Kevin Kolb injuries / release derailed Whaley / Nix plan for EJ

[Mr. WEO]

But remember last year they came up with the brilliant idea of not only throwing an extensive playbook at EJ but also trying to play fast. They eventually slowed things down and streamlined the plays.

 

So at the start of training camp we hear that they modified the offense and early on felt they were throwing too much at EJ. Duh! Then they said they were going to try and play fast again. They sure weren't setting him up to succeed. I guess if they play faster he doesn't have time to think and just reacts but that didn't seem to work.

 

EJ claimed the Bills playbook was simpler than the one they created for him a Fla St.....

[benderbender]

To respond to a few of you:

 

I have no problem with the Bills wanting to re-structure Fitz's contract. I would have done the same thing.

 

As to whether Fitz made the right decision: He is making less money than Kyle Orton and has been with three teams in the past three years (counting the last year with the Bills). He had been with the Bills for four years and could have re-structured to stay with the Bills and perhaps finish his career with the Bills and further cement his relationship with a community that he and his family loved. His son is still a Bills fan.

 

Instead, he resumed being a vagabond.

 

I don't begrudge Fitz for what he did. He is a smart guy and made the decision that he thought was best for him and his family. I wonder when all is said and done, if he had it to do all over again, whether he would have made the same decision.

Well said. Between what the prank call revealing about how Fitz was thought of by the FO, and being asked to restructure his contract was probably too much for him to bear and I don't fault him for feeling slighted. I think the FO cut him almost as an apology.

[K-9]

EJ claimed the Bills playbook was simpler than the one they created for him a Fla St.....

 

He's been properly humbled then.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[billykaykay]

Why should he "re-structure" his contract? I know what I'd do if my boss told me we still want you to work here, only for less money.

 

Besides, cap room was not an issue.

 

Dougs blew it.

Didn't Fitz make less money with Tennessee than he would have with Bflo?

[reddogblitz]

Didn't Fitz make less money with Tennessee than he would have with Bflo?

 

Not sure I follow. What is your point?

[BADOLBILZ]

59% comp percentage / 20 tds/ 6 Ints/ 2,900 yds... Do you think that would have been enough QB production to win 8 or 9 games for the Bills last year?

 

Those are Kolb's numbers from the 6 games he played in 2012 with Arizona before he got hurt( extrapolated out over a year.. which of course we know is conjecture..but reasonable conjecture). Not exactly Peyton Manning numbers.. but good enough to be a bridge QB for a year while the young team and QB develops and learns. Nobody is saying Kevin Kolb isn't / wasn't a journeyman..

 

It does matter what Whaley and Nix's intent/plan was because it speaks to whether or not they are competent.. and whether or not Whaley will be a competent GM going forward. Based on the other talent they have drafted/acquired through free agency I find it hard to believe that they thought EJ was an NFL ready QB.. I have to believe they thought he was a project.

 

Why is this Kolb thing such a crutch for people?

 

Extrapolated to 20 TD passes? The guy never threw even 10 TD passes in any of his NFL seasons.

 

I said this when they signed him.....he was THE laughingstock QB of the NFL.

 

Overdrafted kanoodler of a QB, then inexplicably traded for a first round pick and signed to a huge contract and he never produced a thing at the NFL level.

 

Fitz and Orton....and even Tarvaris Jacksons'.... career production look like pinball numbers compared to that POS. I literally can't believe people are still using him not morphing into something he never was as an excuse for management.

 

After witnessing first hand him breaking bones, separating joints and getting concussed by a simple tackle....ending his season....against THEIR OWN TEAM.....how could that team think he could survive an NFL season? It was either one of the stupidest moves in Bills history or an attempt to bring in a name brand tomato can for a rookie QB to kick over.

Edited October 2, 2014 by BADOLBEELZ

[The Jokeman]

Why is this Kolb thing such a crutch for people?

 

Extrapolated to 20 TD passes? The guy never threw even 10 TD passes in any of his NFL seasons.

