TheBrownBear

Oh yes, those poor "objective" fans are just the victims of the majority of the rest of us fans who are Kool-Aid drinkers. How is this for objectivity? - 2 straight division crowns - 3 epic beatdowns in last 4 games against the GOAT NFL coach - 25 year old QB who is emerging as a top-5 player in the entire league - Coach/GM combo who is 4/5 in making the playoffs after 17 years of hopeless futility - Season ending road playoff losses to probably the best team in at least the past decade, with a HOF coach, otherworldly skill players (Kelce/Hill), and maybe the future GOAT at QB. And we were 13 seconds or a 50/50 coin flip away from taking them down this time. - About to build a stadium that will guarantee the Bills stay in town for at least the next 20 years, when only 8-9 years ago we seemed almost certain to lose them to Toronto. Yes - The loss was horribly painful. Yes - Mistakes were made in the final sequences that cost us a win and a SB opportunity. Yes - we need to get better in certain positions and yes the coaching staff needs to reflect and learn from this to avoid similar mistakes in the future. But we've all vented and commiserated over it for 6 days now. I'm personally tiring of the handwringing at this point, and I think a lot of the "Kool-Aid Drinkers" are probably feeling the same, which is why you're starting to see the blowback against these despondency threads. But, at the same time, this board exists for all Bills fans. We are all wired differently. And for some, they aren't ready to disconnect from the pain of last weekend and accept the objective reality that we have a very successful foundation in place at QB, GM and coach. I get it. I'm tiring of it, but I get it. And who am I (or any other Kool-Aid drinker) to tell other fans how to think, feel or grieve this loss.

Yeah, let's trade Josh. Free up space for some good linebackers and a great running back and we can go 7-9 for 17 years. JK. People like to point to Russell Wilson's struggles over the last 1.5 seasons or whatever, but the truth is a truly elite HOF QB gives you the best chance of making the playoffs and winning SBs, year over year. The really great ones (Brady, Rodgers, Manning, etc.) are in the picture pretty much every year, regardless of who they had around them. The elite QB contract makes it tougher to build a dominant team from top to bottom, but at least you've already got the most important piece in place. Then whatever resources you have left should be devoted to your defense and protecting your prized asset. You're essentially paying your stud QB to elevate the average (or rookie contract) skill position players around him (See Dawson Knox and Gabe Davis).

Why the hate for Shurmur? He's a bad HC, but he's been a good OC outside of his little stint in Denver where they didn't have a decent QB.

His last three NFL OC gigs were honestly fairly putrid situations. He's done an amazing job with Josh and this offense. But I agree that the QB basically makes or breaks you as an OC. I think Jones is good enough to make it work assuming he's paired with a competent coaching staff, which he didn't have under Joe Judge. We will see, I guess.

I heard we'll also be signing Shaq Lawson. Jones will turn out better than Hurts or Heineke if Daboll goes there. He's got all the tools, but he was handcuffed by his coaching staff and skill position players who could never stay healthy.

Nothing is a given. Those 13 seconds should have taught us that, if nothing else. Time to turn the page, retool and look forward to next year.

Speaking of receivers I covet, how the hell did A.J. Brown slide to the bottom of the 2nd round? I'd give anything for that guy to be a Bill.

Does this really require another separate thread? Yes, we are all still really disappointed.

They all look amazing! They all appear to have +++ intangibles. They will all be top-3 to top-8 QBs for the next 10 years (barring injury). And you can clearly win at the highest level with any of the three. I think who you choose really comes down to what type of "style" you prioritize. Josh gets knocked because the one trait that currently elevates him over Burrow and Herbert, his punishing running ability, is the trait most likely to decline with age and wear and tear, so I get why some prefer the other two guys. Josh has grown into an elite passer, but he's still probably just the thinnest hair behind the other two as a passer (accuracy and touch).

