D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Good. Too many offensive players regressed under the previous staff: Spiller, Johnson, Wood, Glenn, to not think coaching was a problem.Good point about regression of players. You can make a BOLD argument that none of our offensive players improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I think about the deep fades out of bounds EJ would throw when he was in there -- he was probably coached to do this! "Look, EJ, if the guy isn't wide open, you throw it where nobody can get it. We don't want a pick." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Good point about regression of players. You can make a BOLD argument that none of our offensive players improved. In fairness, Chris Hogan did. But that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 In fairness, Chris Hogan did. But that's about it.That may have been more about opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 That may have been more about opportunity.yes, the opportunity created by Doug not playing Mike Williams. I am pleased with Hogan though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanM.D. Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 yes, the opportunity created by Doug not playing Mike Williams. I am pleased with Hogan though. and using your best offensive weapon as a 'decoy.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I am pleased with Hogan though. Right up until we get into the redzone and we start throwing fades and jump balls to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 yes, the opportunity created by Doug not playing Mike Williams. I am pleased with Hogan though. Yeah I'm a Hogan fan too. Never understood the hate he got. He blows Rogers' career out of the water now. But when you struggle in the redzone and don't play a proven redzone threat, very questionable. Was Williams' last catch a 80 yard td? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Shanahan's would be an embarrassment just like they were in D.C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I think Marrone was undermining Whaley all year. He wouldn't play Urbik even though his G selections stunk to high heaven. He wouldn't bring EJ back once the playoffs were lost for no reason. Marrone would screw a player to make Whaley look bad. He thought he was Saint Doug in fact he was a$$hole Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 and using your best offensive weapon as a 'decoy.' I'll never forget them running screens... with Watkins as a !@#$ing blocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 i would be very interested to see what nathaniel hackett would do if left to his own devises. the guy speaks with energy and enthusiasm and his players seem to have a really high opinion of him. and the general opinion of him has been that he has a good understanding of the game and has innovative ideas. the million dollar question is whether or not that was his vision of the offense or coach marrone's. seemingly it was the latter, but who knows. Well, there's what's said in public and there's what's said behind closed doors, too. I have no doubt that Hackett had some shackles on this year, for various reasons, but I am still not sure he has the combo of experience and innovation that we're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The more I think about it, the more I think that Marrone may be one of the worst head coaches the Bills have ever had CBF As much as I defended him, I think that you are on to something here. Plus, he proved to be a piece of s*#t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It is interesting to read this and the other Marrone related threads. Now all of the problems with the Bills ... Manuel sucking, Spiller sucking, the offense in general sucking and so on ... are now suddenly all the fault of Doug Marrone. Like a giant secret was just revealed. Somehow he must be responsible for OJ's legal problems as well I imagine I know this is a Bills homer board and a lot of fans feel like Marrone just stood them up for the prom and that's where most of the venom is coming from, but it interesting nonetheless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) As much as I defended him, I think that you are on to something here. Plus, he proved to be a piece of s*#t. Also, just imagine how our team would look if we had, say.....Wanny as our DC Schwartz saved the Bills ass this year CBF Edited January 7, 2015 by Canadian Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I like this point. EJ is probably never going to be a 70% passer. But why not run the ball and use play action to throw deep? Watkins is a deep threat. Flacco is not a great QB. But he makes big plays. Why can't we develop EJ in the same mold? Too many good things happen when you throw the ball down thefield. NFL coaches are wimps. Yes. Use play action from behind center, roll him out at least 5 times/game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It is interesting to read this and the other Marrone related threads. Now all of the problems with the Bills ... Manuel sucking, Spiller sucking, the offense in general sucking and so on ... are now suddenly all the fault of Doug Marrone. Like a giant secret was just revealed. Somehow he must be responsible for OJ's legal problems as well I imagine I know this is a Bills homer board and a lot of fans feel like Marrone just stood them up for the prom and that's where most of the venom is coming from, but it interesting nonetheless The premise of your post is interesting. On the other hand, I would not exactly call this a Bills homer board. We have many aspiring Sullys and Buckys on this board (In fact, I am convinced that one or more posters is/are Bucky and/or Sully trying to drive their narrative). