What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[ArdmoreRyno]

3 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

There's no reason for anyone to use paper anymore. Yeah going back to when I was 11 would be a challenge and an impossibility, but in 2023 and beyond we can & should make a central database

 

Cost. 

 

My local FFL's (I use two, depending on shipping speeds) and both use paper. They are both small mom-and-pop stores. Paper is unhackable. We have to keep PAPER records for patients in all aspects of the health profession... medical, mental, dental, etc. You can do electronic notes, but intake paperwork, signing agreements, HIPPA forms, it's all paper. 

[Tommy Callahan]

9 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

There's no reason for anyone to use paper anymore. Yeah going back to when I was 11 would be a challenge and an impossibility, but in 2023 and beyond we can & should make a central database

Would take an act of Congress and they are divided 

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Cost. 

 

My local FFL's (I use two, depending on shipping speeds) and both use paper. They are both small mom-and-pop stores. Paper is unhackable. We have to keep PAPER records for patients in all aspects of the health profession... medical, mental, dental, etc. You can do electronic notes, but intake paperwork, signing agreements, HIPPA forms, it's all paper. 

 

That is not true. 

 

And if Mom and Pop cannot afford to maintain their business and abide by rules and regulations - time to close up shop.

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

10 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

There's no reason for anyone to use paper anymore. Yeah going back to when I was 11 would be a challenge and an impossibility, but in 2023 and beyond we can & should make a central database

And so just legal purchases from now on? 

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 minute ago, BillStime said:

 

That is not true. 

 

And if Mom and Pop cannot afford to maintain their business and abide by rules and regulations - time to close up shop.

 

 

 

My agency, we must keep paper records for five years. My father keeps paper records at his dental practice. My PCP, also the doctor attached to my agency to help with psych medications, also keeps paper records. 

 

As for "can't afford", it's not a rule or a regulation to have to go to online background checks. So.... it's easier for them to just do it via paper. They call in, get their answer in under 30 mins. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

3 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

It really is that simple.

 

when the boys in blue are investigating a murder, they shouldn't have to call around and/or visit some podunk basement and sort through unorganized file cabinets. it is 2023, apps track what I ordered at Texas Roadhouse FFS

 

You're in small town gun stores and you've seen their filing system? 

[ArdmoreRyno]

Just now, SUNY_amherst said:

 

37 years experience... it reminds me of a story about my wife and daughter.......blah blah blah

 

Hey look everyone! The guy who needs to tell us where he went to college in his USERNAME is being an ####### again! SHOCK! 

[ChiGoose]

33 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I didn’t see your response it was filtered. But i unfiltered to view. I don’t have a narrative. I see another real topic with entrenched sides yelling at each other and no interest in solving anything. 
 

Hand guns are the overwhelming problem with gun violence. I think assault rifles are dumb, but 15-20 times more murders occur with handguns per FBI database. Murder by knife exceeds rifle. Sure there is a group of unreported but a responsible analyst assumes the same ratios. 

let’s focus on the hand gun problem that is ubiquitous first. 80/20 rule. 
 

ok, you believe criminals are legally buying guns in and adjacent state and then illegally transporting them into your state? Yes?  
 

is this one gun store an outlier and out of how many elsewhere acquired guns? 

 

what laws are specifically relaxed in Indiana? Age? License? Background check? Other? 

Totally agree about handguns. We focus on rifles because AR-15s look scary and are used in mass shootings.  But those are a small fraction of overall gun deaths. 
 

As for straw purchases, they are generally done legally by people who can legally purchase a firearm. They then give or sell those guns to criminals who wouldn’t have been able to buy the guns themselves. Something like 60% of guns used in crimes in Chicago are from out of state, so this is pretty common. 
 

Here are some of the differences in gun laws between Illinois and Indiana:

https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/compare/?states=IL%2CIN

 

[ChiGoose]

 

[daz28]

3 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Every FFL is required, by law, to file and keep their 4473 on site. If you go in to buy a firearm, you MUST fill that form out, which gets called into the FBI for your NICS background. Included in that paperwork is the make, model and serial number of the weapon you bought... if that's a firearm or a suppressor. They then file that paperwork. LEO can request to get access to those records via a judge. So there is a paper trail... somewhat.

 

And if you're for educating the public on firearms, let's really educate them. You see such high numbers against AR-15's because of a false narrative the media and left pushes. They want to "ban assault weapons" but they really don't know what that is, or how an AR actually functions. They know what the media and politicians want you to believe. I'm sick of hearing completely inaccurate information coming out of those groups who want to ban certain firearms, feeding into the public's fears of crime. 

 

No, Geraldo Rivera (Fox New), the AR-15 isn't full auto. No Gary Johnson, removing the "firing pin" doesn't make all guns full auto. No Kevin de León, milled guns (or any gun for that matter) doesn't have the  "ability with a 30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. 30 magazine clip within half a second." No Assemblywoman Patricia Eddington, bullets don't have heat seeking abilities. ETC - ETC - ETC. The public hears that BS and believes it. 

 

While you're correct that there's misinformation on the left, there's also misinformation on the right.  The cartridges were designed for killing humans at distances most likely to be encountered.  They were also designed to be able to fit more into the magazine, and allow you to carry more of it.  The only real distinction between them and military assault rifles is selective fire, but even then that is for suppression. A soldier trying to hit clean targets is either going to fire single shot, or 3 shot burst.  A person who is good at handling the weapon can easily fire all 30 rounds in 10 seconds with little loss of accuracy, because unlike a hunting rifle, it's designed to remain accurate with rapid fire.  In short, trying to say it's closer to a hunting rifle than it is a military weapon is a larger degree of misinformation.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Totally agree about handguns. We focus on rifles because AR-15s look scary and are used in mass shootings.  But those are a small fraction of overall gun deaths. 
 

As for straw purchases, they are generally done legally by people who can legally purchase a firearm. They then give or sell those guns to criminals who wouldn’t have been able to buy the guns themselves. Something like 60% of guns used in crimes in Chicago are from out of state, so this is pretty common. 
 

Here are some of the differences in gun laws between Illinois and Indiana:

https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/compare/?states=IL%2CIN

 

Indiana gun laws are obviously extremely different than Illinois.
 

So much so I wouldn’t blame your state for establishing inspection checkpoints based on the findings that Indiana is a source of smuggling into your state. 

 

in contrasting those two lists there are several topics that rise to the front as common sense laws that could be pursued at the federal level for purchase regulations that I think would get 70% buy in. 
 

another great up thread where is the ATF cracking down on the dealing? Particularly interstate??

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Hey look everyone! The guy who needs to tell us where he went to college in his USERNAME is being an ####### again! SHOCK! 

It’s soo cliche western New York Amherst elites. 

 

Used to see it every time I’d go back to visit.  
 

this subset of folks assume the entire world is exactly like the swath of civilization between Niagara Falls, and the southtowns and Lake Erie, and transit road. 
 

the world revolves around them 😂 

 

of course mom and pop shops out there still use paper. My old school German Bimmer mechanic just writes everything in a composition notebook. He has a 486 computer on the desk but I have never seen it on.  
 

The world is a big place… 

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Indiana gun laws are obviously extremely different than Illinois.
 

So much so I wouldn’t blame your state for establishing inspection checkpoints based on the findings that Indiana is a source of smuggling into your state. 

 

in contrasting those two lists there are several topics that rise to the front as common sense laws that could be pursued at the federal level for purchase regulations that I think would get 70% buy in. 
 

another great up thread where is the ATF cracking down on the dealing? Particularly interstate??

Interstate checkpoints would be really difficult. Chicago borders Indiana so you’re talking about an insane amount of traffic every day. A lot of people who work in Chicago actually live in Indiana. I’m not sure how you can do checkpoints in a way that catches the smugglers without creating a massive hassle for the regular commuter.

 

I think establishing better markers that allow for tracing straw purchasers would be a good start. If Indiana is able to (or forced to) investigate the straw purchasers and there was a way to credible establish the purchase (that can be used in a court of law), that could lead to the end buyers of the guns. Or at least start eliminating the straw purchasers from the equation, making it harder for the criminals to get their hands on the guns. 

[BillStime]

5 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

My agency, we must keep paper records for five years. My father keeps paper records at his dental practice. My PCP, also the doctor attached to my agency to help with psych medications, also keeps paper records. 

 

As for "can't afford", it's not a rule or a regulation to have to go to online background checks. So.... it's easier for them to just do it via paper. They call in, get their answer in under 30 mins. 

You’re from Oklahoma, right?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Interstate checkpoints would be really difficult. Chicago borders Indiana so you’re talking about an insane amount of traffic every day. A lot of people who work in Chicago actually live in Indiana. I’m not sure how you can do checkpoints in a way that catches the smugglers without creating a massive hassle for the regular commuter.

 

I think establishing better markers that allow for tracing straw purchasers would be a good start. If Indiana is able to (or forced to) investigate the straw purchasers and there was a way to credible establish the purchase (that can be used in a court of law), that could lead to the end buyers of the guns. Or at least start eliminating the straw purchasers from the equation, making it harder for the criminals to get their hands on the guns. 

Checkpoints would be a nuisance, and might not even be constitutional. But if something like pop up dui checkpoints is possible it might help. 
 

im assuming there is a known obstacle that encumbers straw purchase prosecution, but this is fine example of an area where the fed not only could but should be stepping in. It’s actually their job. 
 

Feels like some reasonable enforceable standards in purchase screening requirements could be compromised upon and codified at the federal level if it weren’t so much more convenient to have a hot button polarization topic in play all the time for the pols. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

13 hours ago, daz28 said:

While you're correct that there's misinformation on the left, there's also misinformation on the right.  The cartridges were designed for killing humans at distances most likely to be encountered.  They were also designed to be able to fit more into the magazine, and allow you to carry more of it.  The only real distinction between them and military assault rifles is selective fire, but even then that is for suppression. A soldier trying to hit clean targets is either going to fire single shot, or 3 shot burst.  A person who is good at handling the weapon can easily fire all 30 rounds in 10 seconds with little loss of accuracy, because unlike a hunting rifle, it's designed to remain accurate with rapid fire.  In short, trying to say it's closer to a hunting rifle than it is a military weapon is a larger degree of misinformation.

 

Who has ever said that? But military weapons... they eventually were all adopted by vets/public either during war-times or after. 

• When the Revolutionary War happened, we used black powder (muskets, long rifles, etc). People used those same weapons to hunt. 
• Civil War, the cartridge round was created 2 decades before the war started, the Henry Repeating Rifle was widely used as was the Spencer repeating rifle. Could fire several shots in under a minute with a capacity of 15+ rounds at a time. Pistols used cartridge rounds with primers, like the rifles. People used those SAME weapons to hunt and for personal protection. 
• WWII the M1 Garand, one of the greatest military weapons ever created, was WIDELY used in that war. Post-war, it was EXTREMELY popular with hunters. 

Cartridges were all adopted for hunting... 30.06, .308, 5.56, etc. I use an AR platform to hunt. I do have a Remington 700 (M24 clone) but the 300 Blackout and AR-10 I have are MUCH better than the 700 for my taste. I want to throw on a thermal to hunt hogs at night? Easy to do on my 300 AAC. Not so easy to throw on my M24 that has no picatinny rail.

 

[Tommy Callahan]

14 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

well Chris Farley was taken 

Rent free 

[ArdmoreRyno]

28 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

he is? WTF is anyone here actually from where the Buffalo Bills play!?!

 

Rockville, MD lecturing on Amherst, NY LOL...

 

There are Bills fans all over the world. Go to Wyoming and see the number of people wearing 17 jerseys. 

 

I became a Bills fan in 1988 when Thurman was drafted from my alma mater. Followed his progress and fell in love with the team. 

 

BTW: Under usernames, many of us have where we are from listed. 

[Tommy Callahan]

25 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

I just noticed that, good grief everyone I talk to likes to tell us what we need in Buffalo from places with problems of their own!

The topic of the thread is guns, and that's a problem in every city.

 

When was it implied this thread was about buffalo gun crime and buffalo gun crime only?

 

 

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

8 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

It wasn't, I was blending topics from other places. It explains a lot though with the gun debate and all the dumb southerners chiming in

you talking about billsy and the bird in Virginia?

 

 

[B-Man]

Good news.

 

Suspect in Texas mass shooting captured in manhunt

 

https://hotair.com/karen-townsend/2023/05/03/developing-suspect-in-texas-mass-shooting-captured-in-manhunt-n548028

[ArdmoreRyno]

2 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

I just noticed that, good grief everyone I talk to likes to tell us what we need in Buffalo from places with problems of their own!

