JC2002 Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 you have your opinion. I have mine. I believe he would be better than any QB we have seen since Jim Kelly. You don't agree. That's fine. I still don't want him on this team. I'm simply stating he would be better than what we have. How do you justify considering a player with that many turnovers per season a difference maker ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) How do you justify considering a player with that many turnovers per season a difference maker ? how do you consider Kyle Prton a better QB? You have watched him turtle behind the LOS just seeing the DL snarl at him from across the line. You have seen him throw like 5 yards short or over his WRs heads right. Again. For the 1,000 time. I'm not saying I want Cutler or should make the trade. I'm simply stating that Cutler is much better than Kyle Orton. Edited December 21, 2014 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 As far as I know Schefter has been reliable and if this is anywheres accurate then this would be a first in trading a player. This was reported on Bleacher Report and I'm not allowed to paste the link but here is what was said. 1 hr · Several NFL executives believe that it's possible for Bears QB Jay Cutler to go from being benched to becoming a first-scenario, test-case trade. Never before has a team trading a player also had to give up drat-pick compensation to get rid of him. But some NFL executives believe that with any team having to absorb $25.5 million worth of guarantees in Cutler's contract, the Bears might have to package a decent draft pick to get another team to take him. NFL rules dictate that nominal compensation must be exchanged between teams, but it could mean another team surrendering a late-round pick to Chicago for Cutler and a better pick. Such a scenario could enrage Bears fans, but to get a team to take on so much guaranteed money that could be used on valuable free agents and contract extensions, the Bears just might have to compensate a team with more than Cutler to do it. Depending on the pick it might be worth it. you want a blockbuster deal? Trade hughes, manuel and a 3rd for the bears first and cutler. The bears pick will be a top ten one so I think its pretty far fetched but if there are two qb's gone by their pick maybe they bite. even if the Bear's gave the Bills their next 2 first round picks, and picked up half of Cutlers salary, maybe it would b a yes in my head my gut says NO, and my gut is usually 99% right it would be worth just for the picks, it's not like we have to keep him if he sux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 you want a blockbuster deal? Trade hughes, manuel and a 3rd for the bears first and cutler. The bears pick will be a top ten one so I think its pretty far fetched but if there are two qb's gone by their pick maybe they bite. I think that's giving up too much for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 I'd take cutler and a first for a seventh. I've been against the Cutler trade, but if we rework his deal, and get a 1st, it would be a high pick given their record. That could be viable as Cutler would not have to compensate for a bad defense he had at Vanderbuilt, Denver, and Chicago. He'd be able to play within his skills, and posibly upgrade us there. We certainly would be throwing it down the field. I see what I said as fantasy, Madden land, but if this were the case, we'd get a 1st rounder, and a better QB for two years. we;d have two years to find a QB and get rid of Cutler. I just hate wasting this defense with incompetent offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) I've been against the Cutler trade, but if we rework his deal, and get a 1st, it would be a high pick given their record. That could be viable as Cutler would not have to compensate for a bad defense he had at Vanderbuilt, Denver, and Chicago. He'd be able to play within his skills, and posibly upgrade us there. We certainly would be throwing it down the field. I see what I said as fantasy, Madden land, but if this were the case, we'd get a 1st rounder, and a better QB for two years. we;d have two years to find a QB and get rid of Cutler. I just hate wasting this defense with incompetent offense. Why would a guy who seems very much like a QB who doesn't care about football or winning, rework his astronomical deal? That would be like believing Cutler is fine with giving millions of dollars away. I certainly don't think Cutler would bet on himself to be good four years down the road where he would recoup his money in a tradeoff for the hopes of a 3 or 4 year playoffs/Superbowl run. If the Bears take on some of Cutlers money towards the deal then they won't be giving you a high pick, I would think it would either one or the other. If he doesn't rework his deal then the defense will lose great players due to the salary cap. Then there is the fact that Cutler has had 24 turnovers in 14 games. Where Orton has had 10 turnovers in 10 games. I just don't understand how adding that many extra turnovers helps the Bills. If there's a tradeoff then I'm taking the QB with lower passing numbers vs almost double the turnovers. The positive stats simply do not sufficiently overcome that rate of those turnovers. I think Bills fans are overthinking the problem. There is no simple answer. The only answer I see is keeping Orton around as a fallback option to Manuel and a FA QB with potential. Along the way there may be a team that offers a deal for you to obtain a better QB than Orton, but if that doesn't happen then the Bills MUST spend their time pursing getting the offensive line situation, the OC situation and the TE situation fixed ONCE AND FOR ALL. Because if the Bills can run the ball at will and play great defense, then they should have a decent passing game. If they have that then they can get to the playoffs and even get to the Superbowl with either Orton or Manuel. Edited December 21, 2014 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) I dislike Cutler as much as anyone- but when you look at the options at quarterback LEAGUE wide we have to consider it. For coach Marrone is he getting a new extended contract or is it a one year make or brake. If its a make or brake you gotta look into bringing in Cutler if not time to break EJ in. For those doing the I don't want him- which I get .....take a look around who are you going to bring in?....yep Cutler looks even better (sadly) On the otherside he could be awesome it's not talent he lacks its everything else Edited December 21, 2014 by CardinalScotts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 How would a team sell taking on a contract that makes an interception machine the highest paid guy to the rest of the roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 How would a team sell taking on a contract that makes an interception machine the highest paid guy to the rest of the roster? becaise you pick up an extra 3rd or 4th rounder and you can always just re-negotiate his contract. Oh, and he's still better than any QB we have in the roster and have had since #12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 becaise you pick up an extra 3rd or 4th rounder and you can always just re-negotiate his contract. Ryan