Petition - FIRE RUSS BRANDON NOW!!!

[hondo in seattle]

Per the news releases, the Bills make more than double their usual take for each game in Toronto.

 

Think about it this way... if a potential new owner who sees this contract in place, what does this do to the odds he will move the Bills out of Buffalo?

 

As much as you may hate the Toronto series, it may be one of the brightest spots keeping the team from moving out of town. Add in the new stadium lease and you begin to realize that a certain 94-yr old owner is actually doing a great deal to keep Buffalo from losing their team.

 

This is a good thought. The Bills have signed a stadium lease and now a contract with Toronto. Both these inked agreements make it more difficult for a new owner to relocate the franchise.

 

I'm hoping we have a 10 year deal with St. John Fisher with a $10 million opt out clause. The more signed deals tying us to the region, the better.

[May Day 10]

the terms of the Toronto deal may not make it any more difficult. We just dont know yet (and may (hopefully) never know).

 

it could just as easily have a 'right of first refusal' clause on the purchase of the team and the $ up front is a down payment.

 

Maybe Ralph's estate gives back a prorated amount.

Edited January 29, 2013 by May Day 10

[Thisistheyear]

The hatred for the Toronto series is infantile. It provides much needed revenue and exposure to a gigantic market. If you're not smart enough or too thin skinned to understand that, please just let it go.

Also, petitions are super gay.

[McBeane]

The hatred for the Toronto series is infantile. It provides much needed revenue and exposure to a gigantic market. If you're not smart enough or too thin skinned to understand that, please just let it go.

Also, petitions are super gay.

 

Do you want to start up a petition with me to end all petitions?

[SlamnSam]

Please add me to fire the fool list.

[FLFan]

This is the way it is. Todays announcement should be no surprise. It sucks, but it is going to continue on this path and people just need to get over it. If the Toronto series helps stabilize the revenues and keep the team in Buffalo with Ralph's passing then it is a good thing. Buffalo is a small market and shrinking, not growing. Exapanding beyond Buffalo to gain additional revenues is smart business, and good for the future of the team.

[Keukasmallies]

Ya gotta stop thinking about the Bills as a product that needs to win to succeed; not the case, as demonstrated by profit/loss sheets. The Bills simply need to "be" to make $; on field results are not a first tier criteria for success.

[VABills]

The team makes money and they don't even sell out half of the seven home games they have. People when you buy all the tickets for those seven then you have a reason to complain. Right now the team has to stay financially viable.

[apuszczalowski]

they are a profitable team, giving up the competitive edge that the ralph affords them is inexcusable. it is a money grab, all the nonsense of expanding the fan base rings hollow when you look at pittsburgh, green bay.. just win, raise the prices at the ralph , whatever.. if that is not enough, sell the freakin team!

Green Bay, the team that did this exact same thing for decades?

THE TEAM IS ONLY PROFITABLE BECAUSE RALPH HAS ZERO DEBT ON THIS TEAM WHICH A NEW OWNER WILL NOT HAVE THE LUXURY OF

 

The team loses at the Ralph just the same as it loses everywhere else. Over the last 6 seasons (since the 2007 season) they have yet to win 20 games total at RWS, explain to me again how losing one game a year is going to hurt this team winning?

 

IF YOU DON"T WANT THE BILLS TO LOSE A HOME GAME PLAYING IN AN ENVIRONMENT THAT WILL BE MORE LIKE AN AWAY GAME (OR DOESN'T HAVE THE RWS ATMOSPHERE) MAKE THE 90 MINUTE DRIVE TO TORONTO AND CHEER FOR THE TEAM

 

the Sabres lose money. The owner doesnt care. He wants to win. As a result, they are able to raise prices and people are spending more. With a more favorable CBA, they might make money. The team markets better in print, on TV, and amongst the NHLPA.

 

Then you have Russ Brandon who during his self promoting P.C. borrowed the same exact lines that Pegula used when he bought the team. It is all B.S.

 

It is also nearly impossible to lose money in the NFL

The Sabres are also an asset that was purchased for around $200 million dollars INCLUDING the arena that they play in.

The Bills are a team that is valued at around 4x's that amount without the stadium, and are currently owned by someone who has zero debt on the team therefore everything they bring in is profit.

Theres a big difference here.

