folz

I still can't understand why anyone would want Cutler...

I think the discrepancy is between Bills fans in the Buffalo area and Bills fans in the Rochester/Syracuse area. Growing up in Rochester, you root for Buffalo Bills football and Syracuse Basketball...they are Rochester's unofficial or borrowed home teams...and that Cuse game was awesome last night..."let's go Orange", but maybe Buffalonians don't feel the same affinity to the Orangemen. Now living in New York City, I have had this debate with a lot of New Yorkers...and my perspective is that Upstate New York is from north of Yonkers to say Albany and Saratoga Springs...Northern New York is the Adirondack region and North...Central New York is say Schenectedy, Utica, Rome, Oneida...and from Syracuse west is Western New York, cause that is where the eastern shore of Ontario cuts the state--creates the part of New York that sticks out to the west... but maybe its all just a matter of perspective as to where you grew up or currently live.

Seriously, how many times in a season does a QB throw a ball more than 50 yds in the air? Even the best QBs with cannon arms? Most bombs are probably 40-50yds in the air and then the WR running 10-25 or more yards into the endzone. You're on your own 35 yard line, the QB heaves the ball, the wide receiver catches it in stride at the 15 yard line and runs it in for a touchdown. (50 yards in the air) How often is a QB going to have to do more than that? I'm not saying arm strength isn't a benefit, but as others have said, I think arm strength is over-rated as a judge of NFL QBs and if Trent can throw a 49 yard pass that is on the money and is out in front of the receiver so he can catch it in stride (as seen in the video) then his arm strength is good enough to get it done in the NFL. Whether all of the other intangibles come in to place for TE to become a very good NFL QB...well, that's what we'll be watching for this season.

I'm actually surprised that so many people think he's a lock. I'd say he has a chance but in no way is a lock. He's been playing amazing and the way he handled the blitz and got the ball out to his receivers on the run today was impressive, but by no means has he single handedly turned the Cardinals around. Right now he has imo the best receiver in the NFL and when not injured probably the 3rd or 4th best receiver as well. Their defense has also played some great ball and they have a head coach in his second season. Somehow, I think the coaches must have had something to do with this turn around as well. Alot went into the Cards being where they are, not just Warner (who I do agree is a big part of it though). Warner does not rank in the top 20 all time for completions, yards, or TDs. I just have to agree with gus2378, I don't think 4 great seasons is necessarily enough to get in the HOF...It seems like to get into the Hall you have to have at least one of three things: top (all-time) stats, consistently good play over a long career, and/or you changed the game in some significant way. I don't think Warner, right now, meets any of that criteria. Superbowls definitely help and hurt candidates, but I don't think going to 3 Superbowls automatically makes you a lock. Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Phil Simms, and Jim Plunkett were all Superbowl MVPs and Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, and Jim McMahon all also won Superbowls...but I don't see any of those guys making the Hall...there are only 29 QBs in the HOF from the entire history of the NFL...I've been watching football since the mid-1970s and in those 30+ years only 12 QBs were considered HOF material...is Warner an excellent QB, yes, but is he in that company? I'm not so sure.

