Buffalo could very well field both the DROY and OROY this year

[Cash]

No! You must remember! Or all is lost.

Remember!

 

 

Unless you're a red hot smokin blond with dragon babies, you're probably smokin' something.

Yes I'm aware of the excellent season the two interior lineman are having. Kiko is a league leader in tackles and INTs. If there was a vote today it wouldn't even be close. Kiko would win. Not taking away from the two big men but their stat line won't be too compelling to voters.

 

Which is the same logic you correctly use for Geno. He is credited with 4, 4th QTR come from behind wins in his career. Manning and Elway had a combined 1 at this point. Half way through the season as much as I hate the Jets, Geno is a QB and would win OROY without a question. Lacy has come on as of late, but he is no where near the OROY over a winning rookie QB at this point.

 

Now what happens in the second half of the season is anyone's guess.

 

Good luck to Kiko again.

 

Pretty spot on. Kiko has glamour stats that put him way above the competition, regardless of actual quality of play. The #1 glamour stat for QBs is wins, and Geno has his team 5-4. They finish 7-9 or worse, he probably has no chance. They make the playoffs, he's a mortal lock.

[Dragonborn10]

No! You must remember! Or all is lost.

Remember!

 

 

Unless you're a red hot smokin blond with dragon babies, you're probably smokin' something.

Yes I'm aware of the excellent season the two interior lineman are having. Kiko is a league leader in tackles and INTs. If there was a vote today it wouldn't even be close. Kiko would win. Not taking away from the two big men but their stat line won't be too compelling to voters.

 

Which is the same logic you correctly use for Geno. He is credited with 4, 4th QTR come from behind wins in his career. Manning and Elway had a combined 1 at this point. Half way through the season as much as I hate the Jets, Geno is a QB and would win OROY without a question. Lacy has come on as of late, but he is no where near the OROY over a winning rookie QB at this point.

 

Now what happens in the second half of the season is anyone's guess.

 

Good luck to Kiko again.

First remember this is a PR award. Kiko's heroics were in the first four-five games. If the Jets make a playoff run and the Bills are out of the playoff picture Kiko will get less and less coverage nationally.

[1B4IDie]

First remember this is a PR award. Kiko's heroics were in the first four-five games. If the Jets make a playoff run and the Bills are out of the playoff picture Kiko will get less and less coverage nationally.

I understand the argument.

Case in Point is Luke Kuechly

 

If he stays healthy and continues to lead in tackles (which was through the first 9 games) its a shoe in. If he gets 3 more INT this season he owns the single season record for INTS for LB. IN NFL HISTORY!

 

With the weaksauce part of the schedule coming up. You got to think he'll get atleast 1 more int.

 

So yeah it is a popularity contest. Defensive Lineman generally don't win those generally.

[26CornerBlitz]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20131105/nfl-midseason-report-2013-peyton-manning-kansas-city-chiefs/?sct=nfl_wr_a2#all

 

• Defensive Rookie of the Year -- Kiko Alonso, LB, Buffalo: The kid doesn't talk much, but the second-round pick can sure play. And I mean every play, without ever leaving the field. Alonso is third in the league in tackles (89), tied for the lead in interceptions (four), with two sacks, a fumble forced and a fumble recovered. Buffalo, at 3-6, has lost some heartbreakers, but through little fault of Alonso.

[YoloinOhio]

Remember this thread? Oh, how things change...

[boyst]

Remember this thread? Oh, how things change...

non reason kiko shouldn't get it. And robey deserves something. On this stacked d team he has been clutch

 

Ej... dude got hurt. I figured woods was a better shot by far

[YoloinOhio]

non reason kiko shouldn't get it. And robey deserves something. On this stacked d team he has been clutch

 

Ej... dude got hurt. I figured woods was a better shot by far

I think Kiko will get it too. I sure hope so. He deserves it. As far as Robey - big props to the Bills personnel guys and college scouts. This is where you can really see the results of the work scouts do, when they find a UDFA like this who ends up contributing.

[Bill from NYC]

I think Kiko will get it too. I sure hope so. He deserves it. As far as Robey - big props to the Bills personnel guys and college scouts. This is where you can really see the results of the work scouts do, when they find a UDFA like this who ends up contributing.

 

You are 100% right!!!

 

In the Levy/Jauron years they would have probably spent a second round pick on this kid, if they even recognized that he was good. Getting a player such as Robey as a UDFA makes the Bills less prone to waste early picks on defensive backs with top picks and focus on QB, OL, and of course pass rushing DE. We also need linebackers.

 

I for one was quite impressed with the 2013 Bills draft. Toss Robey into the picture and I like it that much more.

[3rdand12]

well said. kiko is one hell of a football player. And Robey is just a gem. watch the kid play and ya gotta love him.

[boyst]

You are 100% right!!!

 

In the Levy/Jauron years they would have probably spent a second round pick on this kid, if they even recognized that he was good. Getting a player such as Robey as a UDFA makes the Bills less prone to waste early picks on defensive backs with top picks and focus on QB, OL, and of course pass rushing DE. We also need linebackers.

