UFO Found on Ocean Floor?

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Just out of curiosity, is there anyone that is familiar and or has posted in this thread that 100% agrees with 4mer? Like really agree with everything he post about this subject? In other words, anyone else that can honestly say that with so much that's unknown in space, and with so many new galaxies and planets being discovered here and there yet also the millions and more that has not been discovered and so much that will never be discovered......

 

With that being said, can anyone honestly say that there isn't even the slightest possibility that some other intelligent life may be some where in the cosmos out there? Just curious because I have not seen 1 person that really agrees with 4mer to that extent.

 

The people that I have ever came across that really doesn't think aliens exist have always at least admitted that nobody can be 100% absolutely certain due to the obvious facts stated above about so much that is unknown and so much that will ALWAYS be unknown it's unimaginable. Just wondering, thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow.  What are you suggesting?  Conform or be cast out?  Nice.  
 

Isn’t the point of a message board to discuss things on which we agree AND disagree?  
 

I don’t know if anyone on Earth agrees with me 100% on any topic.  I don’t know that any two posters in this thread agree with each other 100%.  
 

There are most certainly people who agree with my assessment on the probability of aliens and I’ve posted several videos in this thread.  Is that enough for me to have your royal approval to keep posting?  Or maybe they aren’t aware that space is like totally big and has lots of galaxies and stuff.

[Patrick Duffy]

42 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Wow.  What are you suggesting?  Conform or be cast out?  Nice.  
 

Isn’t the point of a message board to discuss things on which we agree AND disagree?  
 

I don’t know if anyone on Earth agrees with me 100% on any topic.  I don’t know that any two posters in this thread agree with each other 100%.  
 

There are most certainly people who agree with my assessment on the probability of aliens and I’ve posted several videos in this thread.  Is that enough for me to have your royal approval to keep posting?  Or maybe they aren’t aware that space is like totally big and has lots of galaxies and stuff.

Is that what you got out of my post? Conform or be cast out?  You're a sensitive one......I'm simply curious to know if anyone agrees with everything you have bought to the table in this thread (which isn't much and mostly the so often repeated "math" or "accept math" .

 

What I'm saying is I have had conversations with some who don't believe and that's fine. I can get it to a certain extent. However every single one of them also admitted that it was their opinion that other life doesn't exist, and also admitted that with so much that is unknown, that anything is possible.

 

Speaking for myself, I believe there is more chance that there is than it isn't. And also, I'm willing to admit that it  is also only my opinion and just my  myself, an  average person that's not important (which is what most of us are) have no clue for absolute certain. There may be or there may not be.

 

That is a reasonable conversation to have. You however are not capable of that. Again I tried long ago discussing it with you and it was pointless as with many others that have also tried with you. Why a lot of the time people just ignore your comments, in this particular thread anyways.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Thing is like we don't even understand our own reality. What is the percentage of matter that is dark matter or whatever? And nothing at the quantum level makes any sense. And there's things we don't know about black holes. We don't know how many dimensions there are. Etc. I think it's typical human arrogance that we've seen through the ages to say we know for a fact that life only exists on this planet, similar to we know for a fact the universe revolves around the earth.

 

The only logical thing is to leave the door cracked open and acknowledge hey, there could be something we're missing here that we just have no concept of. I think that to say we know for a lockdown FACT that life only exists here is every bit as wishful thinking and cult-like as any "believer" or any religious group...it's just not logical. "We don't know what we don't know" kind of thing.

[4merper4mer]

50 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

Thing is like we don't even understand our own reality. What is the percentage of matter that is dark matter or whatever? And nothing at the quantum level makes any sense. And there's things we don't know about black holes. We don't know how many dimensions there are. Etc. I think it's typical human arrogance that we've seen through the ages to say we know for a fact that life only exists on this planet, similar to we know for a fact the universe revolves around the earth.

 

The only logical thing is to leave the door cracked open and acknowledge hey, there could be something we're missing here that we just have no concept of. I think that to say we know for a lockdown FACT that life only exists here is every bit as wishful thinking and cult-like as any "believer" or any religious group...it's just not logical. "We don't know what we don't know" kind of thing.

