Coach Tuesday Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Im not defending the guy (or guys), but who did they get rid of this year that would have turned any of the losses into wins? As far as I know, only Hangartner and Evans were perceived "money moves". Did we cut a pass rusher or serviceable OT that I missed? You may want to check out one of the 50 or so Maybin threads... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 You know this how? Not sure which 'this' you are referring to but I'll try to answer your question as best I can. I think the Polian incident is pretty much common knowledge. Surely he wasn't fired for performance issues? I have 25+ years of professional experience observing and defining organizations so while I have no firsthand information on the working within OBD it seems obvious to me how the organization operates. It isn't that difficult to read between the lines and fill in the blanks to develop a plausible view. The finance people call all the shots and football decisions and on-field performance is secondary. Frankly, I think there is an element of dishonesty and lack a lot of integrity at work here. They are doing little to produce a winning quality product for their customers while building the illusion of constant attempts at progress all the while pocketing a tidy sum of loot. Only in a monopoly environment can such an organization survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 You may want to check out one of the 50 or so Maybin threads... So now we all knew Maybin was good and he was only cut because of money? I thought it was because he was a complete joke whenever we put him on the field? Im pretty sure it was a CONSENSUS that Maybin needed to go and stop wasting the roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 So now we all knew Maybin was good and he was only cut because of money? I thought it was because he was a complete joke whenever we put him on the field? Im pretty sure it was a CONSENSUS that Maybin needed to go and stop wasting the roster spot. YUP. Let's all concede that if the Bills had the Jets defensive roster Maybin may have had more impact as a third down specialist for the Bills and would have been worth the roster spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Im not defending the guy (or guys), but who did they get rid of this year that would have turned any of the losses into wins? As far as I know, only Hangartner and Evans were perceived "money moves". Did we cut a pass rusher or serviceable OT that I missed? Can't cut someone who isn't there. Too many backup quality starters. Plan B is there is some guy watching TV somewhere that wants to play in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 You may want to check out one of the 50 or so Maybin threads... I don't feel like looking but you weren't one of the 85% of Bills fans who wanted Maybin gone. And saying the Bills don't spend money is just lazy. They just seem to spend it on the wrong guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I don't feel like looking but you weren't one of the 85% of Bills fans who wanted Maybin gone. And saying the Bills don't spend money is just lazy. They just seem to spend it on the wrong guys. Id be surprised if a preseason poll showed 15% wanted to keep him. That sounds very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I hate the way the Bills are run but just having an owner willing to spend a lot of money doesn't guarantee anything. Just look at the Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Also, the Maybin argument, here's my problem with it. 1) Polling fans to see who thought Maybin was good and who thought he was worth letting go is pointless, IMO. Its up to the FO to make solid personnel decisions, regardless of what the fans think. You can say whatever you want about Maybin. There is a lot of hyerbole floating around on both sides of the argument. But the point is, no matter how you spin it, he has had a good year and made an impact for a solid football team. He has pressured the QB and has more sacks than any single Bills player. You can spin it how you like, he would have been a value to this team. 2) No one can sit here and tell me that opinions on Maybin were not in large part guided by Bills coaches and regional media. The latter of the two, I don't trust at all. The first, I still have some sembelance in faith in, but the point is, our head coach was actively calling out Maybin to the media. The fans saw this, knew he underperformed his rookie year, and saw that he was healthy, yet often inactive on gameday. And when he was active, he rarely got on the field outside of special teams. In fact, I'd like to see how many snaps he actually got during Gailey's first year of coaching. Most fans, even the most educated among us, would see this and say "man, this guy must actually suck". 3) 6 sacks and 4 FF is not an anomaly. Does it mean Maybin is an every down player? Definitely not. Does it mean he is a pro bowler? No. But it does mean that when put in the right situations, he can use his ability to make an impact. Maybe he can only perform in overload blitz packages that confuse the line. Maybe he can only perform when he is up against subpar tackles/TEs/RBs. But the point is, the Jets put him in a position to make an impact and the Bills didn't. 4) I'm almost positive the Bills are paying part of his salary. As he sacks our QB. Correct me if I'm wrong. The point is, we can't sit here and say "well, the Bills coaching staff and FO are off the hook for Maybin, bc NO one thought he could pull this off". No, the fans thought he couldn't pull this off. The FO needs to do better. I agree with those points, it was on the Bills Staff to put him in a position to succeed. But we cant say how much of that was on the staff and how much was on Maybin. A change of scenery goes a long way for a lot of people. And lord knows the differences between the Jets clubhouse and the Bills probably pretty huge. I was worried that Maybin would finally mature and "get it" after we cut him, but at the same time couldnt justify keeping him around, especially after most of his plays for the Bills looked like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvb9kUeXrQ8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 5, 2011 Author Share Posted December 5, 2011 Also, the Maybin argument, here's my problem with it. 4) I'm almost positive the Bills are paying part of his salary. As he sacks our QB. Correct me if I'm wrong. Bills are not paying him a dime. He's also on a different contract I believe, since he cleared waivers when Jets waived him and brought him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineMoxie Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 And saying the Bills don't spend money is just lazy. They just seem to spend it on the wrong