BADOLBILZ

This part is false.

And at no point did I suggest you said the highlighted. I didn't need to. Your exaggeration spoke volumes. Because there is nothing to suggest an "All Pro" season wouldn't sway opinion of Gabe...................and literally nobody has said Davis has "zero redeeming qualities". Just fabricated hyperbole from you. The exaggeration with some of you is off the charts here..........like @eball saying that people claim the Bills offense is in a "downward spiral" because it's simply being pointed out that the passing game specifically has declined considerably since 2020. There is a significant difference between those two descriptions........and as in your case, it was an exaggeration fabricated to shout down undeniable statistical fact. You have to exaggerate against those facts because you can't accept the reality or maybe because you just don't know what you are talking about. Those takes are reminiscent of when the media asked McDermott about being the worst scoring offense in the NFL since the merger halfway thru 2018 and his answer was "Would we like to score 50 points per game? Sure." As if anyone suggested that 50 ppg was the difference between worst-ever-thru-8-games and acceptable. The difference is that McDermott has to answer those questions. You guys volunteer these takes. Now as for the rest of your takes on Gabe...........his bulk stats were disappointing as well considering his opportunity/QB........but they are WR2 type.........the problem is that you can't isolate them from the incredible inefficiency per target in his game. The other players in that bulk WR2 category aren't barely catching 50% of their targets, outright dropping 10% of them and producing a woeful 80 passer rating when thrown to. Those numbers aren't excusable by having a bad foot for the 3rd straight season. That wasn't an outlier for him. But I am glad you think that there is *some* merit to those among-very-worst numbers. And wrt Beane.........I don't know what he is thinking. Last year at this time people with your slant were still thinking Edmunds was going to get re-signed. If the organization is certain about a player these things get done in the offseason after year 3 when they become extension eligible. Presuming that Beane has made up his mind about the lengths he will go to re-sign Davis would be a mistake. A great start might elevate the urgency and raise his value. A poor start might cause them to back off. I would guess that they have a number in mind now that they would sign him for immediately but we don't even know THAT for certain.

Again........you have created a bullish!t straw man argument simply because you don't like that the discussion was specifically about the passing offense. Who said the Bills 2022 offense wasn't better than the 2021 version? But fwiw.........you are even wrong about that. They averaged 28.4 points in both 2021 and 2022. More consistent from game to game in the regular season, IMO.........but clearly not better. You saw that team in the second half of the season and playoffs and thought that was BETTER? Fans were pretty disappointed with the chaotic offense from November on......which ultimately went down with a whimper against Cinci so I don't think you will get much agreement there. As is often the case, your arguments conflate two things that don't actually fit together.........like assuming that Allen's improvement in *some* passing stats from 2021 to 2022 meant that the offense as a whole was better.......when it was not. And you hyperbolized that the Bills offense was in a "downward spiral".......nobody said that either.......but the passing game has undeniably declined notably since 2020 and it wasn't all better in 2022 than in 2021........especially in the red zone and wrt turnovers. There isn't any passing game statistic where they have been as good or better than 2020. Allen is having to run more, getting hit more, completing a significantly lower % of passes for less yards and TD's per attempt and throwing more interceptions and fumbling a lot more.

Yeah because it's the fans fault that he dropped the second most passes in the league, had the lowest catch rate of any highly target player in the NFL, an abysmal 80 passer rating when thrown to and has had recurring foot problems for all 3 years of his career. The reasons why he is polarizing are entirely justified by what's taken place on the field. Pretending like it's an exaggeration to say he's been inconsistent/disappointing and that it wouldn't even matter if he played at an All-Pro level because fans are just picking on him is idiotic.

