An informed opinion on our offense is needed

[reddogblitz]

here's what I do:

 

1. Throw 5 or 6 bombs a game to get the DBs to back off a little. Fitz can throw it and our guys can get open with it. DJ was open but over thrown. SJ dropped his but they called PI. CJ was wide open as well. Even if we don't catch it, they gotta think about it or we might get PI.

 

2. Work in some trick plays like a double reverse or End around to Spiller or Jones. Maybe a half back pass. Fred can throw.

 

3. Open it up. We gotta score a lot of points to win.

 

4. Feed Fred.

 

5. Try working in some other WRs like Martin or Aiken to see if they can catch the football any better.

 

6. Throw some passes to CJ on the run. Seattle did this with Lynch yesterday and it was very successful. Don't see why CJ couldn't do a similar thing.

[TheBrownBear]

To me, an old schooler, though not all that old...simple fix is to become a run first team. Bottom line is that we get the ball into Freddy J's hands a lot more, spell him with a change of pace back, Spiller, and open up the pass...Really, am I missing something?

 

 

This is exactly what we should be doing. The problem is yesterday this would have been impossible given the way we fell behind early. But I'd like to see us employ this strategy until we fall behind by 2+ scores.

[Casey D]

This is exactly what we should be doing. The problem is yesterday this would have been impossible given the way we fell behind early. But I'd like to see us employ this strategy until we fall behind by 2+ scores.

Exactly right. Defense and offense go hand in glove. If the defense keeps the score manageable, you can stick with the run, play action etc. You can't do that when the other team is scoring at will-- you are forced to try and keep up. If you are down 28-7 and the other team keeps scoring, 15 play drives that last 8 minutes will not win it for you. Maybe you lose 34-21 and the score is more respectable, but so what? All this talk about running and smashmouth and old time football is great, but not in a vacuum. To play that style, your defense has to give up no more that 21 or so points a game, and our D can't do that against a team with a decent offense. Miami is offensively challenged, so we may have a shot this week to stick with the run, and hopefully win... CD

[The Cincinnati Kid]

So, Freddy and CJ are in the backfield in the I. Who's the lead back? What's the game situation?

 

GO BILLS!!!

McIntyre would be the lead back. It was a separate thought separated by a "." and a new sentence. However, if you wanted to have both of them in an I formation in a short yardage situation and fake a dive to Fred as the fullback and then pitch to Spiller around the edge (ala Bledsoe to McGahee) then I am all for it.

[BiggieScooby]

Bills can use what has been working and that is getting Fred Jackson the ball via more carries. This guy should get 15 carries before halftime. If I were Chan I'd slow down the game and play more running formations and bulldoze more teams and beat em with play action like Jets. Scrap the spread until the second half and than unleash it with a dose of no-huddle to press our opponents into submission. The key is to be unpredictable, something that we haven't been doing a good job of.

[ieatcrayonz]

It's the same reason Baltimore and Philadelphia are losing games. Ignoring your outstanding running back has its consequences.

What also hasn't helped is that our QB got a fat new contract and transformed into Billy Joe Hobart.

[PromoTheRobot]

Bills can use what has been working and that is getting Fred Jackson the ball via more carries. This guy should get 15 carries before halftime. If I were Chan I'd slow down the game and play more running formations and bulldoze more teams and beat em with play action like Jets. Scrap the spread until the second half and than unleash it with a dose of no-huddle to press our opponents into submission. The key is to be unpredictable, something that we haven't been doing a good job of.

You are forgetting that the O-line has been injured. Do you run the ball just because, even if it doesn't work as well as it did when the line was healthier? We lost Wood but maybe getting Bell and Hairston back will help things.

 

PTR

[Just in Atlanta]

What also hasn't helped is that our QB got a fat new contract and transformed into Billy Joe Hobart.

Fitz' beard has more skill, desire and intelligence than Billy Joe "I didn't read the playbook" Hobert.

 

:thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

[Fan in Chicago]

So far, the solutions on this board to fix our offensive woes include:

 

• 
   
  
• Firing the defensive coordinator.
  
• Giving the rock to Freddy more, whose already getting 100 yards a game. (Maybe that's all we got, though, so the solution is acknowledged.)
  
• Going back in time to prevent Brad Smith from ever being born.
   
  

If that's the extent of our solutions, we clearly need more cowbell.

 

Okay, I will bite.

 

- More running. Mix in FJax with CJ and the rookie White. Make balance at about 60-40 runs. Need passing to keep defenses honest

- Relegate Jones to #4 receiver slot, elevate Nelson to #2 and Roosevelt to #3. Cos Jones flat out sucks and makes multiple mistakes while Nelson always shows up

- Convert CJ to full time WR and add the missing vertical element to the passing game. He dropped a key pass yesterday but continue to give him chances until he convincingly proves us otherwise

- Tinker with the OL once Bell gets back to get our best combination of strength and agility. As I stated in another thread this may involve Bell at LT and Hairston at RT

- Give Fitz the mandate to be careful with the rock.

