folz

We always talk about where QBs are found, some say you have to get one in the first round, others point to Brady going in the 6th, etc. So, I thought I would take a look at the projected 2010 NFL starting QBs to see where they were drafted. I'll post the full list below (and I could be wrong about who some of the starters will be) but it breaks down like this: Of the 33 potential starters (not counting our Bills...w/2 possibilities each from Clev and SF): 19 1st rounders 5 2nd rounders 2 3rd rounders 2 4th rounders 0 5th rounders 2 6th rounders 1 7th rounders 2 UDFA And just a note: last year Warner and Moore both had starts as UDFAs (I assume CAR will start Claussen this year) So, the overwhelming majority are 1st rounders. Granted some of them are young and may not pan out...but, for this purpose I'm only looking at if they are a starter, not how good a starter they are, I'll let you guys debate that if you care to. But, most are indeed 1st rounders, however, 24% are 4th round or lower and 18% 6th round or lower. And on the other side of the coin, you have the 49ers who have 2 not just 1st rounders, but #1 overall picks, neither of whom I would feel comfortable with...And then there are the Raiders who before releasing Russell actually had 4 1st round QBs (Russell, Boller, Campbell, and Losman) along with a 3rd and 6th round selections (Frye and Gradkowski)...will any of them ever happen? And speaking of the Raiders QBs, I found this interesting article comparing them... http://drafthistory.com/ Scroll down and check out the stat graphics comparing the QBs...how much better is Campbell than JP? Maybe not as much as some of us thought (statistics-wise at least)...the article quote on JP is: "And I've overlooked former Buffalo Bill starter J.P. Losman, who won a championship in the UFL last season before joining the Raiders at year end. Look at Losman's career statistics, which in many respects appear better than all the other's except Campbell. Losman completes a fair percentage of his passes, for as many yards per attempt as Campbell, throws nearly as many touchdowns as interceptions, but does have a hard time making decisions which results in an inordinate number of sacks. He was shell-shocked in Buffalo, but as a former number one draft pick, he may be worth the risk of keeping." That's it, just a few tidbits I thought I would pass along. Here's the (obviously unofficial) list: Mia Henne 2nd NE Brady 6th NYJ Sanchez 1st Buf Edwards 3rd/ Brohm 2nd/ Brown 7th/ Fitz 7th Bal Flacco 1st Cin Palmer 1st Cle Delhomme UFA/ McCoy 3rd Pitt Rothlisberger 1st Hou Schaub 3rd Ind Manning 1st Jax Garrard 4th Tenn Young 1st Den Orton 4th KC Cassel 7th Oak Campbell 1st SD Rivers 1st Dal Romo UFA NYG Manning 1st Phi Kolb 2nd Was McNabb 1st Chi Cutler 1st Det Stafford 1st GB Rodgers 1st Minn Favre? 2nd Atl Ryan 1st Car Claussen 2nd/ Moore UFA NO Brees 2nd TB Freeman 1st AZ Leinart? 1st Stl Bradford 1st SF Smith 1st/ Carr 1st Sea Hasselbeck 6th

Although I disagree with Russ 'em about Trent pushing the ball, I agree about Brohm. When I watched the video (before seeing this thread) it jumped out to me as well... I thought, "Wow, Brohm throws a beautiful ball." Sure its only rookie camp, and no pads, and 5 secs of footage or whatever, etc., etc. but don't kill the guy just for stating the obvious. Watch the video, it's a pretty looking ball in the air. I'm not a Brohm die-harder...my assumption of late was that Trent would win back the starter's job. I just don't think Fitz is the answer and don't think he really has a shot at the job and I didn't know enough about Brohm to have confidence to think he could come out and win the job...but throw the rookie in and some coaching and I'm starting to get excited about this QB competition and how it will turn out. Hopefully they all get better, but one guy really comes on to seize the job. And did you see the Trent TRX video...he's working hard too... http://www.sportsfanshopdeals.com/trent-ed...k-trx-training/ I'm not confident we have a franchise quaterback on hand, but I am confident that Chan will make all of these guys better and he'll put the best one out there on Sundays.

I 100% agree with "Bad play call, bad design, bad protections" and I give blame to the receivers as well. And I wasn't saying the line was the rock of Gibralter by any means, sure it would've been nice if they had given Trent more time, but since they didn't, then Trent needs to throw that ball away. Yes, you're right only about 3 seconds before there is pressure, but Trent drops back and makes his reads in 2 seconds, no one is open, on the third second, as soon as he feels that pressure from the left, he should be chucking that ball to the sideline knowing he doesn't have enough time to go through the progressions again. Yes, it's 3rd down, but it's also a 3-3 ball game at the start of the second quarter. If it isn't there and you have that many guys rushing you've got to throw it away and punt and try to get it next possession. Now if its the 4th quarter and you're down, maybe you stick in the pocket longer...but not in this situation. Anyhow, what I guess I was originally reacting to was ripping Hangartner (not that I think he's the 2nd coming of Kent Hull or anything), but let's remember that last year he had a rookie on either side of him...I don't think he is/was as bad as some people think.

If you really look at that play objectively, this is what happened (according to my amateur eyes): The Jets are sending a blitz, rushing 5 men from the line with 1 LB on a delayed blitz and 1 LB checking the RB. It's a three step drop for Trent (a quick play) and knowing there's a blitz coming, you better get rid of it quick. D. Bell successfully blocks #98 J. Meredith successfully blocks #92 Hangartner chips #99 which allows E. Wood to successfully block #99 Hangartner turns back to 93 who beats him, BUT... Levitre is looking to block #98 who Bell already has taken care of what should have happened is while Hangartner chips #99 and passes him off to Wood, Levitre should have been chipping #93 and then passing him off to Hang before he turns to help Bell with #98 On the other side D. Fine initially has #97 blocked, who then beats Fine inside on a 2nd move Fred Jackson successfully blocks LB #57...but #52 is also coming on the blitz Trent takes 3 step drop kind of pumps the ball twice, then feels the pressure from #93 on the left, takes a step up, but by this time #97 has beaten Fine with his 2nd move and #52 is coming in, Trent takes another step in and then buries his head. So, if you were to blame anyone on the O-line, it would have to be Levitre... but really, Trent had 2 (maybe 3) chances to throw the ball...if he had thrown at any of those moments, Fine's man and the delayed LB (who are the guys who crushed him) don't even get close to Trent. On a quick play with a blitz coming, you look for your hot read and try to complete it, if it's not there you gotta throw it away. It's not about whether you see it coming or not, it's about the internal QB clock that they always talk about. You have to know in that type of situation how much time you have and act accordingly. So, I definitely put that play on Trent, with Levitre, of course, not helping the situation. Anyhow, I'm not trying to dump on Trent...I like him and I think he looks like our best option right now (Fitz ain't it and Brohm and Brown are unknowns). I hope Trent can put it together with better offensive coaches/play calling, but that play was definitely not Hangartner's fault, and even the best lines in the league can't hold out for long against a 7 man rush...you have to get rid of that ball quicker. To the original post, according to how people refer to it, yes, you'd have to say Trent is injury prone and it does worry me, but does that mean he can't go out and play next season without a significant injury? No, because who knows and with better coaching maybe his clock gets better rather than rung.

