over-rated and under-rated bands: one man's insober list

[Buftex]

Okay...I am normally a huge sucker for the music threads...but I agree with Chef. Music is way too subjective to define "under-rated" and "over-rated". If Alice and Chains had never released an album, I wouldn't miss them. On the other hand, Elvis being written off as shclock, or "sloppy" or whatever is ludicrous to me. It doesn't make one opinion more correct, and another less so. It just means we appreciate one artist more than another. I hate the Beach Boys, fully aware that some hold them up as genius. That might be true, but I still don't like them. Ditto for Rush, just inducted into the Rock-n'Roll Hall of Fame. I can't presume, just because they don't pass the sniff test for me, the appreciation that so many of them have for them is unwarranted.

 

Some opinions are derived through narrow personal definitions, some with a more historical perspective. The best you can hope, in a discussion like this, is to learn something you never knew, or get turned on to something you never heard.

 

I think you just like Jewels jugs

 

Rated right about where they should be....nice!

Edited May 26, 2013 by Buftex

[4merper4mer]

I know many will disagree, but I think Bruce Springstein is ridiculously overrated. I hear he does a great live show, and who didn't love "Born in the USA", but when I hear his hit songs like "Born to Run" or "Glory Days" come on the radio I feel like I'm listening to Rick Springfield with a grittier voice.

 

 

As far as Jewel goes, she was a great artist until 2003 when she abandoned her artistic identity for bubble gum pop. If you don't know what I mean listen to "Meant for me" and follow it with "Intuition". In the first song you hear a talented artist singing a song that means something to her; the second is an empty, meaningless, emotionless canned song that might as well have been given to the latest greatest Mickey Mouse Club graduate or American Idol winner.

 

 

I also agree that Grateful Dead is underrated, often times even by their fans. Sure, not all of their songs are masterpieces, but they've got a lot of gems.

 

I agree about Bruce.

 

I have a weird one:

 

One band I think belongs on both the overrated and underrated list:

 

The Go-Go's

 

Why overrated? Because they were very popular and were absolutely horrible except for having a decent singer.

 

Why underrated? Because they could have sat back and made tons of $$$ in the eighty's but decided to be a little risky right from the beginning. Think of it like this: They got a record deal and MTV was first getting popular. People wrote catchy tunes for them and the world was their oyster. What did they do? They released an anthem to lesbianism as their first single. It was called "I love Cecile". They had the guts to stand up for a cause with their very first song. I'm not sure if they are all gay or just the one who loved Cecile but it doesn't really matter. Guts are underrated.

[Rob's House]

I agree about Bruce.

 

I have a weird one:

 

One band I think belongs on both the overrated and underrated list:

 

The Go-Go's

 

Why overrated? Because they were very popular and were absolutely horrible except for having a decent singer.

 

Why underrated? Because they could have sat back and made tons of $$$ in the eighty's but decided to be a little risky right from the beginning. Think of it like this: They got a record deal and MTV was first getting popular. People wrote catchy tunes for them and the world was their oyster. What did they do? They released an anthem to lesbianism as their first single. It was called "I love Cecile". They had the guts to stand up for a cause with their very first song. I'm not sure if they are all gay or just the one who loved Cecile but it doesn't really matter. Guts are underrated.

They also had the beat. That's underrated too.

[JÂy RÛßeÒ]

There are bands that most people revere that I never liked.

 

The Kinks

Guns & Roses

Any combination of CSNY

[Jim in Anchorage]

This is a true underated band. I remember in their day they had little more than a cult following.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro63WkTz2Gk

[Jim in Anchorage]

Software woudnt let me add this to above post. Edited May 27, 2013 by Jim in Anchorage

[KD in CA]

There are bands that most people revere that I never liked.

 

The Kinks

Guns & Roses

Any combination of CSNY

 

I don't listen to the old stuff very often these days, but I liked the Kinks -- they had a lot of great tunes. Ditto for CSNY. Guns & Roses never did much for me.