[The Cincinnati Kid]

I dont like telling the QB to "be careful with the Rock." I think one of a Quarterback's best assets is to be able to throw it where he initially deems it should go. Just like when taking a test, your first thought is usually your best option. If we give the mandate, then we are in turn creating a slower release, more time for the DBs to get into position and more sacks. Reacting is for defense. The Quarterback is the catalyst and needs to be the guy who presses the issue each and every day in practice and on gamedays.

[Tcali]

Saw a CBS analysis on why we've been failing on O. Basically, DCs know our line is weak and can't sustain long plays, so they're jamming our WRs on the line, creating extra time to disrupt plays. Makes sense. Since we're lacking a physical receiver, it's been working.

 

So now, with Wood injured, where do we go from here on O?

 

We were able to put out amazing offensive performances with a weak o line. Now that the cat's out of the bag, and I do believe it's as simple as that, how do we adjust? Our D is as good as it's going to get. But I refuse to believe it's over for our O, especially since I believe in our core group of guys.

 

Some thoughts:

 

• 
   
  
• More Wildcat. On key plays, Smith can scramble, create extra time for a pass, and of course run. We've abandoned this.
  
• More speedy Spiller. Why does Chan REFUSE to use him?. If our pass is shut down, we need to run it down their throats--up the middle and the side.
  
• Jasper at OG. We're desperate if we've lost Wood.
  

We're getting a bit desperate now, but it's hardly over...We're only the second team in line for a wildcard. But the above solutions are only a patch. Is there something else we can do? I don't believe it's just a lack of execution, although it would be great if it were.

 

Looking for informed answers from people who know we aren't awesome or think the sky has fallen.

 

As much as teams have 'figured us out' we ARE still moving the ball on offense decently.I think it can be fixed with some tweaking. We are stalling out on drives where before we were puncjing it in.And the playcalling seems to have deteriorated.

Fitz is just not the type of QB who throws a good ball into the corner of the endzone...and its especially dumb on a 3rd or 4th and 2.The Bills need to go back to what was working before.I think Chan has been outsmarting himself and that is half the problem.

Of course get the ball to Spiller more in the spread offense.And give Fred more carries.-And if we are gonna stretch the D then at least stretch it where Fitz has a chance to get the ball there...namely 30-40 yarders over the middle.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Tcali

[Fitzyflakes67]

Despite a few poor games, I think Fitz is still very capable of driving our offense and scoring points. With a worse team last year he played well against solid defenses like Baltimore and Pittsburgh. I think we just flatout got dominated by the Jets and their cornerbacks but against Dallas we were just down big so quickly we had to play against our strengths and just couldn't produce much. We really were a few plays away from scoring more points and we did really have a ton of dropped balls. I'm really hoping this is just a bad stretch and we get back to playing solid football.

 

Also, I think our great start was misleading. We had some huge breaks in our two comeback wins and without them it woulda been just like last year, close losses to good teams. Now we've clearly evened out and happen to be going through a pretty ugly slump. I still think were improved and will be an 8-8 team, which is about what most of us hoped for.

[benderbender]

I would go along with all of this with the exception of 1 thing. The Wildcat is an absolute joke. I desperately wanted this to work for the Bills but it's a joke of a formation. Any half@ssed coach or player in this league will tell you it's a joke and a bad one at that. Smith is not even close to being even servicable as a QB/Passer/thrower/what ever you want to call it. He can't even play as a WR. At this point I notice the hype on him was absolutely false and was just a media frenzy stirred up by the Jets and the absolutely missinformed NY media. He's a joke. I'm actually mad the team FO pay this @ssclown more than $5.00 a year. He's a waste of a jersey number at this point. There are backup kickers/punters/ and practice squad QBs that could be using #16. His only throw all year was an I T or almost an INT (don't remember) and it didn't even look close to where it should have been. He's a waste of sperm, his father should of finished in the sink. But it's not all on him. It's mostly on the Bills FO for thinking he's actually a football player. OMG what a joke!!!! I haven't seen this guy return a kick all year and then he screws up the only thing that he attempts by not getting his foot out of bounds before he touches the ball. Come on!!!!! I couldn't be anymore dissapointed at his lack of production on all sides of play. Please somebody offer us a box of slim jims and a case of yoohoo for this scrub. I'll take that for him now.