 

I for one was quite impressed with the 2013 Bills draft. Toss Robey into the picture and I like it that much more.

Is it evil of me to hope we draft a DB every year in the first round just because I look forward to reading about your take on the guys for years to come...

[Dibs]

I think Kiko will get it too. I sure hope so. He deserves it. As far as Robey - big props to the Bills personnel guys and college scouts. This is where you can really see the results of the work scouts do, when they find a UDFA like this who ends up contributing.

 

I'm not so sure on that. From 2004-2008 we found 4 great late picks(or UDFAs) FJ, Peters, Stevie, K.Williams. Over that same span we only really had one player in the first 4 rounds who panned out for us......and that was McKelvin who has only really caught on in this his 6th season.

 

I'm not convinced that finding success from late drafted - UDFAs is anything more than luck.

[YoloinOhio]

I'm not so sure on that. From 2004-2008 we found 4 great late picks(or UDFAs) FJ, Peters, Stevie, K.Williams. Over that same span we only really had one player in the first 4 rounds who panned out for us......and that was McKelvin who has only really caught on in this his 6th season.

 

I'm not convinced that finding success from late drafted - UDFAs is anything more than luck.

 

I have to respectfully disagree - no matter how it seems, I know guys in college scouting roles for NFL FOs and the amount of work that goes into determining the later round picks and UDFAs (this is where they really shine) is absolutely enormous. Bill Polian says it all the time that the later rounds and the days following the draft is where the scouts earn their money for the hundreds of days per year they spend on the road watching college practices, talking to coaches, etc. The higher rounds are much different - college scouts have some input but most of the research is being done at a higher level. It is anything BUT luck later on. Edited November 15, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo

[Leelee Phoenix]

Manuel had a great shot at it, only would have took a decent season. Oh well

[YoloinOhio]

LindaJ ‏@LJ9111011 2h

"@TCBILLS_Astro: Nickell Robey now rated 16th of 105 CBs in pass coverage by #ProFootballFocus; 22nd-rated overall" Way to Go @RDR_21 !!!

[Dibs]

I have to respectfully disagree - no matter how it seems, I know guys in college scouting roles for NFL FOs and the amount of work that goes into determining the later round picks and UDFAs (this is where they really shine) is absolutely enormous. Bill Polian says it all the time that the later rounds and the days following the draft is where the scouts earn their money for the hundreds of days per year they spend on the road watching college practices, talking to coaches, etc. The higher rounds are much different - college scouts have some input but most of the research is being done at a higher level. It is anything BUT luck later on.

 

Ahhh.....I didn't realize that the assessments are done by different teams of guys(or there abouts). This now makes a lot more sense how we could have good success with later picks and horrible success with the early picks.

 

Thanks for that.

[YoloinOhio]

Ahhh.....I didn't realize that the assessments are done by different teams of guys(or there abouts). This now makes a lot more sense how we could have good success with later picks and horrible success with the early picks.

 

Thanks for that.

My understanding is that the higher rounds are known entities and they don't need the scouts as much - for example, the player personnel directors, pro scouts, even GMs will go scout guys on gameday like Manziel, Mariotta, CJ Mosely, whatever. They want to see them in live game action but the "stats" on them so to speak are already available. The college scouts are there at the little schools in BFE sitting at practice watching guys like Fred Jackson for weeks, timing him, tracking his work ethic, attitude, etc. I think Robey was actually a function of Marrone's familiarity with him having played USC a couple times (Woods also)... that is one benefit of getting a coach from college, they are typically a wealth of knowledge about talent in the draft. We see the same with Pete Carroll and Jim Harbaugh.

[Alphadawg7]

Remember this thread? Oh, how things change...

 

What has changed is that EJ got hurt in Preseason then again in the regular season. At the time I started this thread, the idea of EJ contending for the award was actually more plausible than Kiko according to the posters here.

 

And for the record to everyone in this thread...I never once said at any point we WOULD win both the OROY and DROY. I simply posted that it was possible given we had 2 picks from rounds one and two, that looked very good in camp and that were going to play right from the start of week 1 and get a lot of opportunities this year.

 

And if the people mocking this thread were really being honest with themselves, they would now realize that it was NOT a far fetched idea at all, especially considering Kiko is a front runner for DROY and EJ won rookie of the week in week 2, had us at 2-2 before he got hurt and possibly 3-2 if he finishes in Cleveland where he had us driving late to take the lead and was playing well. Had he not gotten hurt, odds are we win a couple more of the games that we literally lost because of Tuel (he threw a pick 6 in each of his two games that literally lost us those games) and Thad and his turnover issues that cost us games. That means if he could very much still be in the conversation at this point had he not missed time.

 

So, I still feel good about my original speculation that these 2 would contend and would take the exact same stance if I could do it over again. Best part is the one I got mocked the most about was Kiko...lol.

