A Few Thoughts About The Game (and the season)

[The Dean]

It was 4th down. Their job was to get off the field.

 

I didn't think they would try a FG in that situation. I assumed they would have gone for it.

 

But, if that was the case, he should have had his guys ready to get the hell off the field after the play. Either way, the QB wasn't the leading force there, that I expect a guy like Trent to be.

[Flbillsfan#1]

There's a new excuse.

And unlike MOST of YOUR excuses for Trent most likely a VALID one

[The Senator]

I didn't think they would try a FG in that situation. I assumed they would have gone for it.

 

But, if that was the case, he should have had his guys ready to get the hell off the field after the play. Either way, the QB wasn't the leading force there, that I expect a guy like Trent to be.

After Trentie's last few outings, even Dakota Fanning is calling for The Chroise

[Rico]

He can't. He is on a defend Losman mode.

 

The Losman people are out in force. Many (not Dean) are secretly very happy that the Bills lost. It will take them years (unless he is out of football in a year or 2) to come to grips with the fact that he sucks. And yes, it is getting old.

 

Have the winds died down? I would hate to see his plane delayed.

[34-78-83]

Trent did make significant plays today both with his feet and completing passes for 1st downs. He wasn't perfect by any means but if you were waiting for even a 15-20 yard pass down the field, especially into that wind, you weren't going to see it from either QB. The running game ruled the day today. Do the same people also think he didn't play a very good game last week? I am beginning to wonder....

[MRW]

He can't. He is on a defend Losman mode.

 

The Losman people are out in force. Many (not Dean) are secretly very happy that the Bills lost. It will take them years (unless he is out of football in a year or 2) to come to grips with the fact that he sucks. And yes, it is getting old.

 

Have the winds died down? I would hate to see his plane delayed.

Holy crap Bill. You took a shot at those who liked Losman yourself in your opening post. Don't sit there and act like you're just trying to discuss Bills football when you never pass up an opportunity to needle people who disagreed with you about the QB position.

[The Dean]

Holy crap Bill. You took a shot at those who liked Losman yourself in your opening post. Don't sit there and act like you're just trying to discuss Bills football when you never pass up an opportunity to needle people who disagreed with you about the QB position.

 

 

Bill simply can not post without blasting JP...and then he makes erroneous remarks about my posts. Terrible Bill, really terrible.

[Flbillsfan#1]

Trent did make significant plays today both with his feet and completing passes for 1st downs. He wasn't perfect by any means but if you were waiting for even a 15-20 yard pass down the field, especially into that wind, you weren't going to see it from either QB. The running game ruled the day today. Do the same people also think he didn't play a very good game last week? I am beginning to wonder....

The Defense allowed 13 POINTS, 7 of which were a result of a Trent fumble. Trent had an opportunity to win the game and didn't get it done. He was responsible for 0 points for the Bills that is NOT GOOD. PERIOD.

[Solomon Grundy]

Edwards is so much better then JP, compare Trent in Denver and JP at home against the Jets. The Patsy's had more daring play calling. That and their receiver did not have as many drops.

Bingo Bongo! Get him a second WR and a pass CATCHING tight end and watch him elevate to elite status.

[The Dean]

Bingo Bongo! Get him a second WR and a pass CATCHING tight end and watch him elevate to elite status.

 

 

A good TE will do wonders for Trent. I think he still could be the right QB for this offense. But, he didn't play well today...that's all I'm really saying here.

[34-78-83]

The Defense allowed 13 POINTS, 7 of which were a result of a Trent fumble. Trent had an opportunity to win the game and didn't get it done. He was responsible for 0 points for the Bills that is NOT GOOD. PERIOD.

 

You're talking about Trent but you are evaluating the Bills offense as a whole. This is a common inconsistency in message board discussions. I am talking about Trent and no, I still feel Dockery cost that sack, FF. It's not like 4 seconds had run off and he was outside the pocket. He took the snap, took a very short drop, stepped forward and was hit from behind. Sure I suppose Big Ben wouldn't have fumbled there but most probably would have.