Since we didn't get any (probably needed) changes in the front office or coaching staff, here is my list of needs for 2009: (In order of importance...flame away) 1. Center (The guy touches the ball every offensive play, he makes all the line calls, he anchors the line...just ask any QB how important the center is to the offense. Another reason for Center being first is that this may be one of the hardest ones to get, there aren't a lot of great centers running around) 2. Turk needs to throw out what's left of the Fairchild/Jauron play-not-to-lose offense and come up with a more aggressive offense that uses the talent we got (Lynch, Jackson, Evans), and he needs to stand up to Jauron when he wants to be too conservative, without being stupid of course (see The last Jets game). Then we just have to hope he becomes a good coordinator, now that he has a year of experience under his belt. [i think Jauron's biggest weakness as a head coach is not being able to choose good offensive coordinators and/or handcuffing them to a conservative game plan.] 3. I debated between whether this should be 3 or 4, but I'll go with the pass rushing DE 3rd. 4. Almost was #3, but we do need to get a top strength and conditioning coordinator (Mularkey may have done more damage to our team than Ralph or Donahoe by canning Rusty...imho one of the biggest loses since losing Polian--including player loses). 5. As much as my heart might say, yeah trade Jason "I play for the Pro Bowl" Peters, we need to sign him soon enough to make sure he participates in all off season training and is relatively happy. (Maybe this is too low, but I'm still mad about his hold out and I think they'll pay him, but if you're gonna do it for gods sake do it soon and get it over with) 6. Pass catching TE. Nuff said. Actually I need to say one more thing: Please Release Royal! 7. OLB...would go higher if we don't retain Crowell (not to say I'm sold on him or Mitchell, for that matter, but we could probably get by with them). 8. Perry Fewell also needs to step up and instill an aggressive nature in his Defensive players. Jauron doesn't seem like he could ever instill that killer instinct in others, so Perry has to step up and get his guys fired up every game, give them a swagger and an attitude. Play the strict dad/bad cop to Jauron's grandfatherly/good cop. 9. Experienced back-up QB. Of course there are other areas we could upgrade or improve depth, but, I think if the Bills accomplished most of those items, not saying they will, then Jauron could be a successful coach next year. So, probably the biggest question in my mind is can and will Turk come up with and call a better, more aggressive offensive plan (and will Jauron allow it)? [P.S. Unfortunately, I'm not holding my breath for the strength and conditioning coach because they probably won't make a change.]

I was a supporter of Royal until today... I agreed that we needed to upgrade the position, but I didn't think he was as bad as most on here thought..."he had a few miscues here and there, but"...well, no more excuses after today's performance. For as good of a blocker as he is supposed to be, he hasn't seemed to help the run game, and in passing situations, if we can't send him out for a pass anymore (which we shouldn't) but use him just for pass blocking, then it means one less thing for the defense to worry about because they know he's not a threat to run a pass route. I don't blame Royal for today's loss, but I did lose faith in him coming through in a clutch situation when the team needs him. So let's see what Schouman and Fine can do...

Jax supposedly has a great directional kicker...I'm just guessing like everyone else, but I assume it was in case the Jags decided to kick away from Terrence. Without seeing Fred there, we might have caught them by surprise as Freddy would have jumped up fielded the kick and taken off...I'm sure the blockers were prepared to block either direction.

Just got back to this post...Thanks Philster and 34-78-83!

Does anyone know where to go to find the after game player interviews? The official Bills site used to have an audio section, but it doesn't look like they have it anymore. And they only have video interviews of jauron and Edwards. Does one of the local radio stations archive the interviews? Thanks

12 team/IDP league... I took Lee Evans in the 5th round, Donte in the 10th, and Trent in the 14th (to be my backup QB) Lynch was long gone, although I would have loved to draft him.

http://www.fftoolbox.com/index.cfm http://www.fftoday.com/rankings/index.html

lol...the lyrics fit pretty well... I just responded to you in another post about JP and in relation to that post I think the following is appropriate as well... Buffalo Nation: "What's the buzz, tell me what's happening; what's the buzz tell me what's happening."

Yeah, but usually those other players we blast either end up traded, payed, or they suck it up and come in to their team and play. Either way, they are playing in week 1. Even if Jason comes back tomorrow, he probably wouldn't be playing this Sunday, with no reps in the new offense, and lost time on the weeks preparation, plus it would mean Walker would have to move back to RT after preparing for LT and who knows what it would do to any continuity on the line. At this point, I wish he had run his big mouth, at least we would know what is going on.

Jabari worked against Moss and Owens last year with success...so I think he can hold his own in the league...

Just out of curiousity I checked out what Marv's record was after 117 NFL games...it happened 5 games into the 1989 regular season...the Bills were 3 and 2 at the time...yes, they were coming off a 12-4 season in '88 but in that previous season the Bills closed it out by losing 3 of their last 4 games and the Harmon drop in Cleaveland playoff loss. That '88 squad was not the no-huddle K-gun offense team yet, remember Norwood was the NFL point leader that year. A lot of close low-scoring games won by 3 or 6 points. Then they start out '89 at 3-2. Sure there was a lot of hope for the team, but at that time, '88 could have been an aberration (like Jauron's 13-3 year with the Bears seems), not the start of the Super Bowl years. Marv's record after 117 NFL games was 55 wins 62 losses for a 47% winning pct As I've said in other posts, my fear with Jauron is always his poor choices of offensive coordinators...and if Turk doesn't come through this year, then I'll definitely question Jauron's ability to take a team farther...feeling he hasn't learned from his mistakes on the offensive side of the ball. But I definitely think he has earned this upcoming year to prove himself with how the team performed and persevered last year.

