Tuel demoted to third team

[Flip Johnson]

Easley fell down but that is not the point. If I was trying to lob an egg into a bucket without breaking it, I would throw it like Tuel did.

[Kelly the Dog]

Easley fell down but that is not the point. If I was trying to lob an egg into a bucket without breaking it, I would throw it like Tuel did.

It was an ill-conceived decision right from the start, a horrible lob, slightly overthrown, and right to a defensive player who at every single moment of the play was in better position to make the play on the ball, and easily intercepted. Other than that, it wasn't a bad toss.

[billsfan1959]

Thank God. Now I won't ever have to respond to a dumb post by you again that had nothing to do with what I was talking about.

 

You do understand that your opinion is just that: an opinion . It carries no more weight than anyone else's opinion - no matter how aggressive and "matter of fact" you are in your posts....

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

You do understand that your opinion is just that: an opinion . It carries no more weight than anyone else's opinion - no matter how aggressive and "matter of fact" you are in your posts....

Of course. I was posting about Tuel. The other poster started saying something stupid about oh EJ never throws a bad pass when we were not talking about anything EJ related. Each thread lately becomes a bash EJ thread. It could be about back up slot cbs and someone will invariably chime in that it won't matter who is the back up slot corner if EJ sucks.

 

I was just pointing out the stupidity of talking about EJ. He then said he was going to put me on ignore. I responded with great glee that I would in turn not have to hear another EJ sucks remark when I wasn't discussing EJ.

[billsfan1959]

 

Of course. I was posting about Tuel. The other poster started saying something stupid about oh EJ never throws a bad pass when we were not talking about anything EJ related. Each thread lately becomes a bash EJ thread. It could be about back up slot cbs and someone will invariably chime in that it won't matter who is the back up slot corner if EJ sucks.

 

I was just pointing out the stupidity of talking about EJ. He then said he was going to put me on ignore. I responded with great glee that I would in turn not have to hear another EJ sucks remark when I wasn't discussing EJ.

 

Got it...my mistake...and I won't disagree with you about every thread turning into an "EJ sucks" thread....

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Thanks 59er.

[Kelly the Dog]

Thanks 59er.

Did you see the "Got it... my mistake" part, too?

[starrymessenger]

I know he stumbled but before even going there the issue to me is whether Easley shortened the route.

On the other hand, either way To me JT had a rough nite. Off the top the only half way decent throw he made was maybe the back shoulder to TJ. And it prolly had nothing to do with having to play with the threes. The throws were just no good.

That Webb scrub was the best QB on the field.

[Orton's Arm]

Of course. I was posting about Tuel. The other poster started saying something stupid about oh EJ never throws a bad pass when we were not talking about anything EJ related. Each thread lately becomes a bash EJ thread. It could be about back up slot cbs and someone will invariably chime in that it won't matter who is the back up slot corner if EJ sucks.

 

I was just pointing out the stupidity of talking about EJ. He then said he was going to put me on ignore. I responded with great glee that I would in turn not have to hear another EJ sucks remark when I wasn't discussing EJ.

 

I appreciate the lucidity of your post. And the clarity of thought of your posts in general. You've obviously spent a lot of time watching football, thinking about football, and generally preparing yourself for the season.

 

Unfortunately, all that preparation will have been wasted if EJ stinks.

[JohnC]

 

 

I appreciate the lucidity of your post. And the clarity of thought of your posts in general. You've obviously spent a lot of time watching football, thinking about football, and generally preparing yourself for the season.

 

Unfortunately, all that preparation will have been wasted if EJ stinks.[/b]

 

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your approach toward the qb position. How do you expect to make a determination on a young qb's prospects unless he is given the time to demonstrate his abilities or lack there of? If you expect instant success than you are not being realisiic. Many people, including you and me, thought that based on Trent Edwards initial success that he would become this franchise's long term starter. It took more than one season to conclude that his mental and psychological makeup (risk aversion) would prevent him from being a success.

 

Even with Losman no one really knew in advance whether he was going to be a successful qb. It wasn't until he got enough playing time that a fair determination could be made about his prospects. My central point is simply: Let the prospect play and then make a determination. The "bandwith" factor is a consideratiion but it is not the most important evaluating "tool". How the qb performs and does he get better is the real determing factor. My sense with EJ is that he is not going to make quantum leaps forward but will steadily get better. That's fiine with me.

 

 

 

EJ Manuel was never going to be an instant success because he was simply too raw of a qb coming into the pro ranks. The key thing to keep in mind when judging EJ this year is whether he steadily gets better. If he does that then I consider him a worthy prospect (risk) to invest in. If not then you continue on looking for a better option. There are no guarantees and there is no other way of doing it.

 

You need to participate more. Your observations and contributions positively add to the discussions.

Edited August 12, 2014 by JohnC

[thewildrabbit]

Tuel is pretty awful. As is Thad. Neither inspire confidence to win games if called upon. With EJ being an unknown, I really wonder when (or if) the front office is going to bring in some competent backups. Maybe a vet who gets cut? They need some help.

I gotta believe this is all Hackett / Marrone and only the lord knows what they see in this kid to have kept him on the roster last year over Matt Flynn. No QB coach, no vet QB, and no senior assistant offensive coach last season was very puzzling to me.

 

Now this year they have a QB coach, senior offensive assistant coach along with veteran QB Dennis Dixon. Whaley did draft 3 O linemen, and signed another OG in free agency so he is doing his part to upgrade the offense.

 

 

Anyway, it is only preseason game two and the Bills still have 3 more preseason games to go. So lets hope those backups look better in the upcoming games.

[eball]

To my untrained eye -- which I probably don't give myself enough credit for, having watched this game for 35 years -- Thad is a gamer. He may look awful in practice at times and make some mistakes, but he has the ability to make plays in real games. He's a fine backup. Tuel, on the other hand, is just bad. I really don't know what the coaches think they can turn him into.

[NoSaint]

 

 

You do understand that your opinion is just that: an opinion . It carries no more weight than anyone else's opinion - no matter how aggressive and "matter of fact" you are in your posts....

 

 

that really was one of the stranger "im putting you on ignore" exchanges I have seen. Kelly brought out a reasoned analysis of a play that is (without reviewing the replay again) generally accurate and thought out -- another poster goes on an EJ rant, Kelly makes the point that it added nothing to the discussion of tuels throw, and the ranter goes off on kelly and puts him on ignore.....

 

 

 

To my untrained eye -- which I probably don't give myself enough credit for, having watched this game for 35 years -- Thad is a gamer. He may look awful in practice at times and make some mistakes, but he has the ability to make plays in real games. He's a fine backup. Tuel, on the other hand, is just bad. I really don't know what the coaches think they can turn him into.

 

its a tough league for "gamers" that arent elite. they have to compete for their jobs in practice where they are inconsistent, they dont bring a lot to something like the scout team monday through friday, and they dont get to show that intensity on sunday that might earn them a shot....

 

id venture that among thads better attributes is that he plays intense, and is resilient in game situations.... but that doesnt show well on a tuesday no pads walk through. thats not to say that i want him starting, but as a backup i think hes acceptable.

 

Edited August 12, 2014 by NoSaint

[eball]

its a tough league for "gamers" that arent elite. they have to compete for their jobs in practice where they are inconsistent, they dont bring a lot to something like the scout team monday through friday, and they dont get to show that intensity on sunday that might earn them a shot....

 

id venture that among thads better attributes is that he plays intense, and is resilient in game situations.... but that doesnt show well on a tuesday no pads walk through. thats not to say that i want him starting, but as a backup i think hes acceptable.

 

So...we agree.

[NoSaint]

 

 

So...we agree.

 

i chalk thad up as a guy i like at #2 but would upgrade if something better came along. not dire, or an immediate worry, but i imagine there will be chances to improve the spot. i dont particularly like tuel, but will acknowledge that he could develop into a #2.... i just dont see it yet.

 

to make another long story short, i think we generally agree. i was just giving some wandering thoughts on why thad may not show well in august and has a bit of an uphill battle potentially.

[Orton's Arm]

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your approach toward the qb position. How do you expect to make a determination on a young qb's prospects unless he is given the time to demonstrate his abilities or lack there of? If you expect instant success than you are not being realisiic. Many people, including you and me, thought that based on Trent Edwards initial success that he would become this franchise's long term starter. It took more than one season to conclude that his mental and psychological makeup (risk aversion) would prevent him from being a success.

 

Even with Losman no one really knew in advance whether he was going to be a successful qb. It wasn't until he got enough playing time that a fair determination could be made about his prospects. My central point is simply: Let the prospect play and then make a determination. The "bandwith" factor is a consideratiion but it is not the most important evaluating "tool". How the qb performs and does he get better is the real determing factor. My sense with EJ is that he is not going to make quantum leaps forward but will steadily get better. That's fiine with me.

 

 

 

EJ Manuel was never going to be an instant success because he was simply too raw of a qb coming into the pro ranks. The key thing to keep in mind when judging EJ this year is whether he steadily gets better. If he does that then I consider him a worthy prospect (risk) to invest in. If not then you continue on looking for a better option. There are no guarantees and there is no other way of doing it.

 

You need to participate more. Your observations and contributions positively add to the discussions.

 

> I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your approach toward the qb position.

 

Fair enough. But if you reread Kelly's post, and then my response, you'll see that I was joking around.

 

> Even with Losman no one really knew in advance whether he was going to be a successful qb.

 

This point, and several others you've raised, deserve discussion. But not in this thread, which should remain about Tuel.

 

> You need to participate more. Your observations and contributions positively add to the discussions.

 

Thank you. I enjoy reading your posts as well.

[reddogblitz]

To my untrained eye -- which I probably don't give myself enough credit for, having watched this game for 35 years -- Thad is a gamer. He may look awful in practice at times and make some mistakes, but he has the ability to make plays in real games. He's a fine backup. Tuel, on the other hand, is just bad. I really don't know what the coaches think they can turn him into.

 

My untrained eye, having watched this game for 44 years, tells me the same thing. Thad is a gamer. Give me the gamer over the guy who plays well in shorts all day long.

Edited August 12, 2014 by reddogblitz

[mrpunchy]

This team is hitching its wagon to EJ, whether you like it or not. Get on board or get off. Your call. Jeff Tuel will not sniff the field unless EJ is injured.

They may have done so but he doesn't have to like it nor get off of anything. Add me to the list of 'morons' who think Tuel will be better than EJ. I suspect we will see EJ hurt within a few games and Tuel will end up being the starter. I hope I'm wrong I really do.

[eball]

They may have done so but he doesn't have to like it nor get off of anything. Add me to the list of 'morons' who think Tuel will be better than EJ. I suspect we will see EJ hurt within a few games and Tuel will end up being the starter. I hope I'm wrong I really do.

 

You hit the trifecta -- predictions of EJ failure, EJ injury, and the ever-present "hope I'm wrong" disclaimer. Well done!

[Security]

PS player or college coach. He doesn't have NFL ability.

[Clippers of Nfl]

They may have done so but he doesn't have to like it nor get off of anything. Add me to the list of 'morons' who think Tuel will be better than EJ. I suspect we will see EJ hurt within a few games and Tuel will end up being the starter. I hope I'm wrong I really do.

Really? What do you see in him that makes him that good. (please answer this) Screw this untrained eye. My eyes are trained very well. He's wasting his opportunities.

 

You think he will be better than Ej somehow. But dont you need a chance from a team? The boy is running out of chances...

 

Look at Tebow. PROVEN WINNER IN COLLEGE AND THE NFL. Jobless!!!!! Playoff winner. Jobless.

 

What has Tuel done lately? Really the Tuel lovers dont want to see it, but it's there. Against the 3's he should have smoked the other team. However he was not at his best. I wont even say he was horrible like others. He just was not that good. He should have blinded us with "the light". However he was below average... Be honest.

[snamsnoops]

Of course. I was posting about Tuel. The other poster started saying something stupid about oh EJ never throws a bad pass when we were not talking about anything EJ related. Each thread lately becomes a bash EJ thread. It could be about back up slot cbs and someone will invariably chime in that it won't matter who is the back up slot corner if EJ sucks.

 

I was just pointing out the stupidity of talking about EJ. He then said he was going to put me on ignore. I responded with great glee that I would in turn not have to hear another EJ sucks remark when I wasn't discussing EJ.

Spot on,, kinda tired of the EJ bashing (specially from a select few). Although it has quieted down now that hey have played a 2nd practice game! Edited August 12, 2014 by snamsnoops

[billykaykay]

You hit the trifecta -- predictions of EJ failure, EJ injury, and the ever-present "hope I'm wrong" disclaimer. Well done!

Why the sarcasm when the poster is simply giving his humble opinion ? The posters on this board want to either give EJ more time or "throw the bum out". Why are you so quick to throw Tuel out after just one start? I don't know where the Tuel experiment will go, but I too, just like our coaches, see something in him that says he may make it.

[Kelly the Dog]

Why the sarcasm when the poster is simply giving his humble opinion ? The posters on this board want to either give EJ more time or "throw the bum out". Why are you so quick to throw Tuel out after just one start? I don't know where the Tuel experiment will go, but I too, just like our coaches, see something in him that says he may make it.

I think it was Confucius who once postulated, "When a songbird sings it is beautiful. If it keeps on singing you begin to get a headache. If it never stops one needs to jam a .45 down its fukking throat."

[eball]

Why the sarcasm when the poster is simply giving his humble opinion ? The posters on this board want to either give EJ more time or "throw the bum out". Why are you so quick to throw Tuel out after just one start? I don't know where the Tuel experiment will go, but I too, just like our coaches, see something in him that says he may make it.

 

Well, to be fair, the poster called himself a moron. I admittedly did not argue.

[The Senator]

I'd have to put my money on Tuel over Lewis, who is now on his fourth NFL team after failing to accomplish anything with St. Louis, Cleveland, or Detroit.

 

Tuel has the highest completion % ever (61.4%) at Washington State, is only the 2nd QB to start for the Cougars as a true freshman (the other is former Bills QB Drew Bledsoe), and - of course - was coached by Mike Leach...

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!

 

19 & 0 baby!!!!!

[MikeSpeed]

Only 1 Bills QB has thrown a TD pass this preseason and he has thrown 2. The problem is he has thrown 2 ints also.

Edited August 13, 2014 by MikeSpeed

[NoSaint]

I'd have to put my money on Tuel over Lewis, who is now on his fourth NFL team after failing to accomplish anything with St. Louis, Cleveland, or Detroit.

 

Tuel has the highest completion % ever (61.4%) at Washington State, is only the 2nd QB to start for the Cougars as a true freshman (the other is former Bills QB Drew Bledsoe), and - of course - was coached by Mike Leach...

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!

 

19 & 0 baby!!!!!

 

Although that coach didnt much like him it seemed, no?

[The Senator]

 

 

Although that coach didnt much like him it seemed, no?

 

It was Leach's 1st year at Washington State, and Tuel's final year. I don't think that Leach disliked Tuel or thought he lacked any skills - I think they just didn't have time to build any type of strong bond like Leach had with Graham Harrell at Texas Tech.

 

Leach stated that Tuel never really got into any sort of winning rhythm due to injuries (broken collarbone twice) and coaching changes, but still thought he was a good QB and looked forward to seeing how he'd fare in the NFL.

 

.

Edited August 13, 2014 by The Senator

[Superb Owl]

I found all the measurable throws I could on video (relatively flat and "vertical")

 

Tuel's fastest one was 52 mph

 

EJ's fastest was 50.2 mph

 

Tuels average was 49.03 mph, EJ's average was 44.34

 

Also, I couldn't find any official velocity for Tuel, but EJ's was measured at the combine...

 

YEAR: 2013

Tyler Bray, Tennessee 59

Zac Dysert, Miami (OH) 59

James Vandenberg, Iowa 57

Ryan Nassib, Syracuse 56

Bradley Sorensen, Southern Utah 56

Geno Smith, West Virginia 55

Tyler Wilson, Arkansas 55

EJ Manuel, Florida State 54

Matthew Scott, Arizona 54

Landry Jones, Oklahoma 53

Collin Klein, Kansas State 52

Colby Cameron, Louisiana Tech 51

Marqueis Gray, Minnesota 51

Michael Glennon, North Carolina State 49

Matt Barkley, Southern Cal – Did not throw

Sean Renfree, Duke – Did not throw

 

http://blogs.ourlads...bine-2008-2012/

[Clippers of Nfl]

I found all the measurable throws I could on video (relatively flat and "vertical")

 

Tuel's fastest one was 52 mph

http://youtu.be/LRCfGPoICYE

 

EJ's fastest was 50.2 mph

 

Tuels average was 49.03 mph, EJ's average was 44.34

 

Also, I couldn't find any official velocity for Tuel, but EJ's was measured at the combine...

 

YEAR: 2013

Tyler Bray, Tennessee 59

Zac Dysert, Miami (OH) 59

James Vandenberg, Iowa 57

Ryan Nassib, Syracuse 56

Bradley Sorensen, Southern Utah 56

Geno Smith, West Virginia 55

Tyler Wilson, Arkansas 55

EJ Manuel, Florida State 54

Matthew Scott, Arizona 54

Landry Jones, Oklahoma 53

Collin Klein, Kansas State 52

Colby Cameron, Louisiana Tech 51

Marqueis Gray, Minnesota 51

Michael Glennon, North Carolina State 49

Matt Barkley, Southern Cal Did not throw

Sean Renfree, Duke Did not throw

 

http://blogs.ourlads...bine-2008-2012/

See this is saying something. I like this.

But does he have it on the field? I guess only time will tell.

 

I wonder if Tuel will become that hot girl that no one dates. Time will tell.

[Orton's Arm]

I found all the measurable throws I could on video (relatively flat and "vertical")

 

Tuel's fastest one was 52 mph

http://youtu.be/LRCfGPoICYE

 

EJ's fastest was 50.2 mph

 

Tuels average was 49.03 mph, EJ's average was 44.34

 

Also, I couldn't find any official velocity for Tuel, but EJ's was measured at the combine...

 

YEAR: 2013

Tyler Bray, Tennessee 59

Zac Dysert, Miami (OH) 59

James Vandenberg, Iowa 57

Ryan Nassib, Syracuse 56

Bradley Sorensen, Southern Utah 56

Geno Smith, West Virginia 55

Tyler Wilson, Arkansas 55

EJ Manuel, Florida State 54

Matthew Scott, Arizona 54

Landry Jones, Oklahoma 53

Collin Klein, Kansas State 52

Colby Cameron, Louisiana Tech 51

Marqueis Gray, Minnesota 51

Michael Glennon, North Carolina State 49

Matt Barkley, Southern Cal – Did not throw

Sean Renfree, Duke – Did not throw

 

http://blogs.ourlads...bine-2008-2012/

 

Good post!

 

I don't know whether Tuel will succeed or fail in the NFL. But if he fails, it sounds like his failure story won't involve arm strength. It's good to have reassurance about this aspect of him.

 

On another matter, I appreciate The Senator's comments about Tuel. It's good to hear from those who'd watched him in college.

[NoSaint]

Wait - did you just look at a video and manually calculate speed? Or am I completely missing what you said?

[Superb Owl]

Wait - did you just look at a video and manually calculate speed? Or am I completely missing what you said?

 

I used a video editor to get the time from the ball leaving qb's hand to reaching receiver's hand

[NoSaint]

 

 

I used a video editor to get the time from the ball leaving qb's hand to reaching receiver's hand

 

and then estimated the distance traveled and did all the calculations?

