YattaOkasan

There are plenty of reasons why shakir doesn’t get snaps. He has gotten blown up on many run or screen plays that resulted in a TFL. McKenzie despite being small is at least able to get in the way as a blocker. I would also say McDermott trust McKenzie more and youre confusing that with “earned it”

Sorry what about our cover 2 shell doesnt work? we held them to 171 and 217 yards in the two games so far. Thats 2 of their 5 lowest outputs for the season. Including only Tua starts thats 2 of his 3 lowest outputs. I think youre referencing what the Chargers did to Tua, which at 127 was obviously great, but everyone else that has tried to replicate that has not been as good as we have done. If we dont disguise cover 2 or mix up coverages some then yeah i worry we would get carved up. But frazier has shown he can contain tua. 188 rushing yards (most of the year) scares me and run fits from cover 2 are harder, but you seemed to imply that cover 2 couldnt stop their pasisng attack.

Yes but last two years Mahomes has thrown 13 and 12 INT. That bumps Int rate up to about 1.9. Josh is at 2.3% for career and 2.4% for the past two years. Mahomes recently has been more susceptible. I dont really disagree about elite QBs seem to do better against us (I think thats what youre saying). But i take exception to the idea that 214 pass yards per game is bad. Were 8th in Pass yards allowed with more attempts than any of the teams below us. Also 178 is a crazy number. Are you saying our pass d isnt crazy efficient this year (true) or that our passing defense isnt efficient enough (not true)?

So it was a conditional 7th from what I have read. when all the dust settles yeah it may not be for anything. It happens. Andre smith a few years ago was similar. Andre came from Carolina for a conditional late pick. Andres condition was make the team. Bills cut him and then signed him an hour later when they moved someone to IR. Cost nothing to get Andre from Carolina. for Marlowe the only condition for a pick at the deadline that I could think is playing time. He’s been inactive since we got him despite cam Lewis and Jaquan Johnson not playing well. As soon as Marlowe is active he’s in over both those guys. I think they kept him inactive to not tigger the condition on the pick and still as insurance against further safety injury. I think we see him going forward and I’m hoping beane did it for free. He is a wizard.

I think pulling Marlowe out of a hat is as good as we could expect. Got a suspicion he might not have met the terms of the conditional 7th round. If so then getting Marlowe for nothing is a coup.

I agree josh is amazing at pocket presence and it’s not talked about enough. So I think you convinced me the stats are overstating the OL play. I would mention though that josh has shown the pocket presence from 2020 so the year over year stats can be used for comparison rather than league wide like I was doing with season ranks. Josh definitely is choosing to leave clean pockets though making his own angles tough (he so good at tough throws though). I think a thread on OL might be needed as there’s a lot to talk about it feels. Thanks for the discussion

I put Miami on several misses from skill players. Dirting a throw to McK that gives us the lead. Even the strip sack was singeltary not being able to lock holland. jets was clearly interceptions. Yes josh got out of the pocket for one of them but it was clearly on him at that point. The second was from a clean pocket. Also tackling. Nah. I don’t pin those losses on the OL I see thanks. just check the stats on awful OL. I think it’s a similar “criticism”. Carried over from years past. Pressure rate is down a third this year. We were good at sack last year but bad at hurried pressure and hits. We’re now middle of the pack for all of them. I think he’s getting a cleaner pocket. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/advanced.htm check the pressure tab

Agree. Point might be that with back surgery he didn’t get the chance to correct them

Don’t disagree the WR aren’t holding their end of the bargain. I had them as 5-10 in the league before the year. Now I think they are 10-14. Crazy cause I still consider diggs top 5. An average WR2 would probably get them back to 5-10

I guess. Trying to dissect this a bit is hard. First thing in my mind is his time to throw has stayed high. I think we also still run a ton of option routes which are not anticipation throws. I actually don’t consider a criticism. Having the ability to wait until peeps have separation shows the ability to have great arm strength. Allows adjustment to post snap coverage changes. Lastly I think it’s how he can convert 3rd and Josh Allen’s. Hard to anticipate 3rd and long plays versus short plays

Yeah that’s the challenge is pff is the only source really. I think more OL focused peeps have some better ones though. But PFF also has morse at 51. I don’t think that checks out

Back to the OP. I think it’s how Josh plays. He throws when he sees separation as the ball travels that separation decreases and the YAC is diminished. In other offenses that are based on timing the ball is thrown before separation. When the ball gets there the separation is maximized and thus more YAC. I don’t know that Josh will ever be a high end YAC guy. I hope for average.