[The Senator]

Bingo Bongo! Get him a second WR and a pass CATCHING tight end and watch him elevate to elite status.

Exactly. Finally someone who 'gets it' - Trentie needs a second WR threat and a great pass-catching tight-end, just like JP had during his whole time here.

 

Plus a HC and OC who aren't brain-dead, but masters of the game - just like JP had.

[Flbillsfan#1]

You're talking about Trent but you are evaluating the Bills offense as a whole. This is a common inconsistency in message board discussions. I am talking about Trent and no, I still feel Dockery cost that sack, FF. It's not like 4 seconds had run off and he was outside the pocket. He took the snap, took a very short drop, stepped forward and was hit from behind. Sure I suppose Big Ben wouldn't have fumbled there but most probably would have.

The point is at the end of the 1st half, the Bills had an opportunity to put up at least 3 points. Trent did not LEAD his team to get back to the line of scrimmage as Jim Kelly would have done to get the clock stopped. He had 4 quarters to LEAD his team to POINTS & was unable to put up ANY. That is just not very good period.

[Ramius]

4 quick points that i saw from the stands today...

 

1. No one seems to mention that edwards was sacked twice on 4th down on the final drive (1 was wiped out by the penalty). But i thought he had pocket presence and didn't take stupid sacks?

 

2. This wont fly with the growing group of whitner-haters, but on the play he got "run over," he took a helmet straight to his injured shoulder and immediately crumpled from being hit there. He couldn't move his arm walking off the field. But i guess he should have wrapped up with a dead arm, huh?

 

3. I cannot believe that people are seriously saying that 0 offensive points is a good outing for the QB.

 

4. When new england* downed the punt on the 2 in the 4th quarter, the game went to commercial. During the commercial break, 10 offensive players were huddled up standing together in the endzone. !@#$ing Edwards stood on the sidelines with a coat on next to turk and dick until they rewound the play clock, then he ran out there top join his team.

[34-78-83]

The point is at the end of the 1st half, the Bills had an opportunity to put up at least 3 points. Trent did not LEAD his team to get back to the line of scrimmage as Jim Kelly would have done to get the clock stopped. He had 4 quarters to LEAD his team to POINTS & was unable to put up ANY. That is just not very good period.

 

Oooo k. I didn't know he was supposed to be Jimbo in his prime now? I was just saying he payed a pretty good game. Anyhow, The previous play never got in through the QB Mic due to our inept coaching at the time so Trent had to get the call from the sideline. His job after the play you mentioned was to get the F off the filed, NOT back to the line of scrimmage. The kicking teasm was coming on. This was worked on in practice as he and other players mentioned in theor interviews. So if Trent is a failure today for not running back and yanking Preston out of his scrum with 6 Pats players then so be it.

[The Senator]

3. I cannot believe that people are seriously saying that 0 offensive points is a good outing for the QB.

 

They aren't, generally, though there are one or two that insist that's just fine for Trent.

 

4. When new england* downed the punt on the 2 in the 4th quarter, the game went to commercial. During the commercial break, 10 offensive players were huddled up standing together in the endzone. !@#$ing Edwards stood on the sidelines with a coat on next to turk and dick until they rewound the play clock, then he ran out there top join his team.

 

That's 'cause he really really loves Dick and Turk, plus it was really really cold and windy.

[BB2004]

1) Dockery is a disgrace. He has his money and doesn't want to get his uniform dirty. Say hello to Mini Mike Williams. Like it or not, contract or not, we need another guard.

 

2) Given the circumstances, I thought that Trent played pretty well today.

 

3) How about that handoff on 3rd and 9 in the second quarter? Really, is there no limit to this idiocy? Jauron doesn't have the balls to be an NFL head coach. He is probably qualified to be a defensive backs assistant.

 

4) Allow me to extend an olive branch to those who blindly worshipped Losman. The fact is that he is finally gone, and it wouldn't be a bad thing to support the guy who is, and will continue to be the starting quarterback of your favorite football team. Besides, the kid is good.

