud of his son. After the game he went to the hotel and was notified by the police that his son and others got killed because of a drunken driver. I have no sympathies for people who behave in a way that is a danger to the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. There is a simple and fair way to handle his case. Treat him like everyone else. I'm sure you agree with that approach. Attempted murder is not going to be treated as harshly as a murder charge but it will be treated as a very serious offense. If someone shoots at a school whether he hits anyone or not the offender is going to face serious charges. The driving incident that Dareus was involved with came shortly after he had legal transgressions involving drugs with the homeboys. Shortly after that he got involved in another incident that by the grace of god didn't kill some innocent bystanders. My position regarding Dareus really has little to do with who he is and what he does for a living. My position is simple and clear: Treat him like any other person. If the standard is jail time, then so be it. If not, then punish him in consistent manner with the local standard. I've told the story before so I won't go into it again. Someone I worked with had a son who was pitching in his first major league game. He flew out from the east to the west coast. He watched his son pitch in his first game. He was stupendously proud of his son. After the game he went to the hotel and was notified by the police that his son and others got killed because of a drunken driver. I have no sympathies for people who behave in a way that is a danger to the community. I 100% respect your point of view and won't shed any tears if he goes to jail. And that story is awful. But I do think most people won't get jail. JMO. Dumb thing and he is lucky it wasn't much, much worse. But he didn't hit anyway and hopefully he grew up. No excuses, but Darues has had a pretty tough life. Hopefully, this was his wake up call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 John. Must be nice. Never speed? Never drag raced? Never ran a light? Jail? Your not thinking straight. They don't put people in jail for "coulda". They don't put people in jail for a lot worse things. He should be treated like every other young person offender. Not because he is a Bill. He just got caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 John. Must be nice. Never speed? Never drag raced? Never ran a light? Jail? Your not thinking straight. They don't put people in jail for "coulda". They don't put people in jail for a lot worse things. He should be treated like every other young person offender. Not because he is a Bill. He just got caught. http://espn.go.com/m...eckless-driving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Dareus's real concern is not doing significant jail time because of his reckless behavior. His overriding issue he and his attorney are more concerned with is the punishment meted out by the league. The lower the charge the lower the punishment will be from the league because it will follow the precedents for punishment of other driving transgressions. Dareus's behavior was beyond being reprehensible. He is very fortunate that he didn't kill any innocent bystanders. His moronic behavior came after some other police incidents down south. The standard of the law and punishment applied to him should be the same as it is for everyone else. He should do some jail time, even if it is dished out in weekend increments. If this was his first criminal incident I would be more sympathetic. It's not. He demonstrated by his dangerous driving behavior that he is a menace to the community. He needs to be jolted by the criminal justice system and be held accountable just like everyone else. For those responders who think I am being too harsh just ask yourself what would be your response if he killed your wife who was simply taking the kids out to McDonalds? Jason Wirth was also involved in a reckless driving incident. He is going to do weekend jail time to make amends. Dareus should be handled in a very similar manner. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11983889/jayson-werth-washington-nationals-gets-10-days-jail-reckless-driving reckless endangerment type stuff pretty much is you coulda killed or hurt someone. If every transgression was prosecuted by charging people for what could have happened, where would you draw the line? Jaywalking may as well be manslaughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 John. Must be nice. Never speed? Never drag raced? Never ran a light? Jail? Your not thinking straight. They don't put people in jail for "coulda". They don't put people in jail for a lot worse things. He should be treated like every other young person offender. Not because he is a Bill. He just got caught. John is a poster and this hits close to home. That said, I feel exactly like you do. It's stupid but everyone walked away. It has nothing to do with him as a football player. Maybe the laws need to be tougher. But we live in a world where someone can kill someone while driving drunk and get less than a year in jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I 100% respect your point of view and won't shed any tears if he goes to jail. And that story is awful. But I do think most people won't get jail. JMO. Dumb thing and he is lucky it wasn't much, much worse. But he didn't hit anyway and hopefully he grew up. No excuses, but Darues has had a pretty tough life. Hopefully, this was