NoSaint Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 IMO, Brad's got to be gone in this offense, now that we have some size on the outside. He's a long strider, rather than quick, which is what this group is going to emphasize. And I just can't see any Wildcat in the Bills future... Well, I imagine instead of "wildcat" it'll be "option" and ej will run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 IMO, Brad's got to be gone in this offense, now that we have some size on the outside. He's a long strider, rather than quick, which is what this group is going to emphasize. And I just can't see any Wildcat in the Bills future... I'm not sure about that although I am admittedly biased because I think Smith is a big talent. Marrone went out of his way last night in the press conference to say how well Brad Smith was in the OTAs, the first guy he mentioned. Marrone and Hackett love playmaking ability and speed, and Smith possesses both. I could easily see them keeping Smith and using him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I'm not sure about that although I am admittedly biased because I think Smith is a big talent. Marrone went out of his way last night in the press conference to say how well Brad Smith was in the OTAs, the first guy he mentioned. Marrone and Hackett love playmaking ability and speed, and Smith possesses both. I could easily see them keeping Smith and using him. It just doesn't make financial sense, IMO. That money could be redeployed so much more effectively. I hope Buddy sees that as well, even if the coaching staff says nice things about him running around in shorts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 It just doesn't make financial sense, IMO. That money could be redeployed so much more effectively. I hope Buddy sees that as well, even if the coaching staff says nice things about him running around in shorts... It depends on what they want to spend it on. Smith is owed 2.75m plus a 500K roster bonus (don't know the date it goes into effect though). That's a lot, but not necessarily if he is going to play WR, KR and gunner. We have a couple draftees that can play gunner. Goodwin could be a KR. So we may not need him. But Marrone and Hackett could very well love him and can't wait to use him. It's basically the same thing as the K drafted. If they want to save almost 2m and use it to re-sign Byrd, then they cut Lindell and keep the rookie. They could do the same thing with Smith. I will predict that they keep Smith because they want the talent and we have the money. I wouldn't bet on it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I have it from very reliable sources that Stevie Johnson is in charge of the off-season workout plans for Woods, Goodwin and Rogers. We are screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) It just doesn't make financial sense, IMO. That money could be redeployed so much more effectively. I hope Buddy sees that as well, even if the coaching staff says nice things about him running around in shorts... Pettine knows him in pads too though. Coached defenses against him 5 days a week for years. I could see him being a guy that gets extra reps early as a vet, then keeps more valuable players off special teams helping keep them healthy (like mckelvin, who as #2 cb with little depth shouldn't touch kicks), with occasional gadgets or insurance against injury/bust Behind Stevie, if we keep tj and the 3 youngsters - we have a combined 31 catches for 300 yards. Edited April 28, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Pettine knows him in pads too though. Coached defenses against him 5 days a week for years. I could see him being a guy that gets extra reps early as a vet, then keeps more valuable players off special teams, with occasional gadgets or insurance against injury/bust Behind Stevie, if we keep tj and the 3 youngsters - we have a combined 31 catches for 300 yards. Good points, both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Lindell is as good as gone. No way is he on the roster game 1 unless Hopkins stubs his toe and can't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I think the odd players out are Dickerson (he is listed as a WR now, correct?) and Easley. I think Brad Smith makes the team. Anyways after years of having a pea shooter offense I'm looking forward to watching a QB with a big arm who can make all the throws operate with an arsenal which will allow him to attack the entire field. I think we'll be seeing more "heaving of the rock" and taking big shots downfield than we have since the Losman to Evans season of 2006. That will be very cathartic after having to watch Fitz and Company's bad impersonation of a deep passing attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Now now, they're still rookies. Remember how hyped we were for james hardy and roscoe This. I'm excited on paper, but in reality, none of them have played a nfl snap. So I'll wait until pre-season before I get too excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I think the odd players out are Dickerson (he is listed as a WR now, correct?) and Easley. I think Brad Smith makes the team. Anyways after years of having a pea shooter offense I'm looking forward to watching a QB with a big arm who can make all the throws operate with an arsenal which will allow him to attack the entire field. I think we'll be seeing more "heaving of the rock" and taking big shots downfield than we have since the Losman to Evans season of 2006. That will be very cathartic after having to watch Fitz and Company's bad impersonation of a deep passing attack. Agreed. Dickerson might get a spot if chandler starts on pup... But I think the two picks are a gimme and da'rick would require a real disaster not to have a spot.... Leaves a question about 6 and brad is a special teams ace and vet WR. Huge leg up for the spot if it exists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Pettine knows him in pads too though. Coached defenses against him 5 days a week for years. Yeah, but wasn't his knowledge of him related to stopping the wildcat, which is unlikely to be a part of Hackett's offense? And as was said above, Manuel can play that 'option' role in year one, even if he can't get on the field as a full-time QB behind Kolb. I could see him being a guy that gets extra reps early as a vet, then keeps more valuable players off special teams helping keep them healthy (like mckelvin, who as #2 cb with little depth shouldn't touch kicks), with occasional gadgets or insurance against injury/bust While that 'mentor' role could be a possibility, it still seems like an expensive luxury. I'd much rather use that budget at another position of need, like having Dansby be a steady veteran influence on a young LB group, or Moore playing the same role on the O-line. Or, if it's just a straight out money save, putting those dollars to work for Bryd. (Lindell's $300,000 cap save isn't much help there, )... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Agreed. Dickerson might get a spot if chandler starts on pup... But I think the two picks are a gimme and da'rick would require a real disaster not to have a spot.... Leaves a question about 6 and brad is a special teams ace and vet WR. Huge leg up for the spot if it exists That's what I am thinking. They will keep 6. What's going to be hard is what they do with Dickerson. He may just be the odd man out. To me, they will play Caussin at the Chandler spot in training camp and preseason unless Chandler can go, and then just cut Caussin when Chandler is ready to go. I think Chandler himself said he is going to be ready for training camp but it remains to be seen. I think they design a position in the offense for Dickerson and Gragg, who are close to the same size, and who will play a hybrid TE/HB/FB. Marrone even spoke about a defensive tackle playing FB on goal line and short yardage last night after the draft. Summers is all they have. They may just forgo the FB position and keep 6 WR and 4 TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 That's what I am thinking. They will keep 6. What's going to be hard is what they do with Dickerson. He may just be the odd man out. To me, they will play Caussin at the Chandler spot in training camp and preseason unless Chandler can go, and then just cut Caussin when Chandler is ready to go. I think Chandler himself said he is going to be ready for training camp but it remains to be seen. I think they design a position in the offense for Dickerson and Gragg, who are close to the same size, and who will play a hybrid TE/HB/FB. Marrone even spoke about a defensive tackle playing FB on goal line and short yardage last night after the draft. Summers is all they have. They may just forgo the FB position and keep 6 WR and 4 TE. Very likely FB saves us a spot. I think Gragg is a great practice squad option too, potentially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Or, if it's just a straight out money save, putting those dollars to work for Bryd. (Lindell's $300,000 cap save isn't much help there, )... Not sure the cap will play into it as much as real dollars. I didn't like the K pick at first, but if he is decently accurate, which he seems to be, I say save the 2m from Lindell and use it to lock up Byrd or sign Dansby or Moore as you said. They of course could do the same with Smith, but to me that is taking away from some stuff you do on offense. Frankly, it just comes down to whether Marrone and Hackett love the toy that is Brad Smith. They may and they may not. I'm predicting they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 And while we're on the subject, I think Brad Smith is now a wide receiver on this team. There's no reason for him to play QB. With his exceptional athleticism, I'm excited to see how he does as a full time WR. I still remember that awesome jump ball TD he had against the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeisterHollow Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Man - even Kaufman WR, UDFA, looks good! I just watched some highlights on him - he had a 10 catch game against Desmond Trufant. Even if he's just used as a sort of endzone / possession type reciever, he's got potential. And, he's faster than suggested. This WR corps went from nothing much to a hole lotta something fast! It's going to be one of those situations where I really don't want to see someone or 2 get cut! We're keeping 6 on the active roster, I'd bet. That means Stevie, Woods, Graham, Goodwin, Rogers, and either Easley, Smith, or Kaufman. Kaufman could go to the practice squad. I think Easley has to make it or he's gone. That leaves Smith as the odd man out IF Easley makes it. If Easley goes Smith stays, unless, of course, Kaufman really impresses at camp. That's a WR corps that can grow together for years - I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Strangley I remember last year when people proclaimed we had the best young corner duo in the league with Aaron Williams and Stephen Gilmour. How'd that turn out? I'd rather have David Nelson in the WR Corp at this stage because he's proven and the rookies aren't. I don't like the Goodwin pick because it says TJ Graham was a wasted pick. However I can't see many people not liking the Woods move and Rogers as an UDFA looks excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Strangley I remember last year when people proclaimed we had the best young corner duo in the league with Aaron Williams and Stephen Gilmour. How'd that turn out? I'd rather have David Nelson in the WR Corp at this stage because he's proven and the rookies aren't. I don't like the Goodwin pick because it says TJ Graham was a wasted pick. However I can't see many people not liking the Woods move and Rogers as an UDFA looks excellent. Your first point is a good one and very true. I was quite disappointed in not keeping Nelson, but after this draft it became glaringly apparent why they didn't. They want speed and big play ability across the board, and Nelson is not that kind of player. There is a method to the madness. Let's hope it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I'd like to see us start Kolb, but incorporate packages into the game plan for EJ like we did with Brad Smith, but make them a larger part of the offense. That way EJ can get his feet wet with some live action and adjust to the speed of the game in small doses, while also allowing us to have a more flexible attack. That is what I think you will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Agreed. GM grills potential coaches about scheme, philosophy etc... Picks his guy. Coach gets scouts and GM his priorities in evaluation. GM puts together a board based on priorities in the coaches schemes/style. From there I think you go by the board but coaches might tag a few guys as priority and the GM makes every effort to get that guy (EJ for example) And, ironically, I just caught the tail-end of a show with Mariucci and Irvin focusing on "top prospect" WRs.....where Irvin teaches elements of the pro-game......anywho, what was interesting is the Bills are now in possession of 2 of the top 5(6?) WRs highlighted on the show and who were brought in to work with Mooch / Irvin.....Woods and Rodgers.....pretty interesting and informative piece, especially in light of this draft. Me thinks this could pan out quite well for the Bills in 2013 and beyond. I guess if you want to hang your hat on who called the commish with the pick ("made the pick")--fine, it was Buddy. But because of the stark contrast of this draft from the others, I just can't believe that Marrone said anything like "I need a QB QB who can run the read-option and some speed receivers..can you go out and get me some?"--like he was sending him to Wegmans with a grocery list. I'm inclined to believe it was collaborative, but that there wasn't a single instance where Marrone didn't first say "let's take ____" before each pick. The point is that the consensus was driven by who Marrone wanted. Do you think there was a single pick where Buddy disagreed with what his HC wanted? Who in the room is going to disagree with what the newHC of a team in trouble wants? And why would anyone? I bet Buddy said this more than once: "hooo dawg, that sounds good to me!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I guess if you want to hang your hat on who called the commish with the pick ("made the pick")--fine, it was Buddy. But because of the stark contrast of this draft from the others, I just can't believe that Marrone said anything like "I need a QB QB who can run the read-option and some speed receivers..can you go out and get me some?"--like he was sending him to Wegmans with a grocery list. I'm inclined to believe it was collaborative, but that there wasn't a single instance where Marrone didn't first say "let's take ____" before each pick. The point is that the consensus was driven by who Marrone wanted. Do you think there was a single pick where Buddy disagreed with what his HC wanted? Who in the room is going to disagree with what the newHC of a team in trouble wants? And why would anyone? I bet Buddy said this more than once: "hooo dawg, that sounds good to me!". Obviously it's collaborative but I don't think marrone evaluated 300+ guys and had a board either. They collaborated on weighted skillsets and positions, and our scouting staff created rankings. Marrone might've had pick between a handful of guys lined up by the scouting staff but generally our scouts and GM still have jobs for a reason. I don't think our process was somehow different than the wide majority of war rooms. My guess, nix had final say still 100% but that they were obviously working towards a common goal For example someone mentioned marrone giving nix his breakdown for the 90 man roster and nix was free to fill the spots to get to those desired counts. The GM is the boss but the two sides really work for each other when effectively functioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I guess if you want to hang your hat on who called the commish with the pick ("made the pick")--fine, it was Buddy. But because of the stark contrast of this draft from the others, I just can't believe that Marrone said anything like "I need a QB QB who can run the read-option and some speed receivers..can you go out and get me some?"--like he was sending him to Wegmans with a grocery list. I'm inclined to believe it was collaborative, but that there wasn't a single instance where Marrone didn't first say "let's take ____" before each pick. The point is that the consensus was driven by who Marrone wanted. Do you think there was a single pick where Buddy disagreed with what his HC wanted? Who in the room is going to disagree with what the newHC of a team in trouble wants? And why would anyone? I bet Buddy said this more than once: "hooo dawg, that sounds good to me!". As I said before, I have no doubt that when making picks, Buddy took Gailey's input into account, like it appeared he took Marrone's. I can see Gailey having told Buddy "hey, don't take a QB high because dadgumit, Fitz is the real deal!" Or "stay away from those bad boys. They're harder to control than a greased pig!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 As I said before, I have no doubt that when making picks, Buddy took Gailey's input into account, like it appeared he took Marrone's. I can see Gailey having told Buddy "hey, don't take a QB high because dadgumit, Fitz is the real deal!" Or "stay away from those bad boys. They're harder to control than a greased pig!" I think Marrone's going to be a very involved, hands-on HC (check out that picture of him playing center in the recent OTA--can't picture Chan or any Bills HC ever doing that!!). He probably will "see all and know all" about these rookies, rather than doing the delegation / guy-in-the-tower routine. Hence, the addition of checkered past guys we haven't seen in quite a while around here. Maybe also why the league is gravitating toward college HCs more than the old school 'treat them like men' guys like Marv... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 I think Marrone's going to be a very involved, hands-on HC (check out that picture of him playing center in the recent OTA--can't picture Chan or any Bills HC ever doing that!!). He probably will "see all and know all" about these rookies, rather than doing the delegation / guy-in-the-tower routine. Hence, the addition of checkered past guys we haven't seen in quite a while around here. Maybe also why the league is gravitating toward college HCs more than the old school 'treat them like men' guys like Marv... He was great on the post draft interview. He wants to get with the O linemen soon and start teaching them himself what he wants out of them like a position coach would. He has a confidence and arrogance about himself as a teacher that I kind of like. It doesn't come off as the Greggo style but we don't know yet. Greggo came in with a reputation for bluster and over-confidence. Marrone came in with everyone seeming to like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialK15 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Influx of talent on the offensive side of the ball, yes, definitely. What really gets me excited is the new approach to the offense and adding players that can produce within the system. Marrone and Hackett want to bring speed and pace to the offense - so we go out and draft speed and pace guys. Everyone evaluating our draft class is eyeing Manuel. If he can come in, win the starting job and run the offense efficiently, the offense will put up points and silence the critics. I'd be fine sitting him for a year to learn like Kaepernick, but he was drafted in the 1st rd to be the franchise guy and should play. These rooks will be a reflection of how good Hacketts system really will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Greggo came in with a reputation for bluster and over-confidence. Marrone came in with everyone seeming to like him. Man Boobs never played the game, which gives Marrone a whole different level of 'buy in' from the kids and the millionaires... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Nelson may nit have brought speed but he could move the chains on third down and in the NFL of today, that's kind of important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Strangley I remember last year when people proclaimed we had the best young corner duo in the league with Aaron Williams and Stephen Gilmour. How'd that turn out? I don't remember that to be the case. I remember people here were very disappointed in Aaron Williams' play and were wondering if he was a draft mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) If Rogers can keep his act together here, the Bills will have the best WR corp in the NFL within 3 years, mark my words... Edited April 28, 2013 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 As long as Rogers can keep his act together here, we have some serious, serious talent at WR...Rogers is likely the most talented of them all...dude has a chance to basically be Terrell Owens in the NFL... Within 3 years, the Bills will have the best WR corp in the NFL...bank on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Obviously it's collaborative but I don't think marrone evaluated 300+ guys and had a board either. They collaborated on weighted skillsets and positions, and our scouting staff created rankings. Marrone might've had pick between a handful of guys lined up by the scouting staff but generally our scouts and GM still have jobs for a reason. I don't think our process was somehow different than the wide majority of war rooms. My guess, nix had final say still 100% but that they were obviously working towards a common goal For example someone mentioned marrone giving nix his breakdown for the 90 man roster and nix was free to fill the spots to get to those desired counts. The GM is the boss but the two sides really work for each other when effectively functioning. Maybe, but I can't imagine Buddy crossing Marrone on a single pick. It's inconceivable. I don't think Buddy, of all GMs this year, "was free to fill the spots". I'm betting Boss Russ made sure of this. I don't remember that to be the case. I remember people here were very disappointed in Aaron Williams' play and were wondering if he was a draft mistake. I believe he meant prior to the season starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBUffalo Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Bold... likely ludicrous. There's no clear-cut number one receiver on the roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) Bold... likely ludicrous. There's no clear-cut number one receiver on the roster. Johnson is a number 1, Woods and Rogers both have the talent to be number 1s...that's why I said within 3 years, not as of today... Edited April 28, 2013 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Bold... likely ludicrous. There's no clear-cut number one receiver on the roster. Bold, yes. I don't know about ludicrous though. Stevie and Woods alone make a pretty darn good receiving tandem on their own. Rodgers has the potential, if he keeps his head on straight, to be an ELITE WR...better than both Stevie and Woods. To say "best WR in 3 years" may be a pretty big leap of faith, but I honestly think the potential is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Maybe, but I can't imagine Buddy crossing Marrone on a single pick. It's inconceivable. I don't think Buddy, of all GMs this year, "was free to fill the spots". I'm betting Boss Russ made sure of this. Maybe the proof in this is 2 Pac12 pics with one of them by some peoples evaluation being a character risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Appreciate the enthusiasm. Let's let them catch their 1st pass though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) As long as Rogers can keep his act together here, we have some serious, serious talent at WR...Rogers is likely the most talented of them all...dude has a chance to basically be Terrell Owens in the NFL... Within 3 years, the Bills will have the best WR corp in the NFL...bank on it. Bolded, Italicized, and Underlined one hell of a big IF!!!! I'm glad they took the chance on him - just as I am glad they took a chance on Manuel for his upside - but I'm definitely NOT going to BANK on it. Edited April 28, 2013 by BobChalmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAWNDO Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Time will tell. It certainly is an upgrade from last year's receiving corp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 As long as they turn out to be best three in the league, this may be an accurate prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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