[BillnutinHouston]

There are simply so many other ways to bring fans and corporate support to the team from Toronto, like possibly SELL naming rights to a toronto based business? SELL luxury suites and packages to toronto based businesses? SELL advertising to toronto based businesses? SELL tickets and travel packages to toronto residents?

 

Think the team's long term survival in Buffalo is the reason for this abomination? Then why is the City's name not present in the promotional material?

 

OP: See, here's where you lost me.

 

In terms of operting a profitable NFL franchise, naming rights are a drop in the bucket and make no appreciable difference.

 

Selling luxury suites/boxes, advertising, and travel/ticket packages to Toronto businesses and customers - do you not think they have tried? Really?

 

On the point about the Toronto series being important to the long term viability of the Bills in Buffalo, think about this strictly in terms of a) market share and b) a prospective new ownership group. If a group is willing to consider keeping the team in Buffalo, MIGHT it be advantageous to show that the Bills can be marketed to Southern Ontario, or is it better to just ignore that market segment? If possible, stop thinking as a fan (with your heart), and start thinking as a prospective new owner of the team. Brandon is trying to make lemonade out of the lemons in terms of positioning the team optimally and MAKING IT AS ATTRACTIVE AS POSSIBLE FOR THE NEXT OWNER TO KEEP THE TEAM IN BUFFALO.

[BillnutinHouston]

Yeah, I'm sure if they didn't sell their annual game to Toronto, the team would fold. Give me a break.

 

Read my post - it's about the NEXT owner.

[Adam]

This looks insane to me.

[May Day 10]

Read my post - it's about the NEXT owner.

 

If Ralph sells the team, say next Summer, and he was already paid out, and they lose 4 home games over the following 4 years to Toronto, doesnt that make the team less appealing?

 

 

 

Edit: Wouldnt be surprised to see Rogers take a light buy-out since their aspirations for the Toronto NFL team would be done at that point.

Edited January 29, 2013 by May Day 10

[BillnutinHouston]

As much as you may hate the Toronto series, it may be one of the brightest spots keeping the team from moving out of town. Add in the new stadium lease and you begin to realize that a certain 94-yr old owner is actually doing a great deal to keep Buffalo from losing their team.

 

^^ Someone gets it.

 

So I guess that it has not been overly publicizied, but the new toronto series will call for 2 games, YES 2 games played in Rogers center each year, and that's somehow GOOD for Buffalo?

 

Care to revise your statement, counsellor?

Edited January 29, 2013 by BillnutinHouston

[davspo]

Look at the up side- one less good awful, poorly coached, uninspired game we have to sit though at the Ralph!

[Captain Hindsight]

Bills winning percentage in Toronto 20% 1/4

 

Bills winning percentage out of Toronto 32% 24/75

 

They suck either way.

[BuffBill]

I agree with you. He continually sells out games for a team that has not been to the playoffs in 13 years. Taking our your frustration on someone who has nothing to do w/ the poor quality of play over the past 13 years while trying to increase the fanbase in a shrinking city that is on economical hard times is absurd. We need the Toronto money, and the move that Brandon has made to get more fans from Rochester and CNY (which is largely lost on the anti-Brandon crowd). We need to regionalism, that is the TRUTH. You may not like it, you may wish that the economy and population of Buffalo was not shrinking, but they are. Fact is, if it weren't for Brandon recognizing this, this team would have no hope for a future in Buffalo.

 

 

 

Without the efforts to reach out to the CA fan-base, the Canadians would not come to the Ralph.

 

 

 

A well-though out response! I'd rather send Brandon a thank you card for his efforts than sign this poorly though out petition.

I would like to see a study done, because Canadians have been coming to Bills games for decades before this money grab series ever started. Also, it is possible that alot of Canadians won't make their annual trip to Orchard Park now, because they bring this disaster of a team to them?

[ChuTheFat]

It's not a "money grab". It's a "revenue stream". If you insist on thinking of it as a "money-grab" then technically every single game (home/away/other) should also be classified as a "money-grab" because all of them pull in cash for the purpose of running the operation and generating profit. All those player jersey's and other paraphernalia would also be nothing but a "money-grab" as well. Generally, most people just call it "capitalism".

