Doc Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 ok, i'll buy the FA angle, assuming the entire cash to cap, build through the draft only ( cuz that's how pittsburgh does it), and the free agent -buffalo price premium issues are all laid to rest. unfortunately, i don't believe they are. what has changed since byrd wasn't offered market value to stay? Nothing. I just don't think they believe he's worth $9M/year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) First, let's make the big assumption he turns into a player like Green or Jones. Where does that get us? What have the JJ trade done for ATL? Same for Green (although Cincy gets points for not mortgaging their future to get him ). Would you even trade pick #8 and next year's 1st for Jones or Green, especially when you have an unknown commodity at QB? The more I think about it, it almost resembles a desperation move to try impress the next owner. almost .actually i agree that this satisfies the fan base . But i just laughed out loud. New catch phrase for me. Darin from Alaska killed it. Dude is a Witch. Yep. Coolest phrase ever D from A Edited May 16, 2014 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I will repost this here, only because it seriously cracked me up. Read closely. It's the pre-draft profile from walterfootball... Sammy Watkins Scouting Report By Charlie Campbell Strengths: Explosive play-maker Threat to score on any touch Game-breaking speed Forces teams to keep a safety deep Impacts game plans Intimidates defensive backs Quick release off of the line Rare first-step quickness Stretches the defense Phenomenal body control Good size Very strong; built extremely well Breaks tackles; gets yards after contact Quick feet Leaping ability Great route-runner; sudden out of breaks Quality hands Adept at finding soft spots in zone Regularly defeats double teams Passionate for the game Can run the ball out of the backfield Rare athleticism Physical blocker Durable, experienced 3-year starter Experienced, dominated good competition Weaknesses: Had some off-the-field issues in 2012 Had a bit of slump in 2012 That's good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 This board never ceases to amaze me. The amount of kool-aid drinking following 3 straight 6-10 seasons and a bet-the-farm / mortgage-the-future trade for a wide receiver is nothing short of amazing What happened to your old account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) The price paid is only a concern if the performance doesn't warrant it. He puts up 1,000 yards and 10 TDs thus season and those same people will be calling it brilliant If he does that as a rookie maybe, but if that's what he's doing 3 years from now I'll see it as 2 1st rounders wasted on a lateral move. Edited May 16, 2014 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I will repost this here, only because it seriously cracked me up. Read closely. It's the pre-draft profile from walterfootball... That's good stuff. And here is their post-draft profile: Strengths: Can only catch screen passes Weaknesses: The Bills traded away too much to get him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 EJ Manuel's play will be a huge factor in determining if Sammy Watkins is a success. Somewhat. I think people are able to evaluate Andy Dalton and AJ Green both in isolation and together, no? Dalton is a "jury is out" / "maybe good enough for playoffs but can't win you the big one" guy. Green is a bona fide generational talent. Everybody knows this. It's my hope (and that of the FO) that Watkins helps EJ become more than what Dalton is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 What Watkins possesses is amazing speed. So did Darrius Heyward-Bey, but that never made him a success in the NFL. Watkins is a much better overall prospect, but he, too, will not be able to rely just on speed. This isn't even remotely true. If the thesis of this article is that Watkins' only relies on his speed as a WR, then it's nonsensical tripe. He likely won't singlehandedly turn around the franchise's fortunes and he may even be a disappointment relative to his cost--- but he's far from a one-dimensional speedster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Somewhat. I think people are able to evaluate Andy Dalton and AJ Green both in isolation and together, no? Dalton is a "jury is out" / "maybe good enough for playoffs but can't win you the big one" guy. Green is a bona fide generational talent. Everybody knows this. It's my hope (and that of the FO) that Watkins helps EJ become more than what Dalton is. I think EJ has more tangibles than Dalton, and without seeing Watkins in live NFL action, it's unfair to make any type of comparison to AJ... That said, if both EJ and Sammy achieve 80% of their hype in real production, we have taken leaps and bounds in the right direction... PS- I only have 2 beers left... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 First, you haven't rebutted my point but have chosen to lay in the tall grass after I present my argument. Decisions made before Whaley and Marrone were hired to their current jobs significantly influenced the moves of 2013 and 2014. The team building strategy in 2010-2012 made the last two off-seasons what they were. Every team that begins to rebuild attempts to get a QB as quickly as possible given the short window to overhaul a roster. The fastest way to rebuilding is to get a very good to outstanding QB. When Buddy NIx eschewed the position in 2011 and 2012 when some good ones were on the board, it set up 2013 and 2014. No one knew the 2013 QB class would be weak, but you have to strike while the iron was hot and Nix chose other positions. In fact, IIRC, Nix talked about building the team and then getting the QB. Problem is, no one does that anymore because teams don't have enough time to rebuild for 3-4 years as Nix said it would take to finish the job. And no, I don't consider Boldin or Crabtree #1 receivers. Very good, but not on par with Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, AJ Green, and perhaps Andre Johnson. In the post that I responded to, you made a case that teams with true #1 WRs dont make the playoffs. You pointed to several teams that have dynamic WRs and yet failed to win in the playoffs. That is picking one position on the entire team and correlating it to the team's lack of success. I can make a similar point with pretty much every position other than QB. That does not mean every team without a premier QB should only draft QBs in the first round. And I asked you a question regarding who or which position would you have picked in this year's draft ? You are slamming the Bills for choosing a WR. Would you have rather the Bills choose a QB ? When the second QB to be chosen was all the way down at # 22 ? Did you want them to select a QB ? You claim to have laid out an argument and I am saying it is specious at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pills -N- Bills Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 The bills have been playing it safe for 14 years. Bout time we showed some balls. Not just with the Watkins pick, but with all the trades, FA signings and the bringing in of guys with some off the field issues. You have to take risks to reap the rewards. Sounds like a bunch of old men sitting around bitching ab the weather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDBUFFCUSEFAN Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) First, you haven't rebutted my point but have chosen to lay in the tall grass after I present my argument. Decisions made before Whaley and Marrone were hired to their current jobs significantly influenced the moves of 2013 and 2014. The team building strategy in 2010-2012 made the last two off-seasons what they were. Every team that begins to rebuild attempts to get a QB as quickly as possible given the short window to overhaul a roster. The fastest way to rebuilding is to get a very good to outstanding QB. When Buddy NIx eschewed the position in 2011 and 2012 when some good ones were on the board, it set up 2013 and 2014. No one knew the 2013 QB class would be weak, but you have to strike while the iron was hot and Nix chose other positions. In fact, IIRC, Nix talked about building the team and then getting the QB. Problem is, no one does that anymore because teams don't have enough time to rebuild for 3-4 years as Nix said it would take to finish the job. And no, I don't consider Boldin or Crabtree #1 receivers. Very good, but not on par with Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, AJ Green, and perhaps Andre Johnson. So there are 3 #1 WRs and maybe 1 more, great analysis. Can I subscribe to your newsletter please? Also, all four of your top guys were drafted in the top 6 so it looks like mega elite WRs need to be drafted high. Edited May 16, 2014 by NDBUFFCUSEFAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Lmao!!! Seriously? Supposed to be the best WR prospect in 5 years and because the Bills drafted him, now there is "doubt" as to how good he will be... GTFO...let me guess Mike "nose up the Patriots @ss" Rodak wrote this? http://insider.espn....falo-bills-paid typical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Just remember guys we because of 5 trades ddi get back and extra 5th this year, 4th next year, but then gave that up for the RB, Etc. the bottom line is we ended up with 7 picks, an extra 5th, Mike Williams, a RB, and yes we ended up giving up our 1st. We really infused a lot of talent on the team, and Whaley made a choice. Give away the 1st next year for a shot at what so many pundits said over 100 times before the draft for the most talented offensive player in the draft. It's ridiculous how many times I read and heard how Watkins was as good as Julio Jones, or AJ Green when they came out in their drafts. Now he's overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I get such a kick out of BILLS' fans complaining about how you can't run those patterns in the NFL when the Patriots have been murdering us with them for over a decade. Perry Fewell used to line the CBs up 10 yards off the line and Brady would complete dozens of passes for first down after first down. Watkins is going to be another Percy