Gailey > Van Pelt/Jauron by a mile, if for nothing but experience That's the big difference...Spiller is icing (hopefully a very sweet one). The O may not be great next year or even above average, but it WILL be better than last season. Now if only a QB and some of the young OL and WR can step up...then we might have something.

I know I'm always a bit on the optimistic side, but I can't understand the people who are predicting a worse season than last year (1-5 wins). Why we could be worse: New offense New defense loses: TO, Butler, Reed, maybe Schobel Why we could be better: New Offense New Defense New coaching staff Non first time OC Less injuries Injured players coming back Another draft and a few new FAs with no significant loses (unless you consider TO and maybe Schobel) Our younger players have another year under their belt Our OC won't be fired just before the season Our offense won't be hampered by a conservative Defensive head coach Our LT won't be let go a week before the season The team got bigger and stronger on D Tougher attitude across the organization I'm not going to even guess whether this was a good draft or not (who after last year thought we would be praising Jarius Byrd as one of our best players now). But seriously, where did we get worse from last year? QBs: didn't get a big name prospect or FA but the guys we have are the same as last year, so we didn't downgrade either and I'm pretty sure Gailey will get more out of them than Jauron and Van Pelt RBs: Sure we didn't need to improve this area but either way Spiller has upgraded this position OL: Ok, we did lose Butler and we need to see if Wood can come back from injury...but the injuries last year were just unreal (if we improve with that alone the line should be better), they will hopefully be in a better system, the young guys will have more experience and now we have more depth...so we didn't get significantly better, but again I don't think we got worse by any means...Besides Butler only played 1-1/2 games last year and wasn't the answer at RT anyhow, he was more of a G. If Wood comes back, we definitely didn't get worse here. TEs: Should be better as Schouman will be healthy and Nelson progresses WRs: Ok this is one spot that until proven otherwise I will give the sceptics saying we are worse (but I am intriqued to see what Johnson and now Easley can do--not so sure about Hardy) DL: We will definitely be bigger here, Kelsey won't be on the end...Schobel is a loss, but Edwards was a great pickup and Stroud will be healthy again...hopefully the rookie DT can come in and produce LB: We were starting a safety at LB by the end of the season and we were already small at that position. We brought in Davis, Poz will be back, Mitchell will be healthy, we have the DEs converting (Kelsey, Maybin, Ellis, maybe Schobel), and our draft picks from last year and this year...if nothing else, we are bigger and have more options than the last few years DB/S: We are fine here and should be as good or better (more experienced and improved front 7) I'm not saying we are a contender or even a playoff team this year, but how, seriously how could we be worse than last year...every position should be the same or improved except for maybe WR...and that isn't even taking into account that the offensive coaching/playcalling should be vastly improved. I'm not annointing Gailey as a genius, but there is no way he isn't an improvement over a first time caller in Van Pelt who was hampered by a conservative HC. What are the guys predicting 2-5 wins seeing that I am not...I don't think I'm just drinking the Kool-Aid.

Sorry for another Campbell post, but... I went to a Washington Redskins forum to get their take on Campbell since opinions here seemed to be so diverse...(hope the link works) http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34789 For those who don't want to go to the site, I pulled the best comments and pasted below, only got 20 or so replies so far, but the opinions all seem to be pretty much in unison: "Has all the tools... big, athletic, very strong arm, excellent speed... but can't connect with a receiver in stride if he walked it to him. Has poor pocket presence. Doesn't feel the pressure... a lot of sacks last year were from failing to step up into the pocket...Excellent on the move with the ball... can pick up big chunks with his legs. Doesn't read defenses well..." "I'll add, he does have some upside. The Skins have not done Jason any favors with the revolving door of coaches, sub-par WR's and sub par blocking in many years. If he was given a fresh start you never know, he might surprise us. I would also say he would beat Trent Edwatds in an open competition, IMO." "In the right situation, he could be a decent game manager. Lacks the temperment to be a top QB." "Jason is physically what you want in a QB. He's is 6 foot 5, strong, mobile but not a "run first" guy, and he has a very strong arm. I would say he's the opposite of McNabb, he's very accurate in the short to intermediate routes, but misses consistently on the long ball. He does seem to stand a little too stiff in the pocket sometimes, doesn't feel pressure very well, and for a mobile guy, he rarely moves around in the pocket to avoid pressure. He's a high character guy, but is soft spoken and not much of a leader. I think he reads defenses pretty well. He knows where to go with the ball, but he's a little indecisive at times. He seems to be a much better quarterback between the 20's and at times completes passes at will there. But, in the red zone, where the margin for error narrows and the game moves faster, he struggles. That said, he is an upgrade over Trent Edwards. And, I think if you get him for less than a 3rd round pick, you got a steal. His true value is a 3rd in my view. But, he'll likely go for less." "Cannon arm and can take a beating. He's not that accurate though and he holds the ball way too long. Good OL is recommended." "Good arm, not accurate downfield though. Can kinda scramble. He's tough. Gives terrible interviews. Will never rape a girl in a college town bathroom." "Other than Soup being a tough SOB and more mobile, I can't see anywhere he is better than Trent Edwards. Actually when healthy, Edwards is better, but he rarely seams to be healthy." "Now the question is, would Campbell succeed in that system or even propel them to the next level? The answer is no. He's not a super star. He has all the tools, but can't put it all together. Can't read quick enough. Great QB's have read the D by the time they hit their last step of the drop back. Campbell can't. Now, if the Bills had a better O-line, giving him more time to read the D, Campbell could do very well in that system. The Steelers showed me in 2008 that this guy wouldn't be the next great QB. They were the first team to start sending pressure at him and making him hurry his reads. Campbell couldn't think fast enough. Then every team started pressuring him and we went 2-6. You can be in many systems, but reading a defense never changes. Many may not agree with me here, but it's dead on. He won't lose you games, but he won't win you any with a line that the Bills have, and he's a little better player than Edwards."