 

Agreed about Bruce. If he's from the south or west instead of the Jersey shore he's about half as rich and famous as he is now.

[Delete This Account]

yikes. Springsteen, over-rated?!? easy to cherry pick his hits. more difficult to mine a little deeper to see the depth of his ability, starting with the "Darkness" album, followed up by the prolific "The River" and then "Nebraska." what a holy trinity of albums to come out from one man. all three classics. a case, in fact, could nearly be made that some of his best work is under-rated.

"Point Blank."

"Ramrod."

the near perfect: "Stolen Car."

"State Trooper.

the actually perfect: "Open All Night."

 

and he didn't stop there, no sir, by recapturing his voice, presence and roots with the back-to-back release of "The Rising" -- perhaps the most powerful post-9/11 album and one that had an underlying spiritual-style feel to it. the title track in itself is a wonderful song. and then add in "Mary's Place," and we're off -- and "Devils and Dust," which just might be his most complete solo album, which says a lot. Devils is his most mature, to say the least. there's hardly a dud among them.

 

jeezus, The Rising's "Lonesome Day" just popped up. Wow. give that a listen.

 

the albums that have followed have been duds, but it doesn't take away the solid collection of songs and influences Bruce has brought to rock and roll.

 

as for this argument about music being subjective: geez, you think?

so what. doesn't mean we can't have this discussion every once in a while.

and in my defense of my choices, and my responses to some of the arguments being made here, simply trying to provide some personal perspective.

 

let's face it, i called it "one man's insober list" and not "definitive."

 

rock and roll music was born out of boredom and desperation out of the disenfranchised seeking a voice to define themselves. it's a democratizing and finger in the air art form that most anyone can attempt if they have a garage, guitar, amp (note: i didn't write flute.) and free time on their hands.

this is my definition of what rock and roll is, an unsettling clamor of chords and lyrics to make us feel heard and/or young and relevant.

 

there's no room for Jethro Tull excesses, and those that i believe deserve in filling out the next 9 spots.

 

jw

 

Nos. 9s coming tomorrow.

Edited May 27, 2013 by john wawrow

[Delete This Account]

I agree about Bruce.

 

I have a weird one:

 

One band I think belongs on both the overrated and underrated list:

 

The Go-Go's

 

Why overrated? Because they were very popular and were absolutely horrible except for having a decent singer.

 

Why underrated? Because they could have sat back and made tons of $$$ in the eighty's but decided to be a little risky right from the beginning. Think of it like this: They got a record deal and MTV was first getting popular. People wrote catchy tunes for them and the world was their oyster. What did they do? They released an anthem to lesbianism as their first single. It was called "I love Cecile". They had the guts to stand up for a cause with their very first song. I'm not sure if they are all gay or just the one who loved Cecile but it doesn't really matter. Guts are underrated.

 

cannot at all agree with your contention that they were all horrible except for Belinda Carlisle. c'mon.

Jane Wiedlen was the glue of the Go-Gos and the band's most under-rated member. and Gina Schock's drumming was spot on.

 

and, here is your worst mistake: they didn't have people writing songs for them. they wrote their own.

do your research before making these statements.

 

jw

Edited May 27, 2013 by john wawrow

[Chef Jim]

cannot at all agree with your contention that they were all horrible except for Belinda Carlisle. c'mon.

Jane Wiedlen was the glue of the Go-Gos and the band's most under-rated member. and Gina Schock's drumming was spot on.

 

and, here is your worst mistake: they didn't have people writing songs for them. they wrote their own.

do your research before making these statements.

 

jw

 

How do you know when you're an insufferable music snob?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you take a 4merper4mer post seriously is how.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Chef Jim

[Chef Jim]

One thing that always gets my attention in these threads is the difference between live performances and pop/radio edits. While I will be the first one to admit that Dave Matthews has become an absolute mess, they were amazing in concert in the early 90's when they built their reputation. Unfortunately, drugs and alcohol destroyed them and at this point they're embarrassing themselves.

