RuntheDamnBall Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Kind of like Fitz. I know everyone came away thinking "Damn, Fitz threw 3 picks but the guy really tries to win." I have no doubt in my mind that Mike Tomczak really tried to win, but he sucked. I am not sure where any of this "EJ doesn't try" stuff comes from... at all. If anything, I think the kid is trying too hard and once again has too many voices in his head. I'm hopeful, but over-coaching is no better than not enough of it. Good coaching is what he needs, and good coaching helps you develop trust in your own abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Is it my bad or yours? You're and your are not interchangeable. Yes, how could I have missed that in your sig that I've seen 1000X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I have no doubt in my mind that Mike Tomczak really tried to win, but he sucked. I am not sure where any of this "EJ doesn't try" stuff comes from... at all. If anything, I think the kid is trying too hard and once again has too many voices in his head. I'm hopeful, but over-coaching is no better than not enough of it. Good coaching is what he needs, and good coaching helps you develop trust in your own abilities. He can get help for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Fitz vs EJ. Hmnn. Can`t wait. Total QBR Rankings: #20 - Ryan Fitpatrick....(washed up) #31 - Geno Smith......(sucks) #32 - EJ Manuel......( not his fault, give him a couple more years ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I have missed the last 20 or so page of this thread since late on Sunday. So apologies if I am repeating things others have said: - Even for an EJ supporter, and I count myself among that number, Sunday was very worrying. It was the worst home game of his NFL career. The 2/3 real stinkers last year all came on the road. - He didn't get much help from the O-Line. I though Urbik in particular was terrible.... it won't be a popular view but we missed Chris Williams when he went out. - He is still learning and part of that learning is bouncing back the next game after that type of display. Here is hoping he comes out firing in Houston. - I still believe that if we were taking a shot on a QB in that 2013 draft class EJ was the right one to take a shot on. I don't care how lovely Geno's throwing motion looks, he is no more accurate than EJ and makes poorer decisions. And finally, just to throw the cat among the pidgeons (the pidgeons being the odd number of Tannehill lovers on here) for all that Sunday was bad we might well have the second best QB in the AFC East.... Tannehill is usless... his accuracy down the field makes EJ look like the second coming of Dan Marino. Even Philbin seems to have worked it out now. Tannehill sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Just so you know......you might have been playing nice in the beginning but your posts are getting worse and worse and everyone can see it....... So you speak for everyone now?! Congratulations. That's an awesome responsibility. Total QBR Rankings: #20 - Ryan Fitpatrick....(washed up) #31 - Geno Smith......(sucks) #32 - EJ Manuel......( not his fault, give him a couple more years ) Haha I really just looked into the QBR thing... It's not perfect but it's a lot better than what we had. One of the things it tells if you go back is that Orton is a solid middle of the pack QB...and it shows EJ is just awful... To me, I firmly believe that Orton could get this team to 9-10 wins and we need to win this year. Edited September 23, 2014 by The_Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Total QBR Rankings: #20 - Ryan Fitpatrick....(washed up) #31 - Geno Smith......(sucks) #32 - EJ Manuel......( not his fault, give him a couple more years ) Um, Derek Anderson is #1 in total QBR...this tells me all I need to know about the statistic. When I can see guys like Andy Dalton (3-0 with 1 turnover), Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, and Cam Newton (all of whom are 2-1) in the low 20's and guys like Anderson, Carson Palmer (who had a brutal week 1), Drew Stanton (and his 53% competions), and Brian Hoyer (who's 1-2 with 2 divisional losses) in the top 12, I feel like I can tell that this is a limited analytical tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Um, Derek Anderson is #1 in total QBR...this tells me all I need to know about the statistic. When I can see guys like Andy Dalton (3-0 with 1 turnover), Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, and Cam Newton (all of whom are 2-1) in the low 20's and guys like Anderson, Carson Palmer (who had a brutal week 1), Drew Stanton (and his 53% competions), and Brian Hoyer (who's 1-2 with 2 divisional losses) in the top 12, I feel like I can tell that this is a limited analytical tool. A quick primer on the fundamentals of Total Quarterback Rating: Scoring: 0-100, from low to high. An average QB would be at 50. Win Probability: All QB plays are scored based on how much they contribute to a win. By determining expected point totals for almost any situation, Total QBR is able to apply points to a quarterback based on every type of play he would be involved in. Dividing Credit: Total QBR factors in such things as overthrows, underthrows, yards after the catch and more to accurately determine how much a QB contributes to each play. Clutch Index: How critical a certain play is based on when it happens in a game is factored into the score. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6833215/explaining-statistics-total-quarterback-rating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Um, Derek Anderson is #1 in total QBR...this tells me all I need to know about the statistic. When I can see guys like Andy Dalton (3-0 with 1 turnover), Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, and Cam Newton (all of whom are 2-1) in the low 20's and guys like Anderson, Carson Palmer (who had a brutal week 1), Drew Stanton (and his 53% competions), and Brian Hoyer (who's 1-2 with 2 divisional losses) in the top 12, I feel like I can tell that this is a limited analytical tool. No, no. It proves "EJ sucks bro" so it is the end all be all. We should just fold the rest of the season, no sense in playing cause EJ suckzzzzzzzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 It's funny you should mention Geno because while he is very much unproven and seemingly more likely to throw a game away I prefer his style to EJs. EJ is the 'I'm gonna try to not lose the game' guy whereas Geno is the 'everything be damned, I'm gonna try and win' kind of guy. Yeah that pick 6 on a screen pass and a jump pass to a covered receiver that cost his team 14 points in a 7 point game is my kind of QB EJ has his faults but lets not act like Geno is any