 

5) Did we go up at all in terms of draft spots?

 

6) Oh.....My.....God.....You guys might think that you saw Donte Whitner getting knocked on his ass, but you are wrong. That was me, and symbolically, all of you getting your ba!!s kicked in by Dick Levy. That play represented exactly what posters have been screaming about for 2 years. This is the player that Dick Levy spurned extra picks for, and passed on very good players that they needed far more. What a freaking nightmare! I mean, this was Sammy Morris, not Earl Campbell. When message board posters know far more about building a team than the coach and GM, things are pretty f ing bleak. I guess we will simply suck as long as Ralph owns the team.

 

7) Is this s t fixed? How did they not call the out of bounds on jackson in the 1st quarter?

 

8) The comedy of errors at halftime was just classic Jauron football.

 

9) If Ralph fires Dick Levy, he will probably hire 82 year old Marv Levy. If so, expect more of the same.

 

10) I will never forget the effort put forth by Fred Jackson in this game.

 

11) Hopefully, Robert Royal has dropped his last pass as a Buffalo Bill.

 

12) In addition to having an outlet for my typical anxiety after Bills games, I have a ton of fun writing this stuff. Thanks to each and every one of you who was kind enough to indulge me this season, especially those who disagree with every word I type. At the very least, we are all in this disaster together. I hope that you new posters stay around for the draft. There are some people here who put lots of work into it, and this is a great, very important thing we have here on TSW.

 

13 GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Bill, you usual Sunday posts have been great and straight to the point. It is sad to see another season go by without our team in the playoffs, nine years. We will all have to continue to be patient.

[BillsVet]

A good TE will do wonders for Trent. I think he still could be the right QB for this offense. But, he didn't play well today...that's all I'm really saying here.

 

14-25 for 128 yards. 0 TD 0 INT. 4 rushes for 20 yards.

 

On a day when Cassell goes 6-8 for 78 yards and ran 3 times for 19 yards, you're criticizing Edwards.

 

Surely Cassell out-played Trent by quite a bit with that stat line. The wind you didn't experience had nothing to do with the offensive gameplanning.

 

Goodness gracious, I was there to see a 4th and 1 with no backs. I saw the 3rd and 9 run which didn't quite get the first. You yourself have pointed to the lack of coaching for a 2nd year QB with less than a season and a half worth of starts in the NFL. Doesn't playcalling influence the success or failure of any QB, especially one with about 20 NFL starts?

 

EDIT: Considering DJ teams are never offensively strong, and TS hasn't OC'd a team ever, shouldn't their record also enter into the consideration.

 

Criticize the areas that deserve it: The HC and OC who have been outcoached by several guys, including Sparano (2x), Mangini, Belichick (2x), Whisenhunt, Crennel, and Singletary.

 

Go ahead and take issue with a QB who has about 1/10 the amount of games played as his HC has served in that function. Or the OC who's been in the league for 20+ years. Blame it on TE and ignore those obvious facts.

[timba]

Yeah our Defense only gave up 13 points, but I'd say that's mostly the weather as opposed to the stout play of our D. We just had bad plays occur and the worst times on offense... the entire end of the 2nd quarter... the fumble... not covering Wes Welker on 4th and 5... robert royal dropping passes...

 

That being said helluva game to Fred Jackson! It'd be pretty awesome to see an offense that implemented both Jackson and Lynch on the field at the same time. However if this were to be the case I'd like to see Lynch improve his pass blocking and catching (both out of the backfield and from slot).

[The Dean]

Go ahead and take issue with a QB who has about 1/10 the amount of games played as his HC has served in that function. Or the OC who's been in the league for 20+ years. Blame it on TE and ignore those obvious facts.

 

 

You will see, if you read my posts, that I DON'T blame it all on Trent. I simply said, he didn't have a good game. And he didn't. If he had a good game, the Bills wouldn't have had ZERO points. Pretty simple, really. He didn't play as good as Cassal (his passes weren't as precise as Cassal's, and he threw to Royal on too many occasions). He took sacks, made a bad scramble/running decision, fumbled the ball on a sack.

