Alphadawg7

This is where I have been at too. I think we can all (even the most optimistic on Zay) agree he is never likely going to be used as WR1 outside threat. However, he also hasn't yet shown he can be a very good WR2 yet, especially with how poorly he handles press coverage, so the default has been "he's better for the slot", and I too have said that. But, what you just said is a big part of why I think he could be in jeopardy, is that his skill set really isn't special for a slot WR. He lacks the twitch explosiveness and great route running that can really make a slot WR dangerous.

Yeah I certainly agree with your assessment. Metcalf is just such a different breed though that it will be tough for the Jags to pass on him IMO. But you are right, OL certainly is the other most likely pick. Its going to come down to do they want to give Foles a potential major weapon or buy him more time. Personally, I think it could go either way as both WR and OL are deep this year and they will have a good one at either position likely on the board still in the 2nd. But that WR group is in shambles, and they are about to get thinner with Moncrief about to leave as a FA. But yeah, based on Coughlin and Marrone, OL does seem more their speed.

Not hate, its fair to look at the roster and see places we can and will improve. And taking an honest look at him, several us don't see any part of his game that he does well...at least not yet. Doesn't mean he cant improve more, but right now, he has yet to establish any single part of being a WR as something he excels at. So not about hating him, I know I would love for him to succeed and will root for him to do so. I don't care if my "gut feeling" is correct of wrong, I just want a much stronger WR room for Allen to work with. Your comment is one that has been said here many times now. Production is being over exaggerated, this is why looking at stat totals is so misleading. Those numbers are pretty bad for a 16 game starter in his 2nd year on a team that desperately needed more help from its WR's. 22 games out of 30 with less than 40 yards, including 10 of his 16 this year, is not a good season. Having a couple good games against a woeful Mia team doesnt make a career either. So don't confuse fair criticism or speculative doubt as "hate", its not personal at all. I and some others are just skeptical he can beat out better competition to play WR1, WR2 or the main slot WR. Hey if he wins the job against better competition this year, thats great for all of us as that means he took a step forward and earned the spot.

Not sure what this means, but I would love to see this happen. Ideally, if we can emerge from FA with the following: 1 Edge - As this article alluded to doing 1 TE - Jesse James seems to be the hot target right now, but Harris from KC would be intriguing too or Brate if TB makes him officially available. 2 OL - We added one solid versatile guy so far, but would like to get two more key starters in FA. 1 WR - One WR that can compete for the slot or to start...Humphries is a guy I really like, but talk out of TB is that Arians really wants to try and keep him. Although he probably leaves given the crowded WR room in TB, and Bills could be a good spot for him with a wide open WR room right now and an ascending QB. At WR, another guy I like is Geronimo Allison who is only 25 still, but a RFA. Not sure if the Packers tagged him at all, but if not thats a guy I would look at too. Additioanlly, they could also trade for Ross if we can send like a late pick for him. I personally would see if they would do a Zay for Ross swap straight up. Both seem to be better fits for the other team. If we can do that...then we have so much flexibility at 9 and guys like Oliver, Metcalf, etc are easy to take there. I have a feeling that if Oliver makes it to 9 he will be our pick.

He is easily an option for us at 9 and has been IMO. There are several guys who could or should be there at 9 I would love taking, so pretty sure I will be thrilled with our pick there no matter what. I trust Beane not to do a "Whitner" or Oakland Raider type blunder, so its going to be someone like Burns, Oliver, Gary, Metcalf, Allen, Sweat, etc. Hard to predict who falls to us, but pretty sure we are going to get one helluva prospect at #9.

totally agree with you on this

Did just as a courtesy given the thread is now 10 pages as most people wont go through a whole thread and will instead jump in where its currently at when its that long. Hence why I said "in case you didn't". PS: I think we are going to beef up the OL in FA, its deeper than the other positions of need. And we don't have to take a WR in round 1 for it to be a threat to Zay. Butler or Campbell in the 2nd would be too...not to mention someone like Isabella in the 3rd would be too. This is a deep WR group, talent can be had in first 3 rounds.