 

Our wildcat isn't a threat because we haven't attempted a forward pass and they know Smith is scared

[DrFishfinder]

Our CBs for one and the talent of our OLBs for another. The first TD pass by Romo is a good example of an experienced QB taking advantage of man coverage on a blitz and burning our secondary because of it. Edwards is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

 

That's not a defense of Edwards. Just the obvious recognition that he is severely scheme-limited by the personnel he has. Maybe he can't devise blitz schemes to save his ass but I've seen us get burned too many times when he's tried it. I'd be reluctant as well.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I think Edwards is a wretched DC. The offense was supposed to be horrible too, but up until the last 2 games they played very well with essentially the same personnel as last year MINUS Lee Evans. That being said, Edwards hasn't been able to do anything with the defense even remotely close to what Gailey has (had) been able to do with the offense. T'HAT being said, we have no one left that is capable of generating a pass rush, Edwards or no Edwards. No one. I don't know that Edwards would have any more success with a legitimate pass rusher, but we're certainly not going to find out this season. And if the front office has any synapses left, they will replace Edwards with Wannstedt during the off season, which they should have done last off season.

[mrags]

Our wildcat isn't a threat because we haven't attempted a forward pass and they know Smith is scared

1. We haven't thrown a forward pass out of the wildcat because more than 90+% of wildcat is stupid runs into the @ssholes of your offensive lineman. It's no secret that we don't pass out of it. Nobody passes out of it. Mostly because the idiot athlete filling in at QB for that particular play is NOT a QB!!!!!

2. Smith might be scared but it's more along the lines of my ending sentance to my first point. The stress is in the fact that Smirh is an absolute joke in this league. Just like anyone else that is a gimmick type player. Roscoe, Hester, Hall, Etc...

When the Bills FO (and many fans like some people on this board) figure out that Smith is a joke and the Wildcat is a joke then maybe well all be better off.

Fact: the wildcat hasn't done jacks#!t since Miami got lucky with it a few years ago. Then all coaches did was tell thier defenses to just play the run and allow the offense to fight for a yard or two. IT DOESNT WORK!!!!! Get over it people. And Smith sucks, just like Parrish and all the other idiots we love so much. Just because Smith played ok on KR in NY doesn't mean anything here. Biggest waste ever on this team!!!! EVER!!! Up there with Maybin. Glad we spent $4milliom on someone who refuses to return KR out of the endzone. Maybe he just doesn't want anyone to know how terrible he really is and how it was all the Jets special teams that were really good. I can't wait till this guy is cut.

[ieatcrayonz]

Fitz' beard has more skill, desire and intelligence than Billy Joe "I didn't read the playbook" Hobert.

 

:thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

He was smart enough to get a new contract before he stopped reading it.

[mjt328]

When a defense jams receivers at the line of scrimmage and plays bump-and-run, they are usually leaving themselves open for big plays down the field.

The problem is:

 

1. None of our receivers are fast enough to consistently cause separation down the field

2. Our offensive line isn't good enough to hold blocks for that extra 1-2 seconds

3. Our quarterback is extremely inaccurate on downfield passes

 

The offense we have been running for 9 games is DESIGNED to mask all these weak points. Now that teams have figured us out, there really isn't much we can do about it - other than add more talent to the team. Defenses are basically DARING us to beat them 1-on-1 downfield and we CAN'T DO IT.

 

This is why I can't blame Chan for the recent offensive downturn. He has the choice to either:

a) Run an offense that goes completely against the strengths of his players

b) Keep trying what worked for the first 7 games, despite the fact that defenses now know how to counter it

 

 

If I was the offensive coordinator, I would probably try to run more play-action (like someone else already suggested) with a quarterback roll-out. This might help a little bit with our protection and getting receivers open. But if Fitzpatrick can't be better at long passes, the results are going to be the same.

[thewildrabbit]

I think Edwards is a wretched DC. The offense was supposed to be horrible too, but up until the last 2 games they played very well with essentially the same personnel as last year MINUS Lee Evans. That being said, Edwards hasn't been able to do anything with the defense even remotely close to what Gailey has (had) been able to do with the offense. T'HAT being said, we have no one left that is capable of generating a pass rush, Edwards or no Edwards. No one. I don't know that Edwards would have any more success with a legitimate pass rusher, but we're certainly not going to find out this season. And if the front office has any synapses left, they will replace Edwards with Wannstedt during the off season, which they should have done last off season.

NFN, but the Bills did get 10 sacks on the Redskins with Chris kelsay at OLB and MD moved to NT. Granted the Skins are a bad team with woeful O line injuries, kinda like the Buffalo Bills are right now.The Bills were paper thin at the start of the season and now are paying the price of not having adequate depth, this team couldn't afford to lose any players and yet have lost so many. If the Bills ever get Kelsay back it should help get more pressure on the QB.

 

What gets me is ...these are about the very same players that Jauron and Fewell were able to mold into a top 5 passing defense, along with the very same defensive backs coach! Now they are currently 29th against the pass! WTH happened to the pass defense? The run defense which set a Buffalo Bills record for being bad last season managed to move up to 24th this year.

 

Not sure who to replace Edwards with at this point, if Wannstedt were worth a damn that defense would have improved more then it has, JMHO

[The Cincinnati Kid]

That game against the Redskins....Anomaly...

[muffmonster]

How do you expect to score when your Wood is out of commission for the year?