his wake up call. If the standard in the community he was arrested in doesn't call for jail time then he shouldn't get it. If the standard is that someone who was recently arrested for other transgressions and is then involved in another criminal transgression does get jail time then he should be subjected to the same standard. In the other tragic case I cited it should be noted that the son was an only child. reckless endangerment type stuff pretty much is you coulda killed or hurt someone. If every transgression was prosecuted by charging people for what could have happened, where would you draw the line? Jaywalking may as well be manslaughter. http://espn.go.com/m...eckless-driving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddenboy Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) This thread is moving away from the OP's question: Was Dareus smart to reject the deal, and can law-types chime in? ---- That said, the tangent you guys are onto is a classic law school classroom debate topic: - Should the penalty in a criminal case be determined by the outcome? The very long answer is, usually, NO. In criminal law, you punish the Conduct. The idea IIRC is that the consequence to society of the 500 drunk drivers who dont hurt anyone vs. the 1 drunk who does, is reflected in the overall punishment scheme by the legislature (not saying I agree). The result is the opposite in civil / tort law. If you commit a tort you are responsible for all reasonably foreseeable consequences, and "reasonably" is stretched pretty far (the "eggshell plaintiff" line). ---- Edited February 11, 2015 by maddenboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Trial by jury is smart IMO...just make sure all of the jurors are Bills fans! Plus, if you want to get re-elected as a DA in WNY, you might want to NOT convict Bills players. Not saying they should get away with murder, but no one was hurt except Dareus' car. Edited February 11, 2015 by Damian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 This thread is moving away from the OP's question: Was Dareus smart to reject the deal, and can law-types chime in? ---- That said, the tangent you guys are onto is a classic law school classroom debate topic: - Should the penalty in a criminal case be determined by the outcome? The very long answer is, usually, NO. In criminal law, you punish the Conduct. The idea IIRC is that the consequence to society of the 500 drunk drivers who dont hurt anyone vs. the 1 drunk who does, is reflected in the overall punishment scheme by the legislature (not saying I agree). The result is the opposite in civil / tort law. If you commit a tort you are responsible for all reasonably foreseeable consequences, and "reasonably" is stretched pretty far (the "eggshell plaintiff" line). ---- If the standard in the jurisdiction for his type of offense is jail time then he should do jail time. If the standard in the jurisdiction for his type of offense is not to do jail time then that standard should be applied to him. It seems to me that the facts of the case are known and are difficult to challegne. Apparently the defense believes that what the prosecutor is offering is too harsh. On the other side of the coin the prosecutor probably believes that the defense has little room to maneuver. As you suggested that in these type of cases "signals" are given by the court as to what the level of sentencing is going to be before there is a trial. There is no doubt that the court prefers a deal so that a trial can be avoided. From my vantage point it appears to me that because there isn't much to challenge with regards to the facts of the case that the prosecution is in a better negotiating stance. If that is the case then it makes more sense for them to hold their ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Agreed. In my experience, the smaller the stakes, the less time the prosecution spends on it. 1) Young, inexperienced deputy attorneys need practice. If you wanna set a drag-racing case for trial, go ahead. It'll take 2-3 days, max, and that includes jury selection and probably even deliberation. 2) We cant be seen as giving favors to the rich / famous. (And gotta be careful also to not be seen as persecuting them). 3) More deals get struck where the Defendant has multiple outstanding cases. 4) Stop drag-racing on my streets. 5) The evidence is not going to change much in a criminal case. Its not like the defense is going to suddenly find an expert to blow up my case. So, my plea offer is not likely to get better. Generally, no new deal unless there's new info. 6) yes, judges generally pressure both sides to resolve a case, but they cant force it. The best they can do on day of trial is give an indicated sentence (wink wink) if D pleads. But (at least in Calif), the judge cant (really) just dismiss charges. 7) Not to be cynical, but given the above, there's not much benefit to rejecting the deal except the lawyer gets to bill more, and Dareus gets his "day in court." There's also not much downside in small-stakes cases, since the unwritten rule is that, after trial, Judges dont sentence you to worse than the last best plea deal offer (shouldnt punish you for exercising your right to trial - - - a 'rule' i always thought was stupid, and I used to refuse to tell the judge my last offer - - because part of my offer was the risk I might lose, and that risk is gone now that youre convicted). This is a great point. And a great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts