nucci Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Oh, I'm not saying he could have or even should have done more. I'm just saying this is all being reported as if it's something new. While new details may have emerged, I thought anyone who paid attention to the new lease (like most of us here) knew that it was tremendously difficult/expensive or nearly impossible for this team to go anywhere before 2020. Ok, fair enough. Wasn't attacking you..... Blackouts = not supporting enough pretty simple Wrong...every game can sellout and still be blacked out according to the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 @RussBrandon For more information regarding the New Stadium Working Group ... http://ow.ly/v3ruA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) If you look back a couple pages Bandit (hope you don't mind) posted a link detailing exactly what a the owner must look at and what the league will look, before a team is allowed to move: Owner must take into consideration prior to applying: "the League’s television interests, the League’s interest in strong and geographically distributed franchises, the League’s interest in securing attractive stadium facilities in which to play its games, and the League’s interest in having financially viable franchises" the NFL will look at (this is number 2 on the list): "The extent to which fan loyalty to and support for the club has been demonstrated during the team's tenure in the current community" So, it's pretty much there in black and white. The league will certainly look at fan loyalty, whether that means selling out games or not could be debated. http://www.leg.state.mn.us/webcontent/lrl/issues/FootballStadium/NFLFranchiseRelocationRules.pdf there is certainly more, but at some level "fan support" will have an emotional component and you and i both know that pictures of empty seats vs full seats does a lot to sway people emotionally. and its not just those voting but the greater nfl community - writers, fans, etc... while there is no way for the fans to guarantee that the team stays - sadly none at all - filling up that stadium is the best way to make it harder for them to leave (though it obviously may not be headed that direction even). Edited March 27, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Los Angeles Jaguars, Buffalo Bills might be in a small market but they fill the stadium. Jacksonville plays in a small market also and can't draw fans. I went to the game against the Bills and paid $25.00 for the ticket and $10 for parking. They play one game a year in London. There stadium makes the Ralph look like it's state of the art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 To me it is based on the baseline measures of sellouts and avoiding blackouts. The Bills consistently are in a battle to not be blacked out from November on. There are only a few blackouts per year total in the NFL. Yes the fan base is passionate but the support is not the equivalent of most other markets. For example: The Bills have a more knowledgeable and passionate fan base than the Patriots but the Patriots get better support from their fans than the Bills. This is such a red-herring argument (not yours, but the idea that Bills fans do not support their team). The stadium is MUCH TOO BIG. Of course it won't sell-out. I live in Pittsburgh, even Steelers fans start "giving away" their tickets when the weather is garbage. And, the Steelers stadium is SMALLER, than Ralph Wilson Stadium. I bet the average attendance at Bills games is higher than most NFL stadiums. The Bills are also 11th in the NFL in viewership, despite a 14 year playoff absence. Eventually, the long term solution appears to be building a dome or retractable roof stadium that seats 55-60K people (equivalent to other NFL Stadiums). This solves at least two problems: (1) the attendance/blackout issue. That would sell out. And ticket prices could be increased, helping new ownership; (2) the attendance issue in general. When the weather forecast is -10, few people want to go to a Bills game who live in Buffalo, much less travel to Buffalo. A dome solves that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 So I'm pretty sure a 14 year playoff drought and still selling out most of the year sums up fan loyalty. Most of the year? You mean when Salvatore does his annual ticket grab so we can watch a game in November? When we're still in the hunt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 there is certainly more, but at some level "fan support" will have an emotional component and you and i both know that pictures of empty seats vs full seats does a lot to sway people emotionally. and its not just those voting but the greater nfl community - writers, fans, etc... while there is no way for the fans to guarantee that the team stays - sadly none at all - filling up that stadium is the best way to make it harder for them to leave (though it obviously may not be headed that direction even). The Bills new construction should have "removed" some of the seating to reduce the capacity, and make a heated indoor area fans could go to during halftime, etc. The stadium is simply too big to fill on a consistent basis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_National_Football_League_stadiums It's bigger than the Bears, Patriots, Eagles, and Steelers. All of which are located in bigger cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oman128 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) A new owner with no ties to the Buffalo community cares about one thing making money. He doesn't care about the fans of New York he cares about getting the best deal he can and that deal probably isn't in Buffalo. Los Angeles has so much more money than Buffalo when we all know it. But everybody wants a savior like Terry Pegula or Tom Golisano to step in and save the franchise like a virgin on prom night. Just because Roger Goodell is from Jamestown doesn't mean he's going to save the Bills for western New York. if the bills move to Toronto lots of the fans will still go to the game bit they will sti'll will b**** about' on fan sites like this. If the team is sold and moved just Los Angeles it'll be rebranded as something else they won't be the Bills anymore they'll be in the LA stars or something else. The NFL hasn't had a new team in a new city in a long time and that alone create some drama excitement new uniforms new colors new rivalry new media market. Sad to say but I think the Bills Days In Buffalo are numbered. Edited March 27, 2014 by oman128 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 At least for me, reading this article did shed some light on some things. For instance, I thought the $400M was what a new owner would have to pay if they wanted to move the team before the 7 years. But the way that article reads, the " specific performance" clause actually legally prevents the team from moved, and the $400m was just an insurance if for some reason that clause did not hold up in court. All the experts I have heard this morning say that clause would never be overturned in court. Many have speculated a new owner could