Rochesterfan

Yet when they got a real QB in Orton the offense opened up. Maybe it is not the offense, but the QB. 2 Weeks of very average (at best) play out of the position.

You mean the same Watkins that has 8 catches for less yards than Matthews when Matthews is on a run first team. I think if Sammy was on the team - we would be hearing complaints about throw me the ball and he would be a non-factor.

LOL - funny stuff

Yeah - that was a killer - throw it to a guy covered with 2 guys coming at you. Right in the game flow a wide open TE for a first down, but TT stares at 1 receiver and doesn't follow progressions at all.

They ran some screens - the QB does not throw slants - he throws outs and corners to guys very late. There were serval times where you could see open guys underneath that TT did not see. He is what he he at this point - a very average QB that cannot read a defense. He was average last week and straight up low tier this week.

Agree it was close but when the DB goes down it gets called

He gave him a chance, but that throw was terrible and not the first bad throw he has had.

Disagree - everyone was close and they got the play off in under 13 seconds. The QB on 2 straight plays needs to either throw it away or try to fit it someplace- the QB screwed up by running the ball when we need to pass.

No kidding - had him right in time and refused to throw it and gets sacked. Terrible.

Already been said with first drive - LOL

I agree fully- it is easy to diagnose after the fact, but live it may be difficult, but I think you are right that is what differentiates QBs at the his level. I think that is why a guy like Peyton could play the way he does, but I do not think he could teach someone to do what he did.

This is literally exactly what I said in the TT thread. My issue is the safety Adams (I think) is the key. TT first read is to Zay, but the key is Adams. TT knows that Zay is coming toward the middle and that Clay is moving from the middle out. QB 101 on that play is what does the safety do. TT is looking right at him and the safety drifts outside and back. Immediately in his drop - TT should be thinking the throws goes to Clay and he should of hit the end of his drop and hit Clay right after the break at the 3 yard line with no one around him. Instead TT keeps watching Zay and finally slides 2 steps 2 the left in the pocket and comes off to Clay. He makes an acceptable throw to Clay and one that I would of like to see caught, but Clay is running toward the sideline with his shoulders toward the sideline And the throw is behind him. That is a difficult catch. Most back shoulder throws are a guy running down field and then stopping and turning back , but this was a guy going 1 way having to reach behind him. It is not impossible, but it is not a catch everyone makes - especially knowing he hit is coming. I do not expect Clay to make that play - I do not think he is an elite level TE. I think he is good, but Whaley and Rex wanted him and way overpayed to get him. The attempt was adequate, but he is not an elite level pass catcher. My only issue with the play and I agree fully with Magox is the read should of happened faster to get off Zay and to Clay or he had to hold it longer for Zay to clear the Safety and LB on the end line, but Clay on time was an easy TD - unless the call the push off on Clay.

I agree - I have looked at it from about a million angles. I think Zay is his first read - the issue I have and it is small, but there is 1 defender that he should be reading to determine where to go. There is a safety? (the one that ends up hitting Clay) that is the key to this play. If he slides toward Clay - Zay should be the read - if he slides down and out (as he does) then TT must come off Zay and hit Clay nearly immediately . It should of taken a 1/2 second to read during the drop back and then the ball has to come out to Clay. TT holds the ball moves to the left to perhaps open a lane and then finally comes off and picks up Clayto late. At that point Clay is bracketed by defenders. The pass itself was within the realm of making a catch, but the time is where I had an issue. Again overall TT was what we have seen and if the D can play at that level we will be fine.

