3rdand12 Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) Earlier in the post it was suggested that it was to Stevie and agent's advantage to wait it out till the offers poured in. Well if thats the case i am sure that Buddy knows the upside and downside. One thing is for sure, is that i am f'n really wanting to know all the details have actually occurred between the team and product "stevie johnson". Have never payed this close attention to this process before. The Clabo thing was just a load of poop really and simple. This one intrigues the heck out of me. I would like to be a fly on the wall and listen to the offers being haggled. Will we know as fans much detail when it's over? I am starting to worry SJ is holding out. But it is a little bit of off season excitement. I think we can get enough help in FA still. Not #1's but still we might have to pay too much for any one of them mid+ guys. We wont just lose our passing game though, if Stevie's Agent takes him away from us. Edited March 1, 2012 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellDressed Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Moulds accepted the 'hometown discount' after his rookie contract expired. The Eagles offered more dough, but he chose to remain a Bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 With FA just 12 days away, why would SJ sign now? If I was him, I would roll the dice and test the waters. Sure there is the possibility he may not get an offer better than the Bills current (whatever that is), but being that he won't break the bank like other more known WR's, some club would throw good money at him. Even if he rolled that dice and lost, he would still make more than he does now, sort of a win-win position His agent has surely discussed numbers with several teams already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 His agent has surely discussed numbers with several teams already Can they do that? I thought anything before Free Agency started was not allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loserlovers Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You should feel proud you just made my ignore list. Only 4 amazing posters have ever made this list. Have a good life. yes very good, the other three posters were... 1. statistics 2. logic 3. reasoning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 yes very good, the other three posters were... 1. statistics 2. logic 3. reasoning You keep spouting off about your "logical" arguments in this thread, yet every one of your posts could've easily been written by my cousin. She's 11 years old. And not a big football fan. Go back and look up those big words again, I think you may be misunderstanding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loserlovers Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Your and idiot. hahahaha enough said! I take it as more evidence im right when I anger people so much yet they have no real arguement against my opinion. Usually its something about my spelling and grammar and not the post. If you disagree, offer a counter point (to the main statement) dont cherry pick one point out of 10, claim the bad grammar makes me an idiot, or just offer insults. Half the reason I post is to offset the total lack of intelligence and hypocracy I see in half the posts I read here. Is it my fault my memory extends about 20 years and I dont forget the majority of plays Ive witnessed? Most here can remember only 1 - 2 years back. Either that or they get emotionally attached to Bills who they originally supported and cant admit they backed a loser. Even up to 2010 many posters still were writing the following, "trent edwards is good, its the line thats the problem, we were 5-1 before the concussion- fitz sucks." It reminds me of when people used to say, "rob johnson had the game won!" after the music city miracle. Well he threw for 99 yards and we scored 14 points off the running game and defense and 3 from him in a shoeless drive. How many more wins did johnson have afterwards? 3? Yet some people still repeat that idiotic statement. So now I post that stevie is a great #2 and an average number 1 and I get all this hate. I bet the same people backing stevie are the same people calling evans' non touchdown in baltimore a drop. They just need to be right about his trade being a "great move" because he was hurt and then "dropped" the game winner. Evans has fewer real drops in all his swhole career than stevie has in just two seasons, look it up. It would be nice if posters could come up with real stats and perspectives instead of shallow, one-off comments like "ask revis about stevie" and "we were 5-1 until the concussion" and I and not an idiot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 yes very good, the other three posters were... 1. statistics 2. logic 3. reasoning "You keep using (those) words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean" - Inigo Montoya (modified) You keep spouting off about your "logical" arguments in this thread, yet every one of your posts could've easily been written by my cousin. She's 11 years old. And not a big football fan. Go back and look up those big words again, I think you may be misunderstanding them. Please to not insult the posting level of 11 year old girls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) So now I post that stevie is a great #2 and an average number 1 and I get all this hate. I actually sort of agree if you're talking about Stevie being among the elite receivers right now. The answer is no. If you're comparing skill for skill he is not elite. But I don't think that's the argument. The argument is that he's 25 and all the stats that I looked up prove that WR's peak between 25 and 31 (Rice, Reed, Owens, Fitzgerald, etc). The fact that he's produced the last 2 years, shows that he deserves and will get elite money on the premis that he will emerge as one of the games elite. The argument that he won't ever emerge is just as speculative as the argument that he will, no one knows. But the Bills as an organization can't afford to allow the opportunity to let this young man become that for them leave. Edited March 2, 2012 by Triple Threat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Can they do that? I thought anything before