I’ve always qualified that parallel universes, other dimensions and other things are not part of anything I’ve discussed.  The observable universe is the only thing I’ve mentioned.

[Augie]

49 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I’ve always qualified that parallel universes, other dimensions and other things are not part of anything I’ve discussed.  The observable universe is the only thing I’ve mentioned.

 

So, you leave out dark energy and dark matter (approx 95% of the “known” universe), and other dimensions and possible parallel universes. This is starting to sound like there are no “aliens” (whatever that definition is) next to you on the couch in your living room, as far as you know. That is a LOT of qualifiers. 

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was microscopic life on Europa in the oceans below the ice, right in our own solar system. To think we are the only life in the universe is the height of arrogance in my opinion. 

 

We are ignorant about how the universe works, and arrogant if we think or pretend we do know. 

 

 

 

.

Edited March 12, 2021 by Augie

[4merper4mer]

37 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

So, you leave out dark energy and dark matter (approx 95% of the “known” universe), and other dimensions and possible parallel universes. This is starting to sound like there are no “aliens” (whatever that definition is) next to you on the couch in your living room, as far as you know. That is a LOT of qualifiers. 

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was microscopic life on Europa in the oceans below the ice, right in our own solar system. To think we are the only life in the universe is the height of arrogance in my opinion. 

 

We are ignorant about how the universe works, and arrogant if we think or pretend we do know. 

 

 

 

.

I agree on Europa.  I wouldn’t be shocked if there were something there.  I also wouldn’t be shocked if there weren’t.  

 

My assertion has been very consistent as being about intelligent, communicative life in this universe.  It hasn’t changed.  To simplify it further, this started as a UFO thread and there are simply no alien originating UFOs.

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by 4merper4mer

[Augie]

17 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I agree on Europa.  I wouldn’t be shocked if there were something there.  I also wouldn’t be shocked if there weren’t.  

 

My assertion has been very consistent as being about intelligent, communicative life in this universe.  It hasn’t changed.  To simplify it further, this started as a UFO thread and there are simply no alien originating UFOs.

 

 

I don’t think “aliens” can traverse interstellar space or beyond, but then crash in Roswell like drunk teenagers driving home after a kegger. 

 

BUT, if there is microscopic life as close as Europa (call it the dining room in universal space), it’s hard to believe there isn’t something far more advanced elsewhere in the 13.8 billion year old universe. 

 

What did we know just a thousand years ago? They thought they were smart. My mom had a man bring ice to the house. Now? We have all the knowledge of mankind at our fingertips available on the phone in our pocket.  We drive remote control science labs around on Mars. What might we know in a thousand or a million years?

 

 

. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Augie

[LeGOATski]

There's definitely intelligent life out in the universe.

 

Prove me wrong.

[4merper4mer]

11 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I don’t think “aliens” can traverse interstellar space or beyond, but then crash in Roswell like drunk teenagers driving home after a kegger. 

 

BUT, if there is microscopic life as close as Europa (call it the dining room in universal space), it’s hard to believe there isn’t something far more advanced elsewhere in the 13.8 billion year old universe. 

 

What did we know just a thousand years ago? They thought they were smart. My mom had a man bring ice to the house. Now? We have all the knowledge of mankind at our fingertips available on the phone in our pocket.  We drive remote control science labs around on Mars. What might we know in a thousand or a million years?

 

 

. 

I asked Patrick a question above about the most likely initial interstellar travel any advanced species would undertake.  For some reason, he wants no part of it.  If you answer that question, and overlay it with your quote above, where does that lead you?

 

Hint:  My answer to that question is similar to something called Von Neumann probes.  

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

I asked Patrick a question above about the most likely initial interstellar travel any advanced species would undertake.  For some reason, he wants no part of it.  If you answer that question, and overlay it with your quote above, where does that lead you?

 

Hint:  My answer to that question is similar to something called Von Neumann probes.  