Sure, but the argument you initiated was different from the one actually under discussion. Which is what the old folks used to call a "straw man fallacy". Nobody was saying that the OL has been good. Yes there are some who think, in retrospect, that the 2020 OL was good........and that was the good ol' days of Bills OL play. But as I pointed out.........that was not actually the case. The 2020 OL allowed a ton of pressure but the WR corps was top 3 that year and they had a dynamic quick passing game balanced with deep threats and even some YAC talent to cover for suspect starters like Brian Winters/Jon Feliciano/Ike Boettger on the OL. When injuries took their toll on the WR corps in the playoffs..........the OL showed what they were made of. Not much good. Like the OL we've seen since the WR corps has gradually eroded. IMO the OL has never been good since Josh Allen has been a Bill. But when they had a top 3 receiving group it didn't matter nearly as much. It's hard for some to accept the idea that a few WR can make an OL look better than it is.........but the Bengals reached a SB with a terrible OL..........primarily because they had 2 WR1 type receivers. Which is basically the common denominator between the last 10 teams that have played in the SB. I think the stats that I've used to illustrate my point are pretty convincing.......moreso than a random example like "TD %". There are more things WORSE about the Bills passing game since 2020 than there are those that are as good or better. A lot of them, actually. Do you deny that despite what the numbers(and the eyeball test) strongly/broadly indicate? If not.......then I don't know what the point of your arguing about it is.

WRT the passing game..........the point is that the eye test shows that he's a better passer now, IMO, and the numbers should reflect that.........but do not. Some want to say it's just OL play but he was pressured 65 times in 2020 and "only" 41 in 2022. The quality of the 2020 OL is a misty water-colored memory of fans. The lasting impression should be what happened in the AFCCG. Allen was pressured hard. The fastball of the offense was the WR corps.........when that fell apart due to injury the OL got exposed. As the Bills quick passing game options declined in 2021 and further declined in 2022 we saw Allen take more hits.

It is being said in Miami. It's not a secret that those guys have had disappointing camps. MLJ isn't an analyst he is an aspiring "insider" aka agent ball-washer who may just have to settle for a recurring role on ESPN afternoon round table shows.

Having the ball-droppinest group of receivers is a major problem. But the receiving corps struggles were more than that. The staggering 40 point drop in QB rating when throwing from most targeted (Diggs 120.3) to second most targeted (Davis a woeful 80.8) is just untenable if you want to reach a SB. Nobody is saying the OL wasn't also mishandled. Cutting Daryl Williams to give all of that savings to Rodger Saffold........then watching him be maybe the worst starting guard in football.......was a big issue. And QBR is a fine stat but that formula of passing + rushing greatly reflects Allen putting himself in harms way on the ground to gain a lot of needed extra yards the past 2 seasons. And the conversation you jumped into is just talking about the passing game in isolation. No doubt Allen has really been pushing the envelope on the ground the past two years trying to do work they were doing in the passing game in 2020. Allen has been trending toward rushing MORE and farther as the talent around him has declined. You can dismiss it as once more per game........but that's over 20% more. 7 more sacks in 1 less game played between 2021-2022 was also concerning. Josh Allen rush attempts per game: 2020 6.4 2021 7.2 2022 7.8

Is "Isn't exactly falling off a cliff" another version of Promo's "at least we're not the Lions" rationale from the drought? The Bills receivers literally had the most dropped passes in the NFL last season. Allen saw his passer rating drop 15 points from 2020 to 2021.........he was on a different plane as a passer that year and so was the entire offense. Instead Allen has seen his completion % drop from 4th in the NFL to 24th and 22nd the past two seasons. Don't you think he's a better QB now than he was then? The talent level around him has caused a tangible decline in his per snap productivity as a passer...........and subsequently he's had to take it upon himself to make up for lost production on the ground. It's also adding up to extra hits/mileage. That's not falling off a cliff but it's a decline that shouldn't have been allowed to happen for lack of attention to the offense in recent offseasons.

I think(hope) the defense is going to be more about making impact plays against the offense this year as opposed to just trying to prevent them from happening to them. That's how they got here and considering that the previous iterations of the defense couldn't even slow down the Chiefs or Bengals in the playoffs it was definitely time for a change. In fact, it should have been changed after it failed in 2020. It was just too comfortable building around Tremaine and keeping Frazier in place.

