TheFunPolice Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Honestly, how can such enormous men be THAT bad at run blocking and pass protecting? Even just getting in front of defenders to impede their progress would seemingly help in pass protection. In the run game, it seems like huge guys pushing the DL should be able to open holes, but they don't. Is it a physical thing or are they blocking the wrong guys (or nobody)? If it's physical you really can't fix it. If it's mental THEN we could blame the coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 They're blocking the wrong guys. Don't understand why they can't figure out line stunts and twists. They should be practicing against it daily, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Pat Morris is no Joe D'Alessandris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 They're blocking the wrong guys. Don't understand why they can't figure out line stunts and twists. They should be practicing against it daily, I think. No kidding. Haven't these guys seen stunts for the 15-20 years they have been playing organized football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Honestly, how can such enormous men be THAT bad at run blocking and pass protecting? Even just getting in front of defenders to impede their progress would seemingly help in pass protection. In the run game, it seems like huge guys pushing the DL should be able to open holes, but they don't. Is it a physical thing or are they blocking the wrong guys (or nobody)? If it's physical you really can't fix it. If it's mental THEN we could blame the coaches. It's the lack of push in the run game that has me stumped. I understand that 2 rookies + one out of position Pears is just asking for trouble with the stunts on pass protection. But why so awful on the run blocking? Maybe it's lack of experience plus a little less talent than we thought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 They have tackle bodies. Guards are more compact ... think giant full back. Tackles are more stationary and rely on wing span to not let guys get around the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 They have tackle bodies. Guards are more compact ... think giant full back. Tackles are more stationary and rely on wing span to not let guys get around the corner. I think there's something to that ... I know guards are kind of devalued these days (how many get drafted in the first two rounds?), but not every failed tackle can be turned into a competent guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 It's the lack of push in the run game that has me stumped. I understand that 2 rookies + one out of position Pears is just asking for trouble with the stunts on pass protection. But why so awful on the run blocking? Maybe it's lack of experience plus a little less talent than we thought? They have tackle bodies. Guards are more compact ... think giant full back. Tackles are more stationary and rely on wing span to not let guys get around the corner. That is also mental errors. The linemen are supposed to initially engage the Dlinemen then go to the second level. They're confused as to who's supposed to pass Dlineman off and go to next level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Getty Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Not my area of expertise but as far a Richardson when he gets beat it just seems he is totally off balance and out of position. Looks like he isn't engaging his defender properly. So in his case i would say it is very poor technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) I think there's something to that ... I know guards are kind of devalued these days (how many get drafted in the first two rounds?), but not every failed tackle can be turned into a competent guard i think everyone would agree levitre was our best guard for a while. Listed @ 6'2", 302 ... thats just about perfect. Big enough to take on defenders, small enough to get low leverage, and quick enough to get out of the blocks and move around in space. Urbik is 6'5" 324, and Pears @ 6'8" 316 Edited October 22, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Why does New England only have white O-lineman,for the past 15 yrs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Its talent, or lack thereof...last year Colin Brown proved big isn't always better. My argument with the O line under Gailey 2010- 2011- 2012, and his use of Fitz and the spread offense was that his scheme made the RB & O line look far better then what it actually was. Here is why, Fitz had an uncanny ability to find the open receiver (SJ mostly) in 2.5 seconds or under. Because of that speed it almost completely negated the opposing pass rush to about all they could do is get their hands up, and hope for a knockdown. The other choice was to try and jam the receivers on the line, and put multiple coverage's on Stevie to take him away. So Levitre wasn't nearly worth what the Titans paid him. Then the same thing can be said about the RB's, and mostly CJ Spiller who really benefited from running behind that spread out O line, and getting the hand-off out of a passing shotgun formation. By 2012 opposing teams had figured out Gailey's quick-short passing scheme, and his running from passing formations and basically stopped it. They realized that Fitz's deep passing accuracy wasn't very good, and so they would stack the box to shut down the run lanes while jamming Stevie at the line. Suddenly Gailey's simplistic one dimensional passing / run offense was stopped. In 2013 under Marrone / Hackett the Bills wanted to run the ball until Spiller threw up, and not really knowing what they were doing they proceeded to slam Spiller / Freddie up the middle +70% of the time. Hence leading the league in rushing attempts, and #2 in rushing yards. Yet, only went 6-10, had almost no ball control because of poor O line play. The Bills were one of the worst teams in the NFL in 3 downs and out, and garnered the nickname the "hurry up and punt" offense. The Bills no longer had a QB who could get the ball out so quickly, and the result was also very poor pass protection. Now when you have so much lack of talent on that line it causes the better players to look bad because now they are not only focusing on their own jobs, they now have to worry about the bad players properly doing their jobs. It causes a loss of continuity. RT Henderson would be doing better if he had a solid player at RG next to him, and instead he has a player who shouldn't be playing OG. Cordy Glenn came out of that Vikings game with a very unlike him (-2.4) grade. 