SJ13

[YoloinOhio]

When it rains it pours I guess

 

Matthew Coller ‏@MatthewWGR 12m12 minutes ago

Oh gosh...Stevie Johnson is No. 3 in the NFL in Estimated Points Per Play and has the highest catch rate in the NFL http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/stats/offensive-players/wide-receivers …

[26CornerBlitz]

St. Doug says

[YoloinOhio]

On the bright side, he's probably getting us a 3rd rd pick instead of a 4th rd pick.

Edited November 18, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[GunnerBill]

I miss Stevie. There. I said it.

[FireChan]

I'll reserve judgement until he has to catch the game-winning TD to make the playoffs.

[prissythecat]

On the bright side, he's probably getting us a 3rd rd pick instead of a 4th rd pick.

 

I'm hoping for that as well.

[BringBackFergy]

On the bright side, he's probably getting us a 3rd rd pick instead of a 4th rd pick.

Maybe we can draft another Kuondjo (sp?)....I hear there's another one out there.

[peterpan]

We never should have traded him. It was obvious all year and It was obvious the moment we traded him.

 

Ugh

[John from Riverside]

Given what has happened with Mike Williams I tend to agree

 

BUT

 

Sammy Watkins is the man on this team......and how do we know that Stevie wouldnt be locker room bitching about catches at this point.

[YoloinOhio]

Given what has happened with Mike Williams I tend to agree

 

BUT

 

Sammy Watkins is the man on this team......and how do we know that Stevie wouldnt be locker room bitching about catches at this point.

From what I heard (grain of salt but this is from another FO guy who was called by the Bills) this was a concern. They thought his role would be diminished because they wanted to feature Woods and Watkins and they thought he would not handle that well based on incidents in the past.

 

I am not advocating it based on our current situation. That's just the story.

[zonabb]

First of all, this guy is one of the kings of lazy use of other people's useless stats. It's easy to throw out other's work to try to seem intelligent, as everyone at WGR55 does. Media people who spend their life's covering games (not real life, games) are somehow people we should turn to for advanced stats? I think not. They're trying to gain intellectual capital without actually having any. This is a case in point. When you can't even properly name the statistic, it shows an underlying weakness in thinking, namely actually understanding WTF you're talking about and reporting. The stat this buffoon is referring to is Expect Points Added Per Play, not Estimated Points Per Play. Stats are about precision, accuracy and validity and when you can't even take the time to know WTF stat your even referring to, it strips you of any credibility you may have had to discuss, refer to, or use stats to support your argument.

[FireChan]

From what I heard (grain of salt but this is from another FO guy who was called by the Bills) this was a concern. They thought his role would be diminished because they wanted to feature Woods and Watkins and they thought he would not handle that well based on incidents in the past.

 

I am not advocating it based on our current situation. That's just the story.

 

That and SJ's value would never be higher than it was when he was traded. Watkins was going to take a sizable amount of his production.

[thebug]

Andrew Sendejo is leading the league in rushing YPA. He's tied for first in 1st down % and tied for fewest fumbles.

[YoloinOhio]

That and SJ's value would never be higher than it was when he was traded. Watkins was going to take a sizable amount of his production.

If we get a 3rd rounder, it was a good trade. 4th rounder, still probably considering the Saints only got a 5th for Sproles and the Ravens got a 6th for Boldin.

[jr1]

he has 407 yards in 10 games

[cantankerous]

He's not a difference maker. I don't miss him at all.

[The Big Cat]

I was very clear about my opinion on Stevie. It remains unchanged.

[FireChan]

I was very clear about my opinion on Stevie. It remains unchanged.

 

Let's hear it, I forgot.

[1B4IDie]

Its possible that a trade can work well for both teams.

 

I think this is the case.

 

Doug Hackett would have wasted his improve talents, where his improve talents work well with Kaep.

 

The Bills get value for the vet. Pretty damn good value if compare to what we gave up for Mike Williams or what the Eagles got for DeSean Jackson.