 

Another band along those lines that I will throw in the underrated category is Blues Traveler. If you only listened to their songs on the radio or their one popular CD, you'd think they were crap, but seeing them live was one of the better music experiences I've ever had.

 

That's why I tend to only purchase live performances. You get the raw music and not some over produced/engineered crap.

[4merper4mer]

cannot at all agree with your contention that they were all horrible except for Belinda Carlisle. c'mon.

Jane Wiedlen was the glue of the Go-Gos and the band's most under-rated member. and Gina Schock's drumming was spot on.

 

and, here is your worst mistake: they didn't have people writing songs for them. they wrote their own.

do your research before making these statements.

 

jw

 

You know a lot about them. I didn't know they wrote their own crap.

 

Which one loved Cecile?

[bbb]

yikes. Springsteen, over-rated?!? easy to cherry pick his hits. more difficult to mine a little deeper to see the depth of his ability, starting with the "Darkness" album, followed up by the prolific "The River" and then "Nebraska." what a holy trinity of albums to come out from one man. all three classics. a case, in fact, could nearly be made that some of his best work is under-rated.

"Point Blank."

"Ramrod."

the near perfect: "Stolen Car."

"State Trooper.

the actually perfect: "Open All Night."

 

and he didn't stop there, no sir, by recapturing his voice, presence and roots with the back-to-back release of "The Rising" -- perhaps the most powerful post-9/11 album and one that had an underlying spiritual-style feel to it. the title track in itself is a wonderful song. and then add in "Mary's Place," and we're off -- and "Devils and Dust," which just might be his most complete solo album, which says a lot. Devils is his most mature, to say the least. there's hardly a dud among them.

 

jeezus, The Rising's "Lonesome Day" just popped up. Wow. give that a listen.

 

the albums that have followed have been duds, but it doesn't take away the solid collection of songs and influences Bruce has brought to rock and roll.

 

as for this argument about music being subjective: geez, you think?

so what. doesn't mean we can't have this discussion every once in a while.

and in my defense of my choices, and my responses to some of the arguments being made here, simply trying to provide some personal perspective.

 

let's face it, i called it "one man's insober list" and not "definitive."

 

rock and roll music was born out of boredom and desperation out of the disenfranchised seeking a voice to define themselves. it's a democratizing and finger in the air art form that most anyone can attempt if they have a garage, guitar, amp (note: i didn't write flute.) and free time on their hands.

this is my definition of what rock and roll is, an unsettling clamor of chords and lyrics to make us feel heard and/or young and relevant.

 

there's no room for Jethro Tull excesses, and those that i believe deserve in filling out the next 9 spots.

 

jw

 

Nos. 9s coming tomorrow.

 

Thank you.

 

I think I'll take just about every music critic ever's opinion over somebody who heard that he's good live and who doesn't love Born in the USA............As somebody who has seen Bruce 25 times, I can say I don't love that song, at all.

 

His lives shows are religious experiences.

[BuffaloBill]

Overrated : Phil Collins/Genesis

 

Underrated : Peter Gabriel

 

I think it depends on what Genesis period you refer to. One could argue they are under-rated in the early to mid years when they were good IMO. I think the Then there were Three album may have been the turning point.

 

I know many will disagree, but I think Bruce Springstein is ridiculously overrated. I hear he does a great live show, and who didn't love "Born in the USA", but when I hear his hit songs like "Born to Run" or "Glory Days" come on the radio I feel like I'm listening to Rick Springfield with a grittier voice.

 

 

I could not agree more. I never understood the Bruce craze.

 

Finally, while many will passionately disagree I think the Beattles are way over-rated. I think much of their music simply sucks.

[Buftex]

That's why I tend to only purchase live performances. You get the raw music and not some over produced/engineered crap.