1. Fired Dick Jauron 2. Hired Nix as GM--No it's not a given he'll be a great GM, but he has alot more experience than Russ, has had success in the league and we had one of our best drafts in a long time last year when he returned which makes me optimistic for this coming and future drafts. 3. Hiring Whaley--Also has good experience in the league and brings some youth to the room, with these two our FO football IQ is much higher. 4. Firing of John Guy--nuff said 5. Hiring of Gailey--as others said a wait and see approach is in place here, but I do like the attitude difference from DJ, he has better offensive knowledge to help the O which DJ couldn't, and hopefully he and his staff will be able to better evaluate our own players and not let good ones sit on the bench 6. Hiring back DeHaven--couldn't have gotten a better replacement for April to keep our teams strong 7. Gailey will be calling O plays rather than first timer AVP (hindered by DJ) 8. Hiring two good strength and conditioning coaches and putting an emphasis back on that. We all know what we lost with Rusty leaving and the injuries of the last 3 years can't continue if we are ever to be successful. 9. Dumping the Tampa two and getting a bigger, tougher D. Bigger, stronger players should also help in the injury dept. 10. FA has been quiet, but I do like the Davis and Edwards pick ups--no they aren't the kind of guys to put us over the top, obviously we are still a ways from that anyhow, but they are definitely good adds for the team. So, no, we haven't significantly changed our roster by making any really big FA aquisitions, we didn't get one of the top Superbowl winning coaches, we didn't get a big name GM, and yes, we still have a lot of holes...but I think those who don't at least have a little bit of hope that we are heading in a better direction are underestimating the significance of some of the moves I listed above. And even if you didn't love the Nix and Gailey signings, are sceptical of switching the defense, and hate what we have or haven't done in FA, numbers 1, 4, 6, 7, and 8 should at least give some hope I would think. I really feel like this team will be a better team this year than last...last year's team was a mess to put it mildly and yet they still won 7 games. We definitely have a ways to go, but I will support the new guys until they prove otherwise...but what makes so many people think we have become a worse team? Our head coach last year stunk, our OC was fired just before the season, we had a first time OC calling plays who didn't even have the preseason let alone the entire off season to get ready, our head coach was fired in the middle of the season and we had a lame duck interim coach, then you add in the injuries, the QB shuffling, the lack of offense, etc., etc...how, seriously, how could this upcoming season go worse than that?

Let's find some middle ground here and let the Peters trade recede into history... Did/does Peters have the potential to be elite? Yes Were we worse off without him last year? Yes Has he played as an elite tackle over the last 2 years? No (2008) and probably not (2009) Could he return to 2007 form? He might Is he paid too much money? Based on the last 2 years I'd say yes. Not saying he was awful last year, but I also don't think he played as say a top 3 LT (in relation to his salary). Will the Bills be better off without him long term? I think so. Let me explain the last answer: He wanted too much money, which was probably the Bills fault for signing Dockery and Walker to such huge contracts. But, he wasn't happy here, didn't want to be here anymore so even if he got paid would we have gotten the best of him? If he was unhappy, he'd be griping which could make other guys unhappy (we've all seen it in our workplaces), we got pretty good value for him in the trade, we created a hole (which hurt us last year) but ultimately if we had spent that much money on him we might have had to short change other positions moving forward, which we couldn't really afford to do knowing how many spots we had to upgrade. If he was guaranteed to play as an elite LT for the next 5 to 10 years you pay him, if you have any reservations, you let him go. So, can't we agree on the fact that he doesn't suck and has and might be able to play as an elite LT but there were some question marks if he could do it on a consistent basis to warrant the money he was asking for? I feel like many people are still going to the extremes on either end with this issue.

I know it seems that for the last 10 years we have been in rebuilding mode every 2 to 3 years and many fans are sick of it and want to win now (so do I). but the Bills haven't really tried to rebuild this team since 2000 (albeit unsuccessfully at that time) when Donahoe and Greg Williams came in. They did actually blow up the team, got rid of the older guys, fixed the cap situation, and tried to start again with young players. Problem was they didn't draft well and therefore never developed a core of young players to build around. Sure, we changed coaches (and GMs) twice more during the last 10 years, but we never actually tried to rebuild again. When Mularkey was hired, Donahoe was still running the show, so nothing was blown up. They continued on down the path they were on (talent-wise) and tried to bring in some big names to get over the hump. When Jauron and Marv came in, things franchise-wise (not just roster) were in such disarray that they did bring a modicum of stability back to the organization, but in order to do that, they didn't blow up the team, they kind of just worked with what they had and tried to fix what they saw was wrong (which they didn't do well). And Brandon (although I like the guy and think he is very important to the organization) was in over his head as a football GM and so he wasn't going to start from scratch with a solid plan built on experience, he was just going to try to fill some holes and hope for the best (again with what we already had). When a team rebuilds, they have to find (draft) a core of young talented players that can grow and learn and take their lumps together in order to become (hopefully, eventually) a well oiled machine (and I think that started with last year's draft for the Bills). FA is then to fill in the role players on the team and/or maybe a couple of starters in places of need where the drafts may be weak. A team needs to grow together (coaches and players)...its not just about having the most talented players, its about talented players playing as a team (in sync with each other). I don't think the Bills are giving up on next season and only looking to the future. But when you are actually rebuilding, if you sacrifice the future to be slightly better next season you are doing yourself a disservice. We aren't going to win the Superbowl next year...so bringing back the older guys (TO, Reed, whoever) would just be another season of not letting the young guys get the experience they need (which I feel was one of the problems under Jauron). We need to get young, hungry, talented players in here and then let them grow together over the next couple of years (in one system) by getting experience together on the field. Bringing in a couple of big name FAs (or by trade, say a McNabb) or resigning our older guys isn't going to guarantee us success next season, let alone make us a competitive team for the next 5 years (when those older players will probably be retired or out of fuel). Even if we aren't a playoff team next year, I will be excited if I see a group of young talented players learning and growing and getting better together. It usually seems to take 3 drafts (supplemented by FA) to rebuild a team...I count last year's draft as draft 1, this year will be 2, and the following season will be 3. So, I'm not expecting the Bills to be great next year, but if the new FO and coaches draft well (big "IF" but after last year's draft I have hope), we should be improved this season, be stocked up the following season and getting better and then hopefully as the young guys become experienced young veterans, we will have a competitive team for a number of years. After what we've been through, its tough to say we have to have some more patience with this process...but I'm excited that we actually look to be finally rebuilding again and not just temporarily patching the holes that will just reopen again. Instead of expecting to win immediately (playoffs/Superbowl this season), enjoy watching a young team come together... think the Bills team of 1986 to 1989, it can be exciting to watch a team get closer and closer to success... instead of running in place, which is what we've been doing for the last how many years.

