TheFunPolice Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Watching the game last week, the commentators said at one point that St. Doug had told them that he thinks you build a team first with defense, second with special teams, then offense. Couple that with his in-game decisions. Punting on 4th and short, playing field position, essentially being conservative. BTW, you want conservative? Try John Fox. With Peyton freaking Manning he kicked TWO field goals in one game on 4th and goal from the Chargers 1 yard line! Denver fans were on the verge of mutiny on their boards. In any event, Fox is a defensive minded HC. Play field position, make the conservative call, rely on your D. He has barely changed even with Manning as his QB. Assuming what St. Doug said to the announcing crew in the pre-game meetings was genuine, it matches exactly what the Bills have done. They had good players on D and the two Dougs went after more in the draft. A lot of that was in place, but they have augmented the talent level on D. As far as special teams, maybe that explains his two kickers (BTW John Fox also now has two kickers on gamedays). Carpenter can be saved for FG (on which he is money) and if somehow he is injured Gay can kick them. That shows a tremendous investment in special teams. The two Dougs have also been able to find/get some greeat production out of the roster and even the waiver wire on special teams. This bring us to the offense. Assuming the above is not spin by Marrone, we should assume some big time investments on offense are coming in the offseason. I do think the OL has gotten better, even if it went from awful to mediocre. There are a few decent playmakers on offense. QB is really holding them back (I know, not exactly a newsflash). But I was thinking a lot about what the commentators for the Bills/Packers game were saying and if you just accept that Marrone is actually a defensive minded head coach, then everything he has done in terms of decisions and even most roster decisions makes a lot more sense. I think we assumed he was an offensive mastermind, but maybe he is more concerned with defense and special teams. Chan had a lot of these same players and the defense was a dumpster fire. Marrone has told us that he is involved in all 3 phases, and his defenses have been great. If Chan gets blamed for the D (rightfully so) St. Doug gets credit for his D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) You're trying too hard. Guys who are NFL OCs don't magically become defensive coaches. He runs a crappy offense. He lucked into a loaded defense and had 2 good DC hires. Marrone is a crappy offensive coach who is being saved by great defense talent. Gailey wasn't the reason the defense sucked but since he was the head coach, he takes the fall for it. Edited December 18, 2014 by C.Biscuit97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 No. One of the first things he did were hire an OC with no NFL experience at that position and installed a no huddle offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Idk, Marrone seems pretty defensive whenever i hear him on the radio and whatnot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Is say he is trying to make himself look good by saying " I've focused on D and the. sT and then O" which is how crappy they have been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 When Tomlin became the head coach of the Steelers he retained Dick Lebeau as defensive coordinator. Tomlin was a great leader and a former defensive coordinator but he realized the Lebeau was a great defensive coach. Marrone should lead the Bills but should hire a more qualified offensive coordinator in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 When Tomlin became the head coach of the Steelers he retained Dick Lebeau as defensive coordinator. Tomlin was a great leader and a former defensive coordinator but he realized the Lebeau was a great defensive coach. Marrone should lead the Bills but should hire a more qualified offensive coordinator in my opinion. That would be a great idea that I doubt Marrone would ever do. It's possible but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) Marrone might be so defensive minded that he doesn't even want our offense to score. It would explain a lot of his decisions and actions. That would be a great idea that I doubt Marrone would ever do. It's possible but I doubt it. I agree and would be 100% behind Marrone if he and his thin skin hired a top notch OC. I just don't believe he ever will. Edited December 18, 2014 by 4merper4mer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Don't think he is a defensive coach. Maybe he values a good defense and prefers to build a team that way. He had his Syracuse teams playing good hard defense, keeping them in games, similar to what Buffalo is doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 he has been the benefactor of 2 really good defensive coordinators. i'm not giving St. Doug any of the credit. If he gets a real Offensive Coordinator in here then maybe he might look like he knows what he's doing out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QB Bills Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Watching the game last week, the commentators said at one point that St. Doug had told them that he thinks you build a team first with defense, second with special teams, then offense. Couple that with his in-game decisions. Punting on 4th and short, playing field position, essentially being conservative. BTW, you want conservative? Try John Fox. With Peyton freaking Manning he kicked TWO field goals in one game on 4th and goal from the Chargers 1 yard line! Denver fans were on the verge of mutiny on their boards. In any event, Fox is a defensive minded HC. Play field