Bill Polian's top 4 qualities in a franchise QB

[Solomon Grundy]

1) Arm Strength

2) Accuracy

3) Ability to process information

4) Clutch performer

 

Which QB in this draft possess all or many of these qualities?

[The Big Cat]

1) Arm Strength

2) Accuracy

3) Ability to process information

4) Clutch performer

 

Which QB in this draft possess all or many of these qualities?

 

EJM

[Bangarang]

Nassib

 

He also doesn't wear sleeves regardless of how cold it is. Kid was government engineered to play for the Bills.

[Kelly the Dog]

None of them really have shown to be clutch performers, despite things like Manuel winning his bowl games.

 

I hate to say this, but Ryan Nassib probably has the most of all of those players if the four criterion were given equal credence.

[Stenbar]

According to that segment where you received your information Landry Jones is the closest to his requirements..Ill go with Mr. Polian and his selection of qbs over anyone else......

[Dr. Trooth]

#3 on the list is hands down and over the top in Nassib's favor... and it ain't close for 2nd place.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Dr. Trooth

[Kelly the Dog]

#3 on the list is hands down and over the top in Nassib's favor... and it ain't close for 2nd place.

Barkley is very highly regarded in that part of his game. You're letting your bias get away with you saying it ain't close.

[Solomon Grundy]

 

 

EJM

 

Gruden was concerned with his "ball security"

[CarolinaBill]

Tyler Wilson

[JPS]

E. AJ McCarron

 

Seriously, I dunno that any of the available QBs nail all 4.

[boyst]

Nassib

 

He also doesn't wear sleeves regardless of how cold it is. Kid was government engineered to play for the Bills.

except that he played in a dome in college...

 

Gruden was concerned with his "ball security"

Yeah, did you see that? I actually had ESPN on for that segment. I was laughing my arse off, because he does have a point but he hammered away at something so small it was boring. Instead of working on the other issues he has in his game he stuck on something any peewee football player could have told him was an error. Gruden is a douchenozzle.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

EJM

 

EJ Manuel is no where near a clutch performer. Manuel also has question on processing information.

 

Nassib is probably the closest to getting all 4 of all the QB's. EVeryone else has 2 out of 4.

Edited April 17, 2013 by TheTruthHurts

[K-9]

Are those in his order of importance because he always stressed accuracy as his number one quality in a QB, followed by smarts to process information quickly. I can't see him making arm strength most important when he was always so adamant about accuracy and smarts.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Passepartout]

It is about being clutch and winning when it comes down to it. Plus making split second decisions!

[KOKBILLS]

Gruden was concerned with his "ball security"

 

Honestly...Not to say that Gruden was incorrect...But that is an easily correctable "fault" in EJ's game...That's very coach-able...

[....lybob]

The reason we are arguing over 3 or 4 QBs is because there are no obvious franchise QBs in this draft and our desperate need for said franchise QB changes none of these pig ears into a silk purse

[Dr. Trooth]

 

Barkley is very highly regarded in that part of his game. You're letting your bias get away with you saying it ain't close.

 

Go back to the tapes for yourself... Barkley holds onto it longer... he's still processing... and when the ball comes out, Nassibs release is more compact and quicker.

[Kelly the Dog]

Go back to the tapes for yourself... Barkley holds onto it longer... he's still processing... and when the ball comes out, Nassibs release is more compact and quicker.

I live in LA and have seen him a ton. I don't want the Bills to draft him at all. But that is one of the strengths of his game. The compact release has little to processing information. It's important, and a great strength of Nassib's. But it's a different category of skill.

[KeisterHollow]

I saw the episode - and it wasn't arm strength overall - like a cannon of an arm - but that first and foremost the QB had to be capable of making all the throws an NFL QB would need to make. Then it was accuracy, then processing info quickly, and finally clutch play.