 

Who's telling you what you need in Buffalo? I've never said anything about Buffalo's politics or problems. I only care about two things in Buffalo: the football team and wings.

2 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

It wasn't, I was blending topics from other places. It explains a lot though with the gun debate and all the dumb southerners chiming in

 

And I'm not from the South... and far from being dumb... even though I feel I'm not nearly as smart as I was 20 years ago. Jeopardy isn't as easy anymore. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

Just now, SUNY_amherst said:

Yes you are. Oklahoma is “the South” 

 

Okay dude. Whatever you say. You're the expert in geography and what is considered the South, Midwest, West, etc. Make sure you come to Oklahoma to tell us all how things are! 

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 minute ago, SUNY_amherst said:

No way, I’ll never go there if I don’t have to

 

BREAKS MY HEART!!!!!!!!! LOL 

 

We have enough problems with Californians moving to Texas and Oklahoma. So please, stay out and keep your liberalism in NY State. Thanks! 

(BTW: You're not going to find many Okies that say we're in the South. We are in our own 'region'. We aren't South... we really aren't Midwest either. We are a 'Great Plains' state.")

[ArdmoreRyno]

19 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

I. Don’t. Care.

Cared enough to try to tell an Okie what region we are in, even though you're flat out WRONG about it 🙄🤣

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

31 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

Yes you are. Oklahoma is “the South” 

 

29 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Okay dude. Whatever you say. You're the expert in geography and what is considered the South, Midwest, West, etc. Make sure you come to Oklahoma to tell us all how things are! 

see what I mean if it south of Ellicottville, it’s southern us. 
 

 bubble of faux self importance 

[ArdmoreRyno]

15 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

see what I mean if it south of Ellicottville, it’s southern us. 
 

 bubble of faux self importance 

 

lol

 

There are Oklahomans who will say we are South... but we weren't even a state during the Civil War (even though one of the final battles took place in Oklahoma). Then you go to Tulsa and those people might tell you they're in the Midwest. 

 

In reality, we aren't either. Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska... we're in the heart of the country. I'd call us a "Plains State" over anything else. 

[BillStime]

Just another day in NRAmerica...

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

6 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Just another day in NRAmerica...

 

 

Person of color using a handgun. 
 

Doesn’t fit the narrative… yet it’s what most mass shooters use and who does the shooting. 

[Tommy Callahan]

7 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Just another day in NRAmerica...

 

 

Just another day in a dem stronghold.  

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

First pictures on Twitter. 

 

https://twitter.com/ChuckCallesto/status/1653812168582725632?t=TSWXiOrgStyFCUC3OM-kvg&s=19

Quote

 

 

[Demongyz]

Still a semi-automatic pistol, this makes it a weapon of war.

[ArdmoreRyno]

Doesn’t happen in Europe! 
 

https://trib.al/GXDsxX7

[BillStime]

20 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Just another day in a dem stronghold.  

 

 

 

I wish Democrat Mayors had control of such laws in states where the GQP controls the offices of governor, secretary of state, attorney general, and both chambers of the state legislature.

 

Great NRA talking points - hope you win.

 

 

26 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

Person of color using a handgun. 
 

Doesn’t fit the narrative… yet it’s what most mass shooters use and who does the shooting. 

 

GUNS - it's the only narrative to focus on...

[ArdmoreRyno]

6 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

I wish Democrat Mayors had control of such laws in states where the GQP controls the offices of governor, secretary of state, attorney general, and both chambers of the state legislature.

 

Great NRA talking points - hope you win.

 

 

 

GUNS - it's the only narrative to focus on...

 

Yes, it's definitely not the person carrying out the evil. We all know you want to ban all guns in America. 

[LeviF]

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

1 minute ago, LeviF said:

 

 

WTH. Alaska has a huge problem with homicides.

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

2 minutes ago, LeviF said:

 

 

 

Strange! But it's the NRA and GOP! 

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

We all know you want to ban all guns in America. 

 

Too many bad apples.

 

[LeviF]

Just now, Chris farley said:

WTH. Alaska has a huge problem with homicides.

 

 

 

AK, WY, RI, other small pop states' rates can be thrown off pretty quickly after a couple murders, meaning lots of variance year over year in the per 100k numbers.

 

AK also has a relatively large NA population which also trends high in homicides.