Harvin. Hopefully he can stay healthy because dude is a witch. And giving up a first rounder is only an issue if you refuse to use the money to get an upper tier FA that season. Hopefully DW is paying attention. I know he is only a little over 6FT but he plays bigger then Harvin. Plays bigger then his size. Not scared of contact & he will run around you but he will run thru the defense also. I am not saying he is Calvin or Fitz but don't let his size deceive you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Fair enough. I hope he turns into a Hall of Fame player and that the Bills never look back. But this was a pretty reckless trade to make for a non-QB and if I'm a Browns fan, I feel very good about the chances of next year's pick being a good one. You obviously cant evaluate this trade up until it plays out. This year the 9th overall pick for us probably would have been a right tackle prospect. Elite receivers have far more impact than a RT will. Next year when Cleveland is on the clock with our first round pick, whaley will look at our draft board and know who we gave up for Sammy. Until then this debate is meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 You obviously cant evaluate this trade up until it plays out. This year the 9th overall pick for us probably would have been a right tackle prospect. Elite receivers have far more impact than a RT will. Next year when Cleveland is on the clock with our first round pick, whaley will look at our draft board and know who we gave up for Sammy. Until then this debate is meaningless. No it's not. Future values are always based on speculation. And, obviously, Whaley, et al, took such speculation into consideration when negotiating the trade. So, why can't we debate that speculation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) You obviously cant evaluate this trade up until it plays out. This year the 9th overall pick for us probably would have been a right tackle prospect. Elite receivers have far more impact than a RT will. Next year when Cleveland is on the clock with our first round pick, whaley will look at our draft board and know who we gave up for Sammy. Until then this debate is meaningless. Completely disagree. By your logic: If the Bills could trade Kiko Alonso for a 2015 5th round pick, nobody can evaluate that as a bad trade until we get to Day 3 of the 2015 draft and see who's available on the board in the 5th round. Decisions are made based on risk tolerance and currently available information. Whaley surrendering a 2015 1st rounder when his QB has yet to prove himself is a dangerous move and assumes that (a) EJ is a franchise QB and (b) The Bills, coming off a 6-10 season are on the cusp of the playoffs and © Watkins will help them get there in 2014 even though many great WR prospects take time to adjust to the NFL game Bad risk but it apparently has gotten BILLS fans excited because the move was "bold" Edited May 16, 2014 by Dawgg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 No it's not. Future values are always based on speculation. And, obviously, Whaley, et al, took such speculation into consideration when negotiating the trade. So, why can't we debate that speculation? I have no idea what your stance is regarding this, so I am not saying this to you, just in general. I think posters here that are in favor of the trade take umbrage with anyone saying something to the effect of "This was stupid. They gave up way too much." But most have little problem with anyone saying, "I think they may have given up too much. I would never do that but let's see how it turns out." Of course every pick you have to wait and see how they play. Everyone knows that. And of course everything on here is someone's opinion, even most "facts." But posters, myself included, seem to be sensitive to this trade because it is such a big thing, and big move, and substantial risk in a lot of people's eyes. So when someone, anyone, comes across as if they know what is going to be the outcome, when clearly they don't, fires get stoked and people in favor of the trade get uppity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 almost . actually i agree that this satisfies the fan base . But i just laughed out loud. New catch phrase for me. Darin from Alaska killed it. Dude is a Witch. Yep. Coolest phrase ever D from A Maybe it satisfies the fan base because the fan base is extremely knowledgable as football fans......and understand that when you get a once over so many years talent like Sammy Watkins on your team...along with all the other moves....you are essentially giving yourself more chances for positive clutch plays to happen Maybe that run goes for a touchdown instead of 2 years Maybe that pass is caught to convert that 3rd down instead of dropped Maybe that pass is hung onto instead of fumbled away sealing our fate Maybe stopping that teams running play for no gain on a critical third down helps win the game The fans of buffalo are not stupid...and that is why the playoff drought hurts so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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