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I think about the deep fades out of bounds EJ would throw when he was in there -- he was probably coached to do this! "Look, EJ, if the guy isn't wide open, you throw it where nobody can get it. We don't want a pick." The deep fade is my least favorite pass, and yet we threw it all the time. I don't understand the appeal. It's really difficult to place correctly, and requires the WR to beat out skilled CBs, while not getting pushed out of bounds? Seems inefficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 We have many aspiring Sullys and Buckys on this board (In fact, I am convinced that one or more posters is/are Bucky and/or Sully trying to drive their narrative). Yeah, TSW is the "go to" source for column fodder, so they're undoubtedly here. More than likely in my Ignore User list, just like in my Snooze reading habits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 The deep fade is my least favorite pass, and yet we threw it all the time. I don't understand the appeal. It's really difficult to place correctly, and requires the WR to beat out skilled CBs, while not getting pushed out of bounds? Seems inefficient. Yes, further proof that they weren't good enough coaches to utilize high percentage plays based on the personnel on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It is interesting to read this and the other Marrone related threads. Now all of the problems with the Bills ... Manuel sucking, Spiller sucking, the offense in general sucking and so on ... are now suddenly all the fault of Doug Marrone. Like a giant secret was just revealed. Somehow he must be responsible for OJ's legal problems as well I imagine I know this is a Bills homer board and a lot of fans feel like Marrone just stood them up for the prom and that's where most of the venom is coming from, but it interesting nonetheless I can't speak for anyone else, but it's less that Marrone is definitely to blame, and more "well ****, I don't know now..." Basically I can't say if EJ is *definitely* terrible, or if Marrone sucked at developing a young QB with promise. So I go into next season with hope that it's the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 come on. you guys have seen Manuel. The guy has almost zero control or touch over his throws. Nobody can coach that. Not to mention he was doing a good job getting receivers hurt. You may very well be right about Manuel's potential. BUT... He's completing nearly 60% of his passes despite his lack of experience and problematic OL. I'm a Purdue grad so I've followed Drew Brees career. I remember people making similar arguments about Brees when he was with the Bolts. Lots of fans and pundits thought Brees just didn't have what it takes to be a franchise QB. Somebody mentioned Alex Smith and we could also throw in Jim Plunkett among others. Some QBs just start badly in the NFL. I'm all in favor of signing a veteran QB and even drafting a QB. But I'm not completely sold that EJ can never be a franchise QB - not yet. I suspect Whaley's glowing remarks about EJ come with some balance. I doubt if he's saying, "You need to start this guy for the next few years because I'm convinced he will be an outstanding QB." He's probably suggesting there's some potential there but the Bills will also look elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Well this escalated quickly... NFL @nfl 4m4 minutes ago Report: @buffalobills GM wants next coach to revive EJ Manuel http://at.nfl.com/QyfCegZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 So you're saying he missed two games in four years and he's injury prone. Got it, doc. In 2011 I think they played 13 games (9-4) and he played in 12 btw, so he missed one game and maybe part of another. I also like how breaking a finger is part of the case that you are injury-prone. Inexplicable as he's been drinking plenty of Malk (with Vitamin R). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Well this escalated quickly... NFL @nfl 4m4 minutes ago Report: @buffalobills GM wants next coach to revive EJ Manuel http://at.nfl.com/QyfCegZ He can't throw! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I also like how breaking a finger is part of the case that you are injury-prone. Inexplicable as he's been drinking plenty of Malk (with Vitamin R). It's surely a concern. Most players simply cannot be coached out of "reckless pinky" which has sent hundreds of quarterbacks to the sidelines and ruined many a career. Edited January 7, 2015 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Well this escalated quickly... NFL @nfl 4m4 minutes ago Report: @buffalobills GM wants next coach to revive EJ Manuel http://at.nfl.com/QyfCegZ What's most surprising is that this is actually a positive article...I guess Conor Orr (from the clan Orr) isn't on Sexton's "leak" list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Well this escalated quickly... NFL @nfl 4m4 minutes ago Report: @buffalobills GM wants next coach to revive EJ Manuel http://at.nfl.com/QyfCegZ It doesn't take a rocket scientist I suppose to figure out that next season could well hinge upon Manuel becoming at least average. From the looks of things, the possibility of the Bills picking up even an average QB via draft, trade, or FA seems unlikely. That leaves Manuel as the default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Contrary to a lot of people who flat wrongly state that Manuel totally sucks and cannot throw a pass, teams need two reliable QBS. It's possible that Manuel is just a backup for his whole career like Todd Collins but teams need backups. Backup QB is an essential position on a team, even if he never plays because your QB was lucky enough to not get hurt over the entire season. I don't know if EJ is ever going to be good enough to be a starter or even good enough to be a solid backup. I think he's close to that now (the backup). But the Bills and Whaley are doing the only reasonable thing. It's a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 It doesn't take a rocket scientist I suppose to figure out that next season could well hinge upon Manuel becoming at least average. From the looks of things, the possibility of the Bills picking up even an average QB via draft, trade, or FA seems unlikely. That leaves Manuel as the default. I do disagree about FA...I think there are a couple of "average" = Orton level but with guts not to slide QB out there. I agree that the Bills best shot at a QB is, if Manuel can be developed. And contrary to what many people feel, it is quite possible to manage a so-so QB to a good season, it just takes matching the scheme to the players and positioning the guy to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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