SRQ_BillsFan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 How is the idea of making $9.4mil this year (much more than his current offer) considered a "threat"??? I get the whole 1-year thing, but all the tag does is buy us more time to work out a long term deal with him. And worst case scenario, he makes $1mil or $2mil more than he He misses out on the signing bonus, cash in hand he has been dreaming about spending. But not that big of a deal with $9 + mil comming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) it is quite possible that if he tests free agency, the bills will entertain other free agents, and sign somone else, and will either decide they don't need stevie anymore (or can't afford him) and then stevie has to sign with another team, and that team lowballs him. there are so many wide recievers out there that will test the market, and the amount of teams that need one isn't very high. and to top it off, the amount of teams with cap room to pay him a high amount limits it even more. I think there is risk in testing free agency in this case. If he was the best wide reciever available, and there weren't that many free agent wide recievers available, then he would have no risk in free agency. but there are too many recievers out there, and a good handfull of them are better than he is. out of the few teams that will seriously consider him, those same teams will be considering 10 different options. him getting overpaid is highly unlikely. I don't think that risk has anything to do with stevie and his agent being hopeful of a contract extension. I personally think it has more to do with that the bills might actually use the franchise tag before monday. Before they seemed to write it off that it wouldn't happen. But now with nix saying it hasn't been ruled out, I am guessing that was brought up in indy. I am almost positive the threat of the franchise tag is what moved things more forward. but that is just speculation on my part. 1.) The cap is not a problem for 24/32 team. 2.) The pool of FA WRs is deeper than most year's pool. However Stevie Johnson is 25 years old, coming off of back to back 1,000 yard seasons, and put on a clinic against Revis while he was banged up. Everywhere except for a few vocal posters on this board have Stevie Johnson in the Top 5 FA WRs. 3.) What does overpaid mean? He will get paid what he gets paid. I don't believe anyone thinks it will be less than 7.5 M a season. Yes it is possible that the Bills sign Vincent Jackson on the first day of Free Agency and poor Stevie is left out in the cold forced to play football elsewhere. Yes that is the risk that Stevie need to take in order to test the FA market. Does anyone really think that is a reason why Stevie Johnson wouldn't test the FA market? We are talking past each other - so o.k., you want him to "ski". I tried to explain why one might not want to test the waters. You don't see that there are risks to doing that. In your mind, all free agents should test free agency. Since that doesn't always happen, do you consider such people foolish for not doing so? I don't for the reasons I have listed. -RnJ Stevie Johnson's particular situation is not representative of all free agents. I don't think we are talking past each other. I am discussing points you are bringing up as reasons why he wouldn't test FA. It looks like we both agree that the reasons not to test Free Agency are pretty weak for Stevie Johnson. Edited March 2, 2012 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 hahahaha enough said! I take it as more evidence im right when I anger people so much yet they have no real arguement against my opinion. Usually its something about my spelling and grammar and not the post. If you disagree, offer a counter point (to the main statement) dont cherry pick one point out of 10, claim the bad grammar makes me an idiot, or just offer insults. Half the reason I post is to offset the total lack of intelligence and hypocracy I see in half the posts I read here. Is it my fault my memory extends about 20 years and I dont forget the majority of plays Ive witnessed? Most here can remember only 1 - 2 years back. Either that or they get emotionally attached to Bills who they originally supported and cant admit they backed a loser. Even up to 2010 many posters still were writing the following, "trent edwards is good, its the line thats the problem, we were 5-1 before the concussion- fitz sucks." It reminds me of when people used to say, "rob johnson had the game won!" after the music city miracle. Well he threw for 99 yards and we scored 14 points off the running game and defense and 3 from him in a shoeless drive. How many more wins did johnson have afterwards? 3? Yet some people still repeat that idiotic statement. So now I post that stevie is a great #2 and an average number 1 and I get all this hate. I bet the same people backing stevie are the same people calling evans' non touchdown in baltimore a drop. They just need to be right about his trade being a "great move" because he was hurt and then "dropped" the game winner. Evans has fewer real drops in all his swhole career than stevie has in just two seasons, look it up. It would be nice if posters could come up with real stats and perspectives instead of shallow, one-off comments like "ask revis about stevie" and "we were 5-1 until the concussion" and I and not an idiot! I'm not sure what you said to piss everyone off but aside from the masturbatory self-aggrandizement this post is right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 He misses out on the signing bonus, cash in hand he has been dreaming about spending. But not that big of a deal with $9 + mil comming. Exactly, $9M divided by 16 games...Johnson gets a check of over $560,000 every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Exactly, $9M divided by 16 games...Johnson gets a check of over $560,000 every week. 9.4 million is a low number when you consider he probably will hit double that amount in guarantees on a new contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 9.4 million is a low number when you consider he probably will hit double that amount in guarantees on a new contract. Yeah, I know. Just wish he would sign with us soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Threat of