They may be hoping to trade Settle to a team in need late in TC and want it out there that he's looking good and maybe even ahead of a proven vet like Ford?

It wasn't as good without you. @teef clearly wants to be your Virgil. You two can be TMT of TBD.

You are aware that he's under contract in another league and can't be poached in-season, right?

They have reached the proverbial "need to hit someone else" portion of camp.

You aren't owning the take you are playing the "I was mis-quoted" card because you know what you said made no sense. Again, this is stuff that's been getting reported for decades. If it's too intense for you then don't follow it. That's a you decision.

It wasn't my first time seeing somebody like you use a totally idiotic/false premise as an excuse to complain about something the media has been regularly reporting for decades at practices.

Yeah he's definitely not a lock but there isn't a lot of competition. Hurts him that they don't have a Mitch Trubisky type to throw to him in preseason games. Kyle Allen has been far worse than expected, it seems.

Might be a couple guys who have reached the point in their careers where they need to prepare differently in the offseason and put in a little more work on maintenance/self-preservation in season to feel good and recover better. The "you can't tear fat" philosophy that Josh talked about on Bussin' is a little too open ended, IMO. Less golf, more stretching perhaps. And Dion........I mean.......if he were to have gotten himself into fighting shape the past two offseasons he might have played better and gotten his deal extended. Too good of an athlete to have let himself decline like he did last season. Now AJ Epenesa is throwing him around in practice.

Actually I got Duke Williams flashbacks when I watched him in person Friday. He's a tank with massive arms pumping and high effort.......but he's not quick or fast and can't separate in tight coverage so he will not be difficult at all to cover. He would need to be DeAndre Hopkins-esque at the catch point to be really good, I'd think. Duke Williams update......he had a rough game this week for Hamilton. Zero catches in yet another loss.

General Sorniss(Ed Oliver) would be a lot better Star Wars name than a lot of them they have.

Well you were literally comparing Davis and Diggs by saying Diggs "drops his share" too.........which clearly implies that he drops about the same % of passes. Which is FALSE. Since "rare" is much different "often".......yes that is a much more apt description. You just wanted to shout down the discussion of drops. Get used to the media talking about dropped passes, blown coverages, missed blocks etc.. because they've been reporting this stuff every day in camp for decades now. If there seems to be greater attention brought to.......which is not necessarily the case........it could be that that's because Davis had a truly awful season catching the football last season and people want to know if that sh!t is going to continue.

Shakur is Tupac. Shakir is 2Drop.

It's good that you don't want to be the guy that's WRONG. But you are. We look past Diggs drops because he typically drops about half as many per target as the very drop-prone Davis. Since they both arrived in Buffalo it's about 4% for Diggs and 8% for Davis. Those are very tangible differences in the NFL. For reference, Gabriel Davis had the second most drops of any WR in the entire NFL last season(9 drops....second to Zay "Drop Zone" Jones). And it's not just the score-able drops with Davis.......his catch % was 186th........that's THE LOWEST of any player who caught passes in the NFL with 65 or more targets(the Bills had 4 such players). Davis drops way more passes than is acceptable but he also doesn't catch contested passes that a lot of receivers do.

Buscaglia in The Athletic said that Rousseau had a dominant practice.......with sacks against both Dawkins and Brown. Also said that O'Cyrus Torrence has been getting beaten on the regular in camp and that Ryan Bates performance is far ahead of him..........which isn't the narrative that I've seen in general.

Yeah all I can figure is that they didn't want the starters out there much against the D with the energy of 30,000 people in the crowd. They pushed the offense around good. Epenesa flung Dion Dawkins to the turf on one play and Dion looked like an old man getting helped up. He needs to get into form but I hope the D carries this play into the season. Quite a different situation than the open practice that we attended in 2021. This was like a full-on kid's day preseason game and they sold a ton of food.