It is not the pass to me that is the issue and I feel very justified from my earlier posts. The pick is on TT not because of the pass - where he put the pass was not great, but Clay had a shot - it was how late the pass to Clay was. I will repeat and for those that need to watch it there are links in this thread and others. TT gets to the end of his drop and he is looking for Clay. Clay makes a break at the 4 and pulls immediately away from the LB and is open. TT pulls the ball down and drifts one step to the left. Clay is still open and a throw there to the exact same spot he eventually throws it and it would have been a touchdown, but TT drifts one more step to the left and then tries to fit the ball into the only open spot left high and behind the TE at that point. Clay gets a hand on the ball barely - He could of done better and that part is on Clay, but the pass at that point was way to late. That is what I saw live - that is what I saw on replay - now that is confirmed on the All-22. As I have repeatedly stated - it was not where he threw the ball that was the issue - it was when - especially after watching him stare at Clay the entire play - he has his eyes right on the final location from just after the snap - that part is all on TT. As I said - this to me was a standard TT game - he made some nice plays and missed some plays. He made some good throws and some throws that were late. He moved out of the pocket unnecessarily a few times and into more pressure, but also stayed in the pocket. It was a standard game - nothing to complain about and nothing to get excited about. He will play better in a few games this year and will play worse in a few games and will have 7 or so other games in this very vein. There is a ton of argument on both side because we are a passionate fan base and TT is so middle of the road. There are guys that want better and bash TT for things that an Elite QB can do - that TT will never do - and there are people that praise TT for doing things that make him a Top 10 QB like completion percentage and TD/INT ratio and running the ball. Both sides are correct and both sides want to see someone that will help the team win - it is all about perspective and what you are willing to look for. I for one love the argument when both sides bring facts and info and there are many ways for both sides to be correct. I dislike the few extremes on both sides that just fling out crap like it is truth. The nice thing is it seems there a larger number willing to bring their opinions with some facts and we need more of that and less cold hard statements.

Agreed - I think after they review the game hopefully they will find some areas of improvement and they will adjust. I think this game was exactly what we have been seeing from him for 2 years. Some positives and some negatives.

That is fine - just wait and watch it. If he throws it when he hits his drop - he has a chance. TT pulls the ball down takes 2 steps to left and then forces the ball into a back shoulder throw. The pass was not horrible, but the throw needed to come out much sooner. It is not the throw it is the fact that he is late - that is why it is as much on TT as Clay. It is what is is - the Bills won and lead the division.

I will wait and let you rewatch it. The throw was late and behind. Clay could of done more, but TT needs to throw the ball at the end of his drop. The Int is as much on TT as on clay.

Just watching the replay - TT hits his drop and Clay is at the 4 getting ready to make his break. If he throws the ball there - the Jets LB is inside, but tight and that is the window. TT pulls it down and takes 2-3 steps to the left - Clay starts to get open, but by the time he throws it Clay has the LB underneath and is being run into the outside coverage. TT puts the ball in a good place, but the throw was late. You see Clay barely get a hand on the throw. The throw is a part of the issue, but it is about timing more than anything. That throw needs to be made earlier. At the time of the throw - he protected Clay with the back shoulder, but that would of taken an incredible catch. If the ball comes out on time there is a chance, but late throws in the red zone are not good most of the time.

I will wait, but I think that is wrong - I think it was on TT. It was a back shoulder throw, but clay was running a crossing route and that throw turned him around and allowed the DB to drill him. If TT makes the read quicker he has the throw and can put it in front of him and make the easy catch. Because he threw it late - he threw it behind and over the back shoulder of Clay.

The Int was not all on Clay. The pass was late and behind Clay leading to the pick. It was an average game by TT. It certainly was not an "unleashed" performance. It was a good victory, but does not provide a ton of positives - they beat the worst team in the NFL.

Agreed - that is something that must happen.

This is idiotic- there have been Dorsett rumors for weeks - so it is obvious he was not in the Colts plan. The 2 teams just traded guys that were both going to be cut or play back-up roles.

I like it - it kept more people available for game #4 - allowing the starters to essentially sit it out. Without it when you are at 75 - you have basically back-ups in and if someone gets hurt you got guys from the 53 in playing just to fill out the line-up. I would prefer to see them have 2 regular preseason games with a 75 man roster ( starters and bubble guys) and the 2 games with a 75 man roster of bubble guys.

Now I wish this was a poll - finally I see the majority of Bills fans agree on something- I am so proud. Brandon Spikes - bringing Bills fans together - very slowly - lol.

I agree with this, but I think the extremes come from the nature of everyone now - he is .500 as a starter and should be down the middle, but there seems to be a growing group on both sides that push their agenda. The truth as is typical lies in the middle - there are things he can do and things he cannot do as you stated. I think Roman set him up in an offense that played to his strengths in year 1, but when Roman tried to expand him as a QB in year 2 he faltered and Lynn returned to the compressed playbook to get him through and try to win. I get the feeling Dennison is not going to do that because the new staff is not interested in TT as a QB - they want to grow and develop a particular offense and if TT shows he can not do it - they will play Peterman and either way they are drafting a guy next year to develop. There has always been extremes when dealing with the Bills QBs going back to the 60, but the fringe extremes have a way to really voice their thoughts on both sides making those in the middle stay quieter. Give it time he is catching up - by the end of the season maybe he wins - LOL