 

Yeah, I was really disappointed that Jaworski and Pollian both had Barkley pretty far down on their lists. Pollian had Jones as his number 1 QB, then Nassib. That was a real shocker - although, considering Jones's records and history, I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone by the middle of the 3rd round. They both had Nassib as their 2nd QB, I believe. Nassib appears to be getting the most consistent props of any of these QB's. I'm amazed - I've been all in on Barkley. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm wrong. I can't help seeing what I see, and I just believe Barkley is the guy, but at this point, I'll be happy if the Bills end up with Nassib, Barkley, Wilson, or Smith - even Manuel.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I saw the episode - and it wasn't arm strength overall - like a cannon of an arm - but that first and foremost the QB had to be capable of making all the throws an NFL QB would need to make. Then it was accuracy, then processing info quickly, and finally clutch play.

 

Yeah, I was really disappointed that Jaworski and Pollian both had Barkley pretty far down on their lists. Pollian had Jones as his number 1 QB, then Nassib. That was a real shocker - although, considering Jones's records and history, I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone by the middle of the 3rd round. They both had Nassib as their 2nd QB, I believe. Nassib appears to be getting the most consistent props of any of these QB's. I'm amazed - I've been all in on Barkley. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm wrong. I can't help seeing what I see, and I just believe Barkley is the guy, but at this point, I'll be happy if the Bills end up with Nassib, Barkley, Wilson, or Smith - even Manuel.

 

I know arm strength can be overrated in importance but I don't think I've ever seen a QB with a weaker arm than Matt Barkley with the possible exception of Chad Pennington.

 

His arm is weaker than Matt Cassel's, Fitz', Orton's, McCoy's, anyone's. It's screamingly obvious AFAIC.

 

All you have to do is watch the video and it jumps off the screen… and I intentionally only watched his games from 2011 when he was completely healthy and had a great season.

[eme123]

Geno

1) Amazing!!

2)Terrible

3)Questionable

4)Not

Good- Baylor & Oklahoma

Bad- @Texas(Sack fumble nearly gives away the game. WV runs ball 5 straight times to seal the win),

TCU(Geno silent in fourth, Austin punt return sends game to O.T., Geno TD in 2nd OT but Loss

@Iowa State (75yd screen pass to Austin wins game w/ 7min to go)

Nassib

1) Good

2) Good

3) Great

4) Great ex. @Missouri, @South Florida, Pittsburgh (Not pretty, did alot with his feet), @Minnesota (L), Northwestern (L)

Edited April 18, 2013 by eme123

[Kellyto83TD]

Nassib by a long shot over the rest in this class AND he knows to a great extent our offense already. At this point I just can't see how he isn't the pic at #8

[BuffaloBill]

Nassib by a long shot over the rest in this class AND he knows to a great extent our offense already. At this point I just can't see how he isn't the pic at #8

 

It would seem this is where Bufalo is headed. At least the Bills know exactly what they are getting.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I have to say that I don't know much about Nassib, but I think it is extremely likely that he is the pick...regardless of where we end up picking in the first round.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

except that he played in a dome in college...

 

 

Yeah, did you see that? I actually had ESPN on for that segment. I was laughing my arse off, because he does have a point but he hammered away at something so small it was boring. Instead of working on the other issues he has in his game he stuck on something any peewee football player could have told him was an error. Gruden is a douchenozzle.

 

He's an entertainer, that's all. Gruden went on and on to Nassib about a nastly looking bare-legged slide he put down. Watch the QB squirm a bit under razzing, entertain the masses

[Orton's Arm]

I know arm strength can be overrated in importance but I don't think I've ever seen a QB with a weaker arm than Matt Barkley with the possible exception of Chad Pennington.

 

His arm is weaker than Matt Cassel's, Fitz', Orton's, McCoy's, anyone's. It's screamingly obvious AFAIC.

 

All you have to do is watch the video and it jumps off the screen… and I intentionally only watched his games from 2011 when he was completely healthy and had a great season.