To build on Pete's post or to give a slightly different take on it, here are the 1st round QBs for the last 15 years: 2009: #1 Matt Stafford Det, #5 Mark Sanchez NYJ, #17 Josh Freeman TB 2008: #3 Matt Ryan Atl, #18 Joe Flacco BAL 2007: #1 JaMarcus Russell Oak, #22 Brady Quinn Cle 2006: #3 Vince Young Ten, #10 Matt Leinart Az, #11 Jay Cutler Den 2005: #1 Alex Smith SF, #24 Aaron Rodgers GB, #25 Jason Campbell Was 2004: #1 Eli Manning SD/NYG, #4 Philip Rivers NYG/SD, #11 Ben Roethlisberger Pitt, #22 JP Losman Buf 2003: #1 Carson Palmer Cin, #7 Byron Leftwhich JAX, #19 Kyle Boller Bal, #22 Rex Grossman Chi 2002: #1 David Carr Hous, #3 Joey Harrington Det, #32 Patrick Ramsey Was 2001: #1 Michael Vick Atl 2000: #18 Chad Pennington NYJ 1999: #1 Tim Couch Cle, #2 Donovan McNabb Phi, #3 Akili Smith Cin, #11 Daunte Culpepper Min, #12 Cade McNown Chi 1998: #1 Peyton Manning Ind, #2 Ryan Leaf SD 1997: #26 Jim Druckenmiller SF 1996: No QBs selected in the 1st round 1995: #3 Steve Mcnair Tenn, #5 Kerry Collins Car 36 QBs drafted in the first round during the last 15 years Ok this next section is subjective (feel free to argue) but my best take: Very good to great QBs: Steve McNair, Peyton Manning, Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer Good starters (who may be poised to move into the first category): Jay Cutler, Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger Guys who have been solid starters: Kerry Collins, Chad Pennington, Byron Leftwich (kind of) Too early to tell (but with potential): Matt Stafford, Mark Sanchez, Josh Freeman, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Vince Young Interesting to note: in that 15 years 10 teams took 2 stabs at 1st round QBs: Bal, Det, Was, Atl, NYJ, Cle, Cin, Chi, SD, SF; 14 of the current starting QBs were 1st rounders (so 18 current NFL starters were not 1st rounders) So 36 QBs drafted/ 11 good QBs and 6 who may become good (let's say 3 do and 3 don't of those 6) So like 14 of 36 or about 39% good QBs and 61% busts (again open to argument) but maybe only 8-11 (in 15 years) that are or may become/be considered franchise QBs

The last regime had some serious issues (that we as fans seemed to be aware of but they never seemed to address): 1. OC/Offensive playcalling: always a problem on Jauron coached teams Nix brought in Gailey, an offensive minded coach 2. Injuries Nix/Gailey announce they want bigger, stronger football players; then address the strength and conditioning program with the two new hires 3. Depth I trust Nix/Whaley's experience more than Jauron/Brandon to start building depth (Pitt and SD never seem to be lacking in that category) and they have now started to release some players who were ST specialists and did not help our depth which is a sign that they look to address depth 4. John Guy He's gone 5. Talent evaluation: this includes the draft/FA but also seeing who you have on your own team...how often did we as fans see players who should get playing time sit for one reason or another (Freddy Jackson, Jabari Greer, George Wilson, Steve Johnson, etc.)...not saying I know the new guys will be better evaluators, but can they really be worse? Plus, the FO now has a lot more experience in Scouting/GM (football) type duties. Nix and Whaley (both scouts and asst GMs for successful teams) making draft and FA decisions instead of Brandon (very good marketing guy), Guy (terrible), and Jauron (very questionable in talent evaluation). 6. Not practicing against the 3-4 defense when all 3 divisional opponents play the 3-4 New guys are switching to a 3-4 or 3-4 hybrid I could go on, but what I like is that it seems that the new guys are seeing and addressing a lot of the things we have been worried about or bitching about the last couple of years in regards to what was wrong with the team and that is what I think is leading to the growing optimism among many fans, maybe these guys really know what they're doing. It's no guarantee that they will succeed (God knows we've been burned before), and we do have a lot of holes to fill and need a big influx of talented players, but these guys are definitely a smarter (more experienced) FO than we have had in a while if only for the fact that they can at least see what is wrong with the team and are trying to go about fixing it rather than ignoring it. We'll have a better idea about their talent evaluation after FA and the draft and on into the season, but I'm cautiously optimistic. It may take a couple of seasons to right the ship, but I'd be surprised if we don't at least see positive momentum this year, which is better than stagnating which is what we've been doing for the last 10 years.

Colts 27 Saints 17 Sorry NO, but down with GW!

We all know about BRUCE DEHAVEN But here's a little more info on the others: STAN HIXON http://www.redskins.com/gen/coaches/Stan_Hixon.jsp Stan coached six seasons as the Redskins wide receivers coach. Under Hixon’s tutelage, Moss had a breakout season in 2005--his first year with the Redskins--that ended with his first trip to the Pro Bowl. Hixon's successful college coaching experience makes him an excellent guide for young players. Prior to joining the Redskins, Hixon coached four years at LSU (2000-03). He served as associate head coach in addition to wide receivers coach and was part of the Tigers’ 2003 NCAA National Championship team. He coached players to three 1,000-yard seasons and had a player named first-team All-SEC three times. Under Hixon’s guidance, Michael Clayton became the fifth 1,000-yard receiver in LSU history and the second under Hixon. That year, Clayton, Henderson and Green combined for 171 catches for 2,374 yards and 26 touchdowns. In 2001, Hixon coached Josh Reed to one of the most dominating seasons ever by a receiver in SEC history. Reed caught a school-record 94 passes for an SEC-record 1,740 yards and seven touchdowns. He was named an All-American and won the Fred Biletnikoff Award, given to college football’s top wide receiver. Prior to LSU, Hixon coached wide receivers at Georgia Tech (1995-99), developing a pair of All-ACC receivers in Campbell and White. He previously coached running backs for two seasons at Wake Forest (1993-94). Hixon served as wide receivers coach at South Carolina (1989-92), producing All-Americans Brooks and Miller, and at Appalachian State (1983-88). He began his college coaching career overseeing running backs at Morehead State (1980-82). Hixon was a standout receiver at Iowa State. He starred in the Peach Bowl in 1977 and the Hall of Fame Bowl in 1978. GEORGE CORTEZ http://www.stampeders.com/team/football_op/profile/?id=4 Cortez has spent 17 seasons in the Canadian Football League — 10 with Calgary, two in Ottawa, four with Montreal and one with Saskatchewan. In six seasons as an offensive coordinator in the CFL (all with the Stamps), Cortez has been to the Grey Cup five times—winning in 1992, 1998, 2001 and 2008. In his second season since rejoining the team in 2007, Cortez’s offence was again among the league leaders in most offensive categories, ranking second in the league in points scored, total offence, average offence per game, first downs, rushing yards and rushing yards per game. The offence led the CFL with the fewest passes intercepted. He worked closely with quarterback Henry Burris, who posted career numbers, and guided him to his first Most Outstanding Player nomination. Burris was named the MVP of the Grey Cup game after helping to post 443 yards of total offence in the championship game. Cortez’s offence also boasted the league’s leading rusher in Joffrey Reynolds, who eclipsed the 1,000-yard mark for the fourth consecutive season. Cortez worked for the Montreal Alouettes/Concordes from 1983-86 and with the Ottawa Rough Riders from 1990-91 before joining the Stampeders in 1992 as the offensive line coach. He spent three years in this role before a two-year stint at Southern Methodist University as quarterbacks coach. He returned to the Stamps in 1997 and became the club’s offensive coordinator in 1998. During eight seasons in Calgary, he designed successful offences and is credited with developing quarterbacks Jeff Garcia, Dave Dickenson and Burris. In his first year as Calgary's offensive coordinator, the Stampeders claimed the Grey Cup as the Garcia-led offence paced the CFL in 10 statistical departments. A year later, injuries forced Calgary to use three different starting quarterbacks but Cortez helped the Stamps to their fourth West Division title and Calgary led the CFL in seven offensive categories. In 2000, Cortez helped Dickenson become the CFL’s Most Outstanding Player and Calgary’s offence ranked first or second in seven league offensive categories. A year later, the Stamps led the league in eight offensive categories — including scoring (25.4 points per game) — and running back Kelvin Anderson gained 1,383 yards to lead the top-ranked rushing offence. After Calgary won the Grey Cup in 2001, Cortez joined the University of California Golden Bears as offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach. He spent four years at Cal and worked with quarterbacks Kyle Boller and Aaron Rodgers, who became first-round picks in the National Football League Draft. He would rejoin the Stamps as offensive coordinator/associate head coach in 2007 and under his direction, the Stamps led the league in rushing offence and passing offence while quarterback Henry Burris led the league with 34 touchdown passes despite missing four games. ADRIAN WHITE White is a former NFL defensive back selected in the 2nd round of the 1987 draft by the New York Giants. White spent six seasons in the NFL from 1987-93. http://www.nflplayers.com/user/content.asp...igh=443,0,820,n After retiring from playing cornerback in the NFL for seven years (including being a member of the Giants 1990 Super Bowl Championship team, though he sat out due to injuries), White coached at Southern Illinois University and then coached for two teams in NFL Europe from 2000 to 2007, as the defensive back coach and defensive coordinator. During NFL Europe’s off-seasons, he coached in the NFL. White, 44, is the Buffalo Bills Defensive Quality Control Coach after interning there during 2 previous seasons. (for the bills during the Training Camps of 2006 and 2007).

I've seen in a number of threads where posters say Buddy and/or Chan are bad or will be bad simply because they are old. And we should have picked younger guys who are more in touch. But age also means experience... not saying that always leads to success, but their age does not preclude that they will fail. Ok, Ralph is 91, that is old But 58 and 70 years old in this day and age doesn't mean you're ready for the retirement home, or are going senile, or are so hopelessly out of touch with the world that you can't be productive anymore. Chan just turned 58 years old Bill Belichick is 57 (only 3 months younger than Chan) Pete Carroll is 58 (4 months older than Chan) Mike Shanahan is 57 (only 7 months younger than Chan) John Fox is 55 Wade Phillips is 62 Jim Caldwell is 55 (and in a Superbowl) Tom Coughlin is 63 (won a Superbowl at 61) Norv Turner is 57 Marty Schottenheimer was 63 his last year in SD (66 now) Marv Levy was 71 when he retired (went to Super Bowls at age 65, 66, 67, and 68) Dick Vermeil was 69 when he retired (won Superbowl when he was 63) Bill Parcells coached until he was 65 I could go on and on... If we had hired Shanahan would anyone be saying he's too old? Buddy is 70 years old Bill Parcells is 68 Mike Holmgren is 62 Bill Polian is 67 A.J. Smith is 61 Jerry Jones is 67 Al Davis is 80 (ok, bad example) GM info was harder to find and yes, Buddy is one of the oldest current GMs, but would anyone be saying they were too old if we hired Parcells or Polian? Age doesn't mean anything, but experience can mean everything I am not saying these guys will be successful (but I hope they are) and I'm fine with people arguing against them because of their records/resumes, or them being retreads, or in-house hires, or whatever, but please stop with the they aren't good because they are old stuff...