the franchise tag being used. How is the idea of making $9.4mil this year (much more than his current offer) considered a "threat"??? I get the whole 1-year thing, but all the tag does is buy us more time to work out a long term deal with him. And worst case scenario, he makes $1mil or $2mil more than he was going to. This is not worst case, DrD. There is a risk for SJ if he is tagged. Suppose he and the Bills can't come to a deal before the season and he plays under the one year tender and shreds his knee. What then? Maybe he comes back a half step slower from his already not elite speed. Will he cash in big as a possession receiver at that point? Doubtful. There is risk for both sides. If the Bills let him test the free agent waters, they may lose him. If Stevie plays under the tender, he may suffer an injury which keeps him from ever scoring his monster payday. I don't believe any player really likes playing under the tag for one year as it's Russian roulette. I agree with you in the end though that the Bills sign him long-term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I love all the hate for SJ on this board/thread by some. Same guys that make excuses for fitz because he played hurt after the washington game. Still, those same guys/gals never bring up the fact that SJ played hurt at least as long as fitz did and almost caught 80 balls again for +1000 yards. The drops, the celebration penalties negate all that production - 2 consecutive years of production by the way. SJ is a number 1 receiver. Not elite like Fitzgerald or A. johnson, but a no. 1 all the same. He gets open and catches the ball despite being not that fast, not that tall, etc. Yet we should lowball this guy and run him out of town because he's made some immature mistakes, even though he's just entering his prime and beat the odds for 7th round picks already. Great idea. And you same posters will be complaining when the Bills throw out another makeshift offense and miss the playoffs again. You living room couch salary cap experts who somehow know exactly what a WR like SJ is worth, who will likely flock to this board and complain if SJ is signed for $1 more than you think he's due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I love all the hate for SJ on this board/thread by some. Same guys that make excuses for fitz because he played hurt after the washington game. Still, those same guys/gals never bring up the fact that SJ played hurt at least as long as fitz did and almost caught 80 balls again for +1000 yards. The drops, the celebration penalties negate all that production - 2 consecutive years of production by the way. SJ is a number 1 receiver. Not elite like Fitzgerald or A. johnson, but a no. 1 all the same. He gets open and catches the ball despite being not that fast, not that tall, etc. Yet we should lowball this guy and run him out of town because he's made some immature mistakes, even though he's just entering his prime and beat the odds for 7th round picks already. Great idea. And you same posters will be complaining when the Bills throw out another makeshift offense and miss the playoffs again. You living room couch salary cap experts who somehow know exactly what a WR like SJ is worth, who will likely flock to this board and complain if SJ is signed for $1 more than you think he's due. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I love all the hate for SJ on this board/thread by some. Same guys that make excuses for fitz because he played hurt after the washington game. Still, those same guys/gals never bring up the fact that SJ played hurt at least as long as fitz did and almost caught 80 balls again for +1000 yards. The drops, the celebration penalties negate all that production - 2 consecutive years of production by the way. SJ is a number 1 receiver. Not elite like Fitzgerald or A. johnson, but a no. 1 all the same. He gets open and catches the ball despite being not that fast, not that tall, etc. Yet we should lowball this guy and run him out of town because he's made some immature mistakes, even though he's just entering his prime and beat the odds for 7th round picks already. Great idea. And you same posters will be complaining when the Bills throw out another makeshift offense and miss the playoffs again. You living room couch salary cap experts who somehow know exactly what a WR like SJ is worth, who will likely flock to this board and complain if SJ is signed for $1 more than you think he's due. A couple things. The kid played his nuts off for us. He was OUR #1 receiever. He has an upside still. He has been a proffesional during the talks, showing maturity and i think we should have him back Maybe we all have a little Ralph is cheap inside us though. Stevie will be one of our highest paid players and if we sign him Buddy is going to be challenged to bring in much FA quality without renogotiating some of our current contracts. Thats ok as long as we draft well. I have been one to say he is a very good #2 WR. And thats not a knock on him he is just not elite. All that being said i say sign him before the 13th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I love all the hate for SJ on this board/thread by some. Same guys that make excuses for fitz because he played hurt after the washington game. Still, those same guys/gals never bring up the fact that SJ played hurt at least as long as fitz did and almost caught 80 balls again for +1000 yards. The drops, the celebration penalties negate all that production - 2 consecutive years of production by the way. SJ is a number 1 receiver. Not elite like Fitzgerald or A. johnson, but a no. 1 all the same. He gets open and catches the ball despite being not that fast, not that tall, etc. Yet we should lowball this guy and run him out of town because he's made some immature mistakes, even though he's just entering his prime and beat the odds for 7th round picks already. Great idea. And you same posters will be complaining when the Bills throw out another makeshift offense and miss the playoffs again. You living room couch salary cap experts who somehow know exactly what a WR like SJ is worth, who will likely flock to this board and complain if SJ is signed for $1 more than you think he's due. Best post of the thread. Couldn't be said any better. Only thing