With all the talk of how our first 2 picks will go, wondering who everyone is drooling to grab in rounds 3 and 4 where we have currently 3 picks? Below are a few of the ones I would love to grab with these picks if they are there. #74 (round 3): Andy Isabella - WR - This kid could be our Kupp/Edelman type player out of the slot but way faster. His combine was pretty darn good, so he may sneak into the 2nd round. But with how the deep this draft is at several positions, especially WR, its still quite possible we can get him in the 3rd. #105 (round 4): Bryce Love - RB - I think someone is going to get a steal here with him in 4th round. Sounds like he will be ready to play sometime this year (even likely by camp), and he idolizes Shady, so ideal guy to learn behind. He is a guy that could go 3rd round too, but he seems to be seen as more of a 4th round guy right now given injury and the fall off from his previous year too. Use him sparingly early in the season and let him ease back into it to groom him for more touches later in the year and to potentially start in his 2nd season. #124 (round 4): Josh Oliver - TE - This kid to me reminds me of young Jimmy Graham. Not sure how much you guys all got to see of him being at smaller school here in CA, but this kid looks like a real gem to grab. Hoping we could nab him in the 4th, but he impressed at combine, so his stock may have risen and may go higher.

Agreed, he really shouldn't keep talking in the midst of the trade before its happened. It certainly can turn some people off, I mean Giants are rumored to be ready to trade OBJ because they are tired of his public stuff. Personally, I really do not think that AB will be a locker room issue. He strikes me as someone who is sensitive and isn't liking some of the narrative around himself right now but also isn't very eloquent in how he shares his feelings. So he keeps talking because he wants to defend himself, but because he isn't good at it he is making it seem worse at times. I will add though, he has said some good stuff too and I thought he was pretty good on this weeks The Shop on HBO for the most part.

If we only add 1 more significant WR, sure I see that as a possibility. Just feel they will add at least 2 though, and thats where I struggle seeing Zay beating out Foster, Duke, McKenzie and 2 other WR's who were either signed or drafted to compete to start. In case you didnt read any of my other replies, my main point on why I think Zay will get traded during camp is because I have a feeling he wont beat out the guys ahead of him (the 3 we have now plus 2 more expected adds between now and draft) and will fall to 4th on depth chart. At that point, I feel like Beane will look to get value for him before his value falls further if he isnt seeing significant playing time over the course of the season. For example...lets say we sign Humphries in FA. Then draft Metcalf at 9 or wait til the second and draft someone like Butler. Can you really see Zay beating out Foster (who has already passed up Zay), Duke (who is talented enough to compete to start or play significant minutes), McKenzie (who could challenge for a slot role) and then both Humphries (easy starter at Slot) and our high draft rookie (Metcalf/Butler/Other will likely be a WR1 or WR2 week 1)? Thats why I think he falls...BUT, of course if we only say draft one rookie and then just maybe add another role player or late round pick to the WR room, sure, Zay likely is on this roster week 1 whether he is starting or not. But, I still feel we will add at least 2 more significant WR's this offseason and Zay is going to be in stiff competition. And for a guy who has yet to establish any part of his game as something he excels at, makes me concerned he can beat the other guys out to stay higher on depth chart.

DK over TJ. Especially since it sure seems like we are going to go hard at Jesse James in FA, and if we miss, would assume they will still sign someone. Our WR's on the other hand need SERIOUS help. Could always look to draft Irv or Fant in the 2nd or Josh Oliver in the 3rd. I would draft Oliver in the 3rd regardless if we sign a FA TE though, he's got Jimmy Graham in his prime part 2 written all over him.

Murray is going #1 overall. Foles is going to Jags. Jags will take Metcalf IMO.

Wow over reaction a bit here in this thread to say the least.

Yup, although in fairness they didn’t want Rosen in the first place, they wanted Allen. Beane made sure that didn’t happen and got us the right Josh. And if GunnerBills info that Rosen was not even on the Bills board is true, makes Beane look even that much better for seeing Rosen as not a franchise guy. AZ seems to now agree too.