 

Why did you just lapse into some cryptic code about a question you asked somebody else? If you want to ask me a question, just ask me. 

 

Without knowing the question, I’ll tell you this: I probably have no way of knowing, because none of us can KNOW what might (or might not) be out there. I’m just not arrogant enough to pretend I could KNOW. 

 

I had to google your little probes. They didn’t invent themselves. We didn’t send human beings outside of our solar system. Our probes might not be self-replicating, but they did not come into creation without intelligent origination. 

[4merper4mer]

53 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Why did you just lapse into some cryptic code about a question you asked somebody else? If you want to ask me a question, just ask me. 

 

Without knowing the question, I’ll tell you this: I probably have no way of knowing, because none of us can KNOW what might (or might not) be out there. I’m just not arrogant enough to pretend I could KNOW. 

 

I had to google your little probes. They didn’t invent themselves. We didn’t send human beings outside of our solar system. Our probes might not be self-replicating, but they did not come into creation without intelligent origination. 

The point is that although we are currently incapable of making self replicating Von Neumann probes, we are almost certainly within 100 years of being able to make them.  The concept seems highly logical, almost inevitable.  It is so much easier than sending a living being or multiple living beings on that kind of trip.  Maybe we evolve to the point where we could send people, but robots are far more likely to be the first step.  Agree?

 

If you dig a little on VN probes, you’ll find that in theory, they could traverse our entire galaxy in roughly 250,000 years.  That means a society, group, or  even an individual that is 250,100 years older than us could have covered the galaxy by now.  If the galaxy is in any way conducive to the common or even exceedingly rare development of intelligent life, we should have already seen them many times over.  250,000 years is almost nothing when compared with the age of the universe.  If intelligent alien life existed, even if it were exceedingly rare, the timelines and math indicate we’d have likely seen these probes.  This doesn’t even dip into the discussion on detection of radio signals and multitudes of other ways we already have to “see” things in space that would indicate intelligence.

[K-9]

13 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

There's definitely intelligent life out in the universe.

 

Prove me wrong.

Please tell me you’re being sarcastic here. 

[Augie]

4 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

The point is that although we are currently incapable of making self replicating Von Neumann probes, we are almost certainly within 100 years of being able to make them.  The concept seems highly logical, almost inevitable.  It is so much easier than sending a living being or multiple living beings on that kind of trip.  Maybe we evolve to the point where we could send people, but robots are far more likely to be the first step.  Agree?

 

If you dig a little on VN probes, you’ll find that in theory, they could traverse our entire galaxy in roughly 250,000 years.  That means a society, group, or  even an individual that is 250,100 years older than us could have covered the galaxy by now.  If the galaxy is in any way conducive to the common or even exceedingly rare development of intelligent life, we should have already seen them many times over.  250,000 years is almost nothing when compared with the age of the universe.  If intelligent alien life existed, even if it were exceedingly rare, the timelines and math indicate we’d have likely seen these probes.  This doesn’t even dip into the discussion on detection of radio signals and multitudes of other ways we already have to “see” things in space that would indicate intelligence.

 

Who said they have to send anything out to our neck of the woods? The universe is kind of a big place.  Also, If they are that intelligent and don’t want us to be aware of them, I’m sure we would not be. 

 

I’m not saying they exist, because I’m aware that there is no way to know for sure. Just like you can’t prove they don’t exist. Again, the universe is pretty darn big. If you think some basic life form is possible next door on Europa, what might possibly exist elsewhere? I’m not arrogant enough to personally believe we must be so absolutely special and unique. 

[LeGOATski]

We'll eventually find a relic of some sort out there in space.

 

We may have already seen the probes. 

 

4 hours ago, K-9 said:

Please tell me you’re being sarcastic here. 

Since you said please.....

[Patrick Duffy]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Who said they have to send anything out to our neck of the woods? The universe is kind of a big place.  Also, If they are that intelligent and don’t want us to be aware of them, I’m sure we would not be. 

