YattaOkasan

Agreed. Would also add practice as joe Marino has mentioned. Came before the jets game so not much there as he learns playbook, no reps with josh before Vikings game, crazy short blizzard/flu week before browns, short week before lions. Before pats game was his first normal week with the team. I agree his numbers haven’t been where I want them but in context of how much time on task he has had I am still hopeful for growth.

Pulling is currently illegal. I dont know that they are calling it (distinctly remember open field pulling of an Eagles runner that didnt get called), but pulling is not allowed where as the pushing is considered legal.

Is there any data to support that this type of play is less safe. Or is it just anecdotes from a bygone era? If the rule was changed in 2005 I would think we have sufficient data.

As a pass blocker he might be. I think thats a dimension we need from cook that I worry about.

All about what they gave away but good move. Does this mean beane is stock up?

Not saying we should load up on defense. I agree with you we are good there. Will always take a weapon on offense for the right cost. Ultimately I trust Beane so if we sit tight I feel really good with the roster we have.

Those 4 players dont really scare me more than what they had when we played in week 5. We played the 3-2-6 with Siran Neal and were fine with Hardman in for Toney. I think we can still run that defense and have success running 2 man or cover 1 lurk. Beyond that I think with Tre back we can replace Siran with Benford as the 6th DB. I think were too good in nickel and dime and people are gonna really need to be clever to get us out of those personnel packages.

So much stuff. During off-season I was very explicit that we would be much better than what we were ALL season. I fought the position by position comparison of the end of the season while talking season long stats. For this discussion I’ve clearly focused on pass pro after some ambiguity in my first post. I think you’re wrong assigning all the pass pro improvement to Allen. He has helped them but he’s not number 1 in time to release so their ability to be number 1 in pressure rate is a sign of improvement. Morse has not had good health with an elbow injury compared to last year so I don’t understand that argument. And you were pretty neg on Quessenberry this off-season so not sure why you say RT is better if him and brown are interchangeable. you say so many nonsensical things. I’m still laughing at blitz rate being a sign that our pass pro is viewed as weak. I’ve heard your arguments. Data and logic suggests you’re wrong. go bills

lol at STILL calling it cherry picking, i literally did every pass rush metric. How is using ALL the data cherry picking. i have focused entirely on pass pro so not sure what your 2nd and third lines are saying Agree Allen is playing at a different level. So is Tremaine (I know your favorite). For both I think the play of the line in front of them is part of the story. From you I think this is as much of an agreement as I'll get when your priors are not immediately confirmed.

Lol at cherry picking. Would you like me to cherry pick sack % (3rd), hurry % (6th), or hit % (5th)? They are top 10 in ALL metrics, hardly cherry picking. Blitzing: I dont understand your logic here. It seems to be that cause teams think we are not great at pass pro we are getting blitzed more (true on more blitzing), but you dont disagree that the blitzing is NOT leading to pressures (or literally any other stat). So I dont understand your point. If anything it proves my point that were good at pass pro cause even though they are sending extra more often STILL all the pass pro metrics are good. Lastly on this topic, I think teams are blitzing cause they have realized they can't sit back and play coverage. Do you think KC blitzed caused they thought the OL couldnt block? If so then why didnt they do that from the start of the game. Rather, Allen was slicing and dicing them when they played coverage so I think they decided to throw the kitchen sink at him. Agree we have red zone struggles (and would agree if you think its likely cause of poor run blocking). But what does instant pressure mean and how do you track it? You seemingly just made this up. As I said, we are poor in the red zone, but you fail to tie this to pass pro in any meaningful way other than "instant pressure." I get you dont think the pass blocking is great. But to this point you have provided no evidence (other than a subjective grade of one player), while I have refuted all of your challenges to my assertion. Im not saying everything is great with our team, but focus on something that is truly a problem please.

Who's grading? Again pressure stats are saying awful is just not true (still assuming you agree OL is only as strong as weakest link). I am comparing to last years numbers so for the moment my standard is overall play last year. I can pull the individual games from last year from pro football reference in a bit. I agree getting ball out quicker is helping. But lol the pressure rate is half what it was last year. I dont think a change in pocket time from 2.4 to 2.3 would have that much of an affect (some teams with the same pkt time as Bills have double the pressure rate), though there seems to be a correlation between pressure rate and pkt time. Dont have time to throw metrics handy for allen but believes hes about average. Agree pin and pull is running style we need to employ, and the run blocking is not good enough. But for me pass pro >>>> run blocking.

So terrible that we have the lowest pressure rate? OL is consistently something thats described as only as strong as your weakest link. Unless you disagree with that hes been fine. I think your specific concerns for him coming into the season were injuries? I think you have to agree those have not been realized. From my perspective he hasnt been as good in the run game as I would have expected, but I think hes been much better than expected in the pass game.

I thought he was not great at guard last year. Conversely I am very happy with pass pro to this point. Bills have the lowest pressure rate in the NFL (link below). Just awesome. I got grief before the season for saying the OL would be much better. That poster then tried to say that Saffold was at best a wash for Williams. Pretty happy with how that has turned out. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/advanced.htm

I think what some folks are saying is they did move him to play in the slot more already this year. Hes done good and i agree with you wouldnt make him a primary slot or slot only. But Im fine that hes getting more slot run. As for Shakir, I agree with poster up thread that said Shakir for zone and Mck for man.

He had two defensive holding penalties. I also think he had some trouble in coverage. Agree he was fine in the Steelers game which may have given them confidence to run this defense, but I think Benford is a better coverage player (and overall defender) so is better for this defense. Agree DaQuan is just awesome this year and he is critical. I think it puts a lot of stress on DL to get pressure (otherwise coverage will breakdown eventually). Thats probably why we havent seen it in past years.

Love the 3-2-6. It’ll be weapon in obvious passing downs with mobileQBs. My only concern is Neal as the 6th DB. I think this role goes to Benford when Tre works back in. Dane will be back up to Elam and White on the outside as Benford offers a bit more physicality from the slot area.

Agree. Was trying to figure out from where. I think from Miami. Gave us a lot of flack for saying the heat is advantage, but Minnesota won. I assume hes frustrated they have lost 3 in a row and came on here to troll.

Agree that’s a team stat also agree with thoughts upthread that there are some things each does a little better than the other. One that’s not mentioned for Josh is that he’s a better deep ball thrower. The improvement in that part of his game has been so important. Mahomes missed throws yesterday going over the defenses head. Hard to picture josh doing that this year.

Diggs is getting those free releases in the slot this year and unshockingly hes getting more production. That he has produced so much while being almost exclusively on the outside the past two years is amazing.

Whos gonna meet Poyer when he drives in today? That dude is awesome.

What? Who did we pay? Saffold? Dawkins and Brown and Bates are all in house peeps on reasonable or rookie deals. Quessenberry got not much. Morse predates Ford. Are we still in that set back period? I think OL has been good to great in pass pro.

I think the laser light show suffered from teams going 2 high against us. Early on in 2020 peeps were still playing man.

Agree on Dorsey. Feel as if he has schemed to neutralize the likes of Donald, Simmons, and Heyward. All three of them are forces up the middle getting after the QB. Quick game is the perfect scheme to neutralize those type of players.

Is there a problem with Pass Pro? I think its been good to great. Light years ahead of where it was last year at this time. Could things be a bit better? Yes. Should we make a high investment? Yes. But I feel better that Josh is not just running for his life like he did in the early part of last year.

Twice is the limit I believe (unless changed from last year)