Yeah I think there is 0% chance Rosen is a Raider

That may be true, but what he just said is pretty accurate. AZ is gonna take Murray. WAS is where Rosen is favored to land. Foles is reported everywhere as a near lock to Jax. And of course you have to leap frog Giants for Haskins, everyone knows that. BONUS: And if Carr gets traded (possibly to Giants) then someone will need to leap frog Raiders for Haskins and Jets come up big in a trade down.

Foster had 3 in his first 7 games on the same roster. Not saying he can’t be a decent receiver, but decent receivers are not good starters. And therefore, he can be upgraded upon and that’s what I predicted. All good Nothing wrong with seeing it different

Could you possibly make a less meaningful point? I mean who cares if he was “better” than the garbage we already cut, since when does that mean someone is good? I guess our whole offensive line is good enough too since they were better than the scrubs we cut in preseason lol I mean that statement couldn’t have less value in terms of evaluating someone. PS: I am pretty sure if anyone searches your post history you have very vocally used “garbage time” to discredit other players yourself...so I guess it’s a valid critique when it fits your narrative and not a valid one when it doesn’t. Got it.

Nice. Glad he will be here in 2019! That makes Zay seat even warmer

Metclf did terrible in agility drills, he’s fast one direction. Harry gets spearation, and proved his speed at the combine and the talk he wasn’t fast enough was false. His QB sucked in college and he’s constantly waiting on passes. Don’t get me wrong, still high on Metcalf, he has highest ceiling in draft. But Harry is by far the most complete WR and has lowest floor IMO with a very high ceiling. I mean he is faster than Antonio Brown, speed to get separation is not a concern now that the combine is over.

Oh, I thought McKenzie still needs to be resigned? Either way, he is more that gadget and ST guy, not part of the top 3 of the depth chart but certainly will and should be on the roster as the 5th or 6th WR.

We have 3 WR's actually on the roster, and of them Foster is our best WR right now as he easily passed up Zay already. The other WR is Duke. By default, you can say Zay is our 2nd best WR on the roster right now, but is he really? We don't actually know that because we haven't seen what Duke can do on an NFL field yet. People keep over looking Duke because he was in the CFL, but that was not because of talent. He was there over maturity issues which he seems all past now. He has dominated at every level of football he has played, so its more than reasonable to expect him to challenge Zay. So not only is Zay not our best WR on the roster right now, he could actually be the worst one if Duke comes on strong. And thats before we add more talent and we will add at least 2 or 3 more relevant WR's via draft, FA, or trade.

Just cant see anyone giving up more than the 15th pick in the draft for Rosen. He has appeal and upside still, but his value is hurt by a season of tape where he struggled and compounded further a team is so quick to give up on him after spending a top 10 pick on him a year ago. No one is going to look at a rookie on a bad roster and put all the blame on him for the struggles, thats unreasonable. So there has to be more to it than just the struggles on Sunday to make them be willing to give up on him. And given the fact that Rosen is a hard guy to like and his ability to be a leader was a serious concern going into the draft, I think its more than fair that its reasonable to assume that those issues are part of the reason they are willing to move on. That will hurt his value. He will still have good value, but I seriously doubt he nets anything higher than Washingtons 15th pick, and its quite possible he gets traded for just a 2nd round pick or lower too just depending on how strong the market is for him.

I don't think they are building this team the same way they did with Carolina though just because we had some ex panther players in here. KB was only traded for because of the playoff run, otherwise that trade NEVER happens. And mid season, there were no other WR's available for trade that had starter and WR1 status. The only player other than that they Brought in to be part of this team moving forward was Star. The rest were stop gap fill ins.

Let’s not forget 4 of those 7 came against the woeful Dolphins and that makes up 45% of his career TDS over 2 seasons in just those 2 games. In 30 career games Zay has zero 100 yard games. In 7 career games Foster has three 100 yard games. In 30 career games he has had less than 40 yards 22 times. A couple 2 TD games against a terrible Dolphins team doesn’t erase the other 28 games of mostly sub par play.