you could have added is that most of the SJ haters are Evans lovers and still think Lee is better even thought after just 2 years starting, SJ is approaching Lees career TD total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussiebills Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 does anyone know when the tag has to be used by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 does anyone know when the tag has to be used by Monday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Monday Monday at 4:00 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Well to me I think that if the Bills don't sign him before Monday afternoon they risk losing him in FA. Buddy better get this done because I for one am getting worried that they might have to franchise him which is a big risk on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 18 pages and no contract update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) A couple things. The kid played his nuts off for us. He was OUR #1 receiever. He has an upside still. He has been a proffesional during the talks, showing maturity and i think we should have him back Maybe we all have a little Ralph is cheap inside us though. Stevie will be one of our highest paid players and if we sign him Buddy is going to be challenged to bring in much FA quality without renogotiating some of our current contracts. Thats ok as long as we draft well. I have been one to say he is a very good #2 WR. And thats not a knock on him he is just not elite. All that being said i say sign him before the 13th. This. Zulu Cthulhu is right on here. SJ played hurt with a hurt QB tossing to him and still put up the numbers. Statistically, he's a "#1" WR in that he's in the 15-20 range (there are 32 teams). The question is really where does he want to be paid - like a #15 or like a top-10? and how much guaranteed? Prognosticators around the internet say he's "the value FA pickup" at $6-7 million. Most players want to be paid, or have some leeway to be paid, up to their potential at the end of the contract they sign. SJ's agent says he wants $7.5 million. Bills spokesmen say if that was what he wanted, he'd be signed by now. Logic says the devil is in stuff like signing bonuses and how much guaranteed. The beauty of Fitz' contract is it really did protect both sides - Fitz got some upfront $ without tieing the Bills up if he doesn't perform - they can cut him and owe very little. Win-win. Hopefully the Bills and SJ's agents can agree on some combination of guaranteed money and performance incentives that would protect both sides interests. I would not be surprised if it doesn't wait until FA to let SJ calibrate, how much is he really worth, will someone come calling with $10 million or, is $6-7 million more likely? Edited March 4, 2012 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I kind of feel like SJ's camp is trying to call Nix's bluff of placing the franchise tag at the eleventh hour if they can't get a deal done. I'm not sure if he's bluffing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loserlovers Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I love all the hate for SJ on this board/thread by some. Same guys that make excuses for fitz because he played hurt after the washington game. Still, those same guys/gals never bring up the fact that SJ played hurt at least as long as fitz did and almost caught 80 balls again for +1000 yards. The drops, the celebration penalties negate all that production - 2 consecutive years of production by the way. SJ is a number 1 receiver. Not elite like Fitzgerald or A. johnson, but a no. 1 all the same. He gets open and catches the ball despite being not that fast, not that tall, etc. Yet we should lowball this guy and run him out of town because he's made some immature mistakes, even though he's just entering his prime and beat the odds for 7th round picks already. Great idea. And you same posters will be complaining when the Bills throw out another makeshift offense and miss the playoffs again. You living room couch salary cap experts who somehow know exactly what a WR like SJ is worth, who will likely flock to this board and complain if SJ is signed for $1 more than you think he's due. Again, how are "WE" running him out of town? Do we all need to praise him and pretend he is great or he will read this and leave? And how is it to his credit he made it as a seventh rounder? doesnt he owe the bills for using their seventh on him when he wasnt too fast or tall? he took 3 years to develop, without the bills hed probably be bagging groceries or doing whatever he learned at kentucky. He has great off the line skills and decent hands, thats it. No real speed no real range or size. So we have to say hes a true #1 now why? Are we the ones talking with his agent? I dont get it. Id rather have desean jackson or VJ if we are going to spend 9 million, id gladly take SJ for 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Again, how are "WE" running him out of town? Do we all need to praise him and pretend he is great or he will read this and leave? And how is it to his credit he made it as a seventh rounder? doesnt he owe the bills for using their seventh on him when he wasnt too fast or tall? he took 3 years to develop, without the bills hed probably be bagging groceries or doing whatever he learned at kentucky. He has great off the line skills and decent hands, thats it. No real speed no real range or size. So we have to say hes a true #1 now why? Are we the ones talking with his agent? I dont get it. Id rather have desean jackson or VJ if we are going to spend 9 million, id gladly take SJ for 6. We can't keep creating holes on this team. How often does a team sign two starters at the same position in FA? Especially young talented receivers in a passing league? It doesn't happen often and its not like we are cash strapped. Stevie is 25, 6'2'' and has had two good seasons back to back. IS he the best in the league, no. But he's a good player and good teams keep as much talent as possible. Thats how you create depth, thats how you can afford to have a few injuries and not skip a beat. I think it would be a big loss if we let stevie go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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