Fairley vs Newton

[Rob T from OP]

Dead last against the RUN. We need a big playmaker on the defensive side of the ball!!! This Draft is loaded with good QBs. Draft one in the second Rd. It all about finding the good one.With the draft history of the past Decade with Tom Modrak here should make all Bills Fans fear of another Draft full of BUSTS!!!!!

[macaroni]

Fairley hasn't dominated by any stretch. He's not a NT and I'm not seeing the lateral moves to slide to DE. Looks like a 4-3 DT to me. Newton sure is big and strong with a big arm. Getting better as the game goes on.

 

I don't agree that he hasn't dominated ..... maybe not this game ... but he has this season, and one of the reasons he hasn't dominated this game is that the Ducks have game planned around him, and who on the Bills D does any team feel they have to game plan around? (by the way while you may feel he is not "dominating" this game you have to admit he is disruptive).

 

I do agree 100% in that he is a 4-3 DT ..... but then again so is Williams, and Kelsey is a much better 4-3 DE than he is a 3-4 OLB doncha think?

[Robb Riddick]

Fairley looks good but he hasn't done enough to surpass Dareus on my board.

 

I like Dareus more as well, I think he will be a better pro. I also wasn't crazy about how Fairley was acting after the game, seemed a little immature and his interview was pretty bad. I know don't judge a book by the cover...but still it put me off a little bit.

[8-8 Forever?]

So far, I am far more impressed with Fairley and am leaning towards wanting him as our first pick overall.

If no rookie salary cap is in place next year, I would trade down and get a second second round pick if possible. None of Auburns players looked all that great last night. Of course, Against Oregons gimmick offense, you got no sense as to any of the defensive guys on auburn. This is why you sign guyslike merriman, if healthy, we know for a fact he can play at the NFL level (at a minimum). Rookies are a crapshoot (Glen Dorsey comes to mind as a near bust) with rare exceptions (Suh, Ngata, ). there are no Suhs or Ngatas in this draft. In fact, there are no sure things in this draft at all. This AJ Green kid is a beanpole. he may have trouble dealing wiht the NFL. All the QBs have noticeable weaknesses, be it mobility or arm or brains. Trade down. Be active in (assuming there is a CBA soon) what will be a huge Free Agency year. I think the Merriman, signing was brilliant. That is not a second tier player in the twilight of his career (a la Stroud, Davis, et al) go bills.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Yeah AJ green should have a lot of problems. He's the same height and weight as randy moss.

 

Green is the best WR to come out of college since calvin johnson.

 

Do some research.

[Matt in KC]

I don't mind Fairley's penalties, and any apparent immaturity. It might just stop him from going #1 and sliding to the Bills.

 

I thought he shed blocks pretty well, and certainly persisted on plays, even run plays away from him. The one criticism I have from last night's game (the first game I've watched) is that he turned his back to the LOS a number of times. I think he did this to shed blocks when he was being held, and it worked pretty well. He was only pushed back a bit while he did this because of his strength, but I remember thinking that wouldn't fly in the NFL. I have unpleasant memories of Tim Anderson constantly wrestling O-linemen with his arse (ineffectively).

[JohnC]

Fairley hasn't dominated by any stretch. He's not a NT and I'm not seeing the lateral moves to slide to DE. Looks like a 4-3 DT to me. Newton sure is big and strong with a big arm. Getting better as the game goes on.

 

Although Newton gets a lot of attention for his scintillating runs what impresses me the most about him is his arm. He has a strong arm, he is accurate and he has a good touch. What more do you want? His leadership skills were demonstrated in a number of come behind games this year, and in last night's championship game he played very well on such a big stage.

 

Oregon was a very good team. They are tremendously quick on both sides of the ball. When they had Newton bottled up during the game he didn't get flustered. He maintained his commposure and got better as the game advanced.

 

The opportunity to get a big time qb doesn't often happen. When you get that opportunity you should seize it. Whether it takes a year or two to get a return on him doesn't mean much because you can say the same thing about all the other positions. The argument that we need an impact player right away didn't hold up with Spiller, Troup or Carrington. The best way for a team to get better is to add talent and then develop it.

