New Iphone can do everything but make phone calls

[stevestojan]

Question for you Verizon folks... do you really thing their network will *not* have problems if they get to sell the iPhone?

 

Let me be clear. Are you implying that the network issue is due to VOLUME of users rather than lack of towers?

[DrDawkinstein]

Let me be clear. Are you implying that the network issue is due to VOLUME of users rather than lack of towers?

 

that is what AT&T has blamed the network issues on. they have publicly stated that their network was not ready for the amount of stress and demand the 3g iphone users put on it.

 

article from the time of the 3gs launch talks about the data usage:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2009-06-...e-att-3gs_N.htm

[Dante]

So you're the guy who bought a Zune?

 

I have an XBox. Live does nothing for me because I don't feel like playing video games with strangers. Obviously it's been successful. So yes, it's working out. Ask Sony or Nintendo (or Sega or Atari or Coleco) how the wind blows in gaming though. Being #1 is fleeting in the console market.

As a objective consumer I do get a certain satisfaction knowing I have a superior product to 90% of the clones out there. Never have really thought that popularity was synonymous with quality. Not saying Ipod and Itunes aren't decent. But kinda bland. You can have it

As far as Nintendo, Sega Coleco? They didn't have the online infrastructure supporting it like XBox does with Live. If Microsoft does get overtaken by some other outfit(and for sure it could happen) I don't think it will happen any time soon. Certainly not going to be a "fleeting" dominance by Microsoft.

[stevestojan]

that is what AT&T has blamed the network issues on. they have publicly stated that their network was not ready for the amount of stress and demand the 3g iphone users put on it.

 

article from the time of the 3gs launch talks about the data usage:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2009-06-...e-att-3gs_N.htm

 

92 Million VZW customers

87 Million ATT customers

 

VZW is already handling more customers. I don't get the argument. Just build a better network AT&T. I know, easier said than done, but VZW has already done it.

[DrDawkinstein]

92 Million VZW customers

87 Million ATT customers

 

VZW is already handling more customers. I don't get the argument. Just build a better network AT&T. I know, easier said than done, but VZW has already done it.

 

i agree totally. dont get me wrong, i HATE AT&T. worst cell service i've ever had. and the worst part is i left verizon for it since work supplies my phone (and we're a Mac shop).

 

whatever the reason is for it, the point is that AT&T has to build a better network.

 

now, i am interested to see what the ship jumpers would do to Verizon's network if/when they ever release a Verizon iPhone and if a million of users were to switch networks. im hoping it happens for no other reason than to free up space on a network im locked into for the next 2 years. whether it effects Verizon's service or not, i dont really care either way, but it would be a good experiment to get better insight into to the state of the two networks.

[Chilly]

92 Million VZW customers

87 Million ATT customers

 

VZW is already handling more customers. I don't get the argument. Just build a better network AT&T. I know, easier said than done, but VZW has already done it.

 

You have to dive much deeper than those numbers to see what's really going on.

 

 

AT&T has by far the most data devices of any carrier, even if they have less total subscribers after the Alltell-Verizon merger. From the numbers I've seen, AT&T has about 50% of all US Smartphones on its network.

 

AT&T's problems are multifaceted:

 

- They built their network to be flexible, at the cost of needing significantly more equipment. To give you an idea, AT&T needs 2/3rds more equipment to hit the same capacity levels that Verizon does. It allows AT&T to push more services through (voice and data at the same time, for example, which you can't do on other networks), but it hurts capacity. Verizon can stuff way more capacity into the same places.

 

- In cities like San Fransisco and New York City, there's only so many places that can be used for cell towers. There's all sorts of government/economic/etc restrictions in place that keep AT&T from simply building more cell towers, which would be the quick and easy answer. This is one of the reasons why AT&T is having to get creative with GSM bands in NYC - they recently enabled 850 GSM to augment the normal 1900, and the recent introduction of Microcells. It's much less of a problem in other places (like Texas) where land is cheap, there's plenty of it, and there are hardly any restrictions on building cell towers. It's one of the reasons why I don't have any probs with AT&T.

 

- iPhone's really do use a ton more capacity than a regular phone (5x-10x more than other smartphones depending on who you ask). In some of the cities really experiencing problems, the iPhone ownership rate is enormous.