I didn't see this posted yet...sorry if it already was... Pat Kirwan and Tim Ryan did their Sirius radio show "Moving the Chains" from Bills camp. The link below will take you to the audio..they interviewed Brandon, Jauron, Evans, Edwards, Dockery, Stroud, Kelsay, Poz, and Donte. Enjoy http://www.salsports.com/Sirius%20NFL%20Ra...ills%20Camp.htm

A little more speculation... Living in New York City, where we jaywalk all the time, you get used to judging when a car will pass you...you move out into the street, and just as the car passes you walk behind it. And the same when you're driving, (especially when making a turn) you determine if you have enough space between, say one pedestrian passsing in front of you and the one just starting to cross the street. So, maybe Marshawn makes the judgement that he can pass between the girls, the first girl passes by dancing, the victim lets the car go but expects it to pass at the speed it is currently going, Marshawn puts on the brakes to look at dancing girl, which is not expected by the victim and there is some contact. Since Marshawn has slowed down or stopped when the collision occurs, he thinks some drunk girl walked into his car, so he continues on, not thinking its his fault and expecting the girl to be fine, like when a drunk friend falls down and you laugh about it, and then he is surprised later on to find that it has become a hit and run scenario. Also, for witnesses, with Marshawn putting on the brakes and the collision occurring at virtually the same time, a split second, maybe a witness thinks the hit came before the brakes, while Marshawn thinks the brakes came before the hit. The victim may not really have known what happened. If it was late and she was drinking, being hit by or colliding with a car, she may just be thinking what the hell happened and then her friends or witnesses tell her "He hit you and then drove off." Then you get pissed. I know it's pure speculation (but so is the idea that Marshawn is a convicted liar based on that brief interview), but its a scenario I hadn't thought about until I read AJ1's post. And in which, no one is really lying, they're just reacting to how they thought it all went down.

Its hard to think of anything in black and white terms, there is always a gray area. Was missing last years playoffs due to the injuries, Jauron's conservative coaching strategy, Fairchild's horrible offense/play calling, rookies and 3rd and 4th stringers (and street free agents) making mistakes because they were inexperienced, bad luck? Realistically we all know it was a combination of all of those things. You really have to look at the whole picture. Has Jauron played it conservatively? Of course, but it kind of makes sense. In Jauron's 1st year, the team was a mess and there was a definite lack of talent at a number of positions. Plus it was a new coaching staff installing a new system. That team wasn't going to take it to anyone...so the conservative approach seemed logical if it kept you hanging around with teams that were obviously superior in talent (think of the Indy game that year). In year two under Jauron, the Bills were one of the youngest teams in the league, they were starting a rookie QB (for a good portion of the year) and a rookie RB, and then there were the injuries. Again, kind of seems logical to play it a bit safe...not saying I wasn't frustrated with it as a fan, but when you think about it, there was a reason for it. And as someone said before (when he was in Chi Town), if Jim Miller, A-train, and Marty Booker are your offensive stars, you might tend to play it a little safe. I think Jauron's biggest flaw as a head coach, isn't playing conservatively (I think that was a necessity), but his biggest flaw has been his hiring of offensive coordinators...he definitely does not have a good track record there (in Chicago or Buffalo). But, hopefully Turk can change that trend. I'm not giving him a pass on this, but we all have areas where we can improve and hopefully experience will teach its lessons here. But I also don't think you can judge a coach without taking into account what kind of talent is on the team and what are the circumstances surrounding that team or season. And, let's not underestimate the "getting guys to show up." Have you ever had a job with a bad or domineering boss? What does that do? Usually people start working half-assed, they dread coming into work, they don't go the extra mile...Jauron's players tend to like him, work hard for him, he creates a team atmosphere where they're all in it together and they believe they can win and if anyone thinks all of that doesn't matter in the 4th quarter of games or when the team is down, they're crazy. Think of Marv "where would you rather be than right here, right now" and that mindset of his teams in relation to the Comeback Game for example. Most teams would have folded down by that much. But those guys gave it their all for each other and their coaches and their fans. They had too much pride and belief in themselves to fold. I'm more than willing to give Jauron at least one more year to prove what he can do with a little more talent and experience on the field and hopefully a better O coordinator, especially because he promotes that team unity and never say die attitude. It goes along way if the team buys into it. Which they have.