position, make the conservative call, rely on your D. He has barely changed even with Manning as his QB. Assuming what St. Doug said to the announcing crew in the pre-game meetings was genuine, it matches exactly what the Bills have done. They had good players on D and the two Dougs went after more in the draft. A lot of that was in place, but they have augmented the talent level on D. As far as special teams, maybe that explains his two kickers (BTW John Fox also now has two kickers on gamedays). Carpenter can be saved for FG (on which he is money) and if somehow he is injured Gay can kick them. That shows a tremendous investment in special teams. The two Dougs have also been able to find/get some greeat production out of the roster and even the waiver wire on special teams. This bring us to the offense. Assuming the above is not spin by Marrone, we should assume some big time investments on offense are coming in the offseason. I do think the OL has gotten better, even if it went from awful to mediocre. There are a few decent playmakers on offense. QB is really holding them back (I know, not exactly a newsflash). But I was thinking a lot about what the commentators for the Bills/Packers game were saying and if you just accept that Marrone is actually a defensive minded head coach, then everything he has done in terms of decisions and even most roster decisions makes a lot more sense. I think we assumed he was an offensive mastermind, but maybe he is more concerned with defense and special teams. Chan had a lot of these same players and the defense was a dumpster fire. Marrone has told us that he is involved in all 3 phases, and his defenses have been great. If Chan gets blamed for the D (rightfully so) St. Doug gets credit for his D. He's conservative, not defensive-minded. Chan doesn't get blamed for the defense. He gets blamed for who he hired to run the defense. He managed the offense and did okay, relatively speaking. Marrone also shouldn't get credit for the defense, just credit for who he hired. He also manages the offense (with his sidekick) and the offense has been abysmal under his watch. He's a poor head coach and if this team ever wants to go anywhere, he needs to be replaced asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whack 'Em Williams Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 best offense is a good defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Any good leader knows that you coach / manage to your teams strengths and try to alleviate their weaknesses. I think he's done that pretty well this year when you look at the big picture of the season and consider he's only a 2nd year coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Marrone is a crappy offensive coach who is being saved by great defense talent. Gailey wasn't the reason the defense sucked but since he was the head coach, he takes the fall for it. I liked Gailey, but he rightly took the fall for hiring two terrible DCs. Marrone has hired two good DCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 So St. Doug doesn't get credit for the defense or special teams? I'm not saying I love the guy, but this team would have quit weeks ago under "tough gah" Gailey. Marrone has these guys playing hard and winning. They are not getting blown out, even when they lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whack 'Em Williams Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Idk, Marrone seems pretty defensive whenever i hear him on the radio and whatnot LMAO Watching the game last week, the commentators said at one point that St. Doug had told them that he thinks you build a team first with defense, second with special teams, then offense. Couple that with his in-game decisions. Punting on 4th and short, playing field position, essentially being conservative. BTW, you want conservative? Try John Fox. With Peyton freaking Manning he kicked TWO field goals in one game on 4th and goal from the Chargers 1 yard line! Denver fans were on the verge of mutiny on their boards. In any event, Fox is a defensive minded HC. Play field position, make the conservative call, rely on your D. He has barely changed even with Manning as his QB. Assuming what St. Doug said to the announcing crew in the pre-game meetings was genuine, it matches exactly what the Bills have done. They had good players on D and the two Dougs went after more in the draft. A lot of that was in place, but they have augmented the talent level on D. As far as special teams, maybe that explains his two kickers (BTW John Fox also now has two kickers on gamedays). Carpenter can be saved for FG (on which he is money) and if somehow he is injured Gay can kick them. That shows a tremendous investment in special teams. The two Dougs have also been able to find/get some greeat production out of the roster and even the waiver wire on special teams. This bring us to the offense. Assuming the above is not spin by Marrone, we should assume some big time investments on offense are coming in the offseason. I do think the OL has gotten better, even if it went from awful to mediocre. There are a few decent playmakers on offense. QB is really holding them back (I know, not exactly a newsflash). But I was thinking a lot about what the commentators for the Bills/Packers game were saying and if you just accept that Marrone is actually a defensive minded head coach, then everything he has done in terms of decisions and even most roster decisions makes a lot more sense. I think we assumed he was an offensive mastermind, but maybe he is more concerned with defense and special teams. Chan had a lot of these same players and the defense was a dumpster fire. Marrone has told us that he is involved in all 3 phases, and his defenses have been great. If Chan gets blamed for