Free Agency started was not allowed? Officially, I think discussing potential contract offers before FA starts (today) is called "tampering". Unofficially, if an agent and a rep from another team happen to sit next to each other at the same bar, and the rep from the other team says something like "wow, your boy really has the goods, he'd sure look good in red and gold. Hey, we were talking about going after Player X in FA and offering him a $40 million contract and he's not the player your guy is", well, whatcha gonna do? The downside (for the player and agent) is that the devil is in the details for the smart negotiators. The annual salary is one thing, the signing bonus and the (other) guaranteed monies are frequently the sticking point. And talk is cheap. So it's easy to talk up a great contract, that isn't as great a deal overall when the details of the structure come out. I think the Bills and Johnson probably have something pretty close to a deal, and are waiting until FA starts and they can gauge the actual interest level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Would there be any motivation for the team to wait to sign him? I mean say they already had a gentlemens agreement and waited till the 12th to announce. Besides giving fodder to us to bicker and project about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Officially, I think discussing potential contract offers before FA starts (today) is called "tampering". Not for a couple more weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Would there be any motivation for the team to wait to sign him? I mean say they already had a gentlemens agreement and waited till the 12th to announce. Besides giving fodder to us to bicker and project about? We will never know for sure simply because it is in none of the party's concerned interest to share such knowledge publicly. It is pretty safe to say there is no Gentleman's Agreement - each side has a set of motives - Johnson's - to get the most guaranteed money possible. Bills FO - to pay the least. In between, is the desire for the player to be signed in Buffalo. Prior to the start of Free Agency, they can only talk to each other (or not at all). Waiting until after the 12th has risks for both sides so the Bills MIGHT threaten to pull an offer after the 12th. That is THEIR lone "Ace-in-the-hole". Johnson can threaten to wait until free agency to "test the market". It usually comes down to how many yachts the player wants to ski behind versus how much a team wants to threaten (lowball?) a player with a pulled offer. Waiting until the 12th simply means that's the deadline for the threats to come due. This has sounded cordial so my take on this is the delay is simply understood to be that there is no deadline until the 12th. period. My expectation - FWIW - is that Stevie will agree to a deal before going to free agency - if he truly wants to stay here and the Bills made an offer he considers reasonable. my 2 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 We will never know for sure simply because it is in none of the party's concerned interest to share such knowledge publicly. It is pretty safe to say there is no Gentleman's Agreement - each side has a set of motives - Johnson's - to get the most guaranteed money possible. Bills FO - to pay the least. In between, is the desire for the player to be signed in Buffalo. Prior to the start of Free Agency, they can only talk to each other (or not at all). Waiting until after the 12th has risks for both sides so the Bills MIGHT threaten to pull an offer after the 12th. That is THEIR lone "Ace-in-the-hole". Johnson can threaten to wait until free agency to "test the market". It usually comes down to how many yachts the player wants to ski behind versus how much a team wants to threaten (lowball?) a player with a pulled offer. Waiting until the 12th simply means that's the deadline for the threats to come due. This has sounded cordial so my take on this is the delay is simply understood to be that there is no deadline until the 12th. period. My expectation - FWIW - is that Stevie will agree to a deal before going to free agency - if he truly wants to stay here and the Bills made an offer he considers reasonable. my 2 cents Thats an interest take, put yourself in Stevie's shoes for a minute and think about it again. What possible motivation would he have for signing before he was a FA? After this deal the next time he is likely to be a FA he will be on the other side of 30. Right now he is in the prime of his athletic potential coming off two good seasons. He is going to be wine & dinned by most of the NFL. I can't imagine anyone that really thinks about the situation would ever sign before they were able to have the experience of being recruited by 32 NFL teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Can they do that? I thought anything before Free Agency started was not allowed? it isn't allowed and no way it happened. teams would be in serious trouble if they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Thats an interest take, put yourself in Stevie's shoes for a minute and think about it again. What possible motivation would he have for signing before he was a FA? After this deal the next time he is likely to be a FA he will be on the other side of 30. Right now he is in the prime of his athletic potential coming off two good seasons. He is going to be wine & dinned by most of the NFL. I can't imagine anyone that really thinks about the situation would ever sign before they were able to have the experience of being recruited by 32 NFL teams. Again, this depends on whether or not you think he is being disingenuous about wanting to stay in Buffalo. If money trumps all, then you are correct. I grant you, it usually does, especially for the young. But if it were ME - I'd be thinking about getting the best deal I can BEFORE going to free agency since it would not be all about the money. I'd want to play for Buffalo and, as long as I felt the offer made was "reasonable" (VERY SUBJECTIVE), then I would agree to the deal and get back to work. Testing the market will probably mean a higher offer but not necessarily. Either way then you (the player) have a hard decision to make (again if you really want to stay) - take the more money or take