Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

I'm not really trying to give him credit for the football side of things as he had little if anything to do with making any football related decisions even when he was the GM. But the reverse is I'm not blaming him either. Don't know if he sucks as a football mind because again he's made little if any choices. Was he still leading the football side, did he sign off on things sure. so what would I give him credit for from a football side of things. Well for the last half dozen or so years the team still did well enough to sell out the majority of their games, generated some brief excitement over time and these things helped generate a $1.4bil sale price and keep the team in Buffalo. Are these more business related things, sure, but if every year the team had been 2-14, and had 20,000 people in the stands like in the late 70's I doubt the team would have sold for anything close to what it did and maybe as we speak the moving vans would be packing up for the move to LA by now My overall point is given the limited amount of money he had to work with and all the uncertainty around RW, he did a pretty amazing job over the years, and he has made little football related decisions. Were most of the people he hired to make the football moves bad hires, sure, but again with the money he had to work with what would you expect. For ten years or so he's bee nable to make chicken soup out of chicken s**t which is pretty amazing IMO This is the first season RB is not limited by RW's purse strings, though we really have no idea where TP stands on this either, we're all just assuming he's going to agree to spend more money.

RB did what he was able to do with the money RW and Littman allowed him to work with. That's why Littman left the same day the team was sold, he followed RW's edicts around money to the Tee. Why would RB not want to spend more of RW's money, it makes no sense for him to want to limit the $$. If the team spent more money maybe the team would have won more which would have made RB look even better. I agree completely with your comment about Littman and Overdorf, though even with Overdorf, not sure he wasn't just following the marching orders he was given. But please don't include Brandon in that list as it makes no sense for him to want to spend less money.

Conversely can you show evidence that he was out there scouting players and making involved football decisions? If eballs comments that he fired himself aren't rue, then how and whom removed him from the position? By the time he left the GM position RW unfortunately wasn't doing much more than staring at the walls. That was the problem until two seasons ago when RW realized he couldn't do it anymore, no one was really steering the ship. So likely RW would have been the only person to fire RB and considering his entire lack of involvement with anything team related his last few season, hard to see him doing that. I highly doubt Mary Wilson would have stepped in and did it, so who's left. Further, how often do you see a GM get fired from a position with the team and still stay with the team, and two years later promoted to a position to become the GM's boss. IUt just doesn't happen. If RB really wanted the GM position so bad, he could have easily ran Whaley off by vetoing everything he did over the past two seasons. So does eball have a link, no, he's just connecting the dots in an intelligent manor as opposed to just having complete hatred for the guy and blaming him for everything and never accepting anything that sounds logical that would give him any type of credit.

Doesn't appear to very up to date when still talking about moving to Toronto??

Not only did he work as one of them, but also has experience as a GM, though I do think it was a more symbolic position and completely agree with eballs comment that he resigned and doubt he ever even wanted to be the GM in the first place. He probably also would be the first commissioner with a sports marketing background which when you consider the other owners biggest want it to make more money, what could be better than his background.

Yes when football related, non-football injuries you have no right to know. I will agree that whenever these things are kept secret it does create more speculation and rumor and posts just like this, but too bad, that's just the way it goes.

I think if he leaves Buffalo it's go to the NFL office. I could see as commissioner somewhere down the road.

Really not knocking what Jerry has done, admittedly he has got better too as you stated. While he's done pretty well overall, I still think he's probably the least knowledgeable/experienced current GM out there particularly in the area of scouting and evaluating players. I figured I better add the word current for all the Russ B haters out there. But all things considered, done pretty well for himself. I do question if he's hurting the Cowboys though as being the owner and all the work that goes with it, how much time does he really have to do all the work as the GM too? Add on top of that the time spent in bars chasing around young women is got to take a toll on him.

He attacked someone or did something crazy long after he was out of football from what I recall. I also do recall that catch!

Doesn't matter how long they've been together or not. My point is that all this dribble that Marrone will never fire his buddy based on past history of other coaches is nonsense. They may be the same guy as you say, that's OK, but I think Marrone is smart enough to see that one of them isn't pulling his weight and would part ways. Maybe not, he may also recognize that the problems in his opinion lie elsewhere, i.e. personal, either way he he's not going to keep Hackert around because they are buddy's, not at a high level position.