 

- AT&T has more smartphones than any other carrier.

 

Combine all that together, and you have the recipe for problems in certain areas.

 

It's a ****ty situation in many areas, and one that AT&T has undoubtedly brought upon themselves by the way they designed their network, the phones they chose, and how they've oversold their capacity.

 

However, it's not nearly as simple as "Just go build a better network! Verizon has one and they have even more subscribers!"

[Fezmid]

Consumer Reports does not recommend the iPhone4 due to the reception issue.

 

http://www.startribune.com/science/9825611...D3aPc:_Yyc:aUUI

[stevestojan]

You have to dive much deeper than those numbers to see what's really going on.

 

 

AT&T has by far the most data devices of any carrier, even if they have less total subscribers after the Alltell-Verizon merger. From the numbers I've seen, AT&T has about 50% of all US Smartphones on its network.

 

AT&T's problems are multifaceted:

 

- They built their network to be flexible, at the cost of needing significantly more equipment. To give you an idea, AT&T needs 2/3rds more equipment to hit the same capacity levels that Verizon does. It allows AT&T to push more services through (voice and data at the same time, for example, which you can't do on other networks), but it hurts capacity. Verizon can stuff way more capacity into the same places.

 

- In cities like San Fransisco and New York City, there's only so many places that can be used for cell towers. There's all sorts of government/economic/etc restrictions in place that keep AT&T from simply building more cell towers, which would be the quick and easy answer. This is one of the reasons why AT&T is having to get creative with GSM bands in NYC - they recently enabled 850 GSM to augment the normal 1900, and the recent introduction of Microcells. It's much less of a problem in other places (like Texas) where land is cheap, there's plenty of it, and there are hardly any restrictions on building cell towers. It's one of the reasons why I don't have any probs with AT&T.

 

- iPhone's really do use a ton more capacity than a regular phone (5x-10x more than other smartphones depending on who you ask). In some of the cities really experiencing problems, the iPhone ownership rate is enormous.

 

- AT&T has more smartphones than any other carrier.

 

Combine all that together, and you have the recipe for problems in certain areas.

 

It's a ****ty situation in many areas, and one that AT&T has undoubtedly brought upon themselves by the way they designed their network, the phones they chose, and how they've oversold their capacity.

 

However, it's not nearly as simple as "Just go build a better network! Verizon has one and they have even more subscribers!"

 

Then here's my problem with that. If they know its too much data making reception ****ty, why not immediately stop selling smartphones, which you know will cause more network deterioration, until the have more capacity? Wouldn't that be a responsible thing to do? It would be like a cable company realizing that for every new subscriber it gets, the surrounding houses lose a tiny bit of their reception quality and continuing to hook up new TVs.

[Fezmid]

Then here's my problem with that. If they know its too much data making reception ****ty, why not immediately stop selling smartphones, which you know will cause more network deterioration, until the have more capacity? Wouldn't that be a responsible thing to do? It would be like a cable company realizing that for every new subscriber it gets, the surrounding houses lose a tiny bit of their reception quality and continuing to hook up new TVs.

 

Cable companies do that with internet access... It was especially bad ~7-10 years ago. One of the big advantages to DSL was that you had your own dedicated circuit to the CO.

[GG]

Then here's my problem with that. If they know its too much data making reception ****ty, why not immediately stop selling smartphones, which you know will cause more network deterioration, until the have more capacity? Wouldn't that be a responsible thing to do? It would be like a cable company realizing that for every new subscriber it gets, the surrounding houses lose a tiny bit of their reception quality and continuing to hook up new TVs.

 

A company is supposed to stop selling a product that people line up days in advance for? That's the responsible thing to do?

[stevestojan]

A company is supposed to stop selling a product that people line up days in advance for? That's the responsible thing to do?

 

If, by continuing to sell said item, it takes away the usability of that item from your previous customers, yes.

[ExiledInIllinois]

If, by continuing to sell said item, it takes away the usability of that item from your previous customers, yes.

 

Damn commie!

[Heels20X6]

Apparently, a recall seems inevitable now...

 

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/consumer-r...inevitable/7554

 

So goes some of the shine of the Apple....

[stevestojan]

Apparently, a recall seems inevitable now...

 

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/consumer-r...inevitable/7554

 

So goes some of the shine of the Apple....