 

it is a win win.

[Maury Ballstein]

 

 

it is a win win.

 

Except the winning part

[The Big Cat]

Let's hear it, I forgot.

 

Haha. Twist my arm.

 

He was focused on the wrong things. By not being tuned in to what mattered, he made bonehead plays--repeatedly--when it mattered most. And all the times he potentially cost the Bills a win (four times by my count) weren't offset by the games he did win for us (I don't recall many), and his antics CERTAINLY weren't offset by his cute little shenanigans that far too many Bills fans were enamored by.

 

I know, I know, he "loved" Buffalo. May be TO will let him borrow the key to the city some time.

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

Given what has happened with Mike Williams I tend to agree

 

BUT

 

Sammy Watkins is the man on this team......and how do we know that Stevie wouldnt be locker room bitching about catches at this point.

Despite all the maturity issues he had, over celebration, tweets blaming God, etc, I don't recall him every having issues about being a bad team mate.

[snamsnoops]

Sj13 was a pretty good player for us. Being a 6th rounder we got decent production during some of the worst times for B-lo. Trading him to San fran was the correct move. We get a decent draft pick n we allow our young guys more balls.

This season is nothing special for him. He is happy we r happy.

[Maury Ballstein]

Despite all the maturity issues he had, over celebration, tweets blaming God, etc, I don't recall him every having issues about being a bad team mate.

 

This. But cool story though

[The Big Cat]

This. But cool story though

 

Good team mates don't joke about blowing off the offseason conditioning plan.

 

In fact, good team mates don't blow off the offseason condition plan.

 

But let's pretend like the guy didn't have perpetual groin and hamstring issues that could have (most likely) been prevented if he was...you know...a good team mate and all.

 

Sorry. I have very strong opinions about this guy.

[John from Riverside]

Good team mates don't joke about blowing off the offseason conditioning plan.

 

In fact, good team mates don't blow off the offseason condition plan.

 

But let's pretend like the guy didn't have perpetual groin and hamstring issues that could have (most likely) been prevented if he was...you know...a good team mate and all.

 

Sorry. I have very strong opinions about this guy.

 

I dont have any hate for Stevie Johnson at all.....

 

I just think that the team needed to move on.......Stevie is UNCLUTCH.....he is however a very good receiver

 

Sammy to me is clutch....or at least he will be

 

I dont blame our WR's anyway....I think we have several good ones. I blame the coaches for this offensive mess

[The Real Buffalo Joe]

Good team mates don't joke about blowing off the offseason conditioning plan.

 

In fact, good team mates don't blow off the offseason condition plan.

 

But let's pretend like the guy didn't have perpetual groin and hamstring issues that could have (most likely) been prevented if he was...you know...a good team mate and all.

 

Sorry. I have very strong opinions about this guy.

I was never a Stevie fan, and I'm glad he's gone. But he never had any conflict issues with teammates, coaches etc. Even when Chan benched him for one of his celebration penelties, he took his tongue lashings and sat down.

[Mr. WEO]

When it rains it pours I guess

 

Matthew Coller ‏@MatthewWGR 12m12 minutes ago

Oh gosh...Stevie Johnson is No. 3 in the NFL in Estimated Points Per Play and has the highest catch rate in the NFL http://www.advancedf...eivers …

 

 

Stevie has 4 looks a game and 3 catches. He's the 3rd WR option on a team ranked 23rd in passing. He has one more catch (and one more TD) than Chris Hogan-who has a "catch rate" higher than SJs (81% v. 76%)--who somehow didn't make that stat list. Hogan is our 4th leading receiver....

 

That tweet and the SJ envy....ridiculous.

[FireChan]

WEO with the fatality.

[The Big Cat]

I dont have any hate for Stevie Johnson at all.....