just look at the $400M as part of the purchase price and realize that investment right back if they moved to say LA. In other words, value of the franchise instantly goes up by more than $400m if they moved the team. Now that option I'd off the table. So yes, Ralph gave Buffalo 7 years to figure out what's next...I think that was mighty gracious of him Incredibly gracious. Give a man a fish or teach a man to fish? Most everything said or heard about Ralph is that he valued the person, people but he was seldom one to give out fish. Business is business, yet he has put preconditions on the next owner(s) in hopes we all learn to fish and keep the franchise here without permanently tying down ownership. That's more than anyone should have expected and I for one am grateful for his thoughtfulness. I think the NFL wants the team to stay here for the reasons discussed in this thread and now a large part of that is up to us the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 @RussBrandon For more information regarding the New Stadium Working Group ... http://ow.ly/v3ruA This sounds like a positive thing. It means they're not gonna wait around 3-5 years before deciding on what needs to be done with infrastructure to keep the team viable here. Obviously Brandon has planned for this moment well in advance to announce this today. In the meantime, let's hope the deep-pocketed friends of the Bills are working on their financing groups or finalizing their already existing plans to make a proposal to buy the team....(whenever the "for sale" sign is officially hung). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Thank God Ralph was from Buffalo, and didn't live elsewhere, or he would have moved the team somewhere else in order to make more money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 @RussBrandon For more information regarding the New Stadium Working Group ... http://ow.ly/v3ruA Interesting the mayor of Niagara Falls is on the NYS group. But Erie County has it's own division. It looks like any new stadium will likely be built in Erie County but there is that giant land block owned by Howard Millstien in the Falls just sitting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) @RussBrandon For more information regarding the New Stadium Working Group ... http://ow.ly/v3ruA Very revealing in my opinion that the Bills reps include Schumer. If that doesn't demonstrate Russ' interest in keeping the team in WNY (for whatever his reasons are), I don't know what does. I suppose it could be labelled a cynical move orchestrated by the NFL to help keep the NFL's tax exempt status intact, but regardless of the motives, I think that move works to WNY's extreme benefit. Edited March 27, 2014 by BillnutinHouston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I agree. With this latest lease Ralph bought the Bills more time to figure out how to keep the team beyond 2020. This penalty would fall on the Bills, so safe to say that this was a lease crafted by the County to protect the County. Thank God Ralph was from Buffalo, and didn't live elsewhere, or he would have moved the team somewhere else in order to make more money! Where woul d he have moved it to? And, exactly, when? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 If you look back a couple pages Bandit (hope you don't mind) posted a link detailing exactly what a the owner must look at and what the league will look, before a team is allowed to move: Owner must take into consideration prior to applying: "the League’s television interests, the League’s interest in strong and geographically distributed franchises, the League’s interest in securing attractive stadium facilities in which to play its games, and the League’s interest in having financially viable franchises" the NFL will look at (this is number 2 on the list): "The extent to which fan loyalty to and support for the club has been demonstrated during the team's tenure in the current community" So, it's pretty much there in black and white. The league will certainly look at fan loyalty, whether that means selling out games or not could be debated. http://www.leg.state...cationRules.pdf OK, so whether we like it or not, think it's fair or not, it is now crystal clear that fan support is one of the stated criteria for considering franchise location. Now the question is, how will Bills fans respond to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I've seen all these posts going back and forth about "sellouts" and quite frankly they're ridiculous. Last year, Buffalo averaged 66,267. That was more than the Colts, Chargers, and Bengals who all made the playoffs. That puts them a little below average ranking wise at #19, but certainly not the butt joke of the NFL or suggesting somehow that the team doesn't have fan loyalty. A huge portion of NFL revenue is from TV advertising. That simple. Gate revenue for the most part is an afterthought and only comes into play when you're talking about individual team profitability. Which by the way, every team in the NFL last year made a profit EXCEPT the Lions. Also a non-issue. Economically, the team is going nowhere until 2020 at the soonest. For those that want to conjure up fantastic stories of how someone is going to magically change or eliminate lease provisions or be able to allow a family to completely ignore estate and tax laws, find a brain cell. 2020 on and all bets are off, pending what happens with new ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 OK, so whether we like it or not, think it's fair or not, it is now crystal clear that fan support is one of the stated criteria for considering franchise location. Now the question is, how will Bills fans respond to this? Someone else has already pointed out that no team has demonstrated more support of an NFL team through a longer playoff drought than the Bills fans--regardless of whether they have sold out every game. I would bet most owners would be surprised the Bills pull in 66,000 a home game (up 3500 from 2011) The Bills bring more fans to the stadium than the Bears, yet Soldier field is sold out all the time. Same for Indy, Detroit, Minny, Cincy, Arizona---all stadiums with fewer seats, all at 96% capacity or better. The Bills were about 91% full for the season last year--despite yet another 6-10 season. That's an amazing level of fan support. Your argument is poor. Also, you want more sell-outs, take away a few thousand seats. Heck, this is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 The last 2 posters are correct. People tend to look at "sellout" and "blackout" and not at actually attendance and tickets sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 The last 2 posters are correct. People tend to look at "sellout" and "blackout" and not at actually attendance and tickets sold. Selling one less ticket than needed doesn't put the game on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Selling one less ticket than needed doesn't put the game on TV. I think the definition of a blackout was't being debated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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