[YoloinOhio]

What has changed is that EJ got hurt in Preseason then again in the regular season. At the time I started this thread, the idea of EJ contending for the award was actually more plausible than Kiko according to the posters here.

 

And for the record to everyone in this thread...I never once said at any point we WOULD win both the OROY and DROY. I simply posted that it was possible given we had 2 picks from rounds one and two, that looked very good in camp and that were going to play right from the start of week 1 and get a lot of opportunities this year.

 

And if the people mocking this thread were really being honest with themselves, they would now realize that it was NOT a far fetched idea at all, especially considering Kiko is a front runner for DROY and EJ won rookie of the week in week 2, had us at 2-2 before he got hurt and possibly 3-2 if he finishes in Cleveland where he had us driving late to take the lead and was playing well. Had he not gotten hurt, odds are we win a couple more of the games that we literally lost because of Tuel (he threw a pick 6 in each of his two games that literally lost us those games) and Thad and his turnover issues that cost us games. That means if he could very much still be in the conversation at this point had he not missed time.

 

So, I still feel good about my original speculation that these 2 would contend and would take the exact same stance if I could do it over again. Best part is the one I got mocked the most about was Kiko...lol.

I wasn't mocking the thread at all... I was kind of mocking those who have changed their outlook so much since the injury and apparently forgot the first 5 games...

[4merper4mer]

Is it possible that The Legend of Kiko Alonso could result in him getting both DROY and OROY?

 

Maybe they should put him in at TE.

Edited November 15, 2013 by 4merper4mer

[atlbillsfan1975]

LindaJ ‏@LJ9111011 2h

"@TCBILLS_Astro: Nickell Robey now rated 16th of 105 CBs in pass coverage by #ProFootballFocus; 22nd-rated overall" Way to Go @RDR_21 !!!

Wow!

I would love to see wher ethe Falcons two rookie DB's rank in there.

Atl spent a 1st and believe 3rd rounder on CB's in this years draft.

[Alphadawg7]

I wasn't mocking the thread at all... I was kind of mocking those who have changed their outlook so much since the injury and apparently forgot the first 5 games...

 

Oh I know, that's why I referenced everyone in the thread as I was just posting a general response too to respond to other posters. Sorry probably should have seperated that from my reply to your post

[T master]

DROY maybe OROY not a chance there has not been one that stands out making clutch plays when needed & has become a staple on this offense .

 

Wood is the only one that has been even consistent , EJ is mediocre at best & we let go of some that could have helped the offense more than others that we kept .

 

If Graham doesn't show he can at least catch a ball when he's open he would be gone even though he isn't a rookie sure speed is great but what good is it if you can't catch it once you get open ?

 

We should have kept D. Rogers, B. Kaufman & let Hogan, Graham walk & resigned Nelson but as it goes here we are ...

[YoloinOhio]

DROY maybe OROY not a chance there has not been one that stands out making clutch plays when needed & has become a staple on this offense .

 

Wood is the only one that has been even consistent , EJ is mediocre at best & we let go of some that could have helped the offense more than others that we kept .

 

If Graham doesn't show he can at least catch a ball when he's open he would be gone even though he isn't a rookie sure speed is great but what good is it if you can't catch it once you get open ?

 

We should have kept D. Rogers, B. Kaufman & let Hogan, Graham walk & resigned Nelson but as it goes here we are ...

Why those 3?

[JESSEFEFFER]

Probability of winning 1 is up to 40% and of winning both at 5% is my guess. Still early in the season and the injury scenarios keep the numbers from going higher. So, I guess I am saying that it's worth more mainstream consideration and, if the probablities keep climbing, puts AD7 in the running for TBD post of the year.

 

If the Bills were to be a playoff calibre team, the pro football writers will be inclined to want to explain it somehow. Two RsOY would help it make sense.

 

As an update I think that the probability of winning one is up to 60% and both is up to 10% (Kiko 50% EJ at 20%). EJ's return to health gives him an improved chance and if he leads the Bills to a hot finish and maybe the playoffs, it will make an impression.

[tennesseeboy]

DROY is a distinct possibility. I can't imagine that Alonso would not be in the top five at this point. EJ is a different kettle of fish. He's kind of in the mix despite his injury but he will have to keep up his Jets game play level through the rest of the season to be a serious contender. If we (very unlikely) make the playoffs he will be a very serious contender.

[YoloinOhio]

DROY is a distinct possibility. I can't imagine that Alonso would not be in the top five at this point. EJ is a different kettle of fish. He's kind of in the mix despite his injury but he will have to keep up his Jets game play level through the rest of the season to be a serious contender. If we (very unlikely) make the playoffs he will be a very serious contender.

I think if Tavon Austin has another good game or two he will be considered for OROY. Lacey will likely get it.

[MDH]

I think if Tavon Austin has another good game or two he will be considered for OROY. Lacey will likely get it.

 

Is this a joke? Before his one good game Austin was considered one of the biggest disappointments of the rookie class. The guy would have to catch fire the last 3rd of the season.

Edited November 20, 2013 by MDH