Lol well have to disagree on this point. I think he’s average to just below. Need to find a good set of stats to reference. But not in NFL is comical. You clearly don’t watch other teams enough let alone what backups look like.

You mean his weakness is speed rush? Yes I find that strange too. But bills have a type on OL. Joe Marino said their average RAS is 9.3! probably shave some off aged vet Saffold but he was athletic when he came out.

Those are the weak points of our OL but I think you are making them out to be worse than they are. Though ive come around to Saffold is being overpaid so would be happy to get some young blood there. Lastly how do you see them as the reason for us losing? Our run game is humming and our TOs are coming from a clean pocket more often than not. How will they cause harm? Penalties is the only stat I havent looked up. Everything else isn’t a liability.

I agree. Pff grading is garbage so not using that. Kromer has got the run game humming now. Took some different approaches to get there (tackle pulls) but our RB are really producing since the bye. Also the OL is not really a problem in the pass game (bottom half in sacks, hurries, hits, pressures though a lot of that is Josh). Problem in the pass game is drops (obviously not OL) and INT. A very high number of Josh’s INT come from a clean pocket so hard to blame them. I think the OL is rounding out very nicely.

Yeah sorta wanted Bal to win so it want hat and t shirt. But cinci doesn’t seem to care. They seem to keep talking about the 1 seed and being the top dog. I get it I guess but I would be laser focused on the division as that’s a must have. The 1 seed is much more a nice to have. If cinci doesn’t win tonight then next week is against Bal is for the division. Hope the focus on the 1 seed bites Cinci and they lose the division.

We play zone so it depends on where he lines up. I don’t expect anyone to follow chase.

That TB game was crazy too. Can’t believe they are getting so much credit for what was a TB implosion

The talk of 1 seed for Cinci still feels off to me. Maybe McD has gotten to me but take care of your division first. I hear bengals talking about the 1 seed and it sorta gets me excited. Missing the 1 seed is not the end of the world but losing the division would be. I find it interesting that they are more focused on the shiny 1 seed then the more critical division.

Go watch the first half of the TB game by the bengals. Cinci didn’t get to TB territory until the 2 minute drill. It wasn’t anything too flukey like in the NE game. Disguise coverage and drop non coverage players. Also burrow has had a bit of trouble with 8 man coverage. Few ways to stop them. These are all things we have done before with Frazier. I agree it won’t be easy but it’s doable.

It is their weakness but they have a very good DVOA against #1 receivers (bills are bad against number #1s but throttle all others). I think Davis will really need to get going on the boundary.

Everyone does. But do it like diggs and roast them on the field. You can even let them know after. No need to try to hurt a player. That stuff can escalate and I don’t want another injury on our side. Honestly I am hoping apple talks smack to diggs. On the 3 man rush and pressure, I think (and others have said) this is a game where coverage sets up pass rush. They don’t want to run and burrow gets the ball out quicker than anyone than Brady. With their line being a bit banged up you need to get burrow off his first read to allow the rush to get home. Check out some of Anthony Prohaskas from cover 1 film review from Wednesday. He shows how TB did great in the first half to get Burrow to have to process the coverage which let the rush get home.

This. Bengals are still playing for division. I don’t understand why everyone keeps talking about their outside shot for the 1 seed. If I’m them I’m focused on winning division. Maybe the 1 seed enters my mind if Denver pulls off the upset. Coming up short on the 1 seed isn’t the end of the world. Coming up short on the division would be a disaster for them.

Agree it’s a good win. But it’s also a strange one. More yards than we had but also more turnovers. I think both teams went into Foxboro and took care of business and both are great wins. I’ll give us the slight nod on game script. We were a bit slow out the gate but did very well in the second half with a huge drive that ate over half a quarter. That took everything out of the game and if we have that type of drive Monday we will win. Oddly bengals had that weird hold on for dear life game with the pick six and chase fumble after a near perfect first half. Burrow is usually great in the 4th quarter so it was a bit weird to see them struggle.