Round 3: Sale of the team

[TheZone78]

 

 

Key word: estimate...and it's waaaaaaaay low from what I understand

 

You can add at least an additional 49%

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Rogers family: 7.4 billion

Tanenbaum: 1 billion

----------------------------------

8.4 billion

 

TPegs: 3.9 billion at the highest estimate

Not trying to be antagonistic but there are rumors that Pegula is worth double his reported net worth and virtually 100% liquid.

[ndirish1978]

You guys are real insane, You just don't get it.

This is by far the worst sign that the Bills are leaving Buffalo. This new group with out Bonjovi

Will bid over 2 Billion. They are in it to win it.

Tim Graham confirmed that the Ralph's Will does not Say they can't sell to out of town Bidders.

His Will says they have to sell to the highest bidder. This has been confirmed.

 

The lease that Ralph signed with Erie County says They can't move until 2022 with a 400 million Dollar buy out.

 

You guys just don't get it, as Canada's only NFL

Team they stand to make Billions.

 

They will just pony up the 400 Million and break the lease it's that simple. They will not spend

6 years waiting with empty stands at the Ralph.

 

They want this team and now that the Bon Jovi

financial handcuffs are off there bid watch out.

 

Terry Pegula better be prepared to pay over 2 Billion if he wants the Bills. The Canada groups

Face has been rubbed and dragged through

The mud and now there ready to blow all bidders

Out of the water.

 

I hate to say this but I got a bad feeling.

My stomach is churning and I'm upset.

 

I do not want my Bills leaving buffalo

It's like this group from Canada has 9 lives

We need to put a silver bullet through there heart

 

You are real incorrect, Randy Jackson

Your hero Tim Graham sold you out. He says your nemesis group is imploding and will not remain viable.

 

There's an opt out clause you missed, not 2022.

THEIR group will not purchase the team and proceed to flush 400M down the toilet to move them before the lease expired. You just don't get it.

 

You don't particularly need a silver bullet to kill a cat. That comment makes me concerned for small pets and any woodland creatures around you.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

 

 

Liquid, available assets, of only the people in the bidding group. Not "the family". Try again.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/07/18/rogers-joins-bon-jovi-and-tanenbaum-in-equal-stakes-bid-to-buy-bills

 

Sources say the Rogers family, and not Edward alone, is listed as an investor on the intention-to-bid document sent this week to the trust overseeing the sale of the Bills.

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-sources-bon-jovi-part-group-eyeing-bills

 

Rocker Jon Bon Jovi is part of a Toronto group that has retained a banking firm and submitted paperwork expressing interest in buying the Buffalo Bills, three people who have reviewed documents regarding the sale process told The Associated Press on Friday.

* * * * * *

 

The group includes Larry Tanenbaum and the Rogers family. Tanenbaum is chairman of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, which controls the NHL's Maple Leafs and NBA's Raptors. The Rogers family includes Edward Rogers, who is deputy chairman of Rogers, the Toronto communications giant.

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

. . .

 

Also the NFL, which hates relocation. Baltimore loses team, gets new team. cleveland loses team, gets new team. houston loses team, gets new team. . . .

And from that set of facts, you conclude that the NFL hates relocation? Who do you think approved the moves out of Baltimore, Cleveland and Houston? NFL owners afraid of losing a billion dollar antitrust suit, that's who:

 

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1995-11-30/news/1995334142_1_antitrust-laws-antitrust-case-tagliabue

 

"We have tremendous respect for the Browns fans, we have tremendous respect for the Baltimore fans, but we lost $50 million when we tried to protect another group of fans we had tremendous respect for, the fans of Oakland," Mr. Tagliabue said. "That's the nut of the problem."

 

This year, the NFL owners originally blocked the Rams' move to St. Louis, Mr. Tagliabue said. After the Rams threatened to file a $2.2 billion antitrust lawsuit, the owners backed down, finding the three-quarters majority to approve the move. There was too much money at stake.

 

I don't put much faith in pronouncements in the press by other owners that they would like to see the Bills remain in Buffalo. Even if that's true, it doesn't mean that they will risk $ by actually voting to block a move. I have not thoroughly researched the matter, but to the best of my knowledge the legislation Tagliabue wanted was never passed, so potential antitrust liability from blocking a relocation is still a risk for the other owners.

 

Obviously, the Wilson Trust could decide that it won't sell to any potential owner who is likely to move the team (if trust language relaxes the duty trustees otherwise have to maximize the sales price for the benefit of ALL beneficiaries - - including any charities).

 

But if any owner of any NFL team ever wants to relocate, history says that the other NFL owners won't block the move if threatened with an antitrust suit.