 

Since they are the pioneers of everything tech (I say with sarcasm, however typing this from my macbook), apple should pioneer TESTING THEIR EQUIPMENT before putting it on the shelves.

 

Leave it to apple to figure out a way to call beta testings (or even lab testing) something they pioneered with iPhone5.

[Corp000085]

I love Apple products, with the primary reason being that they are known for quality products that "just work". They've responded very poorly to this since the phone was released (and presumably before it was released...) I don't own an iPhone 4, but my dad does and hasn't had any issues with it. I am very interested to see how their PR dept. and designers save themselves from this. As an apple guy, I like things like this to happen. This will only strengthen the company in the long run.

[bills_fan]

My company recently switched from T-Mobile to AT&T. With T-Mobile, everyone had a Blackberry Pearl. As part of the switch, everyone in the company had a choice of getting an iPhone or a Blackberry Bold.

 

Almost everyone I've talked to who took the iPhone is wishing that they had taken the Bold...

 

to be fair, they say that the non-work stuff is great - all of the apps, web browsing, etc. But as a work tool, they hate it compared to the Blackberry - calls drop, and email integration with Exchange sucks.

 

But everyone says it's a neat toy.

 

 

Hate the BB Pearl flipphone. That was my personal phone for 6 months. Battery would not keep a charge for more than 12 hours. Called TMobile, battery was under warranty for only 3 months. Ended up getting a new phone from TMobile customer retention (yes, it went that far) for $25. Got the Nokia 3711 and love it. Only use BB for work..the Bold. Seems OK. I refuse to switch to AT&T so, no IPhone option.

[Fezmid]

Hate the BB Pearl flipphone. That was my personal phone for 6 months. Battery would not keep a charge for more than 12 hours. Called TMobile, battery was under warranty for only 3 months. Ended up getting a new phone from TMobile customer retention (yes, it went that far) for $25. Got the Nokia 3711 and love it. Only use BB for work..the Bold. Seems OK. I refuse to switch to AT&T so, no IPhone option.

 

Never realized BB had a Pearl flipphone. We had the non-flip version. Mine could go nearly an entire weekend without charging, so not sure if it's the phone (flip was different somehow?) or the battery that was your issue.

 

I wasn't a huge fan of the Pearl, mainly because the browser sucked. The Bold is pretty cool though.

[NoSaint]

Then here's my problem with that. If they know its too much data making reception ****ty, why not immediately stop selling smartphones, which you know will cause more network deterioration, until the have more capacity? Wouldn't that be a responsible thing to do? It would be like a cable company realizing that for every new subscriber it gets, the surrounding houses lose a tiny bit of their reception quality and continuing to hook up new TVs.

 

And here lies the problem with that -- cable lines are stationary. I can drive/fly/walk my cell phone into any city I want. Likewise I can I can have one shipped to me from wherever I want. Where does the line fall? I get terrible service in the superdome during saints games, or during special events in the city. Does that mean no more iPhones in new Orleans? If it does, do you stop selling them nationally? What about the people in areas with no problems? At this point most people know the trade off with AT&T - for some it's inconvenient, but worth it.

 

 

What they are doing in some cities is capping data speeds, which is a much more realistic and feasible short term answer to the problem you have with there networks.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Here are my mobile phones:

 

Hi-tech Eric

 

I am upgrading to this when my contract is up!

 

[DrDawkinstein]

wow, surprised nothing has been posted about the big Apple press conference today.

 

here is engadget's report:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/16/live-fr...ess-conference/

 

bottom line:

-they brought up a bunch of other popular phones and showed that they all have antenna/reception flaws, and that this whole thing was overblown because of the popularity of the phone and company.

-everyone who has an iPhone 4 gets a free bumper, or credit for another case.

-OR you can return your phone for a full refund and no restocking fee. AND a refund/cancellation of your AT&T contract.

 

everything sounds pretty fair

[Malazan]

if you're using the see and say of phones then you should expect that level of service.

[The Dean]

wow, surprised nothing has been posted about the big Apple press conference today.

 

here is engadget's report:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/16/live-fr...ess-conference/

 

bottom line:

-they brought up a bunch of other popular phones and showed that they all have antenna/reception flaws, and that this whole thing was overblown because of the popularity of the phone and company.