the D (rightfully so) St. Doug gets credit for his D. Can't argue against of this. Nice post OP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 You're trying too hard. Guys who are NFL OCs don't magically become defensive coaches. He runs a crappy offense. He lucked into a loaded defense and had 2 good DC hires. Marrone is a crappy offensive coach who is being saved by great defense talent. Gailey wasn't the reason the defense sucked but since he was the head coach, he takes the fall for it. Actually he was, as he hired his buddy in George Edwards, and after his first year of failure when everyone wanted him gone. He then kept Edwards and brought in his next buddy in Dave Wannstedt to be the LBer coach. Ole Dave took over Gailey's third year. The mere fact that Marrone had no idea Hughes was benched during a game leads me to believe he is clueless about what transpires on defense. I kinda get the same idea about the offense because it has sucked so bad for so long. My take is that his good buddy Danny was nearly crucified last season so he is going all out every game to ensure the Special teams are doing well. Dunno what happened in Denver tho when they clearly crapped the bed. As others have pointed out he runs a conservative passing, running offense. I'd say up the middle 70% of the time is quite conservative, and predictable. Marrone might be so defensive minded that he doesn't even want our offense to score. It would explain a lot of his decisions and actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Actually he was, as he hired his buddy in George Edwards, and after his first year of failure when everyone wanted him gone. He then kept Edwards and brought in his next buddy in Dave Wannstedt to be the LBer coach. Ole Dave took over Gailey's third year. The mere fact that Marrone had no idea Hughes was benched during a game leads me to believe he is clueless about what transpires on defense. I kinda get the same idea about the offense because it has sucked so bad for so long. My take is that his good buddy Danny was nearly crucified last season so he is going all out every game to ensure the Special teams are doing well. Dunno what happened in Denver tho when they clearly crapped the bed. As others have pointed out he runs a conservative passing, running offense. I'd say up the middle 70% of the time is quite conservative, and predictable. I'm with you on this. The Crossman topic makes me laugh. People think that now he is magically a good coach. The answer is that the Bills have 7 players on the roster only for ST (Gay, Carpenter, Easley, Dean, Sanborn, Schmidt & Thigpen). They also signed guys specifically because they were really good ST players (Dixon and Graham) and then they play a lot of starters on ST. They are good on ST not because Crossman is good but because they have applied a disproportionate amount of resources towards it compared to the rest of the league. Marrone is a good leader & motivator. The offensive coaching is lousy. I don't know where the blame goes (probably spread some). Name 1 offensive position group that has progressed as this year has gone along? I don't think that there are any. The defensive side of the ball is the exact opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I'm with you on this. The Crossman topic makes me laugh. People think that now he is magically a good coach. The answer is that the Bills have 7 players on the roster only for ST (Gay, Carpenter, Easley, Dean, Sanborn, Schmidt & Thigpen). They also signed guys specifically because they were really good ST players (Dixon and Graham) and then they play a lot of starters on ST. They are good on ST not because Crossman is good but because they have applied a disproportionate amount of resources towards it compared to the rest of the league. Marrone is a good leader & motivator. The offensive coaching is lousy. I don't know where the blame goes (probably spread some). Name 1 offensive position group that has progressed as this year has gone along? I don't think that there are any. The defensive side of the ball is the exact opposite. Yup. Yup. And yup. My take is that Marrone wants to be Sean Peyton. Highly respected and successful HC, who is also known for being a very smart Offensive Mind who runs the offense. Marrone lived that success, and played a good sized role in it. He has Hackett playing the Marrone role in this scenario. The only difference is that Peyton calls the plays and Marrone lets Hackett call most. But Marrone isn't, or hasn't shown to be, the offensive mind that Sean Peyton is. And it's showing more and more. And yes, I know that Peyton has Brees, but Peyton is a great coach. And that doesn't mean Marrone is a crappy HC. He's doing very well in other, equally important areas. IMO, if Marrone would give up the Peyton model for the Marv Levy model, and become an overall manager type of the team, as well as its clear fearless leader and motivator, all while letting the experienced OC and the DC* and STC run their respective units, overseeing all of them, he would be a much better coach and we would be a much better team. *Marv blew it doing this by not recognizing that Walt Corey sucked, which is why we lost the 4 SBs, but that's a different topic and issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) If that's true how Doug feels then why was that the first time we heard of him saying it? Why would they draft a QB when they did if building a defense which wasn't whst it is now at the time instead of a defensive player to improve the defense? Marrone is a ridiculously conservative coach which isn't the same as a defensive minded head coach. Edited December 18, 2014 by Max997 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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