Edited January 11, 2011 by JohnC

[stony]

If no rookie salary cap is in place next year, I would trade down and get a second second round pick if possible. None of Auburns players looked all that great last night. Of course, Against Oregons gimmick offense, you got no sense as to any of the defensive guys on auburn. This is why you sign guyslike merriman, if healthy, we know for a fact he can play at the NFL level (at a minimum). Rookies are a crapshoot (Glen Dorsey comes to mind as a near bust) with rare exceptions (Suh, Ngata, ). there are no Suhs or Ngatas in this draft. In fact, there are no sure things in this draft at all. This AJ Green kid is a beanpole. he may have trouble dealing wiht the NFL. All the QBs have noticeable weaknesses, be it mobility or arm or brains. Trade down. Be active in (assuming there is a CBA soon) what will be a huge Free Agency year. I think the Merriman, signing was brilliant. That is not a second tier player in the twilight of his career (a la Stroud, Davis, et al) go bills.

 

Sounds like we should just skip the draft altogether? And considering we're not going to be major players in FA (as you suggest we do), we may as well mail in the entire offseason.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

Well I would NEVER want Haynesworth on the Bills.

 

Maybe my perception is colored by that all-time cheap shot (by Fairley, not Haynesworth) when he ran full speed into the Georgia QB from behind and speared him in the lower back...seconds after the ball had been thrown. That was the game in which he was called for 3 personal fouls.

 

If I knew Fairley could be disciplined to not play like a thug, I'd be all for drafting him. He's a great player.

As long as hed take out Brady like that Id love to have him but watching the little I did not clear that he is as dominate of a DL as I would like but not being a college football follower not sure who else is out there.

[BUFFALOTONE]

Fairley looks good but he hasn't done enough to surpass Dareus on my board.

your board is way off, throw it away.

[QCity]

I think most people don't realize that what they are seeing from Cam this season won't translate to the NFL. Newton plays in a heavily modified version of the spread offense that emphasizes misdirection and short runs until the coverage breaks down in the secondary. While some NFL teams use the spread, Auburn's scheme is rarely seen and only used as a gimmick play. How many times did he line up under center? Not often, unless it was 3rd/4th and inches. When he threw from the pocket (again not often) under pressure he was wildly inaccurate, and could easily have thrown 3 picks in that game if not for dropped balls. People love to compare mobile quarterbacks to Vick, but Newton is much closer to Vince Young with a lesser arm at that.

 

I'm all for drafting a QB that will be calling signals for "10 - 12 years", but this isn't your man. He would be a reach in the second round.

 

Fairly was arguably the best player on the field, and it should be interesting to see how heavily he is scrutinized at the combine and how he responds (if he declares).

[VirginiaMike]

IMO -- Newton did nothing yesterday to justify a 1st round pick. I am hesitant to go with a spread offense QB as I don't think they are close to being prepared to start for an NFL style offense.

Newton should come out into the draft this year because he will be selected in the 1st round by someone and next year he misses 5 games against the sisters of the poor so his stats next year will stink. He also will go against Luck in the draft next year so at best he'd be the #2 qb -- probably lower than that.

 

As far as fairly is concerned -- I think he's a 4-3 DT and a good one. Not sure what the bills will play next year, but if it's not a 4-3 we should pass.

[DrDawkinstein]

 

As far as fairly is concerned -- I think he's a 4-3 DT and a good one. Not sure what the bills will play next year, but if it's not a 4-3 we should pass.

 

Ah yes, pass on the best football player in the draft who happens to play where the Bills lack the most talent, because he might not fit a scheme we run sometimes.

 

Very Jauron-esque thinking. That leads us to a team void of real talent.

 

Take the biggest, meanest, best player available and get him on the field next to Kyle Williams. It wont matter what scheme youre running. Theyll make plays.

 

That being said, Fairley wont be there at 3 anyways...

[CosmicBills]

I went in to last nights game with my eye specifically on both these players. It should be noted that this is the only time I've seen Auburn play all season and I really don't think you can pass judgment on any player based on one game (or one season).

 

That said, Fairley looked like a men amongst boys out there tonight. I would not mind him slipping to #3 one bit. He has the kind of nasty attitude this team has been sorely lacking for a decade. The people here saying he didn't dominate that game weren't paying attention. Everything Oregon did (or didn't do) on offense was because of Fairley. The guy was an animal. And I think Carolina or Denver would be foolish to pass him up. Again, it's just one game so this ain't worth much, but to me he looked as good as Suh did against Texas ...

 

As for Newton, he did some things that impressed me. There's no question he has a rocket arm and surprisingly (to me anyway) good accuracy and touch on his throws. Like others on here have said, I'm not a fan of spread offenses and it looked like a lot of the plays were one read type plays. This is an entirely unfair critique by me because I haven't studied Auburn enough to know their offense or Newton, but it would worry me that it appears he doesn't have to read the defense ...