the Buffalo offer. You also open yourself up to feeling "unwanted" or "not respected" by the Bills since they won't pay as much. Yada yada yada - this gets back to my "How Many Yacht's" question - How much does it truly matter if you are making $7.5 million a year versus $8? (for example). I guess I am up to 4 cents now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The Eagles have tagged DeSean Jackson. One more WR off the market. What about the dozen or so wide recievers that are still unsigned? The list is HUGE compared to any year. Even after the 1st tier of free agents, the 2nd tier is just as long. Why are you acting like the only free agents as of now are welker, v jackson, colston, and bowe? sure, most of those players will sign with there current team and/or get franchise tagged. but what about Laurent Robinson, Reggie wayne, lloyd, meachum, garcon, simpson, buress, doucet, Caldwell, eddie royal, hines ward, etc. Teams probably wouldn't overpay stevie if they have cheaper options in players that are slightly less productive or can get the same results by paying somone better. Then even if for some odd reason stevie is the ONLY option they have in free agency, then they STILL don't have to overpay, because hey, they can always draft one in april. Lot's of wide recievers out there and teams aren't going to have to overpay. except maybe the bills. Now left tackle.... there are hardly any out there in free agency, so a team might be overpaying for bell... but WR? gawd no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Again, this depends on whether or not you think he is being disingenuous about wanting to stay in Buffalo. If money trumps all, then you are correct. I grant you, it usually does, especially for the young. But if it were ME - I'd be thinking about getting the best deal I can BEFORE going to free agency since it would not be all about the money. I'd want to play for Buffalo and, as long as I felt the offer made was "reasonable" (VERY SUBJECTIVE), then I would agree to the deal and get back to work. Testing the market will probably mean a higher offer but not necessarily. Either way then you (the player) have a hard decision to make (again if you really want to stay) - take the more money or take the Buffalo offer. You also open yourself up to feeling "unwanted" or "not respected" by the Bills since they won't pay as much. Yada yada yada - this gets back to my "How Many Yacht's" question - How much does it truly matter if you are making $7.5 million a year versus $8? (for example). I guess I am up to 4 cents now.... The piece you're missing is that he doesn't know what the Bills contract is in comparison to. You say 7.5M vs 8M (for example) but right now its is 7.5M vs ?.?M You need to see the other offers before you can make a comparison. In order to see the other offers you need to get the other offers. Also saying "I want to come back to Buffalo" and entertaining Free Agent offers are not two mutual exclusive actions. Look at Clabo last year. He tested the free agent market, He reportedly got higher offers, He then took the lower offer to stay with his current team. Again, I understand you have an opinion. However I personally don't understand why anyone in Stevie's position wouldn't test the waters and see what other contracts are out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richNjoisy Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The piece you're missing is that he doesn't know what the Bills contract is in comparison to. You say 7.5M vs 8M (for example) but right now its is 7.5M vs ?.?M You need to see the other offers before you can make a comparison. In order to see the other offers you need to get the other offers. Also saying "I want to come back to Buffalo" and entertaining Free Agent offers are not two mutual exclusive actions. Look at Clabo last year. He tested the free agent market, He reportedly got higher offers, He then took the lower offer to stay with his current team. Again, I understand you have an opinion. However I personally don't understand why anyone in Stevie's position wouldn't test the waters and see what other contracts are out there. We are talking past each other - so o.k., you want him to "ski". I tried to explain why one might not want to test the waters. You don't see that there are risks to doing that. In your mind, all free agents should test free agency. Since that doesn't always happen, do you consider such people foolish for not doing so? I don't for the reasons I have listed. -RnJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Again, I understand you have an opinion. However I personally don't understand why anyone in Stevie's position wouldn't test the waters and see what other contracts are out there. it is quite possible that if he tests free agency, the bills will entertain other free agents, and sign somone else, and will either decide they don't need stevie anymore (or can't afford him) and then stevie has to sign with another team, and that team lowballs him. there are so many wide recievers out there that will test the market, and the amount of teams that need one isn't very high. and to top it off, the amount of teams with cap room to pay him a high amount limits it even more. I think there is risk in testing free agency in this case. If he was the best wide reciever available, and there weren't that many free agent wide recievers available, then he would have no risk in free agency. but there are too many recievers out there, and a good handfull of them are better than he is. out of the few teams that will seriously consider him, those same teams will be considering 10 different options. him getting overpaid is highly unlikely. I don't think that risk has anything to do with stevie and his agent being hopeful of a contract extension. I personally think it has more to do with that the bills might actually use the franchise tag before monday. Before they seemed to write it off that it wouldn't happen. But now with nix saying it hasn't been ruled out, I am guessing that was brought up in indy. I am almost positive the threat of the franchise tag is what moved things more forward. but that is just speculation on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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