EJ showed he can move the ball

[26CornerBlitz]

Why is that? I'm not saying I'm arguing for either, but EJ is in his second season and JFF is just starting his first. I think it's a lot different. And don't play the injury excuse card.

 

9 ^1/2 games of real NFL experience vs no games of real NFL experience. Bottom line is two inexperienced QBs who need further development. It's not that different and the jury is out on both of them.

Edited August 24, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz

[Robchester]

Just to be clear, was at the game with program in hand. TB had mostly 3rd string front 7 in the game to start second half. A few numbers i couldnt even find on the roster. There was no pressure and our receivers were coming wide open. Even then, EJ was late and high with throws. The honest truth is, he is stiff in his movement and either lacks confidence and/or is slow to process information.

[jaybee]

True. What really bothers me about EJ though are a couple of things. He has that deer in the headlights look, as though he is confused about what the opposing defense is throwing at him. And...much to my surprise several of the passes I've seen him throw just dont have a lot of zip on them.

 

Yea, he's new, I get that. He may end up being a great QB someday and I hope he does. Right now though, I look at Gino, Nassib and Simms and frankly to me they look to have much more control running an O than does EJ.

 

I'm very concerned about our QB situation overall.

[BillsFan17]

How many plays were negated because of penalties? If I was spiller I would have lost my mind. Every time the kid did something explosive the play was negated by a call.

 

How often did Manuel have someone in his face? Larry English of all people had two sacks, one the guy was absolutely unblocked.

 

How many times did players slip on our awful surface?

 

How often did we see the same three or four plays ran just to different sides of the field? As if marrone and Hackett were treating this like a practice and were going to keep running the same plays until they executed them correctly.

 

Not making excuses but there was so much wrong with our offense last night that goes beyond Manuel.

 

Moreover, I love hearing about how all these players looked so good against second team defenses but yet when Manuel absolutely torches a second team defense it gets discredited. The team came out with a totally different mind set and I think they said to them selves in the locker room to throw out the pre season game plan and go at this as if it was the regular season. Dress Rehearsal or not, you aren't going to show your play book, which was evident in the first half, then in the second there were plays that actually had me excited.

 

All-in-all, I come away from this game thinking we can still have a quality offense if they show some darn discipline.

[jaybee]

The honest truth is, he is stiff in his movement and either lacks confidence and/or is slow to process information.

 

I'm glad someone else said it first. Its painful to watch. Must have been a long afternoon for you fans at the game ey?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just to be clear, was at the game with program in hand. TB had mostly 3rd string front 7 in the game to start second half. A few numbers i couldnt even find on the roster. There was no pressure and our receivers were coming wide open. Even then, EJ was late and high with throws. The honest truth is, he is stiff in his movement and either lacks confidence and/or is slow to process information.

 

How many times did you notice EJ throwing the ball to a receiver before he was out of his break?

[vincec]

10-10 for 131 yards with 1 TD in the 2nd half. Meaningless against the Bucs 2nd string defense?

No. It's definitely better than stinking agains their second string defense too, but it doesn't erase the first half either.

[5 Wide]

Maybe this is nitpicking, but a play that really stood out for some reason was EJ's fumble. He clearly fumbled but afterward was pleading that he was down. Either he has no clue/feel for the game and honestly thought he was down or he is so desperate right now he was just pleading for something good to happen. It just seemed like something you don't see good QBs do.

[26CornerBlitz]

Maybe this is nitpicking, but a play that really stood out for some reason was EJ's fumble. He clearly fumbled but afterward was pleading that he was down. Either he has no clue/feel for the game and honestly thought he was down or he is so desperate right now he was just pleading for something good to happen. It just seemed like something you don't see good QBs do.

 

There are plenty of reasons to criticize EJ, but this is a real stretch.

[3rdand12]

How many plays were negated because of penalties? If I was spiller I would have lost my mind. Every time the kid did something explosive the play was negated by a call.

 

How often did Manuel have someone in his face? Larry English of all people had two sacks, one the guy was absolutely unblocked.

 

How many times did players slip on our awful surface?

 

How often did we see the same three or four plays ran just to different sides of the field? As if marrone and Hackett were treating this like a practice and were going to keep running the same plays until they executed them correctly.

 

Not making excuses but there was so much wrong with our offense last night that goes beyond Manuel.

 

Moreover, I love hearing about how all these players looked so good against second team defenses but yet when Manuel absolutely torches a second team defense it gets discredited. The team came out with a totally different mind set and I think they said to them selves in the locker room to throw out the pre season game plan and go at this as if it was the regular season. Dress Rehearsal or not, you aren't going to show your play book, which was evident in the first half, then in the second there were plays that actually had me excited.

 

All-in-all, I come away from this game thinking we can still have a quality offense if they show some darn discipline.

It was diificult to watch the first half with the players not executing as they should on the line.

I expected a little better play from them.

Going to be long tough season but I am still routing for them all the way ! ( see what i did there Jaybee ? ) : )

[Mark80]

You mean after playing 2 preseason games his rookie year? I'm undecided on JF, but it's rare when any rookie QB looks good in preseason. And if he does, it's likely meaningless. One should actually become concerned with poor play after their rookie year. The jury hasn't even been selected for JF.

 

Sort of like saying a QB is a bust after one season (shortened by injury) and a pre-season. Oh wait...that's only for our QBs I guess.

 

QBs need AT LEAST 2 years most of the time, AT LEAST.

Edited August 24, 2014 by Mark80

[What a Tuel]

Just to be clear, was at the game with program in hand. TB had mostly 3rd string front 7 in the game to start second half. A few numbers i couldnt even find on the roster. There was no pressure and our receivers were coming wide open. Even then, EJ was late and high with throws. The honest truth is, he is stiff in his movement and either lacks confidence and/or is slow to process information.

 

That is an exaggeration. There were a few 3rd stringers, but the majority were second string. Just to be clear, I have preseason live and the depth chart in hand.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10-10 for 131 yards with 1 TD in the 2nd half. Meaningless against the Bucs 2nd string defense?

If it were the starters it would have been meaningless because it's preseason.... So let's all just agree it's a all meaningless until Chicago

[vincec]

If it were the starters it would have been meaningless because it's preseason.... So let's all just agree it's a all meaningless until Chicago

And if he stinks vs Chicago it's still meaningless because he's a young QB who missed most of last season due to injury and is playing behind a questionable OL. It's easy to come up with excuses. Maybe one day we can come up with reasons to temper our excitement over excellent play instead of trying to rationalize crappy performances.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I see it's Christmastime for EJ haters again. Luckily for anyone who really gives a sh-- it's preseason.

 

I expect he'll be up and down. Hopefully more up than down.

[Kellyto83TD]

Hackett's new gameplan should be to injure starting DB's every play. Get Swatkins out there breaking knee-caps.

 

Hackett is limited by his QB. When will people start getting this fact?

[What a Tuel]

And if he stinks vs Chicago it's still meaningless because he's a young QB who missed most of last season due to injury and is playing behind a questionable OL. It's easy to come up with excuses. Maybe one day we can come up with reasons to temper our excitement over excellent play instead of trying to rationalize crappy performances.

 

It is also easy to run players out of town when they don't pass your "eye test".

 

Fans should be QB scouts, they can easily tell if a QB's "got it".

[26CornerBlitz]

Hackett is limited by his QB. When will people start getting this fact?

 

Fact!

[RuntheDamnBall]

Fact!

It's in Nathornielle Hacket's Wikipedia entry, along with his Civil War victories. What more do you want?

[26CornerBlitz]

It's in Nathornielle Hacket's Wikipedia entry, along with his Civil War victories. What more do you want?

 

Absolutely nothing.

[Kelly the Dog]

EJ had about 3-4 inexcusable passes where he had time and a man open and still missed him.

 

He had about 3-4 very good throws.

 

He had an inexcusable fumble, and the other turnover was a decent to good pass but Chandler just fell. Not EJs fault one bit.

 

The second half, against second and third stringers he played great, but he had all day and wide open guys. The thing is, the first half he missed a few of them which made everyone pull their hair out. The fact that the latter passes were against second stringers doesn't really matter. He had time and he made the necessary throws. If he hits those same throws in the first half, like one two to Robert Woods that I recall, we wouldn't be having this conversation about how bad he sucks.

 

He had a lousy, erratic game. He needs to hit open guys when the plays are there to be had and he missed at least three. He cannot fumble.

 

When everything slows down for him there is a decent chance that he is comfortable the whole time and he will play well enough to win. There is also a decent chance that he just has accuracy issues that he never gets over, and the 1-2 plays a game he does not make when he needs to are the difference between wins and losses so he becomes a bust.

 

We have no idea which of those two scenarios are going to play out.

 

You don't have the answer right now. With Sammy in there along with Woods, Williams and Goodwin, and a OL with more than one week together, and Spiller running like he is, we may still be explosive.

 

If EJ doesn't settle down and Hackett doesn't make good game plans and good calls, we won't.

 

You don't know, EJ doesn't know, Whaley doesn't know, el Petulante doesn't know.

[Reed83HOF]

It is also easy to run players out of town when they don't pass your "eye test".

 

Fans should be QB scouts, they can easily tell if a QB's "got it".

 

Fans tend to see things quicker than the teams do....

[RuntheDamnBall]

Fans tend to see things quicker than the teams do....

Tim Tebow has won 3 fan Super Bowls.

[Reed83HOF]

Tim Tebow has won 3 fan Super Bowls.

 

I think Bills fans know a garbage QB when they see one...

 

Touche` by the way

[What a Tuel]

Fans tend to see things quicker than the teams do....

 

Fans would like to think that.

[26CornerBlitz]

Posted elsewhere, but also relevant here and in many other threads:

 

@ChrisTrapasso

 

EJ missed Woods down seam (hit as he threw) & missed Hogan on similar play later, but other than that, he was accurate. Check downs > sacks.

 

Relative to how much WCO QBs check down, EJ didn't do so too often yesterday. Getting ball to Spiller / FJax is smart.

 

Another thing: EJ's throws on comeback to Williams and Woods, seam throw to Chandler, and rollout / TD to Williams were high-caliber tosses.

[hondo in seattle]

Fans tend to see things quicker than the teams do....

 

Really?

 

It's like me saying I know more about your work than you do.

 

I used to be an army officer and was struck by the clueless arrogance of some of the correspondents reporting on military operations. They had no idea what they were talking about but pontificated with confidence.

 

Marrone, Hackett, et al might not be geniuses. They might not be winners. But they sure as heck know more about NFL talent evaluation than anyone here.

 

We have no idea what concerns the coaching staff are sharing with each other, or what schemes they might be devising to work around EJ's weaknesses. They're not going to talk about these things publicly of course.

[Reed83HOF]

Fans would like to think that.

 

Were the Bills fans really off every QB we have had since JK?

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

No accurate QB no 1st round pick. No problem

[What a Tuel]

Were the Bills fans really off every QB we have had since JK?

 

Has JK been the best QB we have had in the last 20 years? Sure. What is your point?

 

We have been through 6 coaches, and 5 GMs since Kelly.

 

Are you saying our next GM should be a fan?

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

EJ is not a good QB. Sorry, but...... with our 1st round pick next year we can get Mariota or Hundley oh wait we don't pick until the mid-thirties next year

[Reed83HOF]

Has JK been the best QB we have had in the last 20 years? Sure. What is your point?

 

We have been through 6 coaches, and 5 GMs since Kelly.

 

Are you saying our next GM should be a fan?

 

My only point is in response to your post about that most fans can easily tell if a QB has got it...

 

Most fans were able to tell that every single one of them with the exception of the 1 year of statue-esque play of deadslow wre terrible and don't belong as a starting QB or in the NFL for that matter. As much as I hate Brady and say he sucks, he is a hell of a player that you can obviously play the game.

 

Ha ha not at all. Teams will stay married to a bad player longer than they should. Sports history is littered with that. The exceptions would be the Ravens & Pats*. they tend to let those players go and move on. Most GMs and HCs see it as a failure if a player didn't develop and will stay loyal longer than they should...

[Kelly the Dog]

Just saw this stat. It's hysterical and has obvious context issues, but Zach Metterberg leads the nFL is yards passing this preseason. Second is Ryan Nassib. Third is EJ Manuel. Lol.

[26CornerBlitz]

Posters who are killing EJ for the putrid 1st half performance vs the Bucs should go back and review the play by play of the Bills' drives or re-watch the 1st half: http://www.nfl.com/g...lyze=playbyplay

 

Buffalo Bills at 15:00

1-10-BUF 20 (14:59) 3-E.Manuel pass short left to 38-F.Summers to BUF 26 for 6 yards (51-D.Lansanah; 27-J.Banks).

2-4-BUF 26 (14:38) 28-C.Spiller up the middle to BUF 27 for 1 yard (98-C.McDonald, 59-M.Foster).

3-3-BUF 27 (14:11) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short left to 88-M.Goodwin to BUF 31 for 4 yards (27-J.Banks). PENALTY on TB-59-M.Foster, Unnecessary Roughness, 15 yards, enforced at BUF 31.