 

Funny....I feel the same way sometimes. I have a buddy who has a music collection that rivals mine (4000+ CDs/vinyl) and one day, why hanging out at his place listeing to music I started talking to him about the live Faces album "Coast to Coast and Overtures"...he said he had never heard it...in fact, he told me, has almost no live albums in his collection...I couldn't believe it... I love live performance stuff. I like studio stuff too, but a live performance can give you a whole different feel for a tune.

[bbb]

I think it depends on what Genesis period you refer to. One could argue they are under-rated in the early to mid years when they were good IMO. I think the Then there were Three album may have been the turning point.

 

I could not agree more. I never understood the Bruce craze.

 

I do think that album was the turning point for Genesis.

 

It is not a craze when it's 40 years of sustained excellence!!

[Buftex]

as noted, got more coming. thinking of releasing the latest Tuesday morning.

a few thoughts: Elvis Presley can never be over-rated despite his long, slow, spiral into sloppiness. that said, i would suggest that he was the least interesting and least talented of the Sun Studios' Mount Rushmore rounded out by Johnny Cash, Carl Perkins and Jerry Lee Lewis. now those three could rock.

 

 

Funny...everyone always forgets Charlie Rich....IMO, the ranking goes Elvis, Charlie Rich, Perkins, Jerry Lee and then Cash. If it is a Mount Rushmore, Cash is the one I leave off. I think Johnny has benefitted mightily from the hipster makeover over the last 15-20 years. If you go back and really listen to his catalog, it spirals every bit as far into slopiness that Elvis' ever did..he just lived long enough to be saved by the young turks. That doesnt' mean to say I don't like him...

 

How do you know when you're an insufferable music snob?

 

When you take a 4merper4mer post seriously is how.

 

[Doc]

This thread is overrated. Taste is subjective. And just because you like an artist's or a band's song or songs, it doesn't mean you have to like everything by him/her/them, or even him/her/the band.

[Chef Jim]

I think it depends on what Genesis period you refer to. One could argue they are under-rated in the early to mid years when they were good IMO. I think the Then there were Three album may have been the turning point.

 

 

One could argue? No I think it's 100% certain. They were uber underrated during the Peter Gabriel years and WAY overrated after. Su, su, sussudio. Are you !@#$ing kidding me.

 

Funny....I feel the same way sometimes. I have a buddy who has a music collection that rivals mine (4000+ CDs/vinyl) and one day, why hanging out at his place listeing to music I started talking to him about the live Faces album "Coast to Coast and Overtures"...he said he had never heard it...in fact, he told me, has almost no live albums in his collection...I couldn't believe it... I love live performance stuff. I like studio stuff too, but a live performance can give you a whole different feel for a tune.

 

Hmmm...Chef Jim and Buftex are growing up. Lately we've been agreeing more than disagreeing.

[bbb]

Isn't it agreed that Sussudio is pretty much the worst crap ever put on a recording?

 

BTW, my vote for overrated is GNR..............And, the thing is probably my all time favorite song is Sweet Child O Mine...........But, everything else I have tried to get into and just can't. None of it has the melody of Sweet Child. Just repetitive pounding.

[Chef Jim]

Isn't it agreed that Sussudio is pretty much the worst crap ever put on a recording?

 

BTW, my vote for overrated is GNR..............And, the thing is probably my all time favorite song is Sweet Child O Mine...........But, everything else I have tried to get into and just can't. None of it has the melody of Sweet Child. Just repetitive pounding.

 

You know the first time I heard Welcome to the Jungle I thought it was amazing anything but repetitive pounding. More complex than a lot of other metal band crap being put out there. When I found out it was GNR I was floored. I used to see their name on the Troubadour on Santa Monica Blvd when I drove by for work. By then it was too late to see them in the tiny venue.