Fitzpatrick is smiling at this. Oh, and he's still better than any QB we have in the roster and have had since #12. He has talent. Ryan Leaf had talent too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 @RapSheet #confirmed RT @AroundTheNFL: Jay Cutler to the Titans? It could happen. http://www.nfl.com/n...jay-cutler-deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Ryan Fitzpatrick is smiling at this. He has talent. Ryan Leaf had talent too. Ryan Fitzpatricks contract isn't all that bad for a QB that is/was starting in the NFL. Ryan Leaf??? Really? Why would you even bring him into this argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 Ryan Fitzpatricks contract isn't all that bad for a QB that is/was starting in the NFL. Ryan Leaf??? Really? Why would you even bring him into this argument? It's dirt simple, really. Nobody is questioning Cutler's talent. That's a straw-man. The problem is talent by itself is not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) becaise you pick up an extra 3rd or 4th rounder and you can always just re-negotiate his contract. Oh, and he's still better than any QB we have in the roster and have had since #12. So you're telling me that you can always just renegotiate Jay Cutler's contract? That he'll either give away or push out millions of dollars of his contract money because he's a good guy? Really? Edited December 21, 2014 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 @RapSheet As soon as Jay Cutler got benched in Chicago, the #Titans began doing homework on him, asking players and preparing their research. While Jay Cutler would like to stay in Chicago, if he’s gone, Nashville & the #Titans would be his preferred location. He played at Vandy If #Titans trade for Jay Cutler, it will have wide-ranging ramifications, especially if they get top pick. Will alter the draft dramatically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 It's dirt simple, really. Nobody is questioning Cutler's talent. That's a straw-man. The problem is talent by itself is not enough. im not saying it's enough. Regardless. He's still better than any QB we've got on the roster and he would instantly make us better. In case you haven't seen the rest of this thread. For the 1001 time. I'm not saying I want Cutler on the Bills. I don't. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't make is better. He absolutely would without question. So you're telling me that you can always just renegotiate Jay Cutler's contract? That he'll either give away or push out millions of dollars of his contract money because he's a good guy? Really? um. It's the NFL. Players negotiate contracts all the time. It happens every season. It doesn't mean anyone takes a paycut. It might just mean the deal is restructured. That's all besides the point that Cutler makes us better instantly. That's all besides the point thy were 20-30 million under the cap as is and that's before the cap goes up in the offseason. We have enough cash and an owner willing to spend to resign everyone we want and sign Cutler. For the 1002 time. I don't want this to happen. Bit I wouldn't be pissed if it did happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 im not saying it's enough. Regardless. He's still better than any QB we've got on the roster and he would instantly make us better. In case you haven't seen the rest of this thread. For the 1001 time. I'm not saying I want Cutler on the Bills. I don't. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't make is better. He absolutely would without question. To elaborate on what I meant above. 1. The Ryan Fitzpatrick contract was generally sold here as "no big deal" because it could "just be renegotiated", etc. Your post brought that whole line of argument back to mind. Fitzpatrick refused to renegotiate and the Bills ended up rolling the dice on Kevin Kolb last year as a result. Oops. The premise that a team can unilaterally renegotiate is simply false. It takes both parties. 2. Jay Cutler is extremely talented but it is plainly not enough. His ridiculous talent may actually be a liability to him. As he is getting older and more beat-up, the idea that he can force balls anywhere at anytime becomes more and more incorrect. And that talent to get away with things has perhaps meant that he has never learned how to manage the game or make the best play. (This is second hand speculation.) And, I completely agree that the Bills are the wrong situation for Cutler. And Cutler is the wrong QB for the Bills. Assuming Marrone and Hackett are kept another year, I see no evidence that they are going to be able to coach up Cutler where others have failed. To point: Trestman was a QB and has a long resume of coaching offense and QBs in the NFL and other levels. I do not see Hackett being anywhere near as competent. So I don't see the Bills as having the coaches who can get the most out of Cutler. And Cutler would be very bad for the Bills. Maybe the Bills make the playoffs this year, but if they don't then they extend their already ugly streak. Does this team really have 3 or 5 years to try to "fix Cutler"? I don't think so. I think they might come out further ahead with a guy that can manage games until they find the next Jim Kelly. If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, then don't get sidetracked with the goal of "fixing Jay Cutler". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 becaise you pick up an extra 3rd or 4th rounder and you can always just re-negotiate his contract. Oh, and he's still better than any QB we have in the roster and have had since #12. You live in an alternate reality, I'm convinced. There's no leverage to rework Cutler's deal, it's less than 11 months old and worth 126 million -- you think Cutler would just happily say, "gee, here's 100 million back, I don't need it"? It's not that easy -- and for a guy who doesn't think we should trade for him you're spending a lot of ink making the argument to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 cuter isn't going anywhere for 1 more year. can't say the same for his coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted December 21, 2014 Share Posted December 21, 2014 (edited) You need to look at the numbers or look at your math because you're not right about your first point or the numbers. Cutler is hot garbage with a huge contract. He doesn't help the Bills even if he is (and he isn't) better than what the Bills have now. Look at his stats this year, or his career and remember he has Marshall, Jefferies, and a real TE plus Forte as weapons. Chicago has a loaded team offensively -- like the Bills if not better -- and despite this cutler has put up worse numbers than anyone playing behind center for the bills this year. So Orton is the clear better QB over Cutler because you said so? What do you think an outside poll of non Bills and Bears fans would say? What do you think most commentators and/or experts would say? You feel most would say the Bills downgraded at QB for trading for Jay Cutler - if it were to happen? Howard Simon is on the radio right now saying Cutler is a clear upgrade of Orton. Edited December 21, 2014 by Triple Threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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