 

I've been very pro-Barkley. But I'm deeply concerned with what you've had to say about his arm strength. If you're right, then that would make me lean more toward a guy like Nassib, or perhaps waiting until the 2014 draft to take a QB.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Nassib

 

He also doesn't wear sleeves regardless of how cold it is. Kid was government engineered to play for the Bills.

 

Govt engineered implies he'll be way too costly, never be able to make a decision, and while he'll meet the spec, he'll fail miserably at making any progress towards any franchise improvement while spiraling the whole organization into crippling debt, while arguing with teammates and lying to fans. Sound about right?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I've been very pro-Barkley. But I'm deeply concerned with what you've had to say about his arm strength. If you're right, then that would make me lean more toward a guy like Nassib, or perhaps waiting until the 2014 draft to take a QB.

 

JMO, EA.

 

Have you watched his videos?

 

His lack of arm strength is startling to me but I'm certainly open to hearing other's thoughts on it. Like I said I viewed pretty much every game he played in 2011, which was his big season.

 

Here are all his videos:

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/players/matt-barkley

 

These are the same people who pointed out that over 50% of Barkley's throws traveled no farther than 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage and that nearly 25% of his throws were actually thrown to receivers behind the line of scrimmage.

[reddogblitz]

His lack of arm strength is startling to me but I'm certainly open to hearing other's thoughts on it.

 

I don't necessarily have another opinion because I haven't seen any of these guys play very much. But I am curious. What exactly do you see in the vids that makes you think his arm strength is bad?

 

I just watched the Washington 2011 vid. He does throw a lot of short passes. But he did throw one completion that traveled 44 yards in the air.

 

Govt engineered implies he'll be way too costly, never be able to make a decision, and while he'll meet the spec, he'll fail miserably at making any progress towards any franchise improvement while spiraling the whole organization into crippling debt, while arguing with teammates and lying to fans. Sound about right?

 

Maybe that's our problem. We've been playing with Govt engineered QBs the last 15 or so years.

Edited April 18, 2013 by reddogblitz

[kickedface]

nassib does seem to fit, and i really do think that polian knows qbs. i didn't have him ranked that high, i was thinking smith but it does put a different perspective on what to look for in a qb

[Orton's Arm]

JMO, EA.

 

Have you watched his videos?

 

His lack of arm strength is startling to me but I'm certainly open to hearing other's thoughts on it. Like I said I viewed pretty much every game he played in 2011, which was his big season.

 

Here are all his videos:

 

http://draftbreakdow...rs/matt-barkley

 

These are the same people who pointed out that over 50% of Barkley's throws traveled no farther than 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage and that nearly 25% of his throws were actually thrown to receivers behind the line of scrimmage.

 

Thanks for the link to the videos. I just watched Barkley's game against Stanford in 2011. The thing which stood out to me in that game was the lack of pass protection! He almost never had a clean pocket to step into. Most of his throws were short--but there was almost always at least one defender applying pass pressure when he threw the ball.

 

I'm not saying the pass protection was a complete failure. I don't recall any cases in which a defender rushed untouched to the quarterback. The OL gave him a little time--but not much time at all! Under the circumstances, he looked to me like a quarterback responding appropriately to a lack of pass protection. I saw few if any wasted opportunities for him to wait for deeper throws to open up. Had he waited much longer on just about any of those plays, they would have resulted in sacks. As it was, I don't recall him taking any sacks, despite the fact his OL was greatly over-matched.

 

I saw a small number of intermediate throws in that game. It didn't look like he had much chance to step into those throws, due to an abundance of defensive pressure on the quarterback. Most of his intermediate throws looked very accurate.

 

I didn't see any deep throws. But neither did I see a single legitimate opportunity for him to throw deep. Not one! His OL was getting dominated that badly. That game didn't allow me to conclude anything--either positive or negative--about his arm strength.