Ok, I did say in my post "the really important hiring", but I only meant that the DC hire would need to be more experienced/proven successful than the OC hiring because in essence, Chan is the OC and Modkins is his 2nd lieutenant...whereas the DC will be for the most part running the show on that side of the ball so Chan isn't spreading himself too thin. I didn't mean it is more important than the hiring of the head coach and yes, Chan wasn't the sexy pick we all wanted, but he seems like a good choice to me now that the dust has settled. He's as hungry as we fans are (to prove himself/chip on the shoulder). And I'm glad they got a coach who wants to be in Buffalo and isn't afraid of the challenge. I'm glad we got a guy who is going to concentrate on fixing the offense. And for what will be asked of him (Modkins), it is more important that he is someone who knows how Chan wants things run and can teach that well, rather than to be bringing an entirely different system with him or a lot of OC experience (he won't be calling the games). That is why I think we didn't need a super genius experienced O coordinator and I'm not upset by the hire of Modkins, but I do think they need to hire an experienced, good DC. And I would be upset if they don't pick an experienced guy for that position. Just because someone has a big name we all recognize and past success, doesn't guarantee that they are the right person for the job or will automatically make everything better (see Terrell Owens). And in reverse, just because we don't recognize their name doesn't mean they aren't good at what they do or will be asked to do. Can anyone say 100% that Cowher, or Billick, or Marty would have succeeded in Buffalo and that Chan will not? I like the amount of experience that Buddy and Chan bring to the table after the last 10 years of bad or inexperienced FO men and offensive futility. So Buddy has never been a GM, but he has a hell of alot more experience for the job than Marv or Brandon. So Chan isn't Cowher...but Cowher thinks he's a damn good coach. Jauron and Guy are gone! Brandon won't be calling the shots when it comes to personnel. Right now, the glass is half-full (not half-empty) for me and I'm just hoping optimistically that the glass isn't filled only with Kool-aid this time.

Since Chan will be running the offense and calling his own game, as others have stated, Modkins will be his right-hand man in teaching the offense and game planning. He knows how Chan runs his offense, having worked for him for most of his coaching career, so he will be a trusted partner who can hit the ground running (as far as teaching the system to the players). If Chan tried to bring in a bigger name OC, then first he would have to teach his system to the new coordinator, hope he can teach it well to the players, and then hope the OC's ego doesn't get in the way to where he wants to start implementing some of his own stuff and possibly undermining Chan's offense. And I like that these guys aren't just specialists, but are overall football coaches. Chan is not only a good offensive guy, but he's also coached defense and special teams at points in his career and Modkins has not only coached RBs, but also TEs and DBs in his career. And reading the bios of Modkins that others have posted, it really look like he knows how to coach up RBs. Just think if Fred and Marshawn can both get even better, how scary will our running game be (provided the team can develop/fix the OL). The really important coaching hire will be the DC. Chan's going to have to rely on him to be a lot more independent when taking care of that side of the ball.

I was a little worried about Frazier at first because (like many others) I didn't want the Bills to stick with the Tampa 2 defense, I too was concerned maybe it wasn't the coaching, but the talent in MINN that made them a good D (obviously it always goes hand-in-hand), and maybe all the interviews he had received were only due to the Rooney rule. But I'm starting to warm up to him and this article helped...what helped sway me in the article was that he is not an exclusive cover 2 guy, he cut his teeth on a 4-3 and can do both...and more importantly that he was both Dungy's and Childress' soundboard and number 2 man. Two head coaches turned to him for advice and counsel. Dungy gave him an Asst to the Head Coach title while he was a DB coach and then Childress made him Asst Head Coach in MINN. And he did supposedly finish 2nd in two previous head coaching openings. So, I thought (maybe with rose-colored glasses to try and explain away my fear that the Bills are just totally inept) what if the coaching search went like this...talk to Shanny to gauge interest...Nix enters and makes his list, so what if his list was 1. Cowher, 2. Frazier. So, they meet with Cowher, give Perry his courtesy interview, and interview Frazier. Cowher looks doubtful and they are happy with the Frazier interview, so they make their decision, but have to wait for Minn to be out of the playoffs. To keep the fans and media somewhat at bay and to cover all of their bases in the meantime, they ask for interviews with Schotty, Grimm, and whoever else, who turn them down because they have inside info that Frazier is going to be the guy. Or maybe I'm just grasping at straws.

I really don't mean to sound condescending but I assume you guys are young and weren't around or old enough to watch the Marv teams of the 80s and 90s... I'm with you as far as saying Marv wasn't a good GM...it wasn't the job he wanted or was best/experienced at and basically was just brought in to make the fans comfortable with the team again after Donahoe's bunker mentality, but to claim he was a sub par coach is just crazy. A subpar coach doesn't have the following stat line even with great players: 11 seasons 110-65 (won 63% of his games) 7 division crowns 8 playoff appearences 5 AFC Championship games (one Ronnie Harmon drop from going to 6 AFC Championships) 4 Superbowls And don't bring up the AFC was weak thing...Marv's Bills went 14-2 against the NFC during the 4 Superbowl runs and the two loses were to WAS the last game of 1990 and DET last game of 1991 when the Bills had locked up home-field advantage and were resting players. In 1990 the Bills lost the SB on a kick that could have easily gone through and they win it, it was a great game and no one got outcoached...just 3 weeks earlier in the regular season the Bills had beat the Giants in another hard fought, nail-biter...two evenly matched teams and coaches. Ok, we got pounded in the next 3 Superbowls...WAS had a miracle year in 1991 and the Dallas lines were too big and good against us in 1992 and 1993...although we did beat them in the regular seson in 1993 between them beating us in two superbowls...but outside of those 3 games rarely if ever did I see a Marv team get outcoached in the 201 games that he coached for us. And if Marv is only considered great because he had great talent, then what do you say about Jimmy Johnson, are you telling me those Dallas teams weren't loaded (even more so than the Bills in 1992 and 1993)? What about every other coach that went to and won or lost a Superbowl? Plus, let's not forget what goes into a good head coach. I'm sure there are a million things, but what jumps out to me are Xs and Os, Game management, team/personnel management, and Leadership. I can't speak with enough authority on Marv's Xs and Os other than to say they won a hell of a lot of games, but I don't remember any big-time game management gaffs, Marv always had the players and coaches managed well and pulling in the same direction, and he was second to none as far as leadership and motivation. Marv was a great coach and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame...don't let his two years as a pseudo GM tarnish what he was, is, and always will be to Buffalo Bills fans.