per NFL network guys They just said Bowen was the nation's top tackler his junior year...should be a great STer and develop into a good LB in a couple of years... They said Bills draft was solid overall and that they really liked the pick of Corner

There are so many, but I don't see how it could be anything but Super Bowl XXV. The Miracle that wasn't and Ronnie Harmon's drop were devastating (amongst others) but to this day just as I salivate if I happen to hear the Monday Night Football theme in the summer, I wince with pain whenever I hear "Wide Right". My 10 year old nephew is too young to remember most of the games we're talking about. But he was at the Monday Night game against Dallas last year. He was so depressed afterwards. And I told him, "Today you have become a true Bills fan." I don't know if it made him feel any better, but somehow it made me feel better. It was like his right of passage or final initiation into the Buffalo faithful.

I'm no expert on the different types of defenses, but just going on what I see and what Marv and Jauron have said that they want, it seems like getting Walker could definitely help the run game...even if it wasn't his strength in Philly (i.e., their system). I know we've all gotten used to the big line stuffing defensive tackles (Washington, Williams, Adams) but what the Bills have been saying about how they want to play defense is that they want penetrating DTs. So, correct me if I'm wrong (those who have a better football IQ), but it seems there are two ways to go about stopping the run (in simple): 1. Have big DTs clogging up the middle (either closing run lanes or collapsing the pocket; maintaing or pushing the LOS) and the linebackers playing lanes [meeting backs in the holes, hopefully at the line of scrimmage (if the DTs hold)]. OR 2. Have DTs who penetrate (which if they're good at that I imagine OLmen would often be turning their bodies sideways to stop that rush), which means you have fast, attacking LBs (as Marv has been saying) who can shoot past the off balance linemen before they have time to recover and hopefully hit the back or QB in the backfield. They're not standing tall in a hole ready to lay some lumber, but shooting the gap and trying to disrupt the play before it gets started. And the speed of the LBs doesn't hurt in pass coverage either. Both systems have been successful...you just have to have the right type of players for that system...and just because we were bad against the run last year didn't mean we were going to go out and sign or draft a big run-stuffing nose tackle...maybe what we lacked in this system last year was that penetration from the DTs and the speed from the LBs. So if that was the case (feel free to disagree)...we may have just taken care of one of those needs (at the same time as dropping some big salaries), so now we just need another fast attacking LB (and some LB depth) to be better against the run next season. A healthy McCargo won't hurt either. And just wanted to add (forgive me while I sip some kool-aid): it's nice having a front office again who have a plan and do what they say they're going to...address the lines, get character players. And they show class themselves (not tagging Clements again, sending TKO to a playoff contender), they work out fair deals that aren't just for show (and who cares if we got the better of the other team or not, a great deal is both teams improving from it, unless they're in your division of course) So, I'm confident that Marv will stay true to his word and get a fast, attacking LB (probably in the draft)... keep it going Marv...(RB 2nd round?)