 

A 94-yr old owner signs a stadium deal that anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together should be able to see will last longer than the owner himself. A 5-yr Toronto series deal? Really? Who's laying odds on good ol' Ralph still being around by the end of that contract?

 

Any potential new owner looking at the Bills will see 2 things... 1) long-term stadium deal already in place (no moving the team), and 2) a lucrative revenue stream coming out of Toronto that will double the income over at least one home game each year. Move the team and the Toronto series goes "poof" along with the lucrative revenue stream.

 

Note to fans: Ralph has just about guaranteed the team will be around longer than he will. Permanently? No, but at least not walking away from the city in the middle of the night like the Irsay's did to Baltimore.

[BuffBill]

It's not a "money grab". It's a "revenue stream". If you insist on thinking of it as a "money-grab" then technically every single game (home/away/other) should also be classified as a "money-grab" because all of them pull in cash for the purpose of running the operation and generating profit. All those player jersey's and other paraphernalia would also be nothing but a "money-grab" as well. Generally, most people just call it "capitalism".

 

A 94-yr old owner signs a stadium deal that anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together should be able to see will last longer than the owner himself. A 5-yr Toronto series deal? Really? Who's laying odds on good ol' Ralph still being around by the end of that contract?

 

Any potential new owner looking at the Bills will see 2 things... 1) long-term stadium deal already in place (no moving the team), and 2) a lucrative revenue stream coming out of Toronto that will double the income over at least one home game each year. Move the team and the Toronto series goes "poof" along with the lucrative revenue stream.

 

Note to fans: Ralph has just about guaranteed the team will be around longer than he will. Permanently? No, but at least not walking away from the city in the middle of the night like the Irsay's did to Baltimore.

The difference is, it is a money grab when you put your team at a disadvantage that no other team has on an annual basis for the sake of money. That my friend is a money grab. Plain and simple.

[Peter]

Why would anyone want to get rid of Russ. He is well respected around the NFL, is a good at the business side, and (most importantly for me) is an upstate guy who genuinely wants and is doing what he can do to keep the Bills where they belong -- in Buffalo.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

YAWN - y'all are still discussing this silly issue?

 

PROFIT. That's the bottom line. Having the Bills play there is $11 Million in profit to Ralph. ZERO expenditures.

Edited January 30, 2013 by BillsFan-4-Ever

[RkFast]

The difference is, it is a money grab when you put your team at a disadvantage that no other team has on an annual basis for the sake of money. That my friend is a money grab. Plain and simple.

 

Pure opinion...plain and simple...

 

Some FACTS, please.....pulled from Wiki....

 

The National Football League's Green Bay Packers played two or three home games per year at Milwaukee County Stadium from 1953 to 1994, after using Wisconsin State Fair Park in nearby West Allis and also Marquette Stadium. The Packers compiled a 76–47–3 (.617) mark in 126 regular-season County Stadium contests over 42 seasons. County Stadium hosted at least one pre-season game annually during this time as well (except 1983), including the Upper Midwest Shrine Game. Financial considerations prompted the Packers to move some of their games to Milwaukee starting with the 1933 season. However, by 1995, multiple renovations to Lambeau Field made it more lucrative for the Packers to play their full home slate in Green Bay again for the first time since 1932.^[30] Former Milwaukee ticket holders were offered tickets at Lambeau to one pre-season game and games 2 and 5 of the regular season schedule, in what is referred to as the "Gold package."

 

 

The Minnesota Vikings (15 times) were the Packers' most frequent foe at County Stadium, as the Packers would traditionally host at least one divisional rival from the NFC Central in Milwaukee each season. Only once, however, did the Packers play their ancient arch-rivals, the Chicago Bears, in Milwaukee, defeating the Bears 20–3 in 1974. On November 26, 1989, a County Stadium record crowd of 55,892 saw the Packers beat the Vikings, 20–19.^[31] The Packers' final game at County Stadium was a 21–17 victory over the Atlanta Falcons on December 18, 1994; with fourteen seconds left, the winning 9-yard touchdown run was scored by quarterback Brett Favre. Coincidentally, Atlanta was Favre's first NFL address in 1991, and the city to which the baseball Braves moved almost three decades earlier.

 

The Packers also hosted one NFL playoff game at County Stadium, the December 23, 1967 Western Conference Championship against the Los Angeles Rams.^[32] By beating the Rams 28–7, the Packers would face the Dallas Cowboys in the famed Ice Bowl at Lambeau 8 days later.