I agree with most of Tipsters comments. As for Brandon, I think he stays through the upcoming season, or maybe only through May as often front office contracts expire post draft, then mutually agrees to depart. Next stop for RB is the NFL office to learn the inner working of the league, so that somewhere down the road he'll resurface as Commissioner Brandon! He's a good PR guy, great at marketing which is the biggest wants of the other owners. And he's had first hand experience running a team including as GM, though I do believe his role as Bill's GM was more symbolic than anything For years I've commented that Jerry Jones in the probably one of the most X's and O's football knowledgeable owner out there, but he's also one of the least football knowledgeable GM's out there as that's his problem as he's trying to be the GM. Same could be said for Russ, though one difference in RB's case don't think he ever really wanted to be the GM, but Marv's departure kind of forced it on him and he got out of that role quickly. Not sure either Sanchez or particularly Foles have enough experience themselves to be that shoulder to lean on for EJ, think you need someone who's been around longer. Mark80 to your comments: For a 1st year guy the punter has done pretty well. Isn't this Carpenter's 2nd year so Whaley then would have brought him in. Originally Whaley drafter the kid from Fl st who got hurt, then he signed Carpenter. He could have easily dumped Easley when he didn't work out as WR but kept him around for ST. He also brought in guys like Dixon and one of the defensive guys I believe is playing alot of ST too, so think he deserves much more credit for bringing in the players than you are giving him. But also shows that Marrone's choice on ST coach wasn't as bad as many here thought once he had players. Regarding the QB play of EJ, think you're missing Tipsters point, EJ wasn't a big time 1st round rookie so expecting him to be a Manning, or a Big Ben from day 1 and then ripping him for not being that. He needed leadership, Orton gave him that, will it help him next season, who knows we''ll find out. Don't think anyone is saying EJ will be a great QB, but he could be as good as a Flacco you put RG III in that list, how'd that work out? Most of the guys you list; Peyton, Eli, Big Ben, Flacco, Luck, Ryan were QB's on college teams that were good but not great, so they may have been the best player on their college team and became the leader. EJ never really was asked to be the leader at Fl State so expecting him to come in as a rookie and become the leader add to that maybe also doesn't have the greatest skill set, is unrealistic.

Well if he wasn't happy with that, he probably should never have agreed to be an NFL coach. This year it's kind of unique in that Chicago, Oakland, Atlanta, and SF all fired their HC and have good QB situations. Most seasons that doesn't happen, in particular with a 1st time head coach he's going to walk into a situation with a bad QB. So was Marrone likely happy, no, but I'd be surprised if he truly expected much better. And if he did want better then maybe he should have stayed in college. And to the 2nd season scenario of your back up QB's regressing, well Whaley could very easily dump that on Marrone's coaching of them just as Whaley could blame the O-line issues on Marrones coaching or lack there of. So yes, could see Marrone being angry at Whaleys decisions but from Whaleys view could just as easily claim these problems developed due to Marrone's poor coaching and throw it right back on him.

Well you have to look at the overall intelligence of most posters here. These posters who think Marrone all suck want to see Frank Reich as HC even though he's getting blasted in San Diego and think Bill Pollien is the answer and will solve the QB issues here just like he did in Indy with Painter as Mannings backup. The point being most posters here completely over react and look at everything as a fan, not as a person in the business looks at things. Even the press, they look at things objectively for the most part. With the exception being columnists as their job is to stir the pot, but that's why ESPN is reporting that Marrone would have serios interest, and fans here don't understand that.

I doubt anything happens before this 3 day window ends and you know Marrone's status. All this talk of there's no way Marrone fires his buddy, it's like committing suicide, etc is completely stupid and what evidence does anyone have to support that. He may be asked to fire him and not agree and get fired himself, he may agree to it, or he may decide on his own to get rid of him. Any of these things can just as likely happen. Marrone didn't hire Hackert because they are buddies, he hired him because he felt they shared a smart offensive philosophy and this common bond is why they'd worked together in the past.and were comfortable together. People at these levels don't get to where they got hiring their buddies, they hire people they work well with. Every season every coach hires people they are comfortable with and often these guys will follow each other from job to job. Over the past years there's also been plenty of evidence of coaches hiring their so called buddies and then firing him a couple years later when things didn't work out, in fact you rarely hear of a coach refusing to fore an assistant with the exception of our old buddy Wade. I have no idea what will happen, but the one thing I'm 100% certain of is Marrone will either dump Hackert or keep him only if he feels he gives the Bills the most likelihood of offensive success next season. Not saying I agree with that or not, but he's not keeping him here because they are friends. Admittedly the line can get blurred easily as often the reason friendships develop is due to shared values and concepts, so yes they both very well may like eachother, but they also both understand this is business first. People need to stop thinking like 1st graders around here.

Gisele could sell millions of razors if they made a shaving commercial starring her.

As someone else pointed out a few weeks back, our ability to run the ball ended when he got hurt. So maybe not as bad as seemed. Put one of the top FA on one side, Williams the other guard, with Henderson and Glenn outside could be a big improvement., though do think Williams was much better at run blocking than pass blocking If they feel either Richardson or Kojo made big improvements as the season went on and could play well next season, then you have some depth. If not, sign a lower tier FA as backup in case of injury.

Still not sure they would have won the game either way as from what I recall they were doing nothing offensively. That may have been one of EJ's better passes in the game, just to the wrong team.

Let me guess you don't like Russ B very much?? Considering where things were with respect to Bills long term ownership at the time of Marrone's signing, it sounds like a reasonable thing to request and agree to. A 3 day window doesn't give much time for someone to do anything within, so would have to be a really bad situation for him to take the plunge. While you're on a roll, why not blame Russ for the 7 foot snowstorm that hit Buffalo too. Somehow he must be responsible for that too based on your line of thinking. Actually that probably has more credibility than your thoughts!

We don't know this for a fact, we assume it to be true based on everything TP has stated, but things haven't exactly worked out great for the Sabres either. Granted, I'd suspect we'd have much less trouble getting a good coach now, but would be interesting to see. I do agree with some of the comments that Atlanta and SF would be good landing spots with a decent QB in place. I suppose thinking about it some more with the alleged friction between him and Whaley, maybe it could be true. We can only hope that part of the opt out clause requires him to take his OC with him!!

You are correct, you did say trade, but still just as unlikely to happen as no new coach would ever trade a good QB for whatever we or likely any team could offer. (unless a team offers Arron Rodgers for Ryan). My response was whether you trade him or cut him you're still getting rid of him and thta never happens when the team has a good QB in place. Of all the HC openings Atlanta may be the most appealing only because they have an above average QB on the roster. Harbaugh got rid of Smith two seasons later so if the new coach in Atlanta follows your idea as you say "to the tee" how would that help Buffalo this off-season so I don't see how this is the same either, plus Smith was no where near a franchise level QB. Some could argue that neither is Ryan, but he's very close to that level, and would be a huge upgrade in Buffalo. I'd love it to happen, but it's not going to, at least not for the reasons you state.

I'm mis-worded?? How about you?? Your post was based on the premise that the new coach in Atlanta is going to dump Ryan to bring in his own guy and we can get Ryan this off-season. Then you argue how Harbaugh did that, yes as you said two years later after he felt he had a better replacement in house. So maybe two years from now, we can hope the new coach in Atlanta dumps Ryan just like Harbaugh did. Maybe if Atlanta could get a QB in the next two months better than Ryan, they may decide to dump him, but considering he's probably in the top dozen or so rated QB's, where is that guy coming from? What team in the league would give up a top ten QB? Any BTW, there's a huge difference in the abilities and ranking of Alex Smith Vs Matt Ryan. At the time it was about 50/50 on whether the 49er's made the right move to dump Smith as he had one (plus the half when he got hurt) very good season. Now it looks like it may have been a mistake, but at that time dumping Smith wasn't going out on much more of a limb than us dumping Fitz.

Neither Harbaugh or Rex meet your concept of the coach getting rid of the QB to bring in "his guy" as the coach was there at least a year prior to them cutting the QB, Ryan had like what three years under his belt with Sanchez before parting ways. And in the Bill's case the team was getting rid of him because they felt he wasn't very good and was overpaid. Kind of supports my comment that the reason a new coach gets rid of the old QB was because he wasn't very good, and that was why the coach got fired to begin with, the team was bad due to bad QB play. So of your four examples only one of them supports your initial augment and that was Manning. But even there was a rather unique situation in that they planned to draft Luck, plus no one knew if Manning was ever even going to play again. So I'll ask again give me examples where a brand new coach got rid of a good QB (that wasn't injured) It doesn't happen!!

Can you give me even three examples of that when the team had a good QB, even with a bad QB?? Think you have things mixed up a bit. HC and GM's bring in their own guys as in their own coaches, but that's about as far as I've ever seen it go. Coaches of winning teams rarely get fired, it's usually losing teams which often is the result of bad QB play, so often when a team goes to a new HC, they will get rid of the old QB because he sucked and they may even bring in a QB from the coaches former team. Seen that happen, but never a new coach get rid of an above average QB.

Since.... Orton retired!

If the Bills had won the Oakland and KC games, then could see him getting interest from others. 6-10 and 9-7 isn't likely enough to land another HC job or even a high profile college HC job, which unless he knows he can walk into one of them can't see him leaving just to test the waters.