 

BTW Duff runs a wealth management firm for musicians. Dude almost died when his pancreas exploded. He used to drink a gallon of vodka a day and switched to wine seeing he felt it wasn't as bad as the heavy stuff. The proceeded to drink 10 bottles a day. I've been known to hit the wine pretty hard but I'm tapped out at two bottles but ten??? WTF dude.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Chef Jim

[Delete This Account]

Funny...everyone always forgets Charlie Rich....IMO, the ranking goes Elvis, Charlie Rich, Perkins, Jerry Lee and then Cash. If it is a Mount Rushmore, Cash is the one I leave off. I think Johnny has benefitted mightily from the hipster makeover over the last 15-20 years. If you go back and really listen to his catalog, it spirals every bit as far into slopiness that Elvis' ever did..he just lived long enough to be saved by the young turks. That doesnt' mean to say I don't like him...

 

 

 

 

hipster movement. is the one you're referring to when he went to Folsom County Prison to perform. or might it just be the "Boy Named Sue?" "Don't Take Your Guns to Town," "I Walk The Line," "Ring of Fire," or might it be when he teamed up with the Carter Family. or, might it be the rebel finger in the air pose he struck on a billboard in Nashville to share his disdain for the corporate sound?

yes, him redoing "Hurt" saved his soul and reputation, given that his reputation as a "rocker/rebel" had already been established long before Rick Rubin got to him. Leave Johnny Cash off? Charlie Rich did to country music what essentially Michael MacDonald did to rock and the Doobie Brothers.

 

jw

Edited May 27, 2013 by john wawrow

[DC Tom]

Isn't it agreed that Sussudio is pretty much the worst crap ever put on a recording?

 

No, that would be - wait for it...

 

 

...this.

 

[Doc]

No, that would be - wait for it...

 

 

...this.

I'll see you that, and raise you this:

 

[DC Tom]

I'll see you that, and raise you this:

 

Well if we're going to do theater of the absurd...

 

[Rob's House]

Thank you.

 

I think I'll take just about every music critic ever's opinion over somebody who heard that he's good live and who doesn't love Born in the USA............As somebody who has seen Bruce 25 times, I can say I don't love that song, at all.

 

His lives shows are religious experiences.

To each his own. I don't begrudge you your religious experience, I just don't share it. Perhaps if I mined his old albums I might find something to change my opinion, but from what I've heard, which is most everything he's put out that ever got air play, he doesn't do much for me. Also, he's awfully damn soft for a guy who is supposed to exemplify rock. I really don't too much care for any of his songs, including Born in the USA (although when I was 8 that song was awesome).

 

Isn't it agreed that Sussudio is pretty much the worst crap ever put on a recording?

 

BTW, my vote for overrated is GNR..............And, the thing is probably my all time favorite song is Sweet Child O Mine...........But, everything else I have tried to get into and just can't. None of it has the melody of Sweet Child. Just repetitive pounding.

You should check out Use Your Illusion 2. There are some excellent songs on that album. If I'm in the right mood on a spring day when the sun is shining, I can have a religious experience listening to "Breakdown".

[bbb]

You know the first time I heard Welcome to the Jungle I thought it was amazing anything but repetitive pounding. More complex than a lot of other metal band crap being put out there. When I found out it was GNR I was floored. I used to see their name on the Troubadour on Santa Monica Blvd when I drove by for work. By then it was too late to see them in the tiny venue.

 

BTW Duff runs a wealth management firm for musicians. Dude almost died when his pancreas exploded. He used to drink a gallon of vodka a day and switched to wine seeing he felt it wasn't as bad as the heavy stuff. The proceeded to drink 10 bottles a day. I've been known to hit the wine pretty hard but I'm tapped out at two bottles but ten??? WTF dude.

 

 

He writes columns on espn.com, too. Interesting guy.

[Delete This Account]

To each his own. I don't begrudge you your religious experience, I just don't share it. Perhaps if I mined his old albums I might find something to change my opinion, but from what I've heard, which is most everything he's put out that ever got air play, he doesn't do much for me. Also, he's awfully damn soft for a guy who is supposed to exemplify rock. I really don't too much care for any of his songs, including Born in the USA (although when I was 8 that song was awesome).