Edited January 30, 2013 by RkFast

[apuszczalowski]

The difference is, it is a money grab when you put your team at a disadvantage that no other team has on an annual basis for the sake of money. That my friend is a money grab. Plain and simple.

Except for the packers, for decades, or the jaguars are doing by moving a home game accross the ocean?

And whos putting the team at a disadvantage? Is it there stellar home record where they are unbeaten at RWS? as I said before if the fans don't want the team to be at a disadvantage playing only 90 minutes from RWS, Go to the game and make some noise. If you refuse to do that and would rather just throw a tantrum and demand that Russ be fired for trying to help keep the team viable and make money in Buffalo, your just as much of the problem

[BillnutinHouston]

The difference is, it is a money grab when you put your team at a disadvantage that no other team has on an annual basis for the sake of money. That my friend is a money grab. Plain and simple.

 

Since you're so down on the Toronto series, apparently you're wagering on another Buffalo-loving Terry Pegula-type outbidding everyone else, buying the Bills and keeping them here. I, on the other hand, think it's smart to prepare for the winning bidder to be a group of shrewd investors who are only looking to maximize the return on their investments. Your plan to keep the team in Buffalo is a pretty big gamble IMO. I'm not feeling as lucky as you apparently do.

 

Explain why the average investor would bother to keep the Bills in Buffalo if it hasn't tried to cultivate the Toronto market?

Edited January 30, 2013 by BillnutinHouston

[thewildrabbit]

No offense, but this thread is a waste of time as nothing will change until ownership changes.

 

Ralph Wilson has his man trained to a tee, money first, and wins...if they happen to win all the better.. if not, C'est la vie.

[RkFast]

No offense, but this thread is a waste of time as nothing will change until ownership changes.

 

Ralph Wilson has his man trained to a tee, money first, and wins...if they happen to win all the better.. if not, C'est la vie.

 

Yeah.....good luck finding an ownership group looking to shell out a billion dollars for an NFL team and then run it as a non-profit.

Edited January 30, 2013 by RkFast

[Homey D. Clown]

Yeah.....good luck finding an ownership group looking to shell out a billion dollars for an NFL team and then run it as a non-profit.

 

The team is more than profitable without the moronic toronto series, plain and simple, but like most go ahead and continue to kid yourself. If it was just additional revenue needed, then the "Genius"(laughable) Russ Brandon would have sold the stadium's naming rights for anywhere bewteen 6 and 10 million dollars a year. Yep, that's the league average, but the "Genius"(Still hard to even write sarcastically) Russ Brandon is too stupid to tap into that revenue which would exceed this idiotic series.

 

So why then are they robbing WNY of revenue and shipping a game off to Canada? Regionalization? Naahhh, only the simplest of minds could believe that, it's to butter up the franchise for an easy move out of town.

 

It has already been rumored that this new deal does not even bring in more money than if the games were to be played in Orchard Park, and the net loss for local businesses alone adds additional tax revenue losses to Erie county that if factored into the deal would be a net loss to the team, but lets not get too logical about this blasphemous "toronto series" Russ says "We need this to stay viable in WNY" What a joke.

 

FIRE RUSS BRANDON NOW!!!!

[VABills]

The team is more than profitable without the moronic toronto series, plain and simple, but like most go ahead and continue to kid yourself. If it was just additional revenue needed, then the "Genius"(laughable) Russ Brandon would have sold the stadium's naming rights for anywhere bewteen 6 and 10 million dollars a year. Yep, that's the league average, but the "Genius"(Still hard to even write sarcastically) Russ Brandon is too stupid to tap into that revenue which would exceed this idiotic series.

 

So why then are they robbing WNY of revenue and shipping a game off to Canada? Regionalization? Naahhh, only the simplest of minds could believe that, it's to butter up the franchise for an easy move out of town.

 

It has already been rumored that this new deal does not even bring in more money than if the games were to be played in Orchard Park, and the net loss for local businesses alone adds additional tax revenue losses to Erie county that if factored into the deal would be a net loss to the team, but lets not get too logical about this blasphemous "toronto series" Russ says "We need this to stay viable in WNY" What a joke.