-everyone who has an iPhone 4 gets a free bumper, or credit for another case.

-OR you can return your phone for a full refund and no restocking fee. AND a refund/cancellation of your AT&T contract.

 

everything sounds pretty fair

 

 

 

Apple is simply experiencing the other side of the proverbial sword. They have thrived primarily on image (some deserved, some not) and their image is now getting hit (partially unfairly, perhaps).

[ExiledInIllinois]

Apple is simply experiencing the other side of the proverbial sword. They have thrived primarily on image (some deserved, some not) and their image is now getting hit (partially unfairly, perhaps).

 

 

That is all I have been saying... Same thing with Toyota.

[Lurker]

Apple is simply experiencing the other side of the proverbial sword. They have thrived primarily on image (some deserved, some not) and their image is now getting hit (partially unfairly, perhaps).

IMO, a lot has to do with the negative psychology that seems to permeate all discourse today as a byproduct of the Great Recession / Anemic Recovery.

 

Stated another way, everyone loves to just B word, B word, B word....about anything and everything.

 

(I thought Jobs handled today's press conference pretty well, BTW)

[Malazan]

IMO, a lot has to do with the negative psychology that seems to permeate all discourse today as a byproduct of the Great Recession / Anemic Recovery.

 

Stated another way, everyone loves to just B word, B word, B word....about anything and everything.

 

(I thought Jobs handled today's press conference pretty well, BTW)

 

Seriously, if they just wrap themselves in tin foil and stand at a 74 degree angle then they can make calls just fine. People just want to complain though.

[NoSaint]

Seriously, if they just wrap themselves in tin foil and stand at a 74 degree angle then they can make calls just fine. People just want to complain though.

 

How many people don't use cases? Even before the issue -- everyone has some sort of case, and that ends the issue.... Why is that so upsetting?

[Fezmid]

How many people don't use cases? Even before the issue -- everyone has some sort of case, and that ends the issue.... Why is that so upsetting?

 

I don't know about the iPhone specifically, but I've never used a case for any of my phones.

[Dan]

How many people don't use cases? Even before the issue -- everyone has some sort of case, and that ends the issue.... Why is that so upsetting?

I don't use a case for my phone (or iPod).

 

I never quite understood the concept of buying a nice, pretty phone that's slim and lightweight and then covering it in some big, clunky case?

[NoSaint]

Sorry - maybe its just me but literally every person I know with an iphone uses a case. Its a real expensive phone to replace if your not getting the upgrade or initial sign on price - so adding a slim, often styled case seems pretty much like a no brainer.

[The Dean]

I don't know about the iPhone specifically, but I've never used a case for any of my phones.

 

 

Never EVER have I used a case. The thought that I'd have to in order to make a phone work properly is stupid, IMO

[Corp000085]

I don't use a case for my phone (or iPod).

 

I never quite understood the concept of buying a nice, pretty phone that's slim and lightweight and then covering it in some big, clunky case?

 

 

I have a case for my droid. The droid is a beast to begin with, and the case makes it fatter, but the case is what allows the phone to work with the belt holster. I never EVER put my phone in my pocket, so the depth of the device has no bearing on me anyways. My phone is either holstered to my belt or in my car somewhere.

[NoSaint]

I'm just curious -- ive noticed the big apple bashers tend to have never owned apple products or used them really. Of those that are feeling upset about the design, how many own a new i4? I have a friend who has been posting articles bashing apple on his fb near daily for weeks and when I bumped into him he asked to see the phone cause he had never tried one -- seems like its silly to waste energy bashing a product you haven't tried and don't want....

 

For the sake of sharing: Personally, I do, I love it, have a slim case that looks really good on the phone and no reception issues.

[Dan]

I have a case for my droid. The droid is a beast to begin with, and the case makes it fatter, but the case is what allows the phone to work with the belt holster. I never EVER put my phone in my pocket, so the depth of the device has no bearing on me anyways. My phone is either holstered to my belt or in my car somewhere.

That makes sense, if you need the case for how you choose to use the phone. I, on the other hand, keep my phone in my pocket. Never on my belt.

 

But, if you have to have a case just to make it work. No way. And they shouldn't just assume everyone has/wants a case anyway, so no big deal.