[BuffaloRebound]

Fairley reminds of an old school defensive lineman in the mold of the Steel Curtain and Purple People Eaters. Big and intimidating. He seems like he'd be able to play end in a 3-4. He was lined up there a lot last night. For a DT, he was making a lot of plays all over the field. Would love to get him but I doubt he lasts to #3.

[djrocks]

I know Fairly is a good player but really he has been left unblocked so many times this game. I want to see him actually shed some blockers.

 

PTR

 

you cant be serious,the guy is an absolute beast. you however need not worry because there is no way fairly will fall to us @ #3,if he is not the first pick then he most definatly will be the second pick. bowers cant tie fairleys jock strap when it comes down to being a great football player.

[Green Lightning]

I don't agree that he hasn't dominated ..... maybe not this game ... but he has this season, and one of the reasons he hasn't dominated this game is that the Ducks have game planned around him, and who on the Bills D does any team feel they have to game plan around? (by the way while you may feel he is not "dominating" this game you have to admit he is disruptive).

 

I do agree 100% in that he is a 4-3 DT ..... but then again so is Williams, and Kelsey is a much better 4-3 DE than he is a 3-4 OLB doncha think?

 

Now that the game is over, I agree he's disruptive and talented. I'm still at at loss on the scheme Vs. talent argument. If Fairley is a 4-3 DT and we're running a 3-4 you have to decide if he can make the switch to DE. He's not a NT. Actually he's like KW. Apparently from what I'm reading, he won't be available at #3 anyway.

[macaroni]

Now that the game is over, I agree he's disruptive and talented. I'm still at at loss on the scheme Vs. talent argument. If Fairley is a 4-3 DT and we're running a 3-4 you have to decide if he can make the switch to DE. He's not a NT. Actually he's like KW. Apparently from what I'm reading, he won't be available at #3 anyway.

 

 

I guess what I was trying to say in a round about way, is that our best defensive player better fits into a 4-3 scheme, we have a player who is just horrid when they tried to convert him from a 4-3 DE to a 3-4 OLB (and was not too bad when playing as a 4-3 DE) and a chance to draft a very VERY disruptive 4-3 DT to play beside Williams ...... who in their right mind still insists on playing a 3-4????

[muggins]

Ah yes, pass on the best football player in the draft who happens to play where the Bills lack the most talent, because he might not fit a scheme we run sometimes.

 

Very Jauron-esque thinking. That leads us to a team void of real talent.

 

Take the biggest, meanest, best player available and get him on the field next to Kyle Williams. It wont matter what scheme youre running. Theyll make plays.

 

That being said, Fairley wont be there at 3 anyways...

Isn't this the kind of thinking that got us another RB in the first round, who had tons less yards than a dozen or so undrafted RBs?

[Koufax]

Come on man, the draft is still 3 1/2 months away. No telling what will happen between now and then. Gabberts may end up being number 1 by then for all we know.

 

+1 A lot will change between now and the draft. We will have the opportunity to draft some great players at #3. We have to wait three and a half months, then we have to wait 20 more minutes to see what Carolina and Denver do, then we can get one of the top 3 talents in the country before waiting a bunch more for training camp.

 

I definitely think Fairley is way ahead of Cam on my draft board, but on just the QB side I like Mallett ahead of Cam too, but don't really like either of them at #3. Take a QB in round 2 if someone Chan likes slides, otherwise wait until 2012.

[K Gun Special]

Ah yes, pass on the best football player in the draft who happens to play where the Bills lack the most talent, because he might not fit a scheme we run sometimes.

 

Very Jauron-esque thinking. That leads us to a team void of real talent.

 

Take the biggest, meanest, best player available and get him on the field next to Kyle Williams. It wont matter what scheme youre running. Theyll make plays.

 

That being said, Fairley wont be there at 3 anyways...

 

 

Jauron thinking is taking a player who doesnt fit the scheme you are running. you dont pick a DT at 3 when you want to play the 3-4 and need a NT.

 

They only played 4 man front bc they didnt have the players. They are transitioning to a 3-4 and that will be their primary defense. If Fairley doesnt fit that scheme you dont take him.

[ajzepp]

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

:lol:

 

 

 

Take the biggest, meanest, best player available and get him on the field next to Kyle Williams. It wont matter what scheme youre running. Theyll make plays.

 

 

hell and yes

[CosmicBills]

With RR taking the Carolina Head Coaching job I'll be shocked if he doesn't take Fairley #1. That sucks.

[Ozymandius]

Newton played poorly. Both QBs did. Maybe the long layoff and slippery field affected these prolific offenses but that game was a mess.

 

I'm intrigued by Newton as a physical specimen with a normal throwing motion (unlike Vince Young or Tebow) but he is a project for sure and dumb. Would not mind if the Bills took a chance on him but would not care if they didn't also.

[DrDawkinstein]

Jauron thinking is taking a player who doesnt fit the scheme you are running. you dont pick a DT at 3 when you want to play the 3-4 and need a NT.

 

They only played 4 man front bc they didnt have the players. They are transitioning to a 3-4 and that will be their primary defense. If Fairley doesnt fit that scheme you dont take him.

 

Players as talented as Fairley fit EVERY scheme. He can play DT in a 4-3, or DE in a 3-4. I'd love to see him in a 3-4 with Williams and Carrington down the line.

 

The last regime didnt think Ngata fit their scheme and they passed. Since then he has proven he can play in ANY scheme.

 

I dont care if you are running a 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, or a 2-5. Put Fairley next to Kyle Williams and let them work.

 

Williams wasnt even supposed to come close to making the transition and he proved that it doesnt matter. As long as you got a big nasty on your DLine, they WILL make plays.

 

Drafting for scheme just puts you in a position to leave talent on the draft board.

 

No team in the league sticks to one defense fulltime anyways.

 

Get the best DLineman possible, and put him on the field. All you need to say is "Sick 'Em!"

Edited January 11, 2011 by DrDankenstein

[ajzepp]

Players as talented as Fairley fit EVERY scheme. He can play DT in a 4-3, or DE in a 3-4. I'd love to see him in a 3-4 with Williams and Carrington down the line.

 

The last regime didnt think Ngata fit their scheme and they passed. Since then he has proven he can play in ANY scheme.

 

I dont care if you are running a 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, or a 2-5. Put Fairley next to Kyle Williams and let them work.

 

Williams wasnt even supposed to come close to making the transition and he proved that it doesnt matter. As long as you got a big nasty on your DLine, they WILL make plays.

 

Drafting for scheme just puts you in a position to leave talent on the draft board.

 

No team in the league sticks to one defense fulltime anyways.

 

Get the best DLineman possible, and put him on the field. All you need to say is "Sick 'Em!"

 

Agreed. Any scheme you run will be crap unless you have play makers. Fairley is such a player. Thankfully, he's not the only one, though...so git'r'done, Buddy!

[DrDawkinstein]

Agreed. Any scheme you run will be crap unless you have play makers. Fairley is such a player. Thankfully, he's not the only one, though...so git'r'done, Buddy!

 

Yep, Im just scared that Fairley is on such another level that Bowers/Dareus/Quinn wont be able to compare. Ive watched a lot of Fairley and Darues all year, and a handful of Bowers... and Fairley has always been the lead pick.

 

I'm worried about taking the "second tier" guys at #3. Not saying that they arent still top talent. But drafting so early, I want THE best!

 

Edit: just looked over some past drafts going as far back as 2000, and I feel a little better. lots of first round DL have made impacts for their teams, even if they were the 5th off the board. very nice.

Edited January 11, 2011 by DrDankenstein

[ajzepp]

Yep, Im just scared that Fairley is on such another level that Bowers/Dareus/Quinn wont be able to compare. Ive watched a lot of Fairley and Darues all year, and a handful of Bowers... and Fairley has always been the lead pick.

 

I'm worried about taking the "second tier" guys at #3. Not saying that they arent still top talent. But drafting so early, I want THE best!

 

Edit: just looked over some past drafts going as far back as 2000, and I feel a little better. lots of first round DL have made impacts for their teams, even if they were the 5th off the board. very nice.

 

Well, if we do happen to get a second tier player at #3, at least that's better than another Maybin/McCargo/Flowers type of miss, lol. But yeah, if we can actually pick a difference maker for our Dline, I think it will make a significant difference on the D. Kyle can't do it alone, although he sure gave it a hell of an effort.

[Green Lightning]

I guess what I was trying to say in a round about way, is that our best defensive player better fits into a 4-3 scheme, we have a player who is just horrid when they tried to convert him from a 4-3 DE to a 3-4 OLB (and was not too bad when playing as a 4-3 DE) and a chance to draft a very VERY disruptive 4-3 DT to play beside Williams ...... who in their right mind still insists on playing a 3-4????

 

Point taken. We need talent and we're short of it. You look at a guy like McCargo and he's the same size as Fairley and you wonder what the Hell the difference is. Fairley looks to be just a pure D lineman and lined up next to KW you have like that.

[Scraps]

Jauron thinking is taking a player who doesnt fit the scheme you are running. you dont pick a DT at 3 when you want to play the 3-4 and need a NT.

 

They only played 4 man front bc they didnt have the players. They are transitioning to a 3-4 and that will be their primary defense. If Fairley doesnt fit that scheme you dont take him.

 

A good coach fits the scheme to the players. Doesn't say much about the Bills as they constantly change schemes regardless of the players they have. :wallbash:

Edited January 11, 2011 by Scraps

[reddogblitz]

Jauron thinking is taking a player who doesnt fit the scheme you are running. you dont pick a DT at 3 when you want to play the 3-4 and need a NT.

 

They only played 4 man front bc they didnt have the players. They are transitioning to a 3-4 and that will be their primary defense. If Fairley doesnt fit that scheme you dont take him.

If you can get Nick you put him next to Kyle in the middle and play a 4-3 and stop the run for a change. It's not rocket science. We're not married to the 3-4.

[Bufcomments]

If I were the Bills and they had a chance at Fairly AND Matthews I take both of them in a heartbeat.

 

I don't care if Fairly cheap shots Brady...heck I for one would love to see it happen lol

 

We need some talent at DT and I don't care if a DT has some issues, he's got what I want in a DT ...a mean ass attitude and a taste for QB's.

 

Speaking of QB's Newton is not a top ten pick...but somebody will take a chance on him in the first round.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

I know Fairly is a good player but really he has been left unblocked so many times this game. I want to see him actually shed some blockers.

 

PTR

I saw this also. When there was someone in front of him, he didn`t look so good.

[KD in CA]

I saw this also. When there was someone in front of him, he didn`t look so good.

 

 

I disagree with that. He made several plays other than the two early ones where they didn't block him. There was the play where he powered through a double team and hammered the RB for a loss. And the sack when he was blocked one and one and tore right through the guy.

[Maddog69]

I saw a lot of comments from sports writers (like Jason Whitlock and Jay Glazer) stating that Fairley needs a ton of work on technique.

They said he comes out of his stances too high and would get eaten alive by NFL linemen.

[reddogblitz]

He did get 2 sacks in the first half where he was unblocked. In the second half he made some nice plays. Wasn't as dominating as I had hoped for. Definitely saw him take some plays off. He's no Bruce or Aaron Schobel Randy White or Minister of Defense, but I'd probably still take him.

Edited January 11, 2011 by reddogblitz

[Watchin_at_Jimmys]

I've seen three deep balls where the WR was completely wide open. One for a score, one down to the ten and one badly overthrown. Other than that, he's completed one medium range pass over about 8 yards downfield -- the first TD which was also a wide open WR sitting down in a zone who then ran it in. Every other play he's either looked to run first or dump the ball off and his guys get good RAC against an overmatched defense that can't pressure the QB or maintain coverage.

 

And that's all fine and well and they're going to win a championship and he deserves his Heisman Trophy and place on the lists of best seasons by a college quarterback. But to think this style/skill set is vastly different from every other 'dual-threat' college QB from the last 30 years is fantasy. Is he really going to run that QB draw for 20 yards on 3d and 12 and keep the drive going in the NFL? How many times is a team going to let him use his 6'6' 250 to pound into the line for a few yards? I don't think too many if they want a healthy QB (especially if he can't protect the ball any better than that).

 

I've seen nothing tonight to make me think this guy should be a high draft pick.

 

Full disclosure - I'm a first year AU fan. I have seen all their games this year (my son is a freshman there). I'm also a lifelong Bills fan, going all the way back to the Rockpile in 1960.

 

Cam has been spectacular many times this season, but last night was not one of them. While good, AU should have had 3 more TDs if he had been accurate. That's the most I've seen hime miss wide open receivers - could wonder if his back injury was an issue. He still might be great as a pro, but if anyone had a foolproof way to evaluate whether a QB could be a star playing the game at NFL speed, just from looking at college performance and the Combine, they could write their own ticket. I think Cam is too much of a gamble.

 

Nick, on the other hand, has shown again and again this year that he is almost unblockable, unless you double or triple him - just what we need either in the middle at 3-4 or DT if we go back to 4-3. So the Bills should grab him if he's available at 3. While they are at it, they should get Ted Roof as DC. Love to see how he would scheme against Brady and the rest.