 

FIRE RUSS BRANDON NOW!!!!

 

The naming rights don't belong to the Bills. It isn't their stadium. It's a county/state owned stadium.

[BuffBill]

The naming rights don't belong to the Bills. It isn't their stadium. It's a county/state owned stadium.

You are right they don't own the stadium, but I do believe as part of the lease they do own the rights to naming the stadium.

[VABills]

You are right they don't own the stadium, but I do believe as part of the lease they do own the rights to naming the stadium.

 

Nope, I think that went away with the last deal we had with Erie County. Hence the agreement to call it Ralph Wilson Stadium.

Edited January 31, 2013 by VABills

[jester43]

until Russ Brandon gets off his lazy a$$ and starts selling off MORE Bills home games, he's stealing Ralph's money as far as I'm concerned.

 

What idiot couldn't figure out that Bob Kraft would cough up $10million in a heartbeat to play the Bills twice every year in Foxboro. Jets too...they'd be happy to pony up that much to get us there a 2nd time...they'd make that back in parking and beer alone. You might have to lower the price a buck or two for the fish, but they are paying the man to MARKET the team, so cmon Russ, GET TA MARKETING!

 

Is this the optimal situation? Maybe not. But everyone knows Buffalo doesn't deserve a team anyway, so in order to keep the team VIABLE it will require the Bills to REGIONALIZE the entire east coast, creating the 1ST LARGEST MARKET IN THE NATION! Once this is accomplished, you can be sure the Bills will be in Buffalo forever. Once the job is done we'll have no more home games and the Bills future in buffalo will be secure. And think of what you'll save on season tickets!

 

You're deluded if you don't think this is 100% necessary to keep the Bills here. And remember, Russ GREW UP IN EAST SYRACUSE so obviously everything he says is true.

Edited January 31, 2013 by jester43

[RkFast]

The team is more than profitable without the moronic toronto series, plain and simple, but like most go ahead and continue to kid yourself.

 

Have you seen the books?

 

If it was just additional revenue needed, then the "Genius"(laughable) Russ Brandon would have sold the stadium's naming rights for anywhere bewteen 6 and 10 million dollars a year

 

How do you come up with this figure?

 

. Yep, that's the league average, but the "Genius"(Still hard to even write sarcastically) Russ Brandon is too stupid to tap into that revenue which would exceed this idiotic series.

How do you know he didnt try? And how do you know that revenue from naming rights would exceed revenue the Toronto series brought in?

 

, it's to butter up the franchise for an easy move out of town.

 

Opening up new local revenue streams locally is a ploy to help move the team away from those streams? Huh?

 

 

 

So why then are they robbing WNY of revenue and shipping a game off to Canada? Regionalization? Naahhh, only the simplest of minds could believe that

 

Bills season ticket subscruptions from CA are UP from 11% to 20% of total since the series started.

 

It has already been rumored that this new deal does not even bring in more money than if the games were to be played in Orchard Park

 

Theres also a "rumor" that Rob Johnson is coming back to the Bills. I read it!

 

, and the net loss for local businesses alone adds additional tax revenue losses to Erie county that if factored into the deal would be a net loss to the team,

 

Figures, please.

 

but lets not get too logical about this blasphemous "toronto series"

 

So "blasphemous" that the NFL team considered the crown jewel of the league had an out of town home game played for over 60 years, INCLUDING playoff games.

 

Russ says "We need this to stay viable in WNY" What a joke.

 

So the team DOESNT need to remain viable?

 

 

FIRE RUSS BRANDON NOW!!!!

 

OK, Chuck.

Edited January 31, 2013 by RkFast

[hondo in seattle]

Yeah.....good luck finding an ownership group looking to shell out a billion dollars for an NFL team and then run it as a non-profit.

 

+1

[BuffBill]

Nope, I think that went away with the last deal we had with Erie County. Hence the agreement to call it Ralph Wilson Stadium.

According to this article, the Bills keep the naming rights under the new lease?

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2012/12/21/new-bills-lease-could-trigger-new.html?page=all

[hondo in seattle]

Have you guys seen the fan map posted on another thread?

 

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18d0rfk0hn1lppng/original.png

 

Most clubs have large regional fan bases.

 

Buffalo's, fan base on the other hand, is geographically one of the smallest - including only Buffalo and outlying areas. And the Buffalo itself isn't very populous.

 

We really need Southern Ontario.

[Ronin]

Yeah, listening to him this morning was painful. It's his job to spin things positively, but he came across to me like he was saying: "Listen, Bills fans are always going to buy tickets. No matter what we decide to do, you shmucks are still coming in. So I don't care what you say, we're staying the course".

 

Do you see things differently?

 

I don't. Been that way for five seasons now. Any PoS team that they field, y'all go runnin'. Those of us that have said boycott the BS get chastised and labeled "not real fans" etc.

 

Who's laughing now? ... well actually no one's really laughing, but who's got the proverbial "last laugh" now. Seems to me there's a humongous heaping bowl of STFU and See-I-Told-You-So on the table for anyone that has foolishly made this organization profitable under the foolish notion that their short-term "buy in" in this way would somehow keep the team in Buffalo after Wilson croaks.

 

Just sayin'.

 

Every season it's the same thing and I'm sure there will be more of it this year too.

 

If Brandon does think what you said, he's absolutely right. If there's been any downturn in tix sales in recent years it's quite likely that it has a lot more to do with the down economy than the actual play of the team. Tix sales are down in most NFL cities that aren't in the biggest metro areas in the country. It's obviously not because they all suck as bad as our Bills.

 

The home opener will be packed again, along with the next three or four games after that rendering your thoughts spot-on.

[Homey D. Clown]

The naming rights don't belong to the Bills. It isn't their stadium. It's a county/state owned stadium.

 

Wrong.

[BillnutinHouston]

The team is more than profitable without the moronic toronto series, plain and simple, but like most go ahead and continue to kid yourself.

 

How can you be the judge of "more than profitable" unless you are the investor borrowing hundreds of millions to buy the team and need to see a certain % of ROI on your money? Profitibility is in the eye of the investor my friend. What's enough profit for you, may well be a bad investment to someone else.

 

What you fail to understand is, the Toronto series is "relocation insurance" in the sense that it improves the attractiveness of the WNY market for the NEXT owners.

[NorWideRight]

This miserable toronto series is BY FAR the worst thing to happen to the Bills in their entire sports history, it is an embarrassment to the team, the city of Buffalo, and has become a national punch line. After listening to Russ Brandon on the radio, it is VERY clear he is clueless to what this team needs to be successful, and does not care what fans, player, or anyone with common sense in the media have said. he continues to claim the game is a success, but even Canadian callers admit that they left the game this past Sunday NOT because the Bills were losing, but the experience was a complete bust.

 

I would like to publicly petition his removal, and get someone who knows that a team that plays less home games than the rest of the league will never be successful. The formula is simple, win games and the stadium will sell out in Buffalo, THE END. If the team plays better, the atmosphere will never favor the Bills at rogers center, so what is the point? the answer is painfully obvious, it is simply a cash grab with no regard to the team's loyal fanbase.

 

There are simply so many other ways to bring fans and corporate support to the team from Toronto, like possibly SELL naming rights to a toronto based business? SELL luxury suites and packages to toronto based businesses? SELL advertising to toronto based businesses? SELL tickets and travel packages to toronto residents? GOOD LORD that can't possibly help the team!! NO, Instead, give away a HOME game where they Bills are at a DISADVANTAGE!!!

 

Think the team's long term survival in Buffalo is the reason for this abomination? Then why is the City's name not present in the promotional material? "Bills in toronto series" is everywhere, but nowhere is it called the Buffalo Bills in toronto.

 

Ignore the facts if you want, but I simply don't know how anyone can fool themselves into thinking this is good for the city of Buffalo or the Bills anymore, I thought we were all smarter than that.

 

After hearing Russ on the radio this morning, I am convinced he is on a mission, and completely ignoring the obvious. FIRE RUSS BRANDON NOW!!!

 

NOTE - I.M. me your name and I will add it to the list, also if you'd like to add some brief comments, I will create a spot for your voice to be heard.

 

ALSO - SIGN THIS PETITION IN THE LINK PROVIDED BELOW:

 

https://www.change.o...-toronto-series

 

Lets stand up and stop this embarrassment and get our team back before it's too late!!!!

 

I'm in. How can I sign up? Will somebody please start another post like this.