 

Given the weather conditions, Cassal had a "pretty good" game. Completed 6 of 8 (average gain of 8.1 yards per pass play, compared to the Bills' average of 4.3), and both of his incomplete passes were drops.

 

If Zero points is good enough for you, on a day when your backup RB runs for over 130 yards (the Bills had averaged 4.6 yards per rushing play, compared to the Pats* average of 3.6) and your defense allows 13 points...then fine. My standards are simply higher than yours, I guess.

 

I'm not saying Edwards lost the game. I'm saying he did NOT play well.

[Dawgg]

6) Oh.....My.....God.....You guys might think that you saw Donte Whitner getting knocked on his ass, but you are wrong. That was me, and symbolically, all of you getting your ba!!s kicked in by Dick Levy. That play represented exactly what posters have been screaming about for 2 years. This is the player that Dick Levy spurned extra picks for, and passed on very good players that they needed far more. What a freaking nightmare! I mean, this was Sammy Morris, not Earl Campbell. When message board posters know far more about building a team than the coach and GM, things are pretty f ing bleak. I guess we will simply suck as long as Ralph owns the team.

 

Bill From NYC: Whitner is not good ---> Whitner is the Man ---> Whitner is not good ----> Whitner is the Man ---> Whitner is not good

[Bill from NYC]

I didn't think they would try a FG in that situation. I assumed they would have gone for it.

 

But, if that was the case, he should have had his guys ready to get the hell off the field after the play. Either way, the QB wasn't the leading force there, that I expect a guy like Trent to be.

 

Why don't you read this again Brian. I mean, the coach calls 2 plays, Edwards announces said plays in the huddle, and you expect him to run upfield in case an idiot like Duke Preston decides to engage a Patriot in a shoving match as the final seconds are ticking away? Trent, or any other quarterback is supposed to be ready for this level of idiocy? Trent is at fault? If a person blamed JP for this kind of s t I would probably have to fly down there and take you to a doctor for blood pressure meds.

 

No, the problem wasn't Trent. The blame lies with Ralph for hiring Marv Levy and his clone, Dick Jauron. We can argue all day in terms of Trent vs. Losman and solve nothing. Maybe the only difference is that we don't yet know if Trent will be good. I think that he has every chance to be very good because he is smart, and he has nice touch on his throws. JP is the opposite, a spent shell.

 

As for the fumble.....no way was that the fault of Trent. It was blind side pressure, but it came from inside. Even the announcers blamed Dockery. You know Dockery.......the guy who Marv gave Hutchinson money to so he could draft defensive backs instead of blockers and DL.

 

Maybe now that JP is gone (did the winds let up), the real problems with this team will become clear. It really is pretty simple imo. We will go nowhere but down the toilet with Little Dick Levy and his bevy of defensive backs. That even kinda sounds like a bad punk rock band more than a football team.

[/dev/null]

Bill From NYC: Whitner is not good ---> Whitner is the Man ---> Whitner is not good ----> Whitner is the Man ---> Whitner is not good

We wants it, we needs it. Must have the precious. They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false!

[Ramius]

As for the fumble.....no way was that the fault of Trent. It was blind side pressure, but it came from inside.

 

 

oh the hypocrisy

[Gordio]

Perfect post, the only problem I see is re-signing Jackson. He's probably going to get some good offers, and since we don't seem to use him as much as we should, I doubt he wants to be back. (even if we payed him what he's worth.)

 

 

He is a restricted free agent. If the bills offer him a high tender offer, we will at least get a good draft pick out of it.

[Sisyphean Bills]

:lol:

 

oh the hypocrisy

Losman was hit 1.8 seconds after the snap, but Trent was hit only 1.8 seconds after the snap. The difference is obvious, no?

[BillsVet]

He is a restricted free agent. If the bills offer him a high tender offer, we will at least get a good draft pick out of it.

 

Only one player came to the tunnel side EZ to greet Bills fans who remained. I sit in 123, and FJ came by to give high fives. He's a class act IMHO.