better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 A quick primer on the fundamentals of Total Quarterback Rating: Scoring: 0-100, from low to high. An average QB would be at 50. Win Probability: All QB plays are scored based on how much they contribute to a win. By determining expected point totals for almost any situation, Total QBR is able to apply points to a quarterback based on every type of play he would be involved in. Dividing Credit: Total QBR factors in such things as overthrows, underthrows, yards after the catch and more to accurately determine how much a QB contributes to each play. Clutch Index: How critical a certain play is based on when it happens in a game is factored into the score. http://espn.go.com/n...rterback-rating So based on this "Advanced stat" I should want Derek Anderson, Drew Stanton, Tony Romo, Austin Davis as the QB my team over Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, Wilson. Something seems flawed here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Um, Derek Anderson is #1 in total QBR...this tells me all I need to know about the statistic. When I can see guys like Andy Dalton (3-0 with 1 turnover), Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, and Cam Newton (all of whom are 2-1) in the low 20's and guys like Anderson, Carson Palmer (who had a brutal week 1), Drew Stanton (and his 53% competions), and Brian Hoyer (who's 1-2 with 2 divisional losses) in the top 12, I feel like I can tell that this is a limited analytical tool. We're 3 games into the season...Anderson had a good game and that's why he is where he is. If you look at previous years this tool is pretty accurate. No, no. It proves "EJ sucks bro" so it is the end all be all. We should just fold the rest of the season, no sense in playing cause EJ suckzzzzzzzz. No, it means we should switch to Orton... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 We're 3 games into the season...Anderson had a good game and that's why he is where he is. If you look at previous years this tool is pretty accurate. No, it means we should switch to Orton... I think we should trade for Derek Anderson or Drew Stanton, based on these first 3 games. Screw Kyle Orton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 So based on this "Advanced stat" I should want Derek Anderson, Drew Stanton, Tony Romo, Austin Davis as the QB my team over Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, Wilson. Something seems flawed here... Thru 3 games, Total QBR is telling you two important things: #1- there are 31 other QB's playing better than EJ. #2- EJ is NOT any better this year as compared to last year. EJ's Total QBR 2013 - 42.3 - Rank 28th 2014 - 31.1 - Rank 32nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 A quick primer on the fundamentals of Total Quarterback Rating: Scoring: 0-100, from low to high. An average QB would be at 50. Win Probability: All QB plays are scored based on how much they contribute to a win. By determining expected point totals for almost any situation, Total QBR is able to apply points to a quarterback based on every type of play he would be involved in. Dividing Credit: Total QBR factors in such things as overthrows, underthrows, yards after the catch and more to accurately determine how much a QB contributes to each play. Clutch Index: How critical a certain play is based on when it happens in a game is factored into the score. http://espn.go.com/n...rterback-rating I don't need a quick primer, I understand the metric just fine. I think that--if you are being honest with yourself--you'd agree that it's massively flawed if it gauges (for example) Drew Stanton as a better QB than Russell Wilson, especially if it takes nebulous articles like "clutch factor" into account. So based on this "Advanced stat" I should want Derek Anderson, Drew Stanton, Tony Romo, Austin Davis as the QB my team over Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, Wilson. Something seems flawed here... Yeah...I'm going to go ahead and wait on my heralding of QBR as the new defining characteristic for QBs. As much as it gets criticized, right now it looks like old-fashioned QB rating aligns most accurately with the best QBs of the young 2014 season: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Thru 3 games, Total QBR is telling you two important things: #1- there are 31 other QB's playing better than EJ. #2- EJ is NOT any better this year as compared to last year. EJ's Total QBR 2013 - 42.3 - Rank 28th 2014 - 31.1 - Rank 32nd QBR doesn't tell me EJ had two solid games and one bad game. Edited September 23, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 GINO!!! GINO!!! GINO!!! Gino!!! Gino!!! Gino!!! Gino!!! Gino!!! oh wait. never mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 We're 3 games into the season...Anderson had a good game and that's why he is where he is. If you look at previous years this tool is pretty accurate. So now we've arrived at the point of my statement: If we can't assess the validity of QBR based on the respective rankings of the guys I mentioned above, why is it valid to use as a measure of "proof" that EJ is being outplayed by Austin Davis or should be benched? Answer: it isn't a measure of proof. It is, at best, an incomplete case study. And regarding Anderson, he dinked and dunked his way to an okay game in week one, putting up 20 points against the worst team in football (the one that just surrendered 56 points in 3 quarters to Atlanta). If that makes him the best QB in football; yikes. QBR doesn't tell me EJ had two solid games and one bad game. In this instance, the eyeball test and common sense go a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Yeah that pick 6 on a screen pass and a jump pass to a covered receiver that cost his team 14 points in a 7 point game is my kind of QB EJ has his faults but lets not act like Geno is any better I'm not pounding the table stating that Geno is far and away better than EJ, though I do believe there is a case to be made that Geno is better...what Im saying is that if we're gonna have a bad QB I prefer one that at least attempts to win...not one that throws a safety from his endzone to avoid getting hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) I'm not pounding the table stating that Geno is far and away better than EJ, though I do believe there is a case to be made that Geno is better...what Im saying is that if we're gonna have a bad QB I prefer one that at least attempts to win...not one that throws a safety from his endzone to avoid getting hit. Perhaps you should look at history... Whoops..... http://www.giants.co...d0-ee1a6f342625 Edited September 23, 2014 by CountDorkula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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