 

I just think that the team needed to move on.......Stevie is UNCLUTCH.....he is however a very good receiver

 

Sammy to me is clutch....or at least he will be

 

I dont blame our WR's anyway....I think we have several good ones. I blame the coaches for this offensive mess

 

I'm only responding to YOU in THIS thread on this topic because I believe I see a sliver of daylight to have an actual, reasonable conversation about what you've asserted.

 

I maintain that the "offensive mess" is a REDZONE mess. We haven't really had much issue moving the ball, it's punching it in that we struggle with. This has been particularly true over the last two games when redzone success would have netted us should-have-been wins.

 

So, let's look at how/why we failed in the redzone over those last two games and determine if it's a.) the coaches' fault, as is always the knee jerk reaction here or b.) if may be--just may be--execution has been piss poor:

 

KC

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201411090buf.htm?drive_start=57&drive_end=66

 

So, we moved the ball all the way to the 8, then got sacked. Got the yardage back, and essentially had one shot at the endzone from where started. Was it the coach's fault that Orton got sacked? I think it's debatable without seeing the play, but I'd venture a guess that somewhere, execution broke down.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201411090buf.htm?drive_start=104&drive_end=115

 

Here we had two tries from the 3 when we only needed one more yard to get a fresh set of downs. This, you might chock up to coaching, but again, down to the 3 yard line, four points was lost by two different plays. I don't think we can say--definitively--that coaches and not execution cost us those points.

 

The other two redzone misses were: Brown's fumble. Coach's fault? I think not. And--of course--three straight throws to the endzone, at least one of which we all agree was an easy TD if Orton just hits Hogan. Coaching? Hardly.

 

MIA

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201411130mia.htm?drive_start=42&drive_end=59

 

I will concede that the play to Mike Williams was truly a head scratcher. Had him one on one on the outside, ran him into traffic instead. Then we had two plays just break down. So, one coaching blunder followed by two plays that just didn't pan out. Sounds to me like some better execution gets us four more points.

 

But while we're at it. Look at that drive length. That's what an "offensive mess" looks like? Hmmm. Looks pretty clean to me...until we get down to the 6.

 

Speaking of long drives, here's the one that kicked off the game:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201411130mia.htm?drive_start=20&drive_end=35

 

 

What killed this drive? The Chandler drop on 2nd and 4. Execution or coaching? Hmmm.

 

 

1,000 apologies for the formatting...this is NOT how it appeared in the original window. I'm guessing it's a conspiracy against rational thought.

Edited November 18, 2014 by The Big Cat

[Maury Ballstein]

Bob woods and mike Williams though ? Fail.

[Best Player Available]

Imagine where the team would be with him this season?

My guess is 5-5.

[boyst]

I like SJ13. I miss SJ13. I am happy he went on to find success and am more moved by the Lynch trade. A third will be a good deal for him.

 

Imagine where the team would be with him this season?

My guess is 5-5.

That is the sum of the truth.

 

He would not have changed anything for us this season, he'd be on the side chatting Mike Williams up and that does actually concern me with their personalities.

[PO'14]

Who the hell is SJ13?

[Billy in 4C]

Where are all the Bryce Brown lovers.... seems like they disappeared all of a sudden. Never should have got rid of SJ. He would be perfect in Hogan's role.

[The Big Cat]

Where are all the Bryce Brown lovers.... seems like they disappeared all of a sudden. Never should have got rid of SJ. He would be perfect in Hogan's role.

 

Hogan is perfect in Hogan's role: http://forums.twobil...20#entry3340258

Edited November 18, 2014 by The Big Cat

[YoloinOhio]

Where are all the Bryce Brown lovers.... seems like they disappeared all of a sudden. Never should have got rid of SJ. He would be perfect in Hogan's role.

Hogan has been more reliable in the slot than SJ was last year. And that's where he would have been.

[4merper4mer]

Where are all the Bryce Brown lovers.... seems like they disappeared all of a sudden. Never should have got rid of SJ. He would be perfect in Hogan's role.

 

For all the lack of use Brown has seen and the fumbling he has done when he got here.....at least he didn't rip anyone's thin skin with a funny t-shirt.

[John from Riverside]

I'm only responding to YOU in THIS thread on this topic because I believe I see a sliver of daylight to have an actual, reasonable conversation about what you've asserted.

 

I maintain that the "offensive mess" is a REDZONE mess. We haven't really had much issue moving the ball, it's punching it in that we struggle with. This has been particularly true over the last two games when redzone success would have netted us should-have-been wins.

 

So, let's look at how/why we failed in the redzone over those last two games and determine if it's a.) the coaches' fault, as is always the knee jerk reaction here or b.) if may be--just may be--execution has been piss poor:

 

KC

 

http://www.pro-footb...57&drive_end=66

 

So, we moved the ball all the way to the 8, then got sacked. Got the yardage back, and essentially had one shot at the endzone from where started. Was it the coach's fault that Orton got sacked? I think it's debatable without seeing the play, but I'd venture a guess that somewhere, execution broke down.

 

http://www.pro-footb...4&drive_end=115

 

Here we had two tries from the 3 when we only needed one more yard to get a fresh set of downs. This, you might chock up to coaching, but again, down to the 3 yard line, four points was lost by two different plays. I don't think we can say--definitively--that coaches and not execution cost us those points.

 

The other two redzone misses were: Brown's fumble. Coach's fault? I think not. And--of course--three straight throws to the endzone, at least one of which we all agree was an easy TD if Orton just hits Hogan. Coaching? Hardly.

 

MIA

http://www.pro-footb...42&drive_end=59

 

I will concede that the play to Mike Williams was truly a head scratcher. Had him one on one on the outside, ran him into traffic instead. Then we had two plays just break down. So, one coaching blunder followed by two plays that just didn't pan out. Sounds to me like some better execution gets us four more points.

 

But while we're at it. Look at that drive length. That's what an "offensive mess" looks like? Hmmm. Looks pretty clean to me...until we get down to the 6.

 

Speaking of long drives, here's the one that kicked off the game:

 

http://www.pro-footb...20&drive_end=35

 

 

What killed this drive? The Chandler drop on 2nd and 4. Execution or coaching? Hmmm.

 

 

1,000 apologies for the formatting...this is NOT how it appeared in the original window. I'm guessing it's a conspiracy against rational thought.

 

I just feel like there are times.....LOTS of times.....where we get cute in the red zone.

 

We have Frank the Tank and Booby. I know that Pears is crap and Urbik is average.......but we cant grind out a touchdown here? or for that matter....we cant look like we are going all in on a run and flip it to what would probably bee a wide open guy in the end zone on some of these plays?

 

 

I am trying to remember the last time we lined Frank Summers and Boobie Dickson and just tried to get a first and short....its crazy.

[The Big Cat]

For all the lack of use Brown has seen and the fumbling he has done when he got here.....at least he didn't rip anyone's thin skin with a funny t-shirt.

 

Exactly.

 

Like last year, after the Falcons game when Chandler ALSO fumbled the game away then afterword owned up to his mistake to the media while his team mate, who fumbled in that very same game, did not.

 

Or you could just continue to pretend, like all Stevie lovers do, that his behavior and his unclutchness have nothing to do with one another when it comes to how fans perceived him.

 

I just feel like there are times.....LOTS of times.....where we get cute in the red zone.

 

We have Frank the Tank and Booby. I know that Pears is crap and Urbik is average.......but we cant grind out a touchdown here? or for that matter....we cant look like we are going all in on a run and flip it to what would probably bee a wide open guy in the end zone on some of these plays?

 

 

I am trying to remember the last time we lined Frank Summers and Boobie Dickson and just tried to get a first and short....its crazy.

 

We did it several times against Miami, I believe. Just not inside the redzone. But in the first half, didn't they convert on like four straight third and shorts.