[Huuuge Bills]

 

oh the hypocrisy

 

JP was on a rollout and was specifically told to throw the ball away if nothing was there. He didn't, he fumbled, and we lost.

 

Trent wasn't even done dropping back (5 step drop) when he was hit on the blind side by Green. Dockery completely whiffed, and Green swiped at the ball before attempting to tackle Trent. That play isn't on your QB.

 

That's like blaming a RB for losing yards on a run when noone blocks the DT. It just doesn't make any sense.

[bizell]

JP was on a rollout and was specifically told to throw the ball away if nothing was there. He didn't, he fumbled, and we lost.

 

Trent wasn't even done dropping back (5 step drop) when he was hit on the blind side by Green. Dockery completely whiffed, and Green swiped at the ball before attempting to tackle Trent. That play isn't on your QB.

 

That's like blaming a RB for losing yards on a run when noone blocks the DT. It just doesn't make any sense.

 

or how about blaming the QB for a botched handoff to the RB when a DT was unblocked and blasted the RB a millisecond after the ball exchange? (see: arizona game)

[thebug]

Losman was hit 1.8 seconds after the snap, but Trent was hit only 1.8 seconds after the snap. The difference is obvious, no?

 

 

Maybe you should take another look LINK

[34-78-83]

 

oh the hypocrisy

 

Personal JP vs. Trent battle aside, the statement is true, and would have been true if Billy Joe Hobert were playing QB.

[cåblelady]

Losman was hit 1.8 seconds after the snap, but Trent was hit only 1.8 seconds after the snap. The difference is obvious, no?

I like you. I really do.

[Gordio]

Where? Show me one place in this thread where I was defending Losman, Bill.

 

I simply pointed out your hypocrisy, when you defended Trent's performance today. In similar situations in the past, you have blasted JP for this kind of performance. Zero points, Bill. That's a pretty good QB performance for you....if it is Trent.

 

Now, if you actually read my posts, I said that I think Trent still has a chance to be good...he just isn't good yet, and he didn't play well today. [but, unlike you with JP, I haven't thrown Trent under the bus.]

 

Now, in this wind, nobody can expect Trent to have a big game passing, and I am no exception. I don't think he was bad because he didn't throw for 200+ yards. But, what he didn't do is make any significant plays, with his arm or his legs or his head. While Cassel controlled the games, made no mistakes and only threw TWO incomplete passes (he threw BULLETS in the wind), Edwards coughed up the ball for a horribly untimely fumble (I know JP can't feel pressure, I thought Trent was supposed to excel at it), continued to throw to Royal (and poorly, at that), and didn't seem to check out of pass plays (I thought Trent was smart and could audible from the LOS). In the 4th quarter, on 4th and 10, Trent scrambled for ONE yard. What would you say if JP made that boneheaded of a play, and didn't bother to get rid of the ball...on 4th down? Doesn't matter who the QB is Bill, it's a BAD play.

 

Worse than all that, how could he allow his team to not run a play to stop the clock at the end of the first half? Bad call? Maybe. But, Trent knows the situation in the huddle. Why weren't the Bills prepared to line up immediately after the end of the play? Where is the on-field leadership he is supposed to have? That was simply inexcusable.

 

Look, the playcalling was questionable, but the Bills held NE* to 13 points (7 of them partially due to Edwards fumble). Jackson ran for 136 yards. So, I ask you one question, Bill:

 

What did Edwards do to help win this game? What makes this level of play "pretty good"?

 

Now, here's the difference between me and you (and some others here). I think Trent had a bad game, but I don't necessarily think he sucks, and I'm not about to run him down every chance I get and in every thread I post in.

 

 

Prettysolid post deano, but you can not possibly blame that fumble on edwards. I did not know a guard could get beat that bad on the inside. Dockery should be ashamed of himself.