 

To answer NoSaint: I don't have an iPhone, never have. But, not necessarily by choice. ATT service is all but non-existent in many areas I travel. I enjoy apple products and would love one, but until I move or it becomes useable with other carriers, I'll wait. Although, I must say; I use a phone... well for a phone, first and fore most. So, this latest debacle will make me think twice in the future.

 

I've already been saying for years (since I upgraded from a basic Nokia phone with little antenna that you could pull up) that phone makers keep adding more bells and whistles and forget the phone part. The cheaper the phone, the better the reception, in my limited experience.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Again... Anybody find it funny that Apple has aligned with AT&T?

[John Adams]

Again... Anybody find it funny that Apple has aligned with AT&T?

 

They made the best deal. Verizon didn't.

 

The other carriers will get their chance at the iPhone soon, and you'll see AT&T's service improve, while companies like Verizon start to see the burden of carrying such a popular phone.

[Fezmid]

They made the best deal. Verizon didn't.

 

Which is funny that I don't see much venom being launched at Apple for doing this, but read the threads about Sunday Ticket/DirecTV and some people go ballistic.

 

Same concept.

[DrDawkinstein]

They made the best deal. Verizon didn't.

 

The other carriers will get their chance at the iPhone soon, and you'll see AT&T's service improve, while companies like Verizon start to see the burden of carrying such a popular phone.

 

It wasnt only that AT&T made the best deal as much as they HAD to make the best deal. At the time of both the original negotiations AND the renewal Apple had AT&T bent over a barrel. The iPhone was AT&T's only real smart phone in their entire line. If AT&T lost the exclusivity rights, they'd take a huuuuge loss because they would have nothing unique to offer that customers couldn't get elsewhere (and with better functionality). Apple stuck with AT&T because they were able to stick it to AT&T.

 

For every iPhone user on the network, AT&T pays Apple $8 EACH MONTH. With all of the millions of iPhones that have been sold, think about how much Apple brings in every month from that deal. Apple would never get that from any other carrier. Even if the network sucks, no smart business man will walk away from that deal.

[Chilly]

It wasnt only that AT&T made the best deal as much as they HAD to make the best deal. At the time of both the original negotiations AND the renewal Apple had AT&T bent over a barrel. The iPhone was AT&T's only real smart phone in their entire line. If AT&T lost the exclusivity rights, they'd take a huuuuge loss because they would have nothing unique to offer that customers couldn't get elsewhere (and with better functionality). Apple stuck with AT&T because they were able to stick it to AT&T.

 

For every iPhone user on the network, AT&T pays Apple $8 EACH MONTH. With all of the millions of iPhones that have been sold, think about how much Apple brings in every month from that deal. Apple would never get that from any other carrier. Even if the network sucks, no smart business man will walk away from that deal.

 

The iPhone was AT&T's only real smart phone? I guess all those Blackberries and Winmo phones don't count, huh.

 

And the iPhone was pretty much the only real "exclusive" platform. Blackberry & Windows Mobile worked with every provider.

[Nanker]

Verizon's is a CDMA network.

The iPhones are GSM.

AT&T invested in GSM technology.

Verizon hasn't - till now.

When the V iPhone hits the market next year, it'll be a GSM model.

Verizon's GSM network will suck about as badly as AT&T's.

[John Adams]

Hardly appears unique to Apple. Just checked a few of them but they were all real. I guess iPhone gets noticed because it's the big boy. Meanwhile, it appears to happen to almost all phones.

 

 

 

* Samsung I9000 Galaxy S:

 

* HTC Evo Signal Attenuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pj2YBYTbag

 

* Samsung Galaxy 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

 

* Samsung Galaxy 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCQdYtPihg

 

* Droid Incredible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk

 

* Droid Incredible (With Network Extender in Room): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEQH...eature=related

 

* Nexus One:

 

* Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA

 

* Nexus One: http://posterous.com/getfile/files.p...n_-_iPhone.m4v

 

* Nexus One (after Google's update to correct):

 

* Nexus One:

 

* Android G1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDaxhjUs9M

 

* "Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up": http://www.google.com/support/forum/...9184c33e&hl=en

 

* BB Bold 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LWzVInwd4w

 

* BB Storm:

 

* BB Bold 9700:

 

* BB bold 9000: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAiKKiNlZ5g

 

* BB Tour:

 

* BB Curve:

 

* BB Curve 8900: