Rochesterfan

I agree reed with this. Sal C. Also stated earlier this week on the Rochester radio scene that his understanding was that Dennison has worked with the team to incorporate several TT specific packages and plays, but that in doing that they needed TT to also work to meet the other requirements of the offense - most decidedly getting the ball out on time. His take on this was that Dennison held up his end of the bargain, but TT was not holding up his side. This went right down to the 4th quarter of the Saints game where they were asking him to open things up and he still couldn’t.

Exactly - Romo repeatedly talked about how to beat the Jets pressure was a quick throw and he praised him the one or two times it worked, but repeatedly showed missed plays also that just need to occur.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. You can get a pretty good idea on a player in 1/2 a season. Not perfect, but an idea. It it also tells you about the OC and if he is a major part of the problem or was it QB limitations. This is something I think they needed to do last year with 4 or 5 games left to better evaluate the team. We saw something similar under Marrone, but in reverse. Benching an ineffective EJ for Orton and although we did not get the desired results - it showed me the offensive struggles of year 1 and early year 2 and the lack of passing was a result of EJ not Hackett. Hackett was average, but you saw a distinct shift in the offense under Orton to more what Hackett wanted to do, but could not with EJ. I think you will get something similar with this move - a better indication of what Dennison would like to do.

Agreed - not only that, but how many times when a team is down Big does the QB throw for for a ton of yards because he is trying everything to move the team. The Bills both last week and this week do not show urgency and do not make many plays. They made the change at QB and got in and out of the huddle faster, threw more, and generally looked like a team making a move. They need more of that late in games when trailing.

I agree - there are some bad things, but it would really make a defense think - especially as they are very different. You would have to be willing to allow TT to throw and run some PA and have to let Peterman roll out, but it could be done. I just think if you are developing a scheme you want to run - get the best guy in there and playing.

I agree and this is part of the issue with TT stats. He would most likely complete the pass because the guys at the 50 both can turn around and come to a dead stop and be open and get no yards after catch. I would expect with Peterman - much like in the preseason and against the Saints - he will make throws into spots that TT will not make with any consistency. This will open up a lot of things, but at the same time - there will be throws like the 3rd down incompletion to KB that went through his hands - that are not the best of choices because a LB or safety dropped their coverage to get in an underneath throwing lane. Those throws become turnovers that we would not see with TT. My complaint about TT is and has been exactly what you said here - hitting the underneath target and not only hitting the underneath target, but hitting them late - so there is no room for the player to make a play. Look at the throws that Robert Woods is seeing in LA and compare those to the throw here with TT. The difference in LA is that Woods is getting the ball on breaks and with a bit of space to make plays and in Buffalo it was turnaround and wait for the throw as you stand there. The other pattern TT is famous for is hitting the WR just before they go out of bounds again no chance for a play by the WR. I think we have had enough talent at WR and TE the last couple of years, but that talent does not show when your QB does not make the plays. It started in game 1 with the Int on the first drive against the NYJs and has been the same throughout - TT is late with throws and misses the windows and has to hold the ball way to long because he missed the initial breaks. He is capable of making plays, but they are delayed plays once everything has settled down and he has time to read and process the field and that is causing issues.

I think you hit hit the nail on the head, but you are just looking at it a bit off kilter. They know what kind of offense they want to run and they know that TT is a 1 year stop gap - so you implement your offense and see who can make plays, but you understand that the plays are not going to be as smooth. You can still evaluate route runners and how they get in and out of breaks based upon film. This has always been a transition year. I think that that they could have done more to implement plays that TT does well, but TT is a unique athlete and therefore anything you create offensively falls apart if you have to switch him out. It would also require a totally different set of WRs -speed guys for the outside and a different blocking scheme. That would then have set the team back next year because they do not have the other parts to run the offense they want - when they get a better more capable QB. TT is a good transition guy and because he makes so very few dangerous throws - he keeps his turnovers low and that is something a defensive HC loves. I think they knew there would be struggles, but just like Rex - they knew if they could get the defense and special teams working - TT would not blow the game. He will not win a game for you, but he will not make the Cutleresque interception at the end of the half that costs your team the game. Only if if that is what they want to do going forward. If as I suspect they are looking long term and TT is not part of that - then they are building for the future QB with a stop gap. They purposefully changed the entire WR Corp out to fit the WCO and are adjusting the blocking to fit what they want to do when they get their QB. Everything this year was trying to win with the players they have while building for the future. That means you are going to have some bad scheme fits, but you are seeing who fits going forward. The scheme may or may not work long term, but they were not trying to build a system to fit TT - they are looking long term and QB can make a huge change to how a scheme runs - just look at the end of the Saints game and how different the offense looked with Peterman.

Incorrect. His first drive had 1 first down and a ball that went through KB hands for a first down and what appeared to be our only audible of the game - stopped on 4th down. The second drive he continued doing the same things as the first drive and his preseason and moved the team to a TD. He had more yards in 1 drive than TT had all game. That includes the end of the 3rd quarter and the 4th where the Saints defense was in the same prevent and TT still could not move the ball.

I think this is correct for most positions - QB is a bit different. The QB is the key to the entire offense and it would set back every other player; OL, RB, WR, TE - if you design an offense around TT, but plan to move on from him. You could get some short term success, but it would impact the long term plans. TT is such a unique player - his offensive design does not fit with anything else other QBs can do - that makes it that much more difficult to design around him. You saw in preseason the difference in the offense when TT was out versus when TT started - the 2 offenses looked very different. If Peterman was ready - I think they make the change - that is what they are looking for in a QB and what the offense is designed for. Again I think it is a long term plan with TT as a place holder while they evaluate what they want as a QB. I think if they could have gotten Hoyer this offseason- that would have been your starting QB with Peterman learning from the journeyman QB rather than TT. This year was about planning and finding fits - everything else was gravy.

The issue is you have new coaches with a long term vision and a QB that is just a stop gap. The Bills had a choice - install an offense that fits TT and try to build that (what the last regime did) or design and offense and decide what kind of QB you need for next year and long term. They are going with the latter - install the offense they want to run long term and see who fits and build from that and find the QB and it is the right call. If the Bills try to build the offense around TT - then you need specific players and if he gets hurt it is nearly impossible to replace his athleticism so you would need to make a change. If you install your system and look to make a change at QB - you are 1 year ahead in terms of guys already knowing what to do. The other thing is Dennison does not nail TT in the pocket - look at how reams are rushing us - send your DE’s up the field to keep TT in the pocket. Roll-outs are no where near as effective if the opposing Defense does not respect what you are doing from the pocket. The Saints DE’ were not rushing the passer as setting the edges to keep TT in the pocket. In the end - Dennison gets some blame, but you need a true QB to run this system and that has never been TT. He makes plays, but if you watch the all 22 or listen to the ex QBs in the booth (or yesterday an ex DB) - they keep repeating the same thing - he has to get the ball out. They showed guys open on the broadcast video, but TT would pull the trigger at the 3 step or 5 step drop. That is on the QB - the offense is designed to get the ball out quick and yet we have the longest snap to throw time in the NFL. That is on your QB.

Look this thread has been crazy. You have one group talking about him being a franchise QB and other group talking about him being terrible - the fact is TT is exactly what he has been - he is not a great QB, but he usually makes few mistakes. He is not and never should be considered a franchise QB. He has always been a place holder, but it is obvious this offense is not going to do any favors for TT. TT puts up consistent numbers, but he does not make the plays necessary to be a long term successful QB. I think the offense will look totally different with Peterman. I think quick decisions and throwing in rhythm will make the offense look better - I just do not think he is as stable as TT because he is not quite ready, but honestly I think a change would make a lot of the o-line issues go away. In the end - I think TT will get a couple of more starts, but I would not be surprised if it at some point he is permanently benched here. They need more out of the position. I do not think TT is the reason we lost either game, but he also is not the answer. 3 years and the exact same issues - it is time to move on from the failed experiment.

I am hitting Stadium wall either at the top or bottom of the page. Seems to work just like before - running on an i-pad. Miss the go to first unread post when you go into a thread.

Look stats be damned - if you watch the 2 QBs in crunch time there is a huge difference between RW and TT. What makes RW so great is how he plays when he is needed most. He makes plays all over the field and at the end of halves and games - RW throws the ball anyplace he wants and he tends to score as much as anyone and put his team in a position to win. Hell even this weekend he plays terrible most game, but gets the TD to take the lead - His D may lose it for him, but the passes he made on that drive were a thing of beauty. We have seen TT do something similar one time against Miami and the D lost it for him. Most of the rest of the time TT moves it with his legs with a throw here or there. Again TT does what he can, but he is not a franchise QB. He is a bridge QB that when things go well he won’t lose, but he also does not put the team on his shoulders and start flinging dimes to WRs all over the field to get a win.

So what happened all of the other games with TT in shotgun. He was good in those two games and not good in other games with the same offense. Then we hear complaints about trying to run out of shotgun and why it causes issues. TT is what he is - I think the offense under Dennison needs a better QB - especially someone to eat the ball out quicker. TT does what he can, but he is limited and slow in progression - that is just who he is. He he played ok versus the Jets, but the Jets knew what they wanted - rush 5 and keep him in the pocket and it worked. The Bills lost because of TOs and defense, but much as the last 2 years the QB does not make better.

I would disagree fully. The last several weeks show exactly what we have - a QB that does enough to win if everything else is working fine, but not good enough if anything goes wrong. He is Alex Smith 2.0 - a bit better athletically, but not as good of a passer and plays with less anticipation. TT is a stopgap and if they draft a guy high then great bring him back to hold down the fort, but he can not be a teacher to the young kid - unless you get Watson or Lamar Jackson type.

Thought that same thing - here is another guys the Browns could of had as a veteran - since they traded for him and all. Cut him and then try to trade for others. poor Browns fans.

Amazing the Bills can get a deal done with under 3 minutes and get it all in and approved. Thank god for a competent front office. for Beane!

Wow - this on top of the anger of the coaching staff with the Garapolo deal. This team is just the definition of dysfunction. The coaching staff complained because the front office was gone yesterday before 5pm and the Garapolo trade went down in the evening and the coaching staff had to let the front office know. What a joke. Might as well have Buddy Nix asleep for FA.

There are things that he has done this year - the throw to Tate for a TD is a good example - where did that throw come from and why does he make it there, but misses other opportunities. Yes - I know all QBs miss opportunities, but if you are going to make very limited throws - you need to reduce the missed opportunities- just like the turnovers. Just as I did not think the end of last year defined him - I do not think anything you see the rest of this year will define him - his definition is already out there. He is defined. He is exactly what you said an average QB. He does not suck, but he also does not deserve a starting job - he deserves to compete for a starting job and a smart team would be looking for ways to move on - which is what the Bills are doing. I wanted to see what EJ could do last year (in a meaningful game not that joke of a game against NY) because what we need to know is TT holding back the offense or is he making the offense and the team around him sucks. I feel the same way this year - I would love to see what Peterman could do with a full week of prep work in a meaningful game to know if what we are seeing is design flaws or QB flaws. We saw it under Marrone when he benched EJ for Orton- the entire offense changed. The team became a passing offense and although Orton was Orton and had a ton of warts - you suddenly saw what the offense could do and that the OC was hampered by QB play under EJ. Currently as we are on TT's 3rd OC - I would love to know if the limitations that they all seem to impose on TT are QB flaw driven or have we had 3 really bad OC's? EJ was never the answer to show us anything, but you did see 2 years ago when TT was out - a lot of throws by EJ into areas that TT would not throw consistently- you also saw why EJ was a back-up with the turnovers. I want to see if a guy willing to throw on time makes the offense move better or does it lead to more mistakes and we need that steady play at the position.

Great - yet his best games are against Seattle and Denver teams that top Elite level defenses and are games he he had no Sammy Watkins at all. Games against Oakland (one of the worst pass defenses and having Sammy Watkins) was some of his worst play. We had well over 200 yards rushing and got very little from the passing game. The defense let us down in the game, but we also needed more out of the QB position. i think TT does better against some Man defense where he can tell his guy is open and several top defenses run mostly man. He really struggles against good zone and combo defenses where you need to throw into specific windows to be good. Denver and Seattle- he could see if his guys were open and delivered the ball. Carolina this year ran combo covers and typically plays a lot of zone and they switched it up and TT and the offense never adjusted. Would he be better with all kinds of weapons against a bottom tier defense? Probably, but history has shown us that his best games are against better defenses and his top couple of games are without Sammy.

Lot's of interesting stuff, but being honest do you really think it matters at all to TT's game? I can honestly say - I do not believe the strength of the defense matters one little bit to TT's game. He has had some of his best games against top flight elite level defenses and some of his worst games against teams in the very bottom of the league in terms of pass defense. Week to week he plays a very similar games - completes enough passes to move the ball, but not enough to be a difference maker. He keeps us in games by managing turnovers, but does not do enough to pull out games routinely at the end. The difference between winning and losing is can our defense keep us in the lead throughout - if that happens TT can help maintain the lead and win, but if the team falls behind - it is an uphill struggle to win the game. I appreciate all of the effort, but I think it amounts to absolutely nothing. TT is about as steady as you can get - it just is not good enough to be a viable winning franchise. I expect the next couple of weeks will play out like the first couple of weeks did - a few good games, a few sub par games and about 50 more threads from both cults that push their agendas with no room to see that he is what he is and what he has been. The line has little impact, the WRs, the TEs, the oppents defense - none of that has much impact on the game.

Explain Cam Newton going number 1 then - if race and mobility is what dropped TT - then why did it not impact Cam. TT was a late round pick because of his size and his accuracy/passing ability. If he was 6-5 and 240 with the same athletic ability he had - he might have gone higher. If he had won in college - he may have gone higher. What you have is a guy with rare athletic talent - maybe only 1 or 2 guys ever have been as gifted from the QB position to move the way he does. The difference is what is lacking in his game and that has nothing to do with the color of his skin. He is a hard worker, he is a good leader, but he is a below average QB that needs a lot of help. I understand there is a lot more to the article, but this is the reason the author chose to highlight those quotes- it brings attention to an article that could stand on its merits, but in this bait click era (an the BN with their new pay wall is feeding this) the controversy is what sells. Two thumbs down To both the BN for promoting it this way and this poster for feeding into it.

The Union needs to look for another Upshaw. The players have lost almost 7% of the total revenue since D. Smith took over and all they got a decrease in practice time for losing the money. It also seems to lead to a few more injuries because the players are not in game shape. D. Smith has been bad for the players and he is going to make it worse because he is already looking to fight the wrong battles - spending huge money on court cases because he did not do his job at the bargaining table and he refuses to work with the league on anything. Upshaw worked with the league (some may say to close), but he got the players things and he did it without lawsuits and threats.

AFL - they made it clear already - they are using the federal standard. If a Bronco player got it legally from a Colorado Doctor and tested positive- BAM no difference that a Buffalo player - into the treatment program. It is allowed in several states, but is still a federal crime and the new administration is looking to go back on it legality at the state level.

I disagree with this completely- the timeout is always a consideration. Think about the impact if he challenges and loses the challenge there. We get the ball back with 40 seconds and 1 timeout or we get the ball with about 20 seconds and 2 timeouts left and we basically kneel and let the half end - that potentially changes the entire outlook of the game. Instead we have 42 seconds - 2 timeouts and we go for points. That decision had huge implications for a replay that gets overturned very rarely and this year even less than past years.