 

One other thing I feel alot of people that openly route against Edwards better start warming up to this idea. If he does not pan out as the franchise qb, I believe the bills will continue to suck for the next 3-4 years minimum. It is vital for the bills winning that he takes that next step next year & improves his game. I have confidence that he will. I look at alot of the 2nd year qbs in this league & he is way ahead of the curve. I could be wrong. I thought Losman was the long term answer after the 06 season. For bills fans I hope I am right about Edwards, because the bills have no chance at winning next year if Edwards does not improve on his play. I think the kid is going to be a good one.

[Gordio]

Losman was hit 1.8 seconds after the snap, but Trent was hit only 1.8 seconds after the snap. The difference is obvious, no?

 

 

No the difference is game situations. Losman's 1st priority in the situation he was in was to protect the ball with a 3 point lead. He failed to do it. Edwards 1st priority since the game was still undecided was to make a play. Dockery wiffed on the block & the rest they say is history.

[MRW]

Prettysolid post deano, but you can not possibly blame that fumble on edwards. I did not know a guard could get beat that bad on the inside. Dockery should be ashamed of himself.

 

One other thing I feel alot of people that openly route against Edwards better start warming up to this idea. If he does not pan out as the franchise qb, I believe the bills will continue to suck for the next 3-4 years minimum. It is vital for the bills winning that he takes that next step next year & improves his game. I have confidence that he will. I look at alot of the 2nd year qbs in this league & he is way ahead of the curve. I could be wrong. I thought Losman was the long term answer after the 06 season. For bills fans I hope I am right about Edwards, because the bills have no chance at winning next year if Edwards does not improve on his play. I think the kid is going to be a good one.

I agree with you that the best hope for the Bills is for Edwards to pan out. I would also say that it does not make sense for the team to invest a lot of additional resources (high draft picks, huge FA signing) at the QB position at the moment. But it would be absolutely foolish for the team not to pick up a Griese/Leftwich-caliber veteran if one is available at a reasonable price. There are far too many question marks with Edwards for me to feel comfortable going into '09 with him as the only possible option at QB.

[The Big Cat]

No the difference is game situations. Losman's 1st priority in the situation he was in was to protect the ball with a 3 point lead. He failed to do it. Edwards 1st priority since the game was still undecided was to make a play. Dockery wiffed on the block & the rest they say is history.

 

The 1.8 seconds claim is pure, unbridled horse sh t.

[Gordio]

The 1.8 seconds claim is pure, unbridled horse sh t.

 

 

I really do not take anything that Sisyphean Bills posts seriously. His man crush towards Losman really clouds his football sense.

[Adam]

i think the biggest roster issues for our team are

 

1. play maker on O. we need someone besides evans. i like winslow jr, but we need a good big body stud play maker.

2. pass rush. we need at least one more player (and aaron to come back healthy, if he can) in there who can get after the passer. peppers would look good in blue, lets throw the bank at him.

3. line backers. i really think our linebackers are about the weakest unit on the team. ellison should have never seen the pitch with crow playing (god that sucked), mitchel is ok, and poz isn't a tenth of the player his ball washers make him out to be.

 

i think #3 relates to my next point strongly: we have done damage to our team drafting players for special teams. parrish, mclovin, mcgee (although the last 2 have other abilities and i think mclovin might be very good soon) are all on our team in large part due to special teams play. our safties, linemen, and other LBs are all good or very good special teams guys as well, but the cost is our depth is crap and we are too small up front. the bottom line size of our front seven is lacking, and i think that's in part because we have so many of them in special teams.

Colin- I strongly disagree- we need a minimum of four more defensive linemen, not just one. Our WR's corps isn't strong now, but Hardy, Johnson and Fine all need time- we need 3-4 new starting OL's to go along with Peters.

[The Senator]

Colin- I strongly disagree- we need a minimum of four more defensive linemen, not just one. Our WR's corps isn't strong now, but Hardy, Johnson and Fine all need time- we need 3-4 new starting OL's to go along with Peters.

Doubt we'll see Peters play another down in a Bills uniform.

[Adam]

Doubt we'll see Peters play another down in a Bills uniform.

I also doubt we will see them play another playoff down