guys. Then why are they $24 million under the cap? And why didn't they go out and get at least a serviceable center when Wood went down? Sure, they only made one or two cost-saving moves (e.g. Lee Evans), but when you're that far under the cap, there's only so much you can cut without fielding a team of high schoolers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Then why are they $24 million under the cap? And why didn't they go out and get at least a serviceable center when Wood went down? Sure, they only made one or two cost-saving moves (e.g. Lee Evans), but when you're that far under the cap, there's only so much you can cut without fielding a team of high schoolers. Who? Urbik has looked good at Center, at least as good as any backup who was sitting at home would be. Exactly which other Free Agents did you want them to bring in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Who? Urbik has looked good at Center, at least as good as any backup who was sitting at home would be. Exactly which other Free Agents did you want them to bring in? Oh, here we go. We always get to this part of the argument, when us critics are asked to point to the 50 transactions we would've pulled off if we were running the show. Tim F. Tebow, stop it already. The proof is in the pudding. Gailey has been openly complaining for a month about the team's lack of depth, and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out why the team lacks depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Aren't there some secretaries to blame as well? PTR Gotta protect your fellow co workers, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABills08 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Bills are not paying him a dime. He's also on a different contract I believe, since he cleared waivers when Jets waived him and brought him back. Thanks for clarifying. I take that back. I wasn't sure if they pay the signing bonus in one lump sum or over the course of his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 It isn't that difficult to read between the lines and fill in the blanks to develop a plausible view. It is on TBD when people can't take their fan glasses off and look at how successful teams are doing it. So now we all knew Maybin was good and he was only cut because of money? I thought it was because he was a complete joke whenever we put him on the field? Im pretty sure it was a CONSENSUS that Maybin needed to go and stop wasting the roster spot. Why does a discussion about upper management and their bad decisions always devolve into discussing individual players? This goes beyond coaching and even personnel at this point. Frankly, I don't care about Aaron Maybin, especially when the Bills can't plan ahead to have a backup center who won't re-order the OL when 1 guy gets hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) For all the opinions and rants, I actually find this to be a really interesting thread. Unfortunately, I have nothing of value to contribute. Carry on. Edited December 5, 2011 by Rubes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Its hard to imagine that so many Football Ops staffs are coming in and burning the "staples" of the Bills organization over and over again. There are constants there at OBD and any owner who had winning as a priority would have nuked the front office no later than the time Marv retired. Certain power brokers there keep their jobs no matter how many terrible decisions are made. Other guys take the fall, rinse and repeat. There is an endless list of events and clues that indicate that this is a second rate organization. People are either in complete denial or blame it on the fans and the facility... or any of the gms, coaches, and scouts who were let go/resigned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Also, the Maybin argument, here's my problem with it. 1) Polling fans to see who thought Maybin was good and who thought he was worth letting go is pointless, IMO. Its up to the FO to make solid personnel decisions, regardless of what the fans think. You can say whatever you want about Maybin. There is a lot of hyerbole floating around on both sides of the argument. But the point is, no matter how you spin it, he has had a good year and made an impact for a solid football team. He has pressured the QB and has more sacks than any single Bills player. You can spin it how you like, he would have been a value to this team. 2) No one can sit here and tell me that opinions on Maybin were not in large part guided by Bills coaches and regional media. The latter of the two, I don't trust at all. The first, I still have some sembelance of faith in, but the point is, our head coach was actively calling out Maybin to the media. The fans saw this, knew he underperformed his rookie year, and saw that he was healthy, yet often inactive on gameday. And when he was active, he rarely got on the field outside of special teams. In fact, I'd like to see how many snaps he actually got during Gailey's first year of coaching. Most fans, even the most educated among us, would see this and say "man, this guy must actually suck". 3) 6 sacks and 4 FF is not an anomaly. Does it mean Maybin is an every down player? Definitely not. Does it mean he is a pro bowler? No. But it does mean that when put in the right situations, he can use his ability to make an impact. Maybe he can only perform in overload blitz packages that confuse the line. Maybe he can only perform when he is up against subpar tackles/TEs/RBs. But the point is, the Jets put him in a position to make an impact and the Bills didn't. 4) I'm almost positive the Bills are paying part of his salary. As he sacks our QB. Correct me if I'm wrong. The point is, we can't sit here and say "well, the Bills coaching staff and FO are off the hook for Maybin, bc NO one thought he could pull this off". No, the fans thought he couldn't pull this off. The FO needs to do better. Mahem has 6 sacks and 5 forced fumbles, not 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 It is on TBD when people can't take their fan glasses off and look at how successful teams are doing it. Why does a discussion about upper management and their bad decisions always devolve into discussing individual players? This goes beyond coaching and even personnel at this point. Frankly, I don't care about Aaron Maybin, especially when the Bills can't plan ahead to have a backup center who won't re-order the OL when 1 guy gets hurt. Successful teams build through the draft. This was a 4-12 team so it is going to take time. Yet we already have posters calling Spiller a bust after a year and a half. Everyone is frustrated but if they ever going to build a legit NFL team, it will take time and a few drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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