 

i dont mean to sound critical - but really im surprised that the end result was something as close to a reasonable number as it was. it seems like it would be terribly inaccurate in the process blowing up a very rough feet per second to miles per hour.

[Superb Owl]

 

 

and then estimated the distance traveled and did all the calculations?

 

yes that's right, here are the numbers

18 / .734 = 24.52 y/s = 50.15 mph

25 / .984 = 25.41 y/s = 51.98 mph

[NoSaint]

 

 

yes that's right, here are the numbers

18 / .734 = 24.52 y/s = 50.15 mph

25 / .984 = 25.41 y/s = 51.98 mph

 

I understood how you did it - just noting that those rough numbers when blown up to MPH exaggerate the fact that even if you did a really good job they arent going to be exact.

 

a few inches, and/or a few hundredths of a second could cause a noticeable swing on the end result.

 

good effort, but not sure how accurate/meaningful the end result really is.

[Mango]

I understood how you did it - just noting that those rough numbers when blown up to MPH exaggerate the fact that even if you did a really good job they arent going to be exact.

 

a few inches, and/or a few hundredths of a second could cause a noticeable swing on the end result.

 

good effort, but not sure how accurate/meaningful the end result really is.

yes that's right, here are the numbers

18 / .734 = 24.52 y/s = 50.15 mph

25 / .984 = 25.41 y/s = 51.98 mph

I found all the measurable throws I could on video (relatively flat and "vertical")

 

Tuel's fastest one was 52 mph

http://youtu.be/LRCfGPoICYE

 

EJ's fastest was 50.2 mph

 

Tuels average was 49.03 mph, EJ's average was 44.34

 

Also, I couldn't find any official velocity for Tuel, but EJ's was measured at the combine...

 

YEAR: 2013

Tyler Bray, Tennessee 59

Zac Dysert, Miami (OH) 59

James Vandenberg, Iowa 57

Ryan Nassib, Syracuse 56

Bradley Sorensen, Southern Utah 56

Geno Smith, West Virginia 55

Tyler Wilson, Arkansas 55

EJ Manuel, Florida State 54

Matthew Scott, Arizona 54

Landry Jones, Oklahoma 53

Collin Klein, Kansas State 52

Colby Cameron, Louisiana Tech 51

Marqueis Gray, Minnesota 51

Michael Glennon, North Carolina State 49

Matt Barkley, Southern Cal – Did not throw

Sean Renfree, Duke – Did not throw

 

http://blogs.ourlads...bine-2008-2012/

 

Super cool work. It is much appreciated. Can you post the video editor video on youtube, then link here, so we can see how accurate of measurements you got? My largest issue with accuracy is the endzone catch, which really makes it a guestimate. Also since you did the math, with is the results given a margin of error of say +/- a yard. Tuel could be faster or slower.

 

According to that stupid American Muscle show on discovery, an NFL QB needs to be able to hit 50mph in controlled max velocity testing. Just like the combine. Good to see we have two QB's who well surpass that.

[Garranimal]

good effort, but not sure how accurate/meaningful the end result really is.

It likely means that the oft repeated "weak arm" comments are as baseless as the "slow eyes" and "locks on to recievers" comments. Unfortunately one can actually be measured while the other two are figments of ESPN's imagination. Never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

[Kelly the Dog]

It likely means that the oft repeated "weak arm" comments are as baseless as the "slow eyes" and "locks on to recievers" comments. Unfortunately one can actually be measured while the other two are figments of ESPN's imagination. Never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

To me, there are three-four categories you can classify NFL quarterbacks in. 1) rag arms, 2) all the throws arms, 3) strong arms, 4) rocket arms.

 

Most fall into the middle two. Tuel falls into the make all the throws arms. He can complete the long out pattern well enough that NFL cornerbacks cannot get their quick enough to break up the play. He can throw a deep ball 50 yards. He doesn't get in trouble because he has a rag arm, it's just not a strong one. EJ has a strong arm, although I would say it's closer to the all the throws arm than the rocket arm.