 

I’m not saying they exist, because I’m aware that there is no way to know for sure. Just like you can’t prove they don’t exist. Again, the universe is pretty darn big. If you think some basic life form is possible next door on Europa, what might possibly exist elsewhere? I’m not arrogant enough to personally believe we must be so absolutely special and unique. 

Agreed, also always thought it was a no brainer, (and always thought it went without saying), unless you believe the stuff about the government having some of the "beings" and have been working/learning, reverse engineering some of the ships and all that. Which I would also say imo is possible.

 

Anyway, the bold in your post is exactly what I would always say to him (along with other logical posters that attempted a discussion about this with him) , however, he always presents his beliefs, (which are obviously also just his opinion), he speaks as if what he says is 100% FACTS and there's no disputing it. As if he's the only one that knows what no other person on planet Earth knows for 100% certain. (Again, unless one believes the government rumors). In that case certain ones that are high level officials would obviously know something.

 

Anyways with that being said, he wonders why I no longer want any part of discussion with him on this, even though I have told him that's why numerous times that is the reason, along with the one or two word "math/accept math" repeated replies. But anyways, some people are like that I guess, so is what it is.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy

[4merper4mer]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Who said they have to send anything out to our neck of the woods? The universe is kind of a big place.  Also, If they are that intelligent and don’t want us to be aware of them, I’m sure we would not be. 

 

I’m not saying they exist, because I’m aware that there is no way to know for sure. Just like you can’t prove they don’t exist. Again, the universe is pretty darn big. If you think some basic life form is possible next door on Europa, what might possibly exist elsewhere? I’m not arrogant enough to personally believe we must be so absolutely special and unique. 

Nobody said they have to send anything out to our neck of the woods, but it clearly follows logically that these other beings would be interested in exploration.  This is a UFO thread after all.  Further, and more importantly, for VN probes to have gotten here, it would not be necessary that ALL intelligent alien species explored in that highly logical manner, it would simply mean that ONE do so.   Yet we’ve detected nothing.  And VN probes are merely one possible avenue along with radio waves, Dyson spheres, and countless others...but.....nothing.

 

I’ve seen the “maybe they don’t want us to see them” argument too.  This would require that everyone who ever sent a signal to reach the conclusion that Earth should never see it.  After that they would have to chase down every signal they ever sent, and somehow block it.  Keep in mind that those signals would have went out at or near the speed of light in every direction.  This means everyone who sent them would have to master traveling faster than light just to catch their own signals.  None of that remotely passes the smell test.

[Augie]

45 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Nobody said they have to send anything out to our neck of the woods, but it clearly follows logically that these other beings would be interested in exploration.  This is a UFO thread after all.  Further, and more importantly, for VN probes to have gotten here, it would not be necessary that ALL intelligent alien species explored in that highly logical manner, it would simply mean that ONE do so.   Yet we’ve detected nothing.  And VN probes are merely one possible avenue along with radio waves, Dyson spheres, and countless others...but.....nothing.

 

I’ve seen the “maybe they don’t want us to see them” argument too.  This would require that everyone who ever sent a signal to reach the conclusion that Earth should never see it.  After that they would have to chase down every signal they ever sent, and somehow block it.  Keep in mind that those signals would have went out at or near the speed of light in every direction.  This means everyone who sent them would have to master traveling faster than light just to catch their own signals.  None of that remotely passes the smell test.

 

I have a sister-in-law who thinks all of her assumptions and opinions are fact. I don’t listen to her much either. Nice person, just misguided. 

 

There are a lot of things (almost everything, actually) I have never seen that still exist. 

 

I am saying I can’t possibly know for sure. You are saying you can. You’re position is indefensible. Mine is not. 

 

 

.

 

 

 

.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Augie

[Patrick Duffy]

21 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I have a sister-in-law who thinks all of her assumptions and opinions are fact. I don’t listen to her much either. Nice person, just misguided. 

 

There are a lot of things I have never seen that still exist. 

 

 

 

.

Yup, I mean there's so very much that's unknown about the Oceans. So if only very little is known about something on our own planet, then...... you get where I'm going with this lol

Edited March 13, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy

[Warcodered]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Nobody said they have to send anything out to our neck of the woods, but it clearly follows logically that these other beings would be interested in exploration.  This is a UFO thread after all.  Further, and more importantly, for VN probes to have gotten here, it would not be necessary that ALL intelligent alien species explored in that highly logical manner, it would simply mean that ONE do so.   Yet we’ve detected nothing.  And VN probes are merely one possible avenue along with radio waves, Dyson spheres, and countless others...but.....nothing.

 

I’ve seen the “maybe they don’t want us to see them” argument too.  This would require that everyone who ever sent a signal to reach the conclusion that Earth should never see it.  After that they would have to chase down every signal they ever sent, and somehow block it.  Keep in mind that those signals would have went out at or near the speed of light in every direction.  This means everyone who sent them would have to master traveling faster than light just to catch their own signals.  None of that remotely passes the smell test.

That doesn't seem accurate either your saying that they could of easily of explored the entire Galaxy already. But I mean even if that were true what if they did and left already I mean the Earth hasn't been that interesting for most of it's Billions of years. Are you saying they should still be here be here because I mean why and even if they should who says they aren't you don't think we could miss an old defunct probe when we can't even detect all the objects that might hit the Earth? As to the signals we should of potentially received we would both have to be able to detect them and of been looking when they arrived here. Hell our own signals are only a tiny speck in our Galaxy.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

4 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Nobody said they have to send anything out to our neck of the woods, but it clearly follows logically that these other beings would be interested in exploration.  This is a UFO thread after all.  Further, and more importantly, for VN probes to have gotten here, it would not be necessary that ALL intelligent alien species explored in that highly logical manner, it would simply mean that ONE do so.   Yet we’ve detected nothing.  And VN probes are merely one possible avenue along with radio waves, Dyson spheres, and countless others...but.....nothing.

 

I’ve seen the “maybe they don’t want us to see them” argument too.  This would require that everyone who ever sent a signal to reach the conclusion that Earth should never see it.  After that they would have to chase down every signal they ever sent, and somehow block it.  Keep in mind that those signals would have went out at or near the speed of light in every direction.  This means everyone who sent them would have to master traveling faster than light just to catch their own signals.  None of that remotely passes the smell test.

Re: the bolded

 

It could just be one race with tech far above our own that hides/repels these signals without our knowledge. It might seem unlikely but it can't be proven wrong indubitably. To say we know with certainty one way or the other would be to indulge in cult-like wishful thinking rather than sticking to the facts.

Just now, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by 2020 Our Year For Sure

[Philly McButterpants]

Not gonna read through 165 pages to see whether Dark Forest Theory (https://blog.usejournal.com/the-dark-forest-theory-of-the-universe-a52012529e0f) has been raised . . . 

[LeGOATski]

On 3/13/2021 at 6:57 AM, Philly McButterpants said:

Not gonna read through 165 pages to see whether Dark Forest Theory (https://blog.usejournal.com/the-dark-forest-theory-of-the-universe-a52012529e0f) has been raised . . . 

I own the Three Body Problem and The Dark Forest. Very good.

[4merper4mer]

11 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I own the Three Body Problem and The Dark Forest. Very good.

I don’t know what that is but dark forest ham is pretty good.

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

I don’t know what that is but dark forest ham is pretty good.

A couple sci-fi books by Liu Cixin. Part of a trilogy, but I haven't read the third one yet.

[Philly McButterpants]

21 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

I own the Three Body Problem and The Dark Forest. Very good.

 

I'm about halfway through the final book, Death's End. I have really enjoyed this trilogy - Highly recommend Book 3 🤠

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 3/16/2021 at 12:19 AM, 4merper4mer said:

I don’t know what that is but dark forest ham is pretty good.

Black Forest Ham 

[4merper4mer]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:16 PM, Nextmanup said:

I listened to a great podcast last night...Joe Rogan with Avi Loeb, an astronomer/physicist from Harvard.

 

He suggests that Oumuamua, the object that passed by Earth in 2017 may be a technological creation from another civilization.