Obviously Cowher was a head coach longer and had quite a bit of early success, but on just a whim I thought I would compare the two coaches stats during just the years they were both head coaches, especially since they coached in the same division, so they were meeting similar opponents and each other twice a year... Cowher coached Pitt from 1992 to 2006; Billick coached Bal from 1999 to 2007, so, their overlap years were 1999 to 2006. 1999 Pitt 6-10 Bal 8-8 2000 Pitt 9-7 Bal 12-4 won the superbowl 2001 Pitt 13-3 lost to NE in AFC Championship Bal 10-6 lost to Pitt in Divisional round of playoffs 2002 Pitt 10-5-1 lost to Tenn in Divisional round of playoffs Bal 7-9 2003 Pitt 6-10 Bal 10-6 lost to Tenn in Wild Card game 2004 Pitt 15-1 lost to NE in AFC Championship game Bal 9-7 2005 Pitt 11-5 won the Superbowl Bal 6-10 2006 Pitt 8-8 Bal 13-3 lost to Colts in divisional round So: Cowher 78-49-1 60.9375 winning % 5 winning seasons 4 playoff appearances 1 Superbowl Billick 75-53 58.59375 winning % 5 winning seasons 4 playoff appearances 1 Superbowl Head to Head in the regular season they faced each other 16 times with each coach winning 8 times; Cowher and the Steelers did win their only playoff meeting in 2001. Cowher would still be my first choice (if he wants to come), he did go to the playoffs 6 of 7 years (1992-1998) before Billick took over in Baltimore. Overall Cowher made playoffs 10 of 15 years, Billick made playoffs 4 of 9 years...but maybe Cowher doesn't make as many playoffs early on if Billick was coaching in Baltimore during those early years and they were battling for the division every year like they were from 1999-2006. Anyhow, while they were both coaching in the same division things were pretty even, so maybe overall there isn't as big a difference as many of us may have assumed. I'd be more than ok with Billick if Cowher doesn't want to come.

In the Vic Carucci thread someone said that on Sirius radio Vic said the talent level was so bad on the Bills team that 1/2 to 2/3 of the roster would be cut under new management. So it got me wondering who I and the rest of you think are worthy of sticking around if (I mean when, please when) we get a new GM and head coach. I pasted the roster below for easy reference and listed who I think would or should stay below that. What do you all think? ROSTER # NAME POS. HT. WT. AGE YRS. COLLEGE 77 Bell, Demetrius OL 6-5 307 25 1 Northwestern State University 31 Byrd, Jairus S 5-10 200 23 R Oregon 73 Chambers, Kirk T 6-7 315 30 5 Stanford 27 Corner, Reggie CB 5-9 175 25 2 University of Akron 57 Corto, Jon LB 6-1 220 25 2 Sacred Heart 92 Denney, Ryan DE 6-7 264 32 8 BYU 52 Draft, Chris LB 5-11 234 33 11 Stanford 5 Edwards, Trent QB 6-4 231 26 3 Stanford 93 Ellis, Chris DE 6-4 261 24 2 Virginia Tech 56 Ellison, Keith LB 6-0 229 25 4 Oregon State 83 Evans, Lee WR 5-10 197 28 6 Wisconsin 86 Fine, Derek TE 6-3 247 26 2 Kansas 14 Fitzpatrick, Ryan QB 6-2 225 26 4 Harvard 29 Florence, Drayton CB 6-0 195 28 7 Tuskegee 10 Hamdan, Gibran QB 6-4 220 28 3 Indiana 63 Hangartner, Geoff OL 6-5 301 27 5 Texas A&M 84 Hardy, James WR 6-5 220 23 2 Indiana 54 Harris, Nic LB 6-2 232 23 R Oklahoma 22 Jackson, Fred RB 6-1 215 28 3 Coe College 17 Jenkins, Justin WR 6-0 207 28 3 Mississippi State 91 Johnson, Spencer DT 6-3 286 27 6 Auburn 13 Johnson, Steve WR 6-2 202 23 2 University of Kentucky 35 Johnson, Todd DB 6-1 204 30 6 Florida 90 Kelsay, Chris DE 6-4 261 30 7 Nebraska 25 Lankster, Ellis CB 5-9 190 22 R West Virginia 67 Levitre, Andy OL 6-2 305 23 R Oregon State 9 Lindell, Rian K 6-3 233 32 10 Washington State 23 Lynch, Marshawn RB 5-11 215 23 3 Cal 58 Maybin, Aaron DE 6-4 250 21 R Penn State 97 McCargo, John DT 6-2 307 26 4 NC State 24 McGee, Terrence CB 5-9 198 29 7 Northwestern State 38 McIntyre, Corey FB 6-0 258 30 5 West Virginia 68 McKinney, Seth OL 6-3 310 30 8 Texas A&M 69 Meredith, Jamon OL 6-5 304 23 R South Carolina 8 Moorman, Brian P 6-0 172 33 9 Pittsburgh State 89 Nelson, Shawn TE 6-5 240 24 R Southern Mississippi 81 Owens, Terrell WR 6-3 224 35 14 Tennessee-Chattanoog 59 Palmer, Ashlee LB 6-1 236 23 R Mississippi 11 Parrish, Roscoe WR 5-9 178 27 5 Miami (Fla.) 51 Posluszny, Paul LB 6-1 238 25 3 Penn State 82 Reed, Josh WR 5-10 210 29 8 LSU 65 Sanborn, Garrison LS 6-0 240 24 R Florida State 94 Schobel, Aaron DE 6-4 243 32 9 TCU 43 Scott, Bryan S 6-1 219 28 7 Penn State 79 Scott, Jonathan OL 6-6 318 26 3 Texas 99 Stroud, Marcus DT 6-6 310 31 9 Georgia 88 Stupar, Jonathan TE 6-3 254 25 1 Virginia 21 Wendling, John S 6-1 222 26 3 Wyoming 20 Whitner, Donte S 5-10 208 24 4 Ohio State 95 Williams, Kyle DT 6-1 306 26 4 Louisiana State 37 Wilson, George S 6-0 212 28 4 Arkansas 70 Wood, Eric OL 6-4 315 23 R Louisville 26 Youboty, Ashton CB 5-11 189 25 4 Ohio State INJURED RESERVE # NAME POS. HT. WT. AGE YRS. COLLEGE 53 Buggs, Marcus LB 5-10 223 24 2 Vanderbilt 60 Butler, Brad OL 6-7 315 26 4 Virginia 25 Hairston, Justise RB 6-1 210 26 1 Central Connecticut 71 McGhee, Jermaine DE 6-2 257 25 1 Prairie View A&M 28 McKelvin , Leodis CB 5-10 184 24 2 Troy 55 Mitchell, Kawika LB 6-1 253 30 7 South Florida 61 Philip, Marvin C 6-1 307 27 1 California 40 Sargeant, Lydell DB 6-1 187 22 R Penn State 80 Schouman, Derek TE 6-2 223 24 3 Boise State 98 Smith, Marcus DE 6-4 295 25 1 Arizona PRACTICE SQUAD # NAME POS. HT. WT. AGE YRS. COLLEGE 42 Hall, Bruce RB 5-11 205 24 1 Mississippi 47 Harris, Cary DB 5-11 187 22 R USC 18 Hawthorne, C.J. WR 5-11 168 25 1 Hawaii 74 Hennessey, Nick OL 6-5 291 23 R Colgate 15 Huggins, Felton WR 6-2 186 26 1 Southeastern Louisia 75 Mace, Corey DT 6-3 287 23 2 Wyoming 76 Ramsey, Andre OL 6-5 322 22 R Ball State 50 Waters, Anthony LB 6-3 238 So, my amateur opinion would be (based on talent-level alone, I didn't take into consideration their salary or contracts or numbers at particular positions, etc.): Definitely Keep Jarius Byrd Lee Evans Marshawn Lynch Fred Jackson Eric Wood Marcus Stroud Brian Moorman Terrence McGee Leodis McKelvin Paul Posluszny Shawn Nelson Andy Levitre Reggie Corner Kyle Williams (even if we were to upgrade and he wasn't starting) Definitely Keep due to potential (even if not starter) Demetius Bell Steve Johnson Aaron Maybin Nic Harris Would Probably Keep Rian Lindell Aaron Schobel (although could be a victim due to age and injuries) Bryan Scott (seems solid) Brad Butler (would be happy with him as a backup swing OL) On the Bubble Trent Edwards (a lot rides on how he finishes out this season) Drayton Florence Geoff Hangartner Chris Kelsay (although I do think he's played well this year) Ellis Lankster Terrell Owens (who knows what's going on with him) James Hardy (could he break out in third year?) Jamon Meredith Donte Whitner Kawika Mitchell George Wilson (just because I like him) Lydell Sargeant (Don't really know enough yet one way or the other) Ashlee Palmer (ditto) Ashton Youbouty (although injury history may totally ruin his chances) As harsh as it sounds, everyone else looks expendable or easily replaceable to me. It might take some time to replace them, but I don't know that we would ever miss them. So, out of 71 players (including IR and Practice Squad) I would definitely keep 18 players, would probably keep 4 more, and maybe 6 to 9 more from the bubble guys...so that's 28-31 of 71 or an average of keeping only 39% to 44% of the players currently with the team. I really expected when I started this that I would disagree with Carucci and say that it wouldn't be nearly as high as two thirds, but my list isn't far from that. If only two of the bubble players were to stick around we'd be at Vic's two thirds. What do you all think? Anyone I forgot? Anyone I listed you wouldn't keep around? Are we really this bad?

