mead107 Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Orton makes online look bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Orton makes online look bad. Really? I don't think they needed Orton's help, they were doing just fine at sucking long before he took over. The one thing that EJ could do that Orton can;t is run and escape the constant pressure he was getting, "Obviously" Orton is terrible at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Really? I don't think they needed Orton's help, they were doing just fine at sucking long before he took over. The one thing that EJ could do that Orton can;t is run and escape the constant pressure he was getting, "Obviously" Orton is terrible at that. There was a lot of simultaneous sucking going on. It's a chicken AND the egg type thing. Yes, EJ can run better than Orton (a helpfull and necessary survival skill), but he's far from "natural". The guy can't even slide! Not a natural looking athlete, but not a statue, which is an improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumblefish Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 When the Bills were a power or a contender yearly, the OL line was a force to be reckoned with, they were so dominate NFL changed the compensation rules for signing of free agents, in an effort to break up the line, and it did, OL has never been the strength of the team from that time to present day, Bills number 1 priority is O line,every thing else, IS secondary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 The D starts with the line, and the O has to do the same thing. I trust Whaley to know that. All positions (and the OC) get better with a great line. They took some shots at improving it last year. They're not done and with a little luck some of last years guys step up with a season behind them. Win the line of scrimmage and the game is likely to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 It won't take much for our OL. Before Hackett is shown the door I would like to look at whoever is coaching our OL. Maybe he can do better when we do better at getting him good pieces like Crossman. But, I do worry that we tried to do that and failed. We need to fix the OL first and foremost. Not just because it is easier to do but because it will not matter who we put back there - unless we get some amazing top 5 QB Roethlisberger, Rodgers type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Both sides of the ball are built front to back, inside to outside. You can not be a successful team with a sub par line, on offense or defense. If the Bills get better line play, holes open for the runners and the QBs have more time to throw. It is about keeping pressure off the QB and ensuring he gets into a comfortable rhythm. Build a better line and who ever is under center will have a better chance at success as will the RBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 You could give Marrone Roaf, Boselli, Munoz, House, Hull, Joe D and Walter Jones and in two years our OL would be average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincec Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 You could give Marrone Roaf, Boselli, Munoz, House, Hull, Joe D and Walter Jones and in two years our OL would be average. This may be a slight exaggeration ... but I think the sentiment is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Both sides of the ball are built front to back, inside to outside. You can not be a successful team with a sub par line, on offense or defense. In general I agree, however, the Hawks have a bad offensive line. That said, ours need to upgraded ASAP, if not sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I'm sure that it has been stated, but my biggest gripe offensively has been the playcalling. When you drive the ball up the field against KC into the red zone by running the ball, common sense would dictate that you continue with a ground heavy look. Instead we get into the red zone, and go empty backfield 4 plays in a row, turn the ball over on downs, and lose the game when this was our opportunity to put it away. You can find multiple examples of this throughout the year. I have to believe that Marrone needs to hire an OC that will call plays and let him focus on game management. I don't care if Hackett gets demoted or canned, but he cannot be the OC next year and expect progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Orton makes online look bad. pun ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 There was a lot of simultaneous sucking going on. It's a chicken AND the egg type thing. Yes, EJ can run better than Orton (a helpfull and necessary survival skill), but he's far from "natural". The guy can't even slide! Not a natural looking athlete, but not a statue, which is an improvement. My biggest problem with Orton is his inability to avoid sacks. I don't expect him to run. I know he isn't an extremely accurate QB. But he is a veteran. He should be able to throw the ball away when he is getting pressured. For some reason he fails at that too often for my taste. And I think EJ looks like a perfectly natural athlete. He does, at times, look like a QB who has been taught NOT to run. While that is preferable to the, run as soon as your first option is unavailable (like Johnny Foosball), I'd like to see him get a bit more latitude should he get another shot as a starter. You could give Marrone Roaf, Boselli, Munoz, House, Hull, Joe D and Walter Jones and in two years our OL would be average. When Marrone was an OL coach in the NFL, did his lines suck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Besides his awkward slides on occassion, the failure to sense the coming hit and just lift his leg a little so the foot wasn't planted - saving the knee - as he went out of bounds (Browns game last year?) seemed to show a lack of natural awareness. You need that to survive. I know that's a lot of weight to put on a split second, but it stuck in my mind. And cost him games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Besides his awkward slides on occassion, the failure to sense the coming hit and just lift his leg a little so the foot wasn't planted - saving the knee - as he went out of bounds (Browns game last year?) seemed to show a lack of natural awareness. You need that to survive. I know that's a lot of weight to put on a split second, but it stuck in my mind. And cost him games. Those examples sound like things you learn with experience, not a lack of "natural athleticism", IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 When Marrone was an OL coach in the NFL, did his lines suck? The Bills OL players are worse now than when he arrived. It is supposed main strength. If his other OLs didn't suck maybe someone was bailing him out by getting the ball out quick. It doesn't matter though; because he should be judged on what he has done here. We can all see the results and we wasted a full year two years of some of the best Bills D ever seen. Wanna waste another? We only have a few left in all likelihood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 My biggest problem with Orton is his inability to avoid sacks. I don't expect him to run. I know he isn't an extremely accurate QB. But he is a veteran. He should be able to throw the ball away when he is getting pressured. For some reason he fails at that too often for my taste. And I think EJ looks like a perfectly natural athlete. He does, at times, look like a QB who has been taught NOT to run. While that is preferable to the, run as soon as your first option is unavailable (like Johnny Foosball), I'd like to see him get a bit more latitude should he get another shot as a starter. When Marrone was an OL coach in the NFL, did his lines suck? If you recall he was credited with making a couple super raw players into pro bowl guards. Brandon Moore with Jets and Carl Nicks with Saints if I recall correctly. He was like the guard whisperer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 The Bills OL players are worse now than when he arrived. It is supposed main strength. If his other OLs didn't suck maybe someone was bailing him out by getting the ball out quick. It doesn't matter though; because he should be judged on what he has done here. We can all see the results and we wasted a full year two years of some of the best Bills D ever seen. Wanna waste another? We only have a few left in all likelihood. I can't disagree with your assessment the Bills O-line has regressed. But your hyperbolic example of assembling a Pro Bowl caliber line, only to have Marrone destroy it with coaching is simply idiotic, based simply on the regression of this year's line, IMO. First of all, Marrone is NOT the O-Line coach for the Buffalo Bills. And he has had some real success in the past as an OL coach. He does seem to be more interest than many HC in the coaching of the OL--I'll give you that. Is this year an aberration? Should he be more, or less, involved with the coaching of the OL? Perhaps the OL coach is the issue. I happen to think the issue with the OL this year is a combination of several things: poor QBing, injuries to the starting RBs, poor play calling, guards who didn't perform at their predicted level, etc. It seemed like a perfect storm to the detriment to the OL and the offense overall. My point is, the problem is complicated and a simple solution like "fire Marrone" doesn't seem like an well thought out solution. Do you think the next HC will be an OL expert? Do you even have any idea who they might hire as a HC? Might the next HC do better with the OL but destroy the defense? The knee-jerk response to the Bills issues is understandable (for fans) given their years of failure, but it is rarely a good management strategy. I'm not arguing Marrone is the answer for this team and should be retained. But I would think long and hard before firing him. The constant changing of HCs, particularly when the team is making strides in the W column, seems like a bad idea to me. But if there is a proven NFL HC, whose strength is offense waiting to take the job, perhaps a change should be considered. But would Schwartz stay with a new HC? If not, who would be brought in? Would that DC need to change personnel to match his "system"? My point being a HC change changes more than just the OL. I believe this team has far fewer holes than in past years. Plus the needs are pretty specific this year. And I'd like to think that Whaley, and Marrone know what those needs are. Fortunately one of the biggest needs is also supposedly Marrone's strength. A concentrated effort by Whaley and Marrone should be able to improve this problem in the offseason. It seems like an area that shouldn't be too difficult to improve (I mean it would hard to be worse, no?). After all, aren't serviceable guards easier to find than tackles? One might think that experience should help Richardson, if he has any talent at all. The question I have re: Marrone is, will be be willing to change OC and OL coach? If not, that is a real problem, IMO. I'm not saying he should make a knee-jerk decision, but he needs to be open to the option, should the FO conclude those coaches are the biggest problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 Buddy Nix once said about Trent that "it's hard to make plays from your back" Funny how awful QB have poor OL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 (edited) Those examples sound like things you learn with experience, not a lack of "natural athleticism", IMO. I hope that's true. I have two sons. One was born with it, the other had to try to learn it. Both really good athletes. It's better to be born with "it". Knowing to lift your leg before impact to save your knee is a type of survival skill/instinct you either have or you don't. Orton will just stand inside his hula hoop range, then go down. EJ will try to run, but is not instinctive when attempting to avoid contact. I hope he can learn, but I've been watching since his first FSU starts. Maybe he will learn. I hope so. This is not a statement of "fact", but just a gut feeling. He seems mechanical to me and lacking in instinct. I'll be glad to eat some crow after some Pro Bowls and Super Bowls!!! Edited December 27, 2014 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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