1-10-BUF 46 (13:57) 28-C.Spiller left end to 50 for 4 yards (27-J.Banks, 59-M.Foster).

2-6- (13:47) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short right to 22-F.Jackson.

3-6- (13:44) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short left intended for 84-S.Chandler INTERCEPTED by 38-D.Goldson at TB 44. 38-D.Goldson to TB 43 for -1 yards (84-S.Chandler).

 

Buffalo Bills at 11:46

1-10-BUF 6 (11:46) 22-F.Jackson right guard to BUF 6 for no gain (98-C.McDonald, 51-D.Lansanah).

2-10-BUF 6 (11:20) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to BUF 9 for 3 yards (59-M.Foster).

3-7-BUF 9 (10:47) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short right to 22-F.Jackson to BUF 12 for 3 yards (54-L.David, 50-D.Fletcher).

4-4-BUF 12 (10:12) 8-B.Moorman punts 34 yards to BUF 46, Center-65-G.Sanborn, downed by BUF-65-G.Sanborn.

 

Buffalo Bills at 09:27

1-10-TB 42 (9:27) 28-C.Spiller up the middle to TB 43 for -1 yards (51-D.Lansanah, 93-G.McCoy).

2-11-TB 43 (8:58) 3-E.Manuel pass short middle to 28-C.Spiller to TB 40 for 3 yards (54-L.David). FUMBLES (54-L.David), RECOVERED by TB-59-M.Foster at TB 37. 59-M.Foster to BUF 39 for 24 yards (3-E.Manuel).

 

Buffalo Bills at 06:28

9-M.Koenen kicks 70 yards from TB 35 to BUF -5. 88-M.Goodwin to BUF 17 for 22 yards (29-L.Johnson).

1-10-BUF 17 (6:24) 28-C.Spiller right end to BUF 21 for 4 yards (59-M.Foster, 94-A.Clayborn).

2-6-BUF 21 (5:56) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short right to 10-R.Woods.

3-6-BUF 21 (5:52) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short left to 19-Mi.Williams to BUF 33 for 12 yards (27-J.Banks).

1-10-BUF 33 (5:36) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short left to 19-Mi.Williams (27-J.Banks).

2-10-BUF 33 (5:34) 28-C.Spiller left end pushed ob at BUF 33 for no gain (27-J.Banks).

3-10-BUF 33 (5:08) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short middle to 10-R.Woods [98-C.McDonald].

4-10-BUF 33 (5:03) 8-B.Moorman punts 41 yards to TB 26, Center-65-G.Sanborn. 86-S.Patton to TB 34 for 8 yards (81-M.Easley, 33-R.Brooks).

 

Buffalo Bills at 02:04

1-10-BUF 7 (2:04) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short left to 10-R.Woods.

2-10-BUF 7 (2:00) (Shotgun) 28-C.Spiller left tackle to BUF 25 for 18 yards (23-M.Barron).

1-10-BUF 25 (1:31) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass deep right to 19-Mi.Williams pushed ob at BUF 45 for 20 yards (23-M.Barron).

1-10-BUF 45 (1:11) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short middle to 84-S.Chandler to 50 for 5 yards (54-L.David, 59-M.Foster). PENALTY on BUF-77-C.Glenn, Illegal Use of Hands, 10 yards, enforced at BUF 45 - No Play.

1-20-BUF 35 (:52) 28-C.Spiller left guard to TB 47 for 18 yards (33-D.Carr). PENALTY on BUF-79-E.Pears, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at BUF 35 - No Play.

1-30-BUF 25 (:30) (Shotgun) 22-F.Jackson up the middle to BUF 20 for -5 yards (93-G.McCoy, 98-C.McDonald).

2-35-BUF 20 (15:00) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short middle to 22-F.Jackson. PENALTY on BUF-3-E.Manuel, Illegal Forward Pass, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 20.

3-40-BUF 15 (14:52) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short left to 22-F.Jackson to BUF 25 for 10 yards (54-L.David).

4-30-BUF 25 (14:15) 8-B.Moorman punts 27 yards to TB 48, Center-65-G.Sanborn, downed by BUF-65-G.Sanborn.

 

Buffalo Bills at 09:58

9-M.Koenen kicks 67 yards from TB 35 to BUF -2. 88-M.Goodwin to BUF 20 for 22 yards (57-D.Munoz). Penalty on TB-[67d], Offside on Free Kick, offsetting, enforced at TB 35 - No Play. Penalty on BUF-85-L.Smith, Offensive Holding, offsetting.