With Fred playing so well in the first two games it seemed that we didn't miss Marshawn as much we thought we might...but I was wondering if we did really miss him in the New Orleans game. With the way the NO D-line was playing would we have had a better chance in that game if we were pounding the middle with Marshawn early in the game even if we weren't making big plays at first, just to start to wear them down and then when Fred came in they'd have to adjust to his game, and then switch them up and keep their D off balance. Maybe I'm just clutching at straws, but could Marshawn's return be just what this offense needs to get moving again? (Along with the O-line staying healthy and progressing, of course). Beauty and the Beast (our version of thunder and lightning)...here's to hoping. Marshawn's response when a reporter asked him if sitting the 3 games made him hungrier to play: "I'm always hungry and now it's time to eat."

Like San Jose Bills Fan said, this move had nothing to do with John Guy...this was all about our College/Draft staff and then maybe what the coaches saw in the preseason. And since we were looking for OTs in the draft they probably scouted this guy out and knew a lot about him. Despite what many say about Brandon being a marketing guy, we have had some real good drafts under his watch and with Nix added to the mix it looks like our College staff is pretty darn good, so I'm excited about this move...homegrown Oline is going to be better than journeyman or past-their-prime vets line, the youngs guys may stumble here and there, but the future is looking good. Now these moves were John Guy (except for letting Peters go)...I guess we know where the weak link on the staff is and why the team may have gone in the direction they did this time around. And I'm sure the way our young (smart/athletic) Olinemen are playing probably gave the coaches/FO some confidence to go with another young (smart/atheletic) guy. Everyone was so worried that we didn't draft an OT after Peters left...and now its basically like we did, a fifth rounder with a lot of potential that some had projected as high as the 2nd round. And did you see the kid's arms and shoulders in video 3 that gflande1 posted on page 7?

I think these guys summed it up best...why fight over who is number one/starting? It doesn't matter if it is Evans or Owens or Lynch or Jackson...they will all be productive (hopefully) doing what each one does best and they're all going to get their touches and help out the team. Fred and Marshawn are going to be a two-headed monster...with these two backs, we can spread you out or pound it down your throat... the only thing I would say is that Marshawn (and f'n MacGahee) could learn a lot from Fred about being a more patient back and waiting for your blocks to set up...that definitely reminded me of TT as Reed83Evans pointed out how Fred set up and patiently worked off his blocks.

When was the last time we saw our O-line making significant blocks on the second level let alone on the third level? These guys we're making successful blocks down the field...look at Freddy's TD...Hangartner makes a key block on the outside at the second level and Levitre and Evans are at the goal line blocking (10 yards from the line of scrimmage) to get Fred in the endzone. So much for big, slow, soft lineman...bring on the young, smart, athletic guys who can pull and finish blocks. Things are looking up (despite the heartbreaking loss)...as soon as these guys have more experience, more knowledge of eachother, and cut down on the rookie mistakes...they could be scarey good. And even though we lost, loved watching us kill the Pats early and often with the screen...I've seen way too many games where it was the reverse.