After Marv mentioned him last week, I was just curious to find out more about him and found this article. I pulled some selections from it (in bold): http://www.nfleurope.com/teams/story/RHE/9398452 Whether returning, rushing or receiving, Fire running back Fred Jackson gets the job done. This season Jackson gained countless extra-effort yards after initial contact. He’s totaled 644 combined net yards this season and is the only running back of the top three in the league to have balanced yardage (rushing and receiving) across the board. Jackson makes a living by being versatile, and offensive coordinator Steve Logan says he couldn’t ask for more. “His lower body strength has been the most surprising thing for me. He’s a real slender hip athlete, but he’s incredibly strong in the lower body and his yards after contact are impressive,” said Logan. “And to top it off, his hands are impeccable and he catches everything thrown to him.” On just about every play this season, opposing defenders have had the hit-and-miss syndrome when it comes to tackling Jackson. This may have something to do with his uncanny ability to change direction at the drop of a dime, those nimble hip movements Logan alluded to or, even easier, just his perseverance. “He’s exactly the guy you’re looking for,” said Logan. “You want him on your team and in your locker room. He’s quiet, serious about what he does, has a good sense of humor, a real mild spirit, and he’s just been a pleasure to have.” Now before anyone jumps on, I'm not saying he should be or is going to be our featured back by posting this (I was just curious to find out more about him)...and we all know that competition in D-III, the Indoor League, and even NFL Europe is no where near the NFL so the Bills would be stupid not to still draft a RB in the first few rounds of the draft (which I'm sure they will). But he definitely sounds like the type of back Marv is looking for (and not just because of the Coe college connection): He avoids tackles and gets yards after contact while running and is a receiving threat (those first two sound a lot like TT...remember how he could avoid getting hit even while crashing through the middle of the line...unlike a recent Bills RB). Jackson can also play STs (kick returner), and seems to be a high character guy who has excelled everytime he has had to take a step up in competition level. So if Jackson can take that next step, we draft a RB and perhaps a FB, maybe resign A-train, and then there's Shaud...we might not be so bad off at RB this year...we may not have a true featured back, but it will be a versatile backfield that should leave a lot of options open for playcalling.

Agreed! There are so many ways to go in rebuilding a team and I'm sure fixing the OL first is a solid way to go, but I think fixing the Defense first can also work--just can't get it all done in one or maybe even two years. This is where I give Levy/Jauron the benefit of the doubt for now; that they have a plan that will sooner (hopefully) rather than later address all weaknesses on the team.

Yes, Youboty was selected to hopefully fill Nate's spot. I don't think it was an afterthought, but once they got to the third round maybe he was the best player on their board and knowing they'd probably lose Nate next year they made the pick as protection. But we all know not every pick hits, or some guys take longer to develop. I'm just saying if they pick another CB it is because they think they need to fill that position (no confidence in Youboty or he needs more time to develop) rather than some penchant Marv has for drafting CBs. I don't think they'd pass up a better player at a need position just to stack the roster with CBs. And Marv gets a pass because he proved to me a long time ago that he knows the game of football and even though GM is a different job I haven't seen anything yet to make me think he's lost it or the game has passed him by. Good draft (even if some think he should have addressed other positions than they did), brought in a coach who can be trusted and who has experience (how good a coach he is of course could be debated, but...), improved record in the first year (even if only by 2 games), and a community spirit being rebuilt amongst the team and fans (I do think this is important to the team and it definitely is to me as a fan--that's why I'm a Bills fan). But, if Marv starts making idiotic moves and ruining the team, I'll be the first one to say we should move on and find a new GM. But, for now, yes he gets a pass from me. That's another point where I think people misinterpret what Marv means when he says "character." While I don't think he wants any players who are drug addicts or convicts, I think he is talking about: Do they love the game, do they play hard on every down, do they work hard in practice and the off-season, do they always want to improve, are they a team player (putting team success above individual accolades), etc. Again all my original post was saying was let's see what this off season brings first. If he doesn't address the lines at all, I'll agree with you that it was a mistake...but let's see what happens before we assume he's going to pick 3 DBs again and forget about every other position on the field. Another reason why Marv gets the benefit of the doubt from me right now (especially if people are bringing up his draft history) during the Superbowl years, five out of seven starting linemen were drafted (3 by Levy/Polian--2 before they came), Kent Hull came with Marv and Jim from the USFL, and John Davis came via free agency. They didn't draft a lot of OL, but then, they didn't need too, that line held together for quite a few years. In Marv's first draft as GM he selected 3 OL players (granted they weren't high picks, but then he and Polian found House Ballard in the 11th round). And again I think it's Donahoe hangover as far as picking up other teams's OL trash...although Marv did bring in Reyes (who hasn't worked out) and Fowler (who played decent) last year, he also admitted this year that they still need to address the line further. That line was such a mess before last year that he had to try something...he wasn't going to be able to draft 3 or 4 rookie OL players and start them and have them become an above average line so sure he picked up some FAs. But, if he didn't pick up any FAs you'd complain he didn't address the line. The key will be can Levy help to find better linemen (either in the draft or FA) than Donahoe could. I hope the answer to that will be yes. (and Anderson and Gandy were Donahoe guys--hangover?).