9-M.Koenen kicks 65 yards from TB 35 to end zone, Touchback.

1-10-BUF 20 (9:52) 28-C.Spiller up the middle to BUF 19 for -1 yards (59-M.Foster, 98-C.McDonald).

2-11-BUF 19 (9:30) 3-E.Manuel pass short middle to 85-L.Smith to BUF 27 for 8 yards (54-L.David, 51-D.Lansanah).

3-3-BUF 27 (8:58) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short middle to 10-R.Woods (90-M.Johnson). Penalty on TB-33-D.Carr, Defensive Holding, declined. PENALTY on TB-27-J.Banks, Illegal Contact, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 27 - No Play.

1-10-BUF 32 (8:53) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short left to 28-C.Spiller to BUF 44 for 12 yards (59-M.Foster). PENALTY on BUF-70-E.Wood, Illegal Block Above the Waist, 10 yards, enforced at BUF 32 - No Play.

1-20-BUF 22 (8:34) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel sacked at BUF 17 for -5 yards (sack split by 90-M.Johnson and 94-A.Clayborn). FUMBLES (90-M.Johnson), RECOVERED by TB-98-C.McDonald at BUF 17. 98-C.McDonald for 17 yards, TOUCHDOWN. The Replay Official challenged the runner was down by contact ruling, and the play was Upheld. The ruling on the field was confirmed.

 

Buffalo Bills at 08:21

10-C.Barth kicks 68 yards from TB 35 to BUF -3. 88-M.Goodwin to BUF 26 for 29 yards (58-K.Glaud, 26-Q.Pointer).

1-10-BUF 26 (8:16) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short middle to 15-C.Hogan (59-M.Foster).

2-10-BUF 26 (8:11) (Shotgun) 28-C.Spiller left tackle to BUF 28 for 2 yards (59-M.Foster).

3-8-BUF 28 (7:42) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel sacked at BUF 23 for -5 yards (74-L.English).

4-13-BUF 23 (7:10) 8-B.Moorman punts 59 yards to TB 18, Center-65-G.Sanborn. 86-S.Patton to TB 18 for no gain (27-D.Williams).

 

Buffalo Bills at 01:05

7-P.Murray kicks 66 yards from TB 35 to BUF -1. 11-T.Graham to BUF 17 for 18 yards (57-D.Munoz).

1-10-BUF 17 (:59) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass incomplete short left to 22-F.Jackson [94-A.Clayborn].

2-10-BUF 17 (:53) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel scrambles right end to BUF 23 for 6 yards. PENALTY on BUF-79-E.Pears, Offensive Holding, 8 yards, enforced at BUF 17 - No Play.

2-18-BUF 9 (:43) (Shotgun) 3-E.Manuel pass short right to 22-F.Jackson to BUF 10 for 1 yard (90-M.Johnson, 98-C.McDonald).

 

 

While he certainly did not play perfectly, much of the blame for the horror show lies elsewhere.

[Reed83HOF]

While he certainly did not play perfectly, much of the blame for the horror show lies elsewhere.

 

What would be nice is to either have posters from the game who specifically watched or the all-22 to look at to see what plays were left on the field and not chosen...

[26CornerBlitz]

What would be nice is to either have posters from the game who specifically watched or the all-22 to look at to see what plays were left on the field and not chosen...

 

Too bad there is no All-22 film made available to the public in the preseason. Then we would really have a better idea.

[Reed83HOF]

Too bad there is no All-22 film made available to the public in the preseason. Then we would really have a better idea.

 

exactly....

 

There was plenty of blame to go around on offense

[John in Jax]

EJ will be the demise of coach Marrone's career. EJ was his first major decision. The one that will get him fired. EJ Manuel has no business in the NFL. I love the kid, frankly. I route, and will continue to route for him. The poor kid looks lost out there.

 

I'm depressed.

 

Hate to say it, but I agree 100%. I will also root for the Bills, 'til the day I assume room temperature.

[billykaykay]

There are plenty of reasons to criticize EJ, but this is a real stretch.

You continually defend EJ even when there is absolutely zero evidence that he will ever be a franchise QB. I hope he emerges from the darkness some day, but I doubt it. We would probably not skip a beat with either of our backups even though there is also no evidence for that. Gonna be a long year.

[Ted William's frozen head]

 

 

This is hyperbole.

The truth is a beyotch. Edited August 24, 2014 by Ted William's frozen head