 

Don't take my word for it - - just believe Tagliabue's sworn testimony (unless some legislation passed since then that I'm not aware of).

 

I think I read somewhere that the NFL created some relocation guidelines with an eye to reducing antitrust exposure if it ever grew the balls to block a future team move. But since the Al Davis suit over the Raiders relocation, have the owners actually blocked ANY proposed team relocation?

 

Not to my knowledge - - though I could have missed something.

Edited August 31, 2014 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead

[jamiezzz]

I can't wait until this whole process is over!!

[thebandit27]

 

 

You can add at least an additional 49%

 

Yes, the number I heard was right around $6B, so it sounds like we've heard very similar figures.

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

 

Key word: estimate...and it's waaaaaaaay low from what I understand

 

Where has there even been an estimate over that amount? I thinker a safer estimate is that he is at about 3.3 billion.

 

Not trying to be antagonistic but there are rumors that Pegula is worth double his reported net worth and virtually 100% liquid.

 

No, I would love that to be true and no worries as we are all hoping for the same thing.

 

I don't understand, though, how some people over the last few weeks have previously done math, wherein he's worth so much, sells an asset that already had value, and then some think that it is brand new net worth.

 

If part of my worth is a $50,000 car and I sell it for $50,000 I am definitely more liquid, but I am still worth the same.

 

In no news report did I ever see that that $1.75 billion land sale started out as, say $200 million or so, in equity. I know he sold it for 1.75. I just don't know what it was valued at before he sold it.

Edited August 31, 2014 by dollars 2 donuts

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Where has there even been an estimate over that amount? I thinker a safer estimate is that he is at about 3.3 billion.

 

 

 

No, I would love that to be true and no worries as we are all hoping for the same thing.

 

I don't understand, though, how some people over the last few weeks have previously done math, wherein he's worth so much, sells an asset that already had value, and then some think that it is brand new net worth.

 

If part of my worth is a $50,000 car and I sell it for $50,000 I am definitely more liquid, but I am still worth the same.

 

In no news report did I ever see that that $1.75 billion land sale started out as, say $200 million or so, in equity. I know he sold it for 1.75. I just don't know what it was valued at before he sold it.

No one knows how much Pegula is worth because he has a lot more land. Currently worth about $5 billion CASH, probably twice as much cash as the entire Toronto group, but also has other assets he could sell for billions. Simply put he is filthy rich. He said it himself, If he needs more he can sell more or drill.

 

But means very little, this is not bidding war unless Toronto proves they wouldnt move the team. And common sense tells you why wouldnt Toronto move thee team. I have never believed Toronto was really in this.

Edited August 31, 2014 by TheTruthHurts

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

Any potential bidder would be aware the dictaes of the trust (the public would not know this), Or are you indicating bandit and twobills drive know this directive but actual bidders do not???

 

They are going to take the highest bid - and because 6yrs still exist (*thank god for us) the big bids from out of town did not bother...

However that is v different from saying RW told the Trust to not sell to relocating interests etccc making RW looking like a savior

 

If only 1 year existed on that lease - we would be crying the blues about losing the team to a very high bid from out of town

Okay, let's follow your logic for a moment. If you believe the highest bid wins no matter what then why aren't there any bidders from L.A.? Those guys could smoke any Toronto bid, right? Why did several potential bidders opt out when they saw what was expected of them?

 

Also don't forget that the NFL had to sign off on the lease. Polancarz said Russ Brandon negotiated the relocation clause into the lease over the objection of several owners. (You can guess which ones.) They can't just ignore a lease they signed in good faith.

[jahbonas]

Okay, let's follow your logic for a moment. If you believe the highest bid wins no matter what then why aren't there any bidders from L.A.? Those guys could smoke any Toronto bid, right? Why did several potential bidders opt out when they saw what was expected of them?

 

Also don't forget that the NFL had to sign off on the lease. Polancarz said Russ Brandon negotiated the relocation clause into the lease over the objection of several owners. (You can guess which ones.) They can't just ignore a lease they signed in good faith.

 

Logic - higher bidders from LA are scared off because of the remaining years on the lease - for the 1000th time its the Lease in place with 6 years remaining that is keeping out of town bidders away NOT a directive from RW to the trust to only sell to local people.

We fans are in a good spot because this transfer occurred so early in the lease which is keeping this from a true highest bidder wins situation. Its now highest bidder wins who is also willing to not move the team for 6 years.

 

If non-relocation was indeed the top priority over more money - then a look at JAx sale in 2011 at 780 million...allow a 5-10% inflation and you hit a fair value near 900 million - offer to a known local owner like Pegula and deal is done - team stays and the family made out well.

All actions indicate the TOP priority is to make RW and NFL owners most money possible on the sale - if it happens to be to a local owner who keeps the team here - thats fine too.

Or do you think a Pegula would balk at a $900 million offer?

 

A quick reminder to how these folks think. Remember when we were on the brink of a Superbowl trophy where maybe 1 more addition could put us over the top and win a trophy all us fans would die for?

Then RW and his buddy Littman (on the committee) cheap out and we lose all pro LT Will Wolford over maybe 2 million dollars. At the time RW was clearing perhaps 25 million/year in profit. Littman and Ralph chose to take the 25m profit and no wolford over the 23m profit and keep wolford locked up.

This is how they operate. 2 million more for 1 person and screw the million fans who would die for the SB win.

Yes Colts put a clause in contract difficult to match - this decision (as told by Polian) was done a year earlier when Polian asked Littman to lock up Wilford before he hits FA market and open us up to a clause like the one we didnt match

Edited August 31, 2014 by jahbonas

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

Where has there even been an estimate over that amount? I thinker a safer estimate is that he is at about 3.3 billion.

 

 

 

No, I would love that to be true and no worries as we are all hoping for the same thing.

 

I don't understand, though, how some people over the last few weeks have previously done math, wherein he's worth so much, sells an asset that already had value, and then some think that it is brand new net worth.

 

If part of my worth is a $50,000 car and I sell it for $50,000 I am definitely more liquid, but I am still worth the same.

 

In no news report did I ever see that that $1.75 billion land sale started out as, say $200 million or so, in equity. I know he sold it for 1.75. I just don't know what it was valued at before he sold it.

The reason is how much his assets (primarily land to drill on) have been appreciating like crazy since that report. I have heard over $6B but even if it is the $3.3B (or whatever is reported he has plenty of $).

[Kirby Jackson]

For the 1,000,000,000,000th time THE TRUST WILL NOT SELL TO ANYONE THAT WANTS TO MOVE THE TEAM!!!!!!!! This is like Groundhog Day. Every time a new piece of information comes out a certain group of people believe that the trust is going abandon their marching orders and sell the team to a group that will move them to Toronto. That just isn't the case.

 

Also, if you want to post the doom and gloom stuff please understand the process (ie there is no such thing as a $400M buyout). Instead of spending the time telling everyone how the team is gone and we are all idiots, use that 5 minutes to read the lease and non relocation agreement. There has been some great work done on the process by John Kryk, Tim Graham and our very own John Warwow.

[jimmy10]

For the 1,000,000,000,000th time THE TRUST WILL NOT SELL TO ANYONE THAT WANTS TO MOVE THE TEAM!!!!!!!! This is like Groundhog Day.

 

If it's like Groundhog Day, did you just act out the scene where Bill Murray smashes the alarm clock?

[Taro T]

For the 1,000,000,000,000th time THE TRUST WILL NOT SELL TO ANYONE THAT WANTS TO MOVE THE TEAM!!!!!!!! This is like Groundhog Day. Every time a new piece of information comes out a certain group of people believe that the trust is going abandon their marching orders and sell the team to a group that will move them to Toronto. That just isn't the case.

 

Also, if you want to post the doom and gloom stuff please understand the process (ie there is no such thing as a $400M buyout). Instead of spending the time telling everyone how the team is gone and we are all idiots, use that 5 minutes to read the lease and non relocation agreement. There has been some great work done on the process by John Kryk, Tim Graham and our very own John Warwow.

Soooo, you're saying the trust won't sell to anyone wanting to move the team unless the person wanting to move the team is an 80's longhair rocker and the destination is TO?

 

Kirby, thanks for all the info; please keep up the great work!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

For the 1,000,000,000,000th time THE TRUST WILL NOT SELL TO ANYONE THAT WANTS TO MOVE THE TEAM!!!!!!!! This is like Groundhog Day. Every time a new piece of information comes out a certain group of people believe that the trust is going abandon their marching orders and sell the team to a group that will move them to Toronto. That just isn't the case.

 

Also, if you want to post the doom and gloom stuff please understand the process (ie there is no such thing as a $400M buyout). Instead of spending the time telling everyone how the team is gone and we are all idiots, use that 5 minutes to read the lease and non relocation agreement. There has been some great work done on the process by John Kryk, Tim Graham and our very own John Warwow.

And also the NFL will not approve it. Why so many fans think the NFL is against us i dont know. What the NFL wants is someone who pays market value, which to me seems to be in $1-$1.15 billion range. The NFL wants a stadium.

 

The NFL is not in the relocation business. The only way the Bills relocate is if they cant get a stadium built.

Edited August 31, 2014 by TheTruthHurts

[jahbonas]

And also the NFL will not approve it. Why so many fans think the NFL is against us i dont know. What the NFL wants is someone who pays market value, which to me seems to be in $1-$1.15 billion range. The NFL wants a stadium.

 

The NFL is not in the relocation business. The only way the Bills relocate is if they cant get a stadium built.

 

And why does the NFL insist we get a new stadium ? They insist us regular people kick in $500 million towards a new stadium we dont need, and then us regular people pay resulting double our ticket price just so 32 people who are already billionaires can make more money??

And you somehow think 32 people like that are not against a 'small' market like Buffalo?

 

The team will stay in Buffalo out of no good will - it will stay because these 32 people are stuck with the 6 yrs remaining on the lease and they can do little about it. If they felt they could somehow move this team away and get more than market value - they would do so in a minute !!

 

For the 1,000,000,000,000th time THE TRUST WILL NOT SELL TO ANYONE THAT WANTS TO MOVE THE TEAM!!!!!!!! This is like Groundhog Day. Every time a new piece of information comes out a certain group of people believe that the trust is going abandon their marching orders and sell the team to a group that will move them to Toronto. That just isn't the case.

 

Also, if you want to post the doom and gloom stuff please understand the process (ie there is no such thing as a $400M buyout). Instead of spending the time telling everyone how the team is gone and we are all idiots, use that 5 minutes to read the lease and non relocation agreement. There has been some great work done on the process by John Kryk, Tim Graham and our very own John Warwow.

 

Yes you say this but - its based on WHAT????? Someone you know saw such language in the trust agreement?

 

You claim its there... I claim its not (else it would have been leaked to make RW look good).

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

And why does the NFL insist we get a new stadium ? They insist us regular people kick in $500 million towards a new stadium we dont need, and then us regular people pay resulting double our ticket price just so 32 people who are already billionaires can make more money??

And you somehow think 32 people like that are not against a 'small' market like Buffalo?

 

The team will stay in Buffalo out of no good will - it will stay because these 32 people are stuck with the 6 yrs remaining on the lease and they can do little about it. If they felt they could somehow move this team away and get more than market value - they would do so in a minute !!

They really don't get more money. They may get a little more shared revenue if the Bills played in a bigger market but that's it. That is why they want a new stadium because that number will rise in Buffalo. They will contribute a little bigger piece of the pie with a new stadium. In terms of the TV deal the NFL is already enormous. There are not new markets (at least in North America) that they need to expand to. They are already there. The NFL owners have virtually no say in the sales process. They will basically rubber stamp the person that the trust selects (almost certainly Pegula).

 

 

 

Yes you say this but - its based on WHAT????? Someone you know saw such language in the trust agreement?

 

You claim its there... I claim its not (else it would have been leaked to make RW look good).

If you knew where my information was coming from you wouldn't dispute it. In addition, anything that I have ever said would happen regarding the Bills has. It's not because I can see the future it's because the information is 100% rock solid. Again, you can choose to believe it or not but I don't say things on here unless they are true.

[TXBILLSFAN]

Catching up on the debate, a couple things I've noticed by reading the posts and NOT actually posting.

 

1- What's to say that JBJ's alleged departure from the Toronto group is anything more than a sign that he wants off a sinking ship ? That he wants to restore his image and that the MLSE/Tannebaum bid is in even more trouble now then before ?

 

2- I'm not sure why all of you are jumping down "jahbonas" ass for a simple question, which to be honest, hasn't been answered in the 50+ posts since he asked it or from what I can recall the 2 threads before this one.

 

I believe the question is, "Is the lease preventing the move or is their indeed language contained within the actual trust that forbids the trust from selling to a group that intends to relocate the team ?" We all know the LEASE prohibits the move and has restrictive language, I believe the question was whether the trust does as well, and if it does, why hasn't that language been leaked ?

 

Now, before all of you jump down my ass, I'm simply asking the same question that hasn't been answered, and saying the trust won't sell to a group that wants to move the team is NOT answering the question.

 

Again, I think the question is, "is their wording in the trust that prohibits relocation or is it just in the lease"

 

 

 

 

[bbb]

 

I don't understand, though, how some people over the last few weeks have previously done math, wherein he's worth so much, sells an asset that already had value, and then some think that it is brand new net worth.

 

If part of my worth is a $50,000 car and I sell it for $50,000 I am definitely more liquid, but I am still worth the same.

 

In no news report did I ever see that that $1.75 billion land sale started out as, say $200 million or so, in equity. I know he sold it for 1.75. I just don't know what it was valued at before he sold it.

 

There seems to a number of people on here who don't understand what net worth means.