[Dr. Trooth]

Thanks for the link to the videos. I just watched Barkley's game against Stanford in 2011. The thing which stood out to me in that game was the lack of pass protection! He almost never had a clean pocket to step into. Most of his throws were short--but there was almost always at least one defender applying pass pressure when he threw the ball.

 

I'm not saying the pass protection was a complete failure. I don't recall any cases in which a defender rushed untouched to the quarterback. The OL gave him a little time--but not much time at all! Under the circumstances, he looked to me like a quarterback responding appropriately to a lack of pass protection. I saw few if any wasted opportunities for him to wait for deeper throws to open up. Had he waited much longer on just about any of those plays, they would have resulted in sacks. As it was, I don't recall him taking any sacks, despite the fact his OL was greatly over-matched.

 

I saw a small number of intermediate throws in that game. It didn't look like he had much chance to step into those throws, due to an abundance of defensive pressure on the quarterback. Most of his intermediate throws looked very accurate.

 

I didn't see any deep throws. But neither did I see a single legitimate opportunity for him to throw deep. Not one! His OL was getting dominated that badly. That game didn't allow me to conclude anything--either positive or negative--about his arm strength.

 

First of all... 2011 isn't exactly "what have you done for me lately". Even Buddy said they go on the current season and if there are reasons to look back further, sometimes they do. Secondly, USC routinely sends one or two Offensive linemen to the pros every year... usually in the first 3 rounds. Barkely has absoulutuely no excuse as far as supporting cast. USC recruits 4 and 5 star guys like they grow on trees. As far as the top 5 or 6 QBs in this draft, anyone playing at USC, Florida State, Tennessee or Arkansas have A list players with pedigrees all over the place. If they don't look good, it's their own fault. And, if they do, you have to question is it them or the supporting cast?

[ColdBlueNorth]

except that he played in a dome in college...

 

 

Yeah, did you see that? I actually had ESPN on for that segment. I was laughing my arse off, because he does have a point but he hammered away at something so small it was boring. Instead of working on the other issues he has in his game he stuck on something any peewee football player could have told him was an error. Gruden is a douchenozzle.

 

Chucky can go a bit over the top, but I am sure he is reminded that he has to be entertaining. Sometimes he does pull off that interview feel with the players he brings in and you get to see how they respond to that kind of pressure and criticism.

 

I watched his review with Zac Dysert and I felt sorry for the kid. First Gruden said that he had all the tools you look for in an NFL QB arm, accuracy, touch, including the ability to make plays on the run (avoiding the rush) then put him on the spot with how many sacks he has taken. Anyone that watched any of the Miami Ohio games knows that they had probably the worst O-Line and receivers in NCAA football and I could not help but think that Gruden was trying to see if Dysert would throw them under the bus.

 

Dysert said that they had changed offenses often, and had young players on the O-Line, Gruden quickly dismissed those as excuses and pushed him some more. As one would expect from a kid who was voted team captain 3 years running he said ultimately it was his fault if he held onto the ball and took a sack.

 

Really good character kid and tough as nails - I am sure he will get picked up. If he does not get picked up by the Bills (I think that they are targeting Tyler Bray mainly because Buddy focuses on the SEC, Bray has arguably the best overall tool set of that group of QBs and the argument could be made that the defenses a QB faces in the SEC have featured some of the best players and competition for years - thinking of the SEC and its history as an NFL draft factory: LSU, Georgia, Florida, Tennesee, and Bama have many if not the most players drafted into the NFL... Buddy focusing on those schools is an understandable scouting strategy)

 

Either way, I still think I will keep tabs on how he does in the league.

Edited April 18, 2013 by ColdBlueNorth

[Orton's Arm]

First of all... 2011 isn't exactly "what have you done for me lately". Even Buddy said they go on the current season and if there are reasons to look back further, sometimes they do. Secondly, USC routinely sends one or two Offensive linemen to the pros every year... usually in the first 3 rounds. Barkely has absoulutuely no excuse as far as supporting cast. USC recruits 4 and 5 star guys like they grow on trees. As far as the top 5 or 6 QBs in this draft, anyone playing at USC, Florida State, Tennessee or Arkansas have A list players with pedigrees all over the place. If they don't look good, it's their own fault. And, if they do, you have to question is it them or the supporting cast?