As asinine as these analysts seem from our perspective, as fans who have gotten to watch Josh's growth week in and week out over four seasons, I can still sort of understand why it's so hard for some of them to accept that Josh actually is the stud that they witnessed the past two weeks. These days most great young quarterbacks come in as highly polished prospects who are essentially "plug and play" from day one. Think about all of the guys who just hit the ground running over the past decade (Luck, Newton, Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, Dak, Murray, Goff and rookie Lamar to a lesser extent) and were either great from the get go or at least top-10 types by their second season. The highly touted that didn't "wow" by the end of their second season were quickly relegated to the trash heap of history (Mitch, Drew Lock, Paxton Lynch, EJ Manuel, Manziel, Gabbert, Ponder, Locker, etc.). Josh came in with a ton of doubters and then proceeded to have a statistically terrible rookie season in 2018. These analysts might have seen a couple of his splash plays in highlights (Barr leap, Foster bomb), but they'd refer to the box scores and if they happened to tune in to one of his games against New England or whomever, they'd see him throwing scattershot and it would reinforce their opinions that he didn't have what it took to succeed. Second year his completion % numbers creep up a bit, INTs go down, does enough to get team to playoffs, but his numbers still place him in the bottom 5 of the league and if you tuned into the Texans game you'd think "Christ, this guy is tough, athletic, fun to watch, but his football IQ is dumb as a rock and he's still inaccurate as heck". Going into year 3, a majority of the NFL media and probably most of the evaluator/scout/GM types had completely written Josh off as a "bust." So, heading into September 2020, you have a guy who most people think is essentially the second coming of Jake Locker or maybe a Trubisky type. Good enough to ride a great defense to the playoffs, but a guy who will probably be out of the league within 5-6 years. Then last season kicks off and he seemingly transforms overnight into a mix of Patrick Mahomes and MVP-level Cam Newton. That just isn't supposed to happen. It's like if EJ Manuel had morphed into a superstar overnight in his third year. You'd think - "Wow. This dude is playing out of his mind, but he will come back down to Earth soon. He's EJ Manuel after all." But he continued to stack one great game after another and by the end of the season, he'd probably won over about half of his doubters. 2021 and especially the past two games probably flipped about 90% of his remaining haters (I see you Nick Wright and PFF). As of today, there's probably only a handful of doubters left out there - jealous fans (or coaches) or analytics based evaluators that can't accept that Josh broke their "system". I believe all of these types of articles will make their way to Josh and he will come back even more motivated and completely torch the NFL next year. Then any doubter that remains will appear like a blind raving lunatic in some post-apocalyptic story.

LOL. Who in their right mind would hire a 62 year old, failed head coach retread like Frazier, especially after what we witnessed on Sunday? It ain't happening. Would be a worse hire than Jauron was for the Bills. This is David Culley territory.

The best thing is that we don't have one of these studs in our division. Maybe Wilson turns into one, but the longer that Tua and Mac Jones remain starters, the better that is for the Bills. We are basically guaranteed 4-to-6 wins (probably more like 5/6 wins) every single season for the foreseeable future.

Yeah, I guess he could have said "booboos hurt", but he sounds more polished this way.

Like Tua, Mac Jones and Matt Ryan?

That's a tough road slate, but I actually prefer facing these big baddies on the road. And I'll definitely be at that Rams game!

Congrats to Nate. I know we loved to sh*t on him here when he was our OC, but we didn't really have a great amount of talent on those offenses, he was really green, and we were in QB hell. I'm sure he's grown as a coach over the years, and by all accounts, he's a really likeable guy. Good luck to him.

I honestly believe we would have killed the Bengals. Their defense would have been completely defenseless against our offensive weapons. Burrow would need to play a perfect game and I don't see that happening yet on that stage in our stadium. Super Bowl vs. the Rams is probably a toss-up. I'd almost think we'd be a slight dog in that game since I like the Rams d-line against our o-line. But we would definitely have a legit shot to walk away with the Lombardi. This isn't the '17 or '19 Bills who really didn't have a shot to win big.

FIRE MCDERMOTT AND FRAZIER = Yes, probably overreaction. JFC, HOW DID THAT ACTUALLY HAPPEN? HOW ARE WE NOT HOSTING A HOME AFCCG? HOW DID KELCE GET SO OPEN? WHY DOES GOD HATE US AND WANT US TO BE MISERABLE FOR A MINIMUM OF THE NEXT 2-3 WEEKS? = probably just about the perfect reaction Wow. Great game! Bummer we lost, but, man, how great is Josh Allen and how lucky are we to have him? We've got a 10 year window of SB runs ahead of us. And, by the way, aren't those Chiefs fans great with their cheeky $13 donations? = Underreaction

The only way you're beating the Chiefs is with Cover 2 and a front four of elite pass rushers that can get after Mahomes and actually bring him down. I think we actually did a halfway decent job of pressuring him in the first couple of quarters, but just didn't have the type of playmaker that could close the deal and take him to the turf. That's why I still believe we need to devote most of our resources in the offseason to finding those d-line pieces. Hopefully, Epenesa, Rousseau and Basham can take the next step in 2022.

Same here. 20-30 seconds left and that's a mistake, but there's only 13 seconds to move 40 yards, that's the play. I'm sure the staff realizes this now and we won't see the same mistake in the future, but it was a tough way to learn that lesson.

Depressing to watch for sure. In hindsight we should have rushed 2 at most and used the extra coverage to bump and blanket Kelce and Hill the first 5-10 yards downfield. The fact that he was given a free release and then that we never got a guy within 5 yards of him is inexcusable. That's almost enough right there to warrant firing Frazier. The guy has been in the league forever, and that's what he comes up with when you absolutely need to be at your best for just 13 seconds? Oh vey!

I dunno. Is he done taking care of his mentals?

I said he was a future hall of famer 2 years ago. You could see it pretty clearly then if you knew what to look for.

Good stuff.

I like Beas as a player, but yeah, the comparison is laughable. Kupp is an absolute stud. He also has Beasley by like 6 inches. They are in no way, shape or form comparable players.