 

 

 

from what you've heard isn't enough? i listed numerous songs that aren't either "Born In The USA" or off that album or "Tunnel of Love." give them a listen before going further in making accusations.

as noted: many of his less popular songs can be regarded as under-rated. many.

 

jw

Edited May 27, 2013 by john wawrow

[bbb]

The one thing I can see people not liking is Bruce's voice. When I first heard it, I was like who told this guy he could sing??

[Doc]

Well if we're going to do theater of the absurd...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LYIJvBmHaQo

That's infinitely better than Becky or Billy attempting to sing. At least Anka can.

[Mark Vader]

One could argue? No I think it's 100% certain. They were uber underrated during the Peter Gabriel years and WAY overrated after. Su, su, sussudio. Are you !@#$ing kidding me.

 

 

 

Hmmm...Chef Jim and Buftex are growing up. Lately we've been agreeing more than disagreeing.

.

Let's not get carried away.

[Doc]

Sussudio was Phil Collins, not Genesis.

[birdog1960]

i'll limit t to well known bands so that eliminates quite a few under appreciated ones.

 

most underrated: Talking Heads. way ahead of their time. talented. true to their art.

Michael Buble. perfect pitch. impeccable timing and phrasing. understated persona.

Haley Westenra. angelic. amazing range and tone.

most overrated. Sinatra, especially in the later years. many better voices out there. too dramatized in many cases for my taste.

Springsteen. just never got it. never got my adrenaline flowing. never came close to putting me in awe.

Streisand. just annoys the hell out of me.

Jimmy Buffet. wtf? i've seen much better acts with much more talent playing in honky tonks for tips.

Edited May 28, 2013 by birdog1960

[Maury Ballstein]

Underrated....weezer .....g love and special sauce

[Gugny]

Isn't it agreed that Sussudio is pretty much the worst crap ever put on a recording?

 

BTW, my vote for overrated is GNR..............And, the thing is probably my all time favorite song is Sweet Child O Mine...........But, everything else I have tried to get into and just can't. None of it has the melody of Sweet Child. Just repetitive pounding.

You're showing your naiveté about music. Sussudio is probably the most beautifully written song Peter Gabriel ever put to paper. I like Guns and Roses, but I can see how they could be overrated. But dissing a Gabriel classic just loses all of your credibility, dude.

[Delete This Account]

You're showing your naiveté about music. Sussudio is probably the most beautifully written song Peter Gabriel ever put to paper. I like Guns and Roses, but I can see how they could be overrated. But dissing a Gabriel classic just loses all of your credibility, dude.

 

you're kidding, right, in regards to who wrote Sussudio? my god, do people just put stuff out believing or hoping it to be true?

 

jw

 

as for the best song Peter Gabriel actually wrote, it's essentially a toss up between: Solsbury Hill and Biko.

Edited May 28, 2013 by john wawrow

[Gugny]

 

 

you're kidding, right, in regards to who wrote Sussudio? my god, do people just put stuff out believing or hoping it to be true?

 

jw

 

as for the best song Peter Gabriel actually wrote, it's essentially a toss up between: Solsbury Hill and Biko.

Here we go. Another one who believes what's in the parentheses below the song title. Let me guess; you think Lennon and McCartney actually collaborated on all those Beatles tunes, right? Phil Collins couldn't dream of writing an epic song like Sussudio. Any true Genesis fan knows it was a Gabriel throwback. And Salisbury Hill was nothing but a pop song with synthesized horns. Weak.

[bbb]

I know who sang Sussudio because I have it on a 42.

[Jim in Anchorage]

I know who sang Sussudio because I have it on a 42.

45. 42 is the distance Norwood missed the SB field goal from.

[bbb]

LMAO!