 

> First of all... 2011 isn't exactly "what have you done for me lately".

 

Perhaps not. But this discussion is about arm strength, and I doubt Barkley's arm is weaker now than it was in 2011. (Unless he's recovering from an injury.) I also doubt he's become less accurate or worse at making decisions now than he was then. The reason you want to draft a multi-year starter is because that guy can give you a large sample size of his work. Not because an accurate throw in 2011 is somehow less indicative of accuracy than an accurate throw in 2012.

 

> Secondly, USC routinely sends one or two Offensive linemen to the pros every year... usually in the first 3 rounds.

 

When I watched the game, I was focusing on Barkley, not on individual offensive linemen. Maybe there were one or two guys on that line who dominated their respective man. But the line as a whole was consistently dominated by Stanford from the very first snap.

 

> Barkely has absoulutuely no excuse as far as supporting cast.

 

Others disagree with you, and have made the case that Barkley's supporting cast in 2012 was consistently dominated by its opponents. (Especially his OL.) One of the reasons for watching the 2011 games instead was because that's when his OL still had some semblance of credibility. But not as much of a semblance as I would have liked--at least not in the Stanford game.

 

> If they don't look good, it's their own fault. And, if they do, you have to question is it them or the supporting cast?

 

That's a very pessimistic view. To me, it looked like Barkley was making good, fast decisions to cause the offense to be productive despite a lack of pass protection. Also, most of his throws looked accurate--often very accurate. Stanford's DBs didn't look over-matched against USC's WRs. On the other hand, Stanford's pass rush was so good that the DBs didn't have to stay in coverage very long at all.

[K-9]

Not sure who posted it earlier in the thread, but thanks for the clarification on what Polian means about arm strength. All talent evaluators need to see the far out from the far hash on time from 5 and 7 step drops. If a QB doesn't have the arm strength for that, it's a non-starter. Period. If Polian rated arm-strength as the more important attribute above accuracy and decision making, he would have drafted Leaf over Manning.

 

Barkley's situation is complicated because of the shoulder surgery he underwent to repair the separation. If he's lost even a little from what he had, it could be a concern going forward. Everything else about the kid is what you'd like, though.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[garchat80]

Manning was clutch at UT?

[Fisher Bills]

HAHAHAHA its funny that everyone in here knows how each player processes infomation like they have spent years implementing playbooks with each qb.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Anyways EA, I've said about Barkley on several occasions that his ball placement and accuracy is good, his timing is good, his understanding of the offense is good, everything is good,

 

except his arm strength.

 

Some people think it's a minor point.

 

I'm not one of those people.

 

As I said earlier, I can't think of an NFL QB with such a weak arm having any kind of decent career except for Chad Pennington.

 

Yeah Montana had a weak arm but that was 20 years ago.

 

I could be wrong about Barkley like I've been wrong about many players. We'll see.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Nassib

 

He also doesn't wear sleeves regardless of how cold it is. Kid was government engineered to play for the Bills.

Not too cold in the DOME ?

[SWVABillsFan]

I think arm strength as well as accuracy are equally important. When they say making NFL throws that includes from sideline to sideline which is about 50 yards. The question is how often does that happen? If a QB scrambles out of the pocket he is usually looking in front of him or to the side of the field. What is short range, med range, long range? If a guy can throw 40 yards in a west coast offense that should be sufficient. How fast he can get it out is important because it shows ability to read and agility. From the video I have watched on Nassib he has all these traits, or at least well enough to make it at the next level. I just have 1 more question, what # will he wear at the next level if he becomes a Buffalo Bill?