 

 

 

Except math.

 

Accept math

 

 

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

An ultra-reliable news source like Tucker Carlson on Fox talks about underwater UFOs and not one person posts about it in this thread for almost 4 months (see thread title)? 

 

https://www.thewrap.com/tucker-carlson-talks-underwater-ufos-weve-never-imagined-something-like-that-video/

 

How uninformed can you people be? If this continues, I just may have to go elsewhere for my underwater UFO news.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 hours ago, ICanSleepWhenI'mDead said:

An ultra-reliable news source like Tucker Carlson on Fox talks about underwater UFOs and not one person posts about it in this thread for almost 4 months (see thread title)? 

 

https://www.thewrap.com/tucker-carlson-talks-underwater-ufos-weve-never-imagined-something-like-that-video/

 

How uninformed can you people be? If this continues, I just may have to go elsewhere for my underwater UFO news.

even a blind squirrel 🐿 can find nuts 🌰 

[LeGOATski]

Meanwhile, we can barely get the most basic helicopter drone to fly on Mars....

 

The aliens are winning.

[ChevyVanMiller]

Pentagon confirms sighting of Pyramid-shaped UFO by Navy personnel in San Diego was “real.”

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/business-videos/2021/04/15/navy-pyramid-ufo-video-orig-jm-kj.cnn

[4merper4mer]

Where does Tremaine Edmunds get off wearing #49?  Who does he think he is, Ron Guidry?

 

I just swung by to illogically bash Tremaine Edmunds a little because it looks like this is the only thread on the board in which he hasn’t been illogically bashed yet so I’m guessing it is a rule that every thread must illogically bash him.  I like this thread and don’t want it to be removed for a rules violation.

 

We good mods?

[LeGOATski]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Where does Tremaine Edmunds get off wearing #49?  Who does he think he is, Ron Guidry?

 

I just swung by to illogically bash Tremaine Edmunds a little because it looks like this is the only thread on the board in which he hasn’t been illogically bashed yet so I’m guessing it is a rule that every thread must illogically bash him.  I like this thread and don’t want it to be removed for a rules violation.

 

We good mods?

You don't come in peace. Go back to your homeworld.

[4merper4mer]

Any updates on this?

[ChevyVanMiller]

7 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Any updates on this?

Yes, as I posted earlier for the first time ever the Pentagon has confirmed the existence of UFOs. Furthermore, the aircrafts were over Navy-protected nuclear sites.

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/business-videos/2021/04/15/navy-pyramid-ufo-video-orig-jm-kj.cnn

[LeGOATski]

4 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Yes, as I posted earlier for the first time ever the Pentagon has confirmed the existence of UFOs. Furthermore, the aircrafts were over Navy-protected nuclear sites.

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/business-videos/2021/04/15/navy-pyramid-ufo-video-orig-jm-kj.cnn

"UFO" and "UAP" are ambiguous terms... They've always existed as just things we can't explain and don't have enough evidence to investigate. No doubt that there are some crazy advanced drones out there.

[K-9]

52 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

"UFO" and "UAP" are ambiguous terms... They've always existed as just things we can't explain and don't have enough evidence to investigate. No doubt that there are some crazy advanced drones out there.

Good point. We tend to equate UFOs as “alien” in origin, but there’s a better chance they’re objects made right here on earth that we simply aren’t acquainted with. 

[sherpa]

7 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said:

Yes, as I posted earlier for the first time ever the Pentagon has confirmed the existence of UFOs. Furthermore, the aircrafts were over Navy-protected nuclear sites.

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/videos/business-videos/2021/04/15/navy-pyramid-ufo-video-orig-jm-kj.cnn

 

Where are these Navy protected nuclear sites you mention?

That isn't in the link.

 

 

[LeGOATski]

8 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

Where are these Navy protected nuclear sites you mention?

That isn't in the link.

 

 

Dude...classified

[sherpa]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Dude...classified

 

The claim comes from somewhere.

I'm interested in where it came from and what the actual claim is.