I've heard quite a few people on this board mention Marv's propensity for drafting defensive backs early as a way to deride his GM capabilities, so (memory not serving) I went to look it up: In the 10 drafts that occured while Marv was coach, the Bills had 8-1st round choices, 12-2nd round picks, and 12-3rd round picks Of the 8 1st round picks the Bills selected 3 DBs (Henry Jones '91, Thomas Smith '93, Jeff Burris '94) Of the 12 2nd round picks the Bills selected 2 DBs (Nate Odomes '87, Roland Mitchell '87) Of the 12 3rd round picks the Bills selected 3 DBs (Darryl Wren '91, Marlon Kerner '95, Matt Stevens '96) Total: 8 of 32 picks on DBs in rounds 1-3 (or 25% of our picks for a position that is 18-22% of our starting line-up--18% for 4 starters, 22% if you counted nickel spot) So, I guess I can see where people with this perspective are coming from, but football being what it is you have to take a lot of factors into account such as we selected very low in the draft order from 1991-1995, the 3 DBs we selected in the first round were taken 26th, 28th, and 27th overall. Most of the star players were off the board...and maybe DB was a safer pick at that spot...another reason was we had lost Nate Odomes after the '93 season and had to replace him (ergo the Smith and Burris picks), etc. etc.--Not to mention that 3 of those first 5 day-one selections worked out pretty well for the Bills. I also think that some people have Donahoe hangover...we just couldn't believe that he wouldn't address the lines in the draft, so when Marv didn't use any high picks on the lines in his first draft people wanted to jump all over Marv (he did pick 5 linesmen though) and so those people went back to Marv's past to point out how many DBs he's selected (as if by himself and apparently just because he likes DBs). But how many of you (looking back now) think we would have been ok with Vincent and Milloy at safety all year last year (and in the new scheme). And even if they did ok last year, they both would have needed to be replaced this year due to age and we would have had to draft DBs this year instead of last. And of course Youbouty was picked up in case Nate walked this year, we don't know what we have there yet, but you can't say DB wasn't a need position... BUT WHAT I FOUND MORE INTERESTING as I was looking back was this: Bills draft 1987 (Marv's 1st--not in draft order) 2 DBs, 2 DTs, 1 OL, 2 LBs, 2 RBs TE, DE Bills draft 2006 (Marv's 1st as GM-- " " " " ) 3 DBs, 2 DTs, 3 OL, 1 LB (only 9 picks in 2006 instead of 11 in '87) Maybe he's following a plan that was successful for him in the past...not that this team and the team of '87-'88 have the same needs, but in 1988 without a 1st round pick, the Bills chose a hall of fame RB in the 2nd and a WR in the 3rd (in the '88 and '89 draft no DB was selected higher than the 5th round)...looking at this, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see us pick up a RB in the 2nd or 3rd round this year (if Marv stays true to his old form) and I also wouldn't be so quick in pigeon-holing Marv's drafts even if we have to pick up another corner this year to hopefully fill the hole Nate will leave. Final note (in a long post, sorry): Get over the fact that Marv doesn't spend all his time thinking about the cap. He was hired for the following reasons: To bring a high-character, blue-collar, family atmosphere back to the Bills after Ol' Whitey took that away from us and the players; to be democratic not autocratic; to keep Ralph informed in what's going on; and to find the right players to try to build a championship team, as he has done before (albeit AFC champs not Superbowl). And he's not running things on his own, he has Modrak (a former GM, which I think some people forget), and Overdorf and his team to deal with cap, contracts and the like. Modrak could be a GM elsewhere, do you think Marv "Mr. Consensus" Levy doesn't listen to him or take his advice? Do you think Overdorf isn't right there as they make decisions telling Marv what consequences a move will have on the cap? Come on.....let's see what this off-season brings before we run Marv out of town for not knowing all the cap figures or for picking too many DBs... Go get 'em Marv.