 

I said this when they signed him.....he was THE laughingstock QB of the NFL.

 

Overdrafted kanoodler of a QB, then inexplicably traded for a first round pick and signed to a huge contract and he never produced a thing at the NFL level.

 

Fitz and Orton....and even Tarvaris Jacksons'.... career production look like pinball numbers compared to that POS. I literally can't believe people are still using him not morphing into something he never was as an excuse for management.

 

After witnessing first hand him breaking bones, separating joints and getting concussed by a simple tackle....ending his season....against THEIR OWN TEAM.....how could that team think he could survive an NFL season? It was either one of the stupidest moves in Bills history or an attempt to bring in a name brand tomato can for a rookie QB to kick over.

Ironically releasing Jackson might have also hurt this team as I wonder if he would have started or given us the veteran we needed behind/ahead Manuel. As let's not forget we had Jackson in fold but cut him after acquiring Kolb. I'm not saying Manuel is beyond repair like many here but quite frankly his career path too me feels too short. I realize that the Bills are in a win now mantra and it might work out we make the playoffs this year but it still gives a big time question mark as to who the long term QB of the Bills will be as it's been one we've been looking for since Jim Kelly retired.

[FireChan]

Why is this Kolb thing such a crutch for people?

 

Extrapolated to 20 TD passes? The guy never threw even 10 TD passes in any of his NFL seasons.

 

I said this when they signed him.....he was THE laughingstock QB of the NFL.

 

Overdrafted kanoodler of a QB, then inexplicably traded for a first round pick and signed to a huge contract and he never produced a thing at the NFL level.

 

Fitz and Orton....and even Tarvaris Jacksons'.... career production look like pinball numbers compared to that POS. I literally can't believe people are still using him not morphing into something he never was as an excuse for management.

 

After witnessing first hand him breaking bones, separating joints and getting concussed by a simple tackle....ending his season....against THEIR OWN TEAM.....how could that team think he could survive an NFL season? It was either one of the stupidest moves in Bills history or an attempt to bring in a name brand tomato can for a rookie QB to kick over.

 

Any plan based on Kevin Kolb staying healthy is a bad plan.

[Coach Tuesday]

I'm tired of the "Fitz wouldn't restructure" myth. Fitz has said (and said again last week) that all he wanted was a chance to compete for the starting spot. The Bills messed up by telling him he'd have to restructure before there was another QB on the roster to compete with, and by telling him he'd have to return as a backup. All they had to do was delay the decision until training camp and let him participate in the QB competition. If EJ had beat out Fitz, he'd have restructured. If Fitz had beat out EJ, he wouldn't and shouldn't have had to. The whole "Fitz refused a pay cut" argument is a total straw man.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Coach Tuesday

[PolishDave]

Why is this Kolb thing such a crutch for people?

 

Extrapolated to 20 TD passes? The guy never threw even 10 TD passes in any of his NFL seasons.

 

I said this when they signed him.....he was THE laughingstock QB of the NFL.

 

Overdrafted kanoodler of a QB, then inexplicably traded for a first round pick and signed to a huge contract and he never produced a thing at the NFL level.

 

Fitz and Orton....and even Tarvaris Jacksons'.... career production look like pinball numbers compared to that POS. I literally can't believe people are still using him not morphing into something he never was as an excuse for management.

 

After witnessing first hand him breaking bones, separating joints and getting concussed by a simple tackle....ending his season....against THEIR OWN TEAM.....how could that team think he could survive an NFL season? It was either one of the stupidest moves in Bills history or an attempt to bring in a name brand tomato can for a rookie QB to kick over.

Agree 100%.

 

The only way a person would have any respect at all for Kolb is if they never watched him play prior to coming to Buffalo. Anyone who saw him play already knew that he sucked beyond belief. A lot of his games were just like EJ's game last week. Yep. That bad. You want some more of that?

 

Signing Kolb was a stop gap because Nix effed up the Fitz situation. It was a FUBAR of epic proportions. There is NO WAY IN HELL that Whaley and Nix honestly thought Kolb was good for anything other than a backup. And barely good enough for that. Seriously. If you people only saw him play you would agree.

 

He should not have even been in the NFL last year in my opinion. He fooled everyone. I don't think he even wanted to start. I think he came here perfectly content to sit the bench and collect his overly generous paycheck. He got exactly what he wanted.

[SJDK]

They wanted Thad and/or Tuel to be "system guys" who would know the offense inside and out by the time they ever saw the field and develope them long term that way. That's what I think anyway. I think they saw Kolb as the starter who would eventually be out performed by ej later in the season. I agree that it was not in the plan originally for ej to start the season. That being said, I would be willing to bet that ej takes a lot more chances down field during practice than he does during games. What about this year? Orton will probably get seriously injured because of our guard play and we will see ej again after the bye week

[1B4IDie]

We get to watch before out eyes how the NFL churns through talented players and puts them in a position to fail.

 

When it comes to measurables EJ Manuel is off the charts. EJ Manuel comes straight out of Central Casting for Franchise QB. He is Big, Tall, Strong, Smart, Works Hard and has a great Smile.

 

When it comes to getting it done on the field of play FSU, in a weak ACC conference surrounded by great skill position players he never was able to really shine.

 

Throughout the draft process opinions varied on EJ Manuel, everywhere from guaranteed 1st rounder to late round, development QB. All it takes is one GM to fall in love and a player becomes a 1st round pick. Whaley fell in love with EJ, traded back in the 1st round and picked up the QB he thought could become the Franchise QB and face of the franchise.

 

The current Bills QB, Fitzpatrick wasn't too thrilled on taking a significant pay cut in order to groom his replacement and wanted to get cut rather than take a paycut. So off walked that veteran QB that can teach the rookie QB how to make in the NFL. The new rookie Head Coach walked into One Bills Drive prior to draft day with his rookie Offensive Coordinating and signed and often injured veteran QB in place of the flawed, Fitzpatrick.

 

So at the start of Bills training camp, there you have the Rookie Franchise QB of the future EJ Manuel, surrounded by a rookie HC, rookie GM, Rookie OC, Shell Shocked injury prone  veteran QB and Undrafted Rookie Free Agent QB; Red Flags anyone?

 

The shell shocked injury prone QB, I cannot make this up, slips on a mat and is out for training camp. When he finally makes it back to practice and plays in Pre Season game a rather pedestrian hit on the helmet from a knee sends the shellshocked, injury prone QB out of the league. The Bills bring in a former Heisman trophy winning college QB that can't hack in the pros and trade from an Undrafted QB that also didn't shine in a weak ACC conference.  OC, an undrafted QB and Undrafted Rookie Free Agent QB; Red Flags anyone?

 

Do you think EJ could have benefited from a year of watching Fitzy play? A year of watching anyone play? A year of the rookie HC and rookie OC go through some growing pains of their own with someone other than the Franchise QB of the Future?

 

This is the Ballad of EJ Manuel, a QB in over his head, and not a lot of experienced support to help him.

[Coach Tuesday]

We get to watch before out eyes how the NFL churns through talented players and puts them in a position to fail.

 

When it comes to measurables EJ Manuel is off the charts. EJ Manuel comes straight out of Central Casting for Franchise QB. He is Big, Tall, Strong, Smart, Works Hard and has a great Smile.

 

When it comes to getting it done on the field of play FSU, in a weak ACC conference surrounded by great skill position players he never was able to really shine.

 

Throughout the draft process opinions varied on EJ Manuel, everywhere from guaranteed 1st rounder to late round, development QB. All it takes is one GM to fall in love and a player becomes a 1st round pick. Whaley fell in love with EJ, traded back in the 1st round and picked up the QB he thought could become the Franchise QB and face of the franchise.

 

The current Bills QB, Fitzpatrick wasn't too thrilled on taking a significant pay cut in order to groom his replacement and wanted to get cut rather than take a paycut. So off walked that veteran QB that can teach the rookie QB how to make in the NFL. The new rookie Head Coach walked into One Bills Drive prior to draft day with his rookie Offensive Coordinating and signed and often injured veteran QB in place of the flawed, Fitzpatrick.

 

So at the start of Bills training camp, there you have the Rookie Franchise QB of the future EJ Manuel, surrounded by a rookie HC, rookie GM, Rookie OC, Shell Shocked injury prone veteran QB and Undrafted Rookie Free Agent QB; Red Flags anyone?

 

The shell shocked injury prone QB, I cannot make this up, slips on a mat and is out for training camp. When he finally makes it back to practice and plays in Pre Season game a rather pedestrian hit on the helmet from a knee sends the shellshocked, injury prone QB out of the league. The Bills bring in a former Heisman trophy winning college QB that can't hack in the pros and trade from an Undrafted QB that also didn't shine in a weak ACC conference. OC, an undrafted QB and Undrafted Rookie Free Agent QB; Red Flags anyone?

 

Do you think EJ could have benefited from a year of watching Fitzy play? A year of watching anyone play? A year of the rookie HC and rookie OC go through some growing pains of their own with someone other than the Franchise QB of the Future?

 

This is the Ballad of EJ Manuel, a QB in over his head, and not a lot of experienced support to help him.

 

Pretty much sums it up. In a competitive business environment, the management team that allowed this to happen would summarily be dismissed by the acquiring ownership group. Let's see what happens next offseason.

[BillsVet]

EJ claimed the Bills playbook was simpler than the one they created for him a Fla St.....

 

In his first mini-camp no less.

 

http://www.tomahawknation.com/florida-state-football-fsu-noles/2013/5/20/4347866/ej-manuel-buffalo-bills-offense-easier

[GhostofGailey]

No excuse - when Kolb slipped on the carpet then got knocked in the head, the coaching staff should have been smart enough to replace him, especially before the start of this season. Did they really think Tuel and Lewis could help EJ develop??

[CSBill]

Seems to me like most people around here and in the media have decided it was a foregone conclusion that Whaley and Marrone had planned on starting EJ from day one and that Kevin Kolb was just brought in to be a veteran presence/mentor.

 

I'm quite certain the Bills brain trust wanted to see a real QB competition during preseason 2013 and they were probably secretly hoping that Kolb would perform well enough to be the starter, thus buying EJ some time to observe and develop at a reasonable pace. There is no way on God's green earth that experienced talent evaluators like Whaley and Nix saw EJ as an NFL ready QB. I think they saw a guy with great physical tools and a great work ethic who needed some grooming. Kolb slipping on the mat and then getting that concussion completely derailed that plan and EJ was forced to step in and momentum just drove the situation from there.

 

It seems to be an accepted fact that the Bills made a huge mistake signing Kolb due to his injury history but I think that opinion is convenient Monday morning quarterbacking. EJ would have had a much better shot at success if he would have had to win his job rather than getting it by default through injury and Kolb was signed to be the bridge QB to facilitate that. Unfortunately fate did not allow that to happen.

 

Hopefully he will now have a chance to win his job back by earning it and his next opportunity won't come via injury.

 

Still a stupid plan, Kolb has been a porcelain doll all his life football life . . . what made them think he would last an entire NFL season in Buffalo? . . . was it the fantastic offensive line they had assemble last year, you know, the brave moves to let our starters sign elsewhere and HOPE the revolving door guards would at least get in the way of the defense . . . a stupid plan all along, his departure just came a bit earlier than normal

[Agent 91]

Well it was still a flawed plan. Putting aside Kolb's pre-Bills career of suckitude, they should've diversified their bets a bit more by bringing in/drafting another young QB at the same time. Osweiler, Mettenberger, etc. - someone to develop and groom along with EJ who could serve as a backup plan in the event that EJ and Kolb didn't work out. The idea that Tuel (or Lewis) could someday develop into starting-caliber players is ill-conceived at best.

 

Exactly. How do you give this guy competition agaon someone who was 1 hit away from beong out of the league. Then your only replacements are guys that you know EJ WILL beat.this guy is a student. He wants it. Make him learn. Make him compete.he wants to work. Barring injuries he will be a qb who can win. Its pretty telling that he went outside the team for mentoring isnt it?

[A Dog Named Kelso]

We get to watch before out eyes how the NFL churns through talented players and puts them in a position to fail.

 

When it comes to measurables EJ Manuel is off the charts. EJ Manuel comes straight out of Central Casting for Franchise QB. He is Big, Tall, Strong, Smart, Works Hard and has a great Smile.

 

When it comes to getting it done on the field of play FSU, in a weak ACC conference surrounded by great skill position players he never was able to really shine.

 

Throughout the draft process opinions varied on EJ Manuel, everywhere from guaranteed 1st rounder to late round, development QB. All it takes is one GM to fall in love and a player becomes a 1st round pick. Whaley fell in love with EJ, traded back in the 1st round and picked up the QB he thought could become the Franchise QB and face of the franchise.

 

The current Bills QB, Fitzpatrick wasn't too thrilled on taking a significant pay cut in order to groom his replacement and wanted to get cut rather than take a paycut. So off walked that veteran QB that can teach the rookie QB how to make in the NFL. The new rookie Head Coach walked into One Bills Drive prior to draft day with his rookie Offensive Coordinating and signed and often injured veteran QB in place of the flawed, Fitzpatrick.

 

So at the start of Bills training camp, there you have the Rookie Franchise QB of the future EJ Manuel, surrounded by a rookie HC, rookie GM, Rookie OC, Shell Shocked injury prone veteran QB and Undrafted Rookie Free Agent QB; Red Flags anyone?

 

The shell shocked injury prone QB, I cannot make this up, slips on a mat and is out for training camp. When he finally makes it back to practice and plays in Pre Season game a rather pedestrian hit on the helmet from a knee sends the shellshocked, injury prone QB out of the league. The Bills bring in a former Heisman trophy winning college QB that can't hack in the pros and trade from an Undrafted QB that also didn't shine in a weak ACC conference. OC, an undrafted QB and Undrafted Rookie Free Agent QB; Red Flags anyone?

 

Do you think EJ could have benefited from a year of watching Fitzy play? A year of watching anyone play? A year of the rookie HC and rookie OC go through some growing pains of their own with someone other than the Franchise QB of the Future?

 

This is the Ballad of EJ Manuel, a QB in over his head, and not a lot of experienced support to help him.

 

I do not think we know the who story with the bold text but the quote from below and this are basically exactly correct. I especially like how you point out the the Rookie HC, Rookie OC, and Rookie QB could have used the current experienced QB, not just any, but the one who also knew the current players.

 

I'm tired of the "Fitz wouldn't restructure" myth. Fitz has said (and said again last week) that all he wanted was a chance to compete for the starting spot. The Bills messed up by telling him he'd have to restructure before there was another QB on the roster to compete with, and by telling him he'd have to return as a backup. All they had to do was delay the decision until training camp and let him participate in the QB competition. If EJ had beat out Fitz, he'd have restructured. If Fitz had beat out EJ, he wouldn't and shouldn't have had to. The whole "Fitz refused a pay cut" argument is a total straw man.

[GG]

Let's take a walk down memory lane.

 

Here, here and here.

 

To say the Bills didn't completely screw things up in the spring of 2013 is an understatement.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Let's take a walk down memory lane.

 

Here, here and here.

 

To say the Bills didn't completely screw things up in the spring of 2013 is an understatement.

Ha, I am not going to do it but I bet you could find a few posters in those threads who "Now" think letting Fitz go was a bad idea. But I am sure at the time they were fervently against keeping him.