4 pressures, 2 sacks, one hit, one hurry. Rookie RT Henderson grades at (-19.1) Pears has a grade of (-17.2). It makes me wonder why Hairston hasn't gotten a shot at RT or RG. The Bills have two OG's on their PS, and you would think one of them has to be better then Pears. Anyway, there is a real reason as to why other teams draft OG's & OT's in the first round. The Dallas Cowboys spent their last two first round draft picks (2013-2014) on their O line, and it has helped them immensely in protecting their QB, and building a very potent run game. The 6-1 Cowboys are the #1 rushing team by yards, and first downs by rushing. The Bills need a serious influx of talent for that line, and some better coaching. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Marrone's not the OL genius some portray him as and many hope him to be. He's not. He's a meathead. Edited October 22, 2014 by Nanker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Part of the problem is playing former OTs at guard. In the case of Erik Pears, you cannot root out a decade of OT instincts in 8 weeks of practice. He sets like a tackle, kick-slides like a tackle, and tracks his defender like a tackle...and it's absolutely killing him. Making matters worse is that he's playing next to a rookie RT, and they are really struggling to make the exchange on stunts. In the case of Richardson, it's part inexperience and part being out-of-shape. He was an OT up until his junior season in college, at which time he switched to guard. He'll get better as he gets more accustomed to the position. He also needs to drop 15-20 lbs in the offseason and get stronger (and learn how to play with better pad level). The ability is there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 It's a little of both, OP. Since Marrone got here, he's singularly focused on huge physical OL, which is fine if you line 'em up and smack the guy in front of you. But No, he hires a Line coach to implement zone blocking schemes, better suited to smaller, more agile linemen. It's apparent he can't figure out why it's not working -which is mind-boggling to me. Now that we have 'aMassed' these huge guys, we need to hire an OL Coach who can utilize their strength -Marrone's insight be damned. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I think Richardson has got worse as things have one on in terms of run blocking. He was pretty awful in pass protection straight away, but against the Texans and the Lions he did an ok job in run blocking. The last two games he has got basically nothing right. At the same time Seantrel has started to very much look like a rookie once teams have switched to running these stunts. Straight up bull rush he can cope, but the twists and stunts generally seem to conclude with him being unbalanced and in poor body position to deal with the rusher by the point of engagement resulting in him getting beat too often. I still think Henderson will get there and I very much advocate the Bills sticking with him. At guard we have missed Chris Williams who was maybe a just below average NFL guard but that is better than what we have. The line play has suffered since he went down. I also think with Eric Wood he needs to tp worrying about the two guys either side of him and focus on his job because at the moment he is not playing the way he needs to play as a guy thee Bills see as a cornerstone of the franchise and have locked down long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Richardson is just too fat and top-heavy to move quickly enough to make the required blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 They are green enough to make mental mistakes and not athletic enough to recover from even small ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It's probably both physical and mental. Like bandit said, Pears needs to rewire himself to the guard position. On top of that, he's very tall for a guard, and not the fleetest of foot. With respect to Richardson, I can't speak to whether he's out of shape. That may be a problem for him, but the mental side of things appears to be killing that guy in pass protection. I spent a lot of time watching him at the stadium on Sunday, and he botched tons of exchanges on stunts. They HAD to sit him down this week. A play in the fourth quarter where Orton actually didn't get sacked is a good illustration of the Richardson problem. Orton had been sacked on the stunt shortly before this play, and the Vikings ran the combo again. I was looking right at it, and Orton must have been thinking the same thing I was: Richardson is not going to pick this up. Surprisingly, Richardson nailed the exchange, but by that time Orton had moved to his left and actually stepped into pressure. At that point Orton had no choice but to throw the ball away, and on that play the ball hit the down marker as it traveled out of bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) It ain't mental, that's for sure. These are pro football players we are talking about. This isn't theoretical physics. If you have the physical talent to move your body quickly and get in the way of someone else, you're a good Offensive lineman. If you are a big doofus, awkward, and can't move quickly...you will suck. Joe D. says you have